Combine a lifetime of reading books like Hatchet and My Side of the Mountain, online survival shows and lots of camping and I get to thinking about what I would do to survive in the BWCA. We almost always trip late fall, so the scenario I imagine is that like Gilligan, you plan for a 3-hour (or 4-day) tour and end up having to spend the winter out there.

Let me say that this is entirely theoretical. Once you flip from camping to survival mode, all sorts of BWCA rules that I respect to a T are thrown out the window. I don't endorse anyone trying this, but I love to think about it.

Some questions I ask myself are:
1. What would you eat? And how would you preserve it from rotting and being eaten by wildlife? Obviously fishing transitions from hobby to lifeline, but what else would you eat? There isn't a ton of game that is accessible, but I've been thinking beaver would be one animal you could reasonably catch and eat. Any plants that are edible that would provide enough nutrition to make it worth foraging? Vitamin C is easy to come by via pine needles, but I'm not sure what else you'd need (other than fish) to have a reasonably balanced diet.

2. How would you you stay warm? We bring 'regular' tents and tarps and ~10 degree sleeping bags, but this won't cut it through the winter. I think the priority would be a shelter with a fire inside it that holds heat and blocks the wind. There aren't many caves in the BWCA, but there are a few. Assuming you have to start from scratch, I'd think building a wooden shelter with thick, insulated walls would be your best bet. I'd think you could find a spot where two big rocks come together to act as fireproof walls for your fireplace inside the shelter.

3. I generally imagine a scenario where I just have the gear we brought on a specific trip, but I also think about what gear do we own that you reasonably could have brought with you that you'd be sure to have or wish you had? Things like bringing in the cast iron pan instead of some lightweight thing. Or bringing an ax instead of just batoning wood with a knife. Another question I think about is what is the one thing you wouldn't normally take that you'd bring along. Ax? 12-guage? Lightweight stove?

4. What would your ideal location be? I'd think something far enough from a lake, up a valley that would protect you from the N and NW wind, but near a stream of fast moving water. Ideally with easy access to multiple fishing options on small and large water.

I've had ideas rattling around in my head about this for a year and a half, so I'm curious if anyone else thinks about this.

I probably would not make it over the winter. I would try to get to an exit and escape from there hopefully by some help from a passerby. If I could not paddle out, I would try to survive long enough to walk out after the lakes froze over.

Chuckles: "Combine a lifetime of reading books like Hatchet and My Side of the Mountain, online survival shows and lots of camping and I get to thinking about what I would do to survive in the BWCA. We almost always trip late fall, so the scenario I imagine is that like Gilligan, you plan for a 3-hour (or 4-day) tour and end up having to spend the winter out there.

Let me say that this is entirely theoretical. Once you flip from camping to survival mode, all sorts of BWCA rules that I respect to a T are thrown out the window. I don't endorse anyone trying this, but I love to think about it.

Some questions I ask myself are:
1. What would you eat? And how would you preserve it from rotting and being eaten by wildlife? Obviously fishing transitions from hobby to lifeline, but what else would you eat? There isn't a ton of game that is accessible, but I've been thinking beaver would be one animal you could reasonably catch and eat. Any plants that are edible that would provide enough nutrition to make it worth foraging? Vitamin C is easy to come by via pine needles, but I'm not sure what else you'd need (other than fish) to have a reasonably balanced diet.

2. How would you you stay warm? We bring 'regular' tents and tarps and ~10 degree sleeping bags, but this won't cut it through the winter. I think the priority would be a shelter with a fire inside it that holds heat and blocks the wind. There aren't many caves in the BWCA, but there are a few. Assuming you have to start from scratch, I'd think building a wooden shelter with thick, insulated walls would be your best bet. I'd think you could find a spot where two big rocks come together to act as fireproof walls for your fireplace inside the shelter.

3. I generally imagine a scenario where I just have the gear we brought on a specific trip, but I also think about what gear do we own that you reasonably could have brought with you that you'd be sure to have or wish you had? Things like bringing in the cast iron pan instead of some lightweight thing. Or bringing an ax instead of just batoning wood with a knife. Another question I think about is what is the one thing you wouldn't normally take that you'd bring along. Ax? 12-guage? Lightweight stove?

4. What would your ideal location be? I'd think something far enough from a lake, up a valley that would protect you from the N and NW wind, but near a stream of fast moving water. Ideally with easy access to multiple fishing options on small and large water.
I've had ideas rattling around in my head about this for a year and a half, so I'm curious if anyone else thinks about this.
"

Sounds like a scenario from ALONE on the History channel! Love watching that. Learned a few things.

Winter is here and the mind wanders. What would I do questions are fun, but unlikely. The time and effort to build a secure camp and food supply would seem better spent walking out. And having done some of this thinking my survival kit includes map and compass...and I carry a Garmin in reach.
These questions are fun rabbit holes for a cold winter day/night/next day...

I think about these scenarios all the time. I like reading survival skills books, too.

One of the biggest challenges for most people would be getting enough food. At least in certain areas. I mean, you have fish. But most people aren’t adept at capturing and finding food anymore.

My twin brother and I have a running joke that we eat Pine needles to prevent “the scurvy” (cue bad pirate accent). (Guess you have to be there, but trust me we’re hilarious ).

I’ve read a lot about keeping warm in an emergency scenario. I think I could do it for a short period to survive. I think the winter for any extended time would kill me off though.

I know in the BW this wouldn’t be a problem, but I think a lot about how would you get enough water in certain areas. I’ve read a lot about collecting dew water. I tried it once with plastic bags. It’s a lot of work.

I used to be a lot more confident. When I was younger, I think I could’ve survived for quite a while. Now, I might have to put myself on a ice float and push off the shore. Lol

Yeah, these are fun "what if" things to think about.

Gathering food is the all consuming (pun) activity. The more ways you know how to do this, the easier survival will be. That means learning about what plants are edible, because they will be the most consistent source of food, depending on the season of course.
In the BWCA and the Canadian shield, Caribou Moss is edible and very abundant and around the whole year. Tasty, no, but edible. Can you survive purely on that? No. Might get some mushrooms still in the fall, but you better know the difference with them.
Because you are stuck there starting in the fall, plants are going to be limited. Got some parachute cord? Know some knots? Time to make a gill net. Anytime you can set something that is doing the work of getting food without you having to constantly watch it is a key advantage. Same for rabbit snares.

bwcadan: "I probably would not make it over the winter. I would try to get to an exit and escape from there hopefully by some help from a passerby. If I could not paddle out, I would try to survive long enough to walk out after the lakes froze over."

I remember an exercise in high school where you had to choose the top item from a list of possible things to survive in a raft. The 'right' answer was a signal mirror as getting rescued raises your chances of survival much more than having food or water.

100% agreed your best survival tactic would be to get help or to civilization, but that isn't what this thought experiment is about, for me. My idea is what would you do if you had to survive until ice out.

I'm like a lot of you, I've played the scenario out many times in my head. I think you need to set the parameters first. Are we talking about setting out to survive long term or attempting to be rescued? My plan would change depending on the scenario.

Honestly if any of us were stranded without food and had to survive the winter most of wouldn't make it and if we did we'd be in rough shape. Look at the guy who won the season of Alone in a northern winter. He shot a moose so had plenty of food and yet he was still withering away because he had no fat intake. Without a summer to prep and store foods like fish that have good fat content you'd be in rough shape. Having to do it all alone is even harder. You have so much work to do but no one to share the load.

Your best bet would be to attempt fishing but that will be a challenge. Thankfully in the winter if you are able to stockpile food spoilage is no concern since you're living in a freezer.

Assuming you can get enough food which is doubtful shelter is the next concern. Although I think most of us are clever enough to build a suitable shelter assuming reasonable tools on hand, an ax would be very helpful. The key to the shelter would be warmth so you'd need to design a safe way to have a fire.

If everything goes well you may survive however I very much doubt anyone would thrive. It would be a very long challenging experience that would take a physical toll on all of us.

Thought this through for decades

How long can a human survive on water and protein?

Assuming you can keep a fire going and make a suitable shelter and not freeze.

And assuming you have enough on you to keep supplied with fish and maybe the occasional rabbit or something.

And those are big assumptions.

Can you survive 4 or 5 months on just the same protein and water? I don’t know the answer, but my guess is it would be a close call. Like someone already said, health wise you won’t be thriving. You’re probably one cold or small injury away from death after a month or two due to your body’s inability to heal and cope with it all.

And you would certainly go insane and have some serious mental issues by the end. I’d probably name and befriend my biolite cook stove if I had to pick a piece of gear to fill the Wilson role.

It seems the indigenous peoples did just fine. :)

JackpineJim: "It seems the indigenous peoples did just fine. :) "

Yes, but they were much wiser than us. : )

Signal fire...bigger the better....
Almost all of us would freeze to death during the long winter up there....

I am trying to find this guy's name, but it has escaped me.

I found this guy fascinating because he tried to live the way people lived before modern times. It sounds like he was wildly successful. However, he really wanted to do it with NO outside cheats. He lived this amazing lifestyle for decades. Then, one day, he told his friends his lifelong passion was impossible. That modern man could no longer live that way successfully. He told friends he was going to travel the world but ended up killing himself instead of changing goals (sadly).

I love reading about tribal life and biographies of the leaders of the tribes. Interesting skills and wisdom, much of it lost.

Hey Chuckles... have you ever considered a few days winter camping in the BWCA?? It would help you define some of the priorities needed for survival in cold conditions.

Yes, have thought about and practiced for this.

I'm old, stove up, cranky and spend time on the water near shore in the PNW, coastal Alaska and remote] bush Canada. I ALWAYS carry an ACR ResQlink. Prices from $300 to $400 or so depending on model. Others prefer the Garmin In Reach.

Some random thoughts.
Calories, esp calories from fat are the secret sauce to long term survival.
Protein and many carbs give about 4 calories per gram while high fat runs about 9 calories per gram. National Outdoor Leadership School ( Wyoming) used to suggest adding 1/4 stick of margarine to cooking pots. Now they suggest adding peanut butter throughout the day.

Couple more random observations:
Fish- freshwater fish usually are low in fat. If you were going to plan on being stranded more than a few weeks, then a fish diet will likely need some additional fat to keep you warm.

Good winter read ; "Into to the Wild" by Jon Krakauer re: Chris McCandless who starved while spending a winter in an old bus in Alaska circa 1992. A sad journal about a young man who was totally unprepared and over his head. He actually shot a moose, let the meat spoil as he had no knowledge or method to preserve it. Possibly he ingested into toxic plants as well.

Considerations:
Melting snow for drinking water takes a huge amount of fuel. Getting water when there's 30-36 inches of ice is a chore. In the mountains springs may flow all year but if there's 7 feet of snow retrieving the water will be difficult.

Snow caves and quinzees are worth learning about. Tents, a good one can save yr life. A cheap one, maybe not so much.

There's so much to learn: Survival takes a big bag of tricks. A person surviving in a cold dry environment of the Inter Mountain West needs to learn different techniques versus a person in the warmer rain drenched Pacific North West versus a high latitude Arctic dweller.

I led overnight cross country ski trips of early teens in Wyoming mountains for some years. (No more, too old) Young teens consume huge quantities of food esp. just before bedtime. At least with kids you have many hands to collect firewood. Most are teachable. Some learn the hard way. Our first lesson was how to build a fire in the snow and keep it going. We repeatedly practiced that in town before going into the back country.

Ditto what was posted above about experimenting with winter survival skills first.
Talking to people who've been there, done that makes for a shorter learning curve. Wisdom of the elders and all that. We could do a better job of that IMO in society.

Though my hunch is this post is preaching to the choir. People reading BWCA are pretty heads up and more self sufficient.

JackpineJim: "It seems the indigenous peoples did just fine. :) "

They had alot going for them that we wouldn't if we were in a survival situation. They lived and worked in groups to share the workload. They worked all year long to prepare for the winter months, and they traveled to seasonal locations that gave them better access to resources.

I just watched Alone, seasons 6&7, for the first time a couple months ago. They introduced a term to me I had not heard before - “rabbit starvation”. As they explained it (and I don’t know how much was science vs theatrics), a person could starve to death just eating rabbit because it is rather lean meat and you are not getting enough fat. While many of us work to avoid fat in the modern world, dietary fat is critical to the body to help absorb certain vitamins, for cell wall integrity, and for organ function. After warmth, getting enough fat would be critical especially since in this scenario you are too late to collect and process wild rice or blueberries, the dominant carbs available in the region. If you could find and, uhm, process a bear in its den you would be golden. I’ve heard bear grease is wonderful stuff. Rabbits, deer, walleye and northern are all pretty lean meats I believe. Lakers are higher in fat so I hope you brought an axe to chop the ice and some white tube jigs!

Seems to me I was reading about some guy, who wrote a book on surviving up north on a plant based diet. Apparently when he was done writing book, he tried to apply what he wrote, and live for an extended period of time that way, and it didn't work. As I recall, he couldn't get enough glucose.

I know this is all pretty vague. Does that sound about right?

I think you'd have to stay near a stream, or at least where there is current in the lake. Lake ice up there must get to be 40" thick.

I would build my shelter as much into the ground as possible. Build it into a hillside. Unfortunately there isn't a ton of dirt up there, it's so much rock.

You're going to have to spend a fair amount of time exposed to the elements. There are extended periods of time where it's -30 degrees. I don't know that you would bring the right boots, and winter clothing on a september/october trip, to survive in January. I'm almost certain I would die. Maybe a person could follow a wolf pack around for a while, and wait for them to kill a moose. Is that possible??

Can you create warm enough foot wear from a beaver? The better question is, can I? I doubt it. Just trying to thread a beaver pelt would be tough.

It all sounds like a ton of work and a lot of expended energy. I'm not sure i could produce enough calorie intake to survive. I've been on upper red lake when it's -30, with 40 below wind chill, and I'm prepared for it, and wouldn't want to spend 4 days outside in that, much less a whole winter.

Even about the Twin Cities, I often ask myself, who settled here? I can only imagine how beautiful the twin cities must have been, especially the convergence of the mississippi and the St. Croix etc. I get coming here in the summer and thinking, "this is heaven"... First winter, I'd be like "F this S, I'm out of here".

I get it when people have heated homes, with heated attached Garages, and heated cars, and go to a heated office, and shop in a heated grocery store, but I recall one winter back in the early 80's, in the Twin Cities, where the high was below zero for something like 2 or 3 strt weeks. 18 days if i recall correctly. Who lives outdoors in that? And that's the twin cities, which is relatively mild compared to the canadian border, and much shorter winters in duration. I have great respect for the warriors that tackled that in the 1800's.

As one who solo winter camps up there, I often think during the deafening silence that only occurs during the dead of winter........how do the animals survive this bleak yet beautiful landscape? What a tough existence. Even with thousands of years of evolution. The bears are the smart ones up here.

I think a more accurate question to ask yourself is not how would you survive, but how long before your demise?

Just finished watching season four of Alone where the participants try to survive on Vancouver Island with 10 items, plus clothing. The Winners, both healthly men, lasted 75 days and endured a lot of suffering. They lost 25% of their body weight in that time.

Winter survival for more than a few nights would kill me.

Winter is the pinch season up here. It killed countless native people back in the day, kills wildlife today, and will almost certainly kill you.

The number one problem in the boreal forest is getting enough daily calories (4000-5000 per day) to make it through the winter. Vitamin C too, but that is easier to obtain.

Considering what it takes, it's downright amazing homo sapiens survived and thrived to be.

RunningFox: "Just finished watching season four of Alone where the participants try to survive on Vancouver Island with 10 items, plus clothing. The Winners, both healthly men, lasted 75 days and endured a lot of suffering. They lost 25% of their body weight in that time.


Winter survival for more than a few nights would kill me. "

I lost interest in Alone because it quickly was revealed to be less of a survival *skill* competition and more of a competition of seeing who would starve the slowest. The winningest strategy really is to just start as a fat guy with the most calories to burn to try to out-last the skinnier folk.

mschi772: "

RunningFox: "Just finished watching season four of Alone where the participants try to survive on Vancouver Island with 10 items, plus clothing. The Winners, both healthly men, lasted 75 days and endured a lot of suffering. They lost 25% of their body weight in that time.



Winter survival for more than a few nights would kill me. "

I lost interest in Alone because it quickly was revealed to be less of a survival *skill* competition and more of a competition of seeing who would starve the slowest. The winningest strategy really is to just start as a fat guy with the most calories to burn to try to out-last the skinnier folk."

I agree wholeheartedly. Two seasons were more than enough.

There are lakes, almost never fished, teaming with trout.
Beaver galore, and I know how to trap them.
Water shield galore, completely edible, even the slime on their stems.
Cattail tubers...edible.
Lilly pad tubers...edible.
Water Shield tubers....edible.
Much more, but right there, you have veggies, starches, and proteins.

The ranger (actually customs guy) thought it strange, that I declared such little food (back then you payed a duty, on food)

At the age of 25, I tried to do it. Came back out of Quetico, I thought for just a few days.... for a friends 30th surprise birthday party in Ely. Was missing my girlfriend so much, that I didn't go back in... Damned women ;)

I too like the survivalist shows. I like to consider myself a bit of an outdoors-man and have considered this scenario a lot. Spring, Summer, and Fall I think I would be good to go. Winter I believe would kill me. I can't see a viable plan to survive that.

Now if i knew that I was going up there in the summer and was planning to last until spring, I might have a chance.

Chuckles: "

bwcadan: "I probably would not make it over the winter. I would try to get to an exit and escape from there hopefully by some help from a passerby. If I could not paddle out, I would try to survive long enough to walk out after the lakes froze over."

I remember an exercise in high school where you had to choose the top item from a list of possible things to survive in a raft. The 'right' answer was a signal mirror as getting rescued raises your chances of survival much more than having food or water.


100% agreed your best survival tactic would be to get help or to civilization, but that isn't what this thought experiment is about, for me. My idea is what would you do if you had to survive until ice out. "

We did that exercise in my Infantry Officer Basic Course schooling in the late 80s. Talk about something that can get a bunch of young lieutenants arguing...

Mike

Portage99: "I am trying to find this guy's name, but it has escaped me.


I found this guy fascinating because he tried to live the way people lived before modern times. It sounds like he was wildly successful. However, he really wanted to do it with NO outside cheats. He lived this amazing lifestyle for decades. Then, one day, he told his friends his lifelong passion was impossible. That modern man could no longer live that way successfully. He told friends he was going to travel the world but ended up killing himself instead of changing goals (sadly).


I love reading about tribal life and biographies of the leaders of the tribes. Interesting skills and wisdom, much of it lost. "

This particular man is mentioned in the book 'Into The Wild'. I forget his name as well. But I was very fascinated for a time with this man. I do recall he was from a very prominent family and kept a 4.0 at Princeton (but refused to graduate and earn an official degree). I can't even fathom how that guy was able to maintain that type of lifestyle. On top of surviving like that in Alaska, he also worked out strenuously every day.

The seasons of the show alone where they are in the Canadian wilderness are about as close to BWCA life as you can get. It’s the same topography and very close to the same plant and wildlife that exist in the boundary waters, just further north. There may be more wolverines and definitely more musk ox up there. And the people on the show struggle. if you notice they almost never see any deer sign or tracks. I think in general with the wolf population in the bwca, hunting deer is probably harder than it is in the relatively open farmland we are all used to in MN. They no doubt stick to denser woods off from the open areas.
I know some people have success fishing in the boundary waters but I would never rely on fish for even a single day’s meal on a week long trip. So in general, food would be a huge issue that would color every other aspect. Yes, you could build a shelter, yes, you could heat it, but all of those things burn calories that need to be replaced. You absolutely would starve if you just ate rodents and birds.

I could survive the coldest BWCA winter if I had Ada Blackjack with me.

The Mighty Ada

Great thread for a cold winter day! I thought about what I would have with me on a mid-Oct. camping trip and nothing else. Three season tent, 8x10 tarp, ridge rest pad and 1/2 pad and my 20 degree bag and small pillow. Saw and hatchet ( only take hatchet in cool months) cooking pot and nesting fry pan, food for planned days, lighters and matches and the other small stuff you always take with you.( head lamp, leatherman, first aid etc.)

I.M GOING TO DIE! just not fast. I figure I would last about 2-3 months. I have a fair amount of outdoor skills and have a decent equipment load but nothing to make it well into the really cold months. Starvation and freezing are in a race with illness and accident.

Food first: muskrat, beaver, squirrel , rabbits, crayfish and fish are about all I can come up with for protean. How you catch them is another matter ( I have been skunked many times using boat, rod /reel ,locator etc) -- a little luck and ingenuity may get you a few if there are any around. ( I have snared rabbits in the past but never when my life depended on it) Edible plants like cat tails, sumac, lilies, inner tree bark are possible but never having tried to gather anything but cattails ( tastes like crap) I have no idea how hard it would be especially after ice forms.

Shelter and clothing: With a tent and tarp I would be ok till it got really cold then a shelter with inside fire would be necessary. I think I could cobble something together but nothing good enough to last an entire winter. Clothing would be ok till the snow came and maybe even later if I could trap some fur. Boots and gloves would be the main concern, primitive snow shoes I can do and rough tanning a hide I can do.

Small stuff: What do you do if the saw blade breaks or when the batteries and spares for your headlamp run out? Loose your glasses? fall through the ice? Lighters dry up? ( I tried several times to make fire with a bow drill- smoke and muscle cramps were all I got but had better luck with the magnify lens on my compass) WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE WHISKEY AND TP RUN OUT?

I have to conclude that I wouldn't make it but like to think I would go down swinging.

Simply, WOW!!! That is incredible! Ha, I would want Ada too!!!

But in response to the general post, food would be the deciding factor on living or dying in the BWCA. And there is a huge difference in "living" or just getting by.

DRob1992: "

Portage99: "I am trying to find this guy's name, but it has escaped me.



I found this guy fascinating because he tried to live the way people lived before modern times. It sounds like he was wildly successful. However, he really wanted to do it with NO outside cheats. He lived this amazing lifestyle for decades. Then, one day, he told his friends his lifelong passion was impossible. That modern man could no longer live that way successfully. He told friends he was going to travel the world but ended up killing himself instead of changing goals (sadly).



I love reading about tribal life and biographies of the leaders of the tribes. Interesting skills and wisdom, much of it lost. "

This particular man is mentioned in the book 'Into The Wild'. I forget his name as well. But I was very fascinated for a time with this man. I do recall he was from a very prominent family and kept a 4.0 at Princeton (but refused to graduate and earn an official degree). I can't even fathom how that guy was able to maintain that type of lifestyle. On top of surviving like that in Alaska, he also worked out strenuously every day. "

I’m glad someone knows what I’m talking about. It really is a fascinating story. I am not surprised he was incredibly intelligent. It seems like in lotta people who do these unique things have high intelligence. I wish I could’ve met him. Learn what made him tick.

missmolly: "I could survive the coldest BWCA winter if I had Ada Blackjack with me.


The Mighty Ada "

You’d need polar bear meat also. : )

I recommended this book on another thread. It is a fantastic story. The title is “Ada Blackjack: A true story of survival in the Arctic.”

Portage99: "

DRob1992: "

Portage99: "I am trying to find this guy's name, but it has escaped me.



I found this guy fascinating because he tried to live the way people lived before modern times. It sounds like he was wildly successful. However, he really wanted to do it with NO outside cheats. He lived this amazing lifestyle for decades. Then, one day, he told his friends his lifelong passion was impossible. That modern man could no longer live that way successfully. He told friends he was going to travel the world but ended up killing himself instead of changing goals (sadly).



I love reading about tribal life and biographies of the leaders of the tribes. Interesting skills and wisdom, much of it lost. "

This particular man is mentioned in the book 'Into The Wild'. I forget his name as well. But I was very fascinated for a time with this man. I do recall he was from a very prominent family and kept a 4.0 at Princeton (but refused to graduate and earn an official degree). I can't even fathom how that guy was able to maintain that type of lifestyle. On top of surviving like that in Alaska, he also worked out strenuously every day. "

I’m glad someone knows what I’m talking about. It really is a fascinating story. I am not surprised he was incredibly intelligent. It seems like in lotta people who do these unique things have high intelligence. I wish I could’ve met him. Learn what made him tick."

I also would love to have met him. I can relate to that guy in a lot of ways: deep love and respect for nature, intense drive to push my physical body to its limits, solitary/introverted personality... He definitely has me beat in terms of intelligence and skillset needed to survive that type of lifestyle. But I totally understand him without having ever met him. Gotta be one tough cookie to survive like that.

Sort of sounds like Eustace Conway. It's too bad his previous life will have the "taint" of the show Mountain Men associated with it...for some...He seemed to live that life but I suppose suffered the same stressors of the man you refer, but acclimated to television vs suicide.
I had the good fortune to read the book "The Last American Man" back in the early 2000's long before the show. If you can block out what you've seen it's worth the read. From living in a tipi to eating road kill and bathing in a stream, he was another who shunned modern society for a more primitive way of living.

DRob1992: "

Portage99: "

DRob1992: "

Portage99: "I am trying to find this guy's name, but it has escaped me.




I found this guy fascinating because he tried to live the way people lived before modern times. It sounds like he was wildly successful. However, he really wanted to do it with NO outside cheats. He lived this amazing lifestyle for decades. Then, one day, he told his friends his lifelong passion was impossible. That modern man could no longer live that way successfully. He told friends he was going to travel the world but ended up killing himself instead of changing goals (sadly).




I love reading about tribal life and biographies of the leaders of the tribes. Interesting skills and wisdom, much of it lost. "

This particular man is mentioned in the book 'Into The Wild'. I forget his name as well. But I was very fascinated for a time with this man. I do recall he was from a very prominent family and kept a 4.0 at Princeton (but refused to graduate and earn an official degree). I can't even fathom how that guy was able to maintain that type of lifestyle. On top of surviving like that in Alaska, he also worked out strenuously every day. "

I’m glad someone knows what I’m talking about. It really is a fascinating story. I am not surprised he was incredibly intelligent. It seems like in lotta people who do these unique things have high intelligence. I wish I could’ve met him. Learn what made him tick."

I also would love to have met him. I can relate to that guy in a lot of ways: deep love and respect for nature, intense drive to push my physical body to its limits, solitary/introverted personality... He definitely has me beat in terms of intelligence and skillset needed to survive that type of lifestyle. But I totally understand him without having ever met him. Gotta be one tough cookie to survive like that."

nofish: "I'm like a lot of you, I've played the scenario out many times in my head. I think you need to set the parameters first. Are we talking about setting out to survive long term or attempting to be rescued? My plan would change depending on the scenario.

My thought is to survive until ice-out, say May 15th. No energy expended on rescue or getting out.

Honestly if any of us were stranded without food and had to survive the winter most of wouldn't make it and if we did we'd be in rough shape. Look at the guy who won the season of Alone in a northern winter. He shot a moose so had plenty of food and yet he was still withering away because he had no fat intake. Without a summer to prep and store foods like fish that have good fat content you'd be in rough shape. Having to do it all alone is even harder. You have so much work to do but no one to share the load.

I actually imagine a scenario with 4 guys, mostly because that is our normal trip size. Actually we had 5 guys the trip I imagine as our starting point, but somehow number 5 got erased in the survival situation. I agree doing it alone would be much harder, mostly mentally.

Your best bet would be to attempt fishing but that will be a challenge. Thankfully in the winter if you are able to stockpile food spoilage is no concern since you're living in a freezer.

Agreed. Fall fishing can be hit or miss and I think you'd have to fish like crazy and on the days they are hitting, you have to fill the boat. I think having the canoes and fishing tackle is a huge advantage over what they have to do in Alone.

Assuming you can get enough food which is doubtful shelter is the next concern. Although I think most of us are clever enough to build a suitable shelter assuming reasonable tools on hand, an ax would be very helpful. The key to the shelter would be warmth so you'd need to design a safe way to have a fire.

I think about this most. My ideal survival shelter would be built out of straw bales, but cordage to make the bales would be too valuable and the energy to make them too high. I'd think a log shelter, possibly dug into or built into a cliff or hill would be best.

If everything goes well you may survive however I very much doubt anyone would thrive. It would be a very long challenging experience that would take a physical toll on all of us.

Agreed.

Duckman: "How long can a human survive on water and protein?

I agree fish would be your number one food source (mostly protein), but you could easily get enough vitamin C (pine needles) and roughage with a tiny bit of nutrients (reindeer moss). Fat is what I wonder about most. Beaver tail is essentially 100% fat and I wonder if you could find enough to stay alive. Wolves dig into their den to kill them, so we could too. I'm also wondering if we could rig up traps without wire. Lately I've been thinking that snare wire would be the one thing I would add.

I'm curious if we could catch enough calories to survive.

Assuming you can keep a fire going and make a suitable shelter and not freeze.

I think the shelter part isn't too hard. It would take a lot of work, but an insulated log shelter with a fire pit isn't that hard to build. We bring a big tarp so that would be our waterproofing. I'd think a fireplace that allows you to burn the tips of a few logs would be ideal. That way you cut big logs into 10 foot lengths and just burn them shorter. I'm amazed on survival shows how much energy they expend processing firewood. Once you have big logs burning, you can put other logs on and they'll burn. You obviously need small stuff to get it going and for emergency re-lighting, but big stuff burns other big stuff.

And assuming you have enough on you to keep supplied with fish and maybe the occasional rabbit or something.

This is the biggest unknown. We've had spotty luck fishing, but I know it can be feast or famine and you'd have to catch enough in the feast times to cover the famine times. I also believe you'd get to know an area much better after fishing it for weeks in one area.

And those are big assumptions.


Can you survive 4 or 5 months on just the same protein and water? I don’t know the answer, but my guess is it would be a close call. Like someone already said, health wise you won’t be thriving. You’re probably one cold or small injury away from death after a month or two due to your body’s inability to heal and cope with it all.


And you would certainly go insane and have some serious mental issues by the end. I’d probably name and befriend my biolite cook stove if I had to pick a piece of gear to fill the Wilson role."

Interesting, why this? Cooking over a fire seems almost as good as this. Why would you choose this?

afromaniac: "The seasons of the show alone where they are in the Canadian wilderness are about as close to BWCA life as you can get. It’s the same topography and very close to the same plant and wildlife that exist in the boundary waters, just further north. There may be more wolverines and definitely more musk ox up there. And the people on the show struggle. if you notice they almost never see any deer sign or tracks.

Agreed. I think your chances of big game are very small. Deer are very uncommon in the BWCA. I'd think finding a bear den or baiting one in with fish guts would be the only reasonable chance at big game. The baiting would be relatively low effort, but I wouldn't know how to find a bear. Bears are fatty, so their meat would be a life saver over the winter.

We are also outfitted differently than on Alone, we're much heavier on fishing gear (plus have boats) but have nothing for trapping and no bow. We've have to come up with a way to kill bear if we found one.

I know some people have success fishing in the boundary waters but I would never rely on fish for even a single day’s meal on a week long trip. So in general, food would be a huge issue that would color every other aspect.

100% agreed. Could you catch enough is the big question.

Portage99: "

missmolly: "I could survive the coldest BWCA winter if I had Ada Blackjack with me.



The Mighty Ada "

You’d need polar bear meat also. : )


I recommended this book on another thread. It is a fantastic story. The title is “Ada Blackjack: A true story of survival in the Arctic.”


"

I saw your recommendation and read the book. It has informed my thoughts greatly. The one thing that stood out was the Ada was missing some serious skills when she started, but by sheer grit learned what she had to learn, while taking care of other.

She was also well outfitted with a lot of food to cover the scarce times. That is a huge advantage. We'd probably have 3-4 days of food in our cache.

Minnesotian: "
Yeah, these are fun "what if" things to think about.


Gathering food is the all consuming (pun) activity. The more ways you know how to do this, the easier survival will be. That means learning about what plants are edible, because they will be the most consistent source of food, depending on the season of course.
In the BWCA and the Canadian shield, Caribou Moss is edible and very abundant and around the whole year. Tasty, no, but edible. Can you survive purely on that? No.

Agreed, it moss would keep you regular, but wouldn't add much nutrients.

Might get some mushrooms still in the fall, but you better know the difference with them.

One of the guys I go with is good with mushrooms. You could probably find some, but they'd be like eating a 2x4 by that time. Might still be worth it for fiber and micronutrients.

Got some parachute cord? Know some knots? Time to make a gill net. Anytime you can set something that is doing the work of getting food without you having to constantly watch it is a key advantage. Same for rabbit snares.

Agreed. Passive things like gill nets and trot lines would be key. I'm curious how much you could add to your take with these techniques. I'd love to try them in the BWCA. I should look into the regulations on this. I know they allow whitefish gill netting and you have to throw the game fish back.

bobbernumber3: "Hey Chuckles... have you ever considered a few days winter camping in the BWCA?? It would help you define some of the priorities needed for survival in cold conditions."

I have thought about it. I grew up in upstate NY and used to winter camp in the Adirondack mountains. It isn't as cold there, but we did go one weekend where it got down to 15 below. I know a long weekend is different than months, but there was never a time when I was ready to leave. I had slightly warmer clothes than I take on a Oct BWCA trip, but not much.

In fact, it was revisiting an Adirondacks trip that got me to the BWCA. My brother wasn't a camper growing up, but has gotten into it as an adult. He and his friends tried a winter Adirondacks trip and failed miserably. They couldn't start a fire and left after one miserable night.

My brother wanted to try it with someone who'd done it before, so we got in touch with the family I used to go with and joined them again. It was a great trip. After that, he wanted to try just the two of us, so we settled on an October BWCA trip. And the rest is history...

I ALWAYS carry an ACR ResQlink. Prices from $300 to $400 or so depending on model. Others prefer the Garmin In Reach.

Agreed, rescue is always your best chance of survival, but that isn't much fun to think about. Well I actually think about that too. If I was getting rescued I'd build fires and have two pre-built fire enchancers for if you hear a plane. One would make smoke like crazy for daytime and the other would make bright flames for the nighttime. I'd make them like pyramids that can be lifted and put atop an existing fire to create what you need immediately. I'd build multiple of each kind. But I'm taking rescue off the table for this scenario.

Some random thoughts.
Couple more random observations:
Fish- freshwater fish usually are low in fat. If you were going to plan on being stranded more than a few weeks, then a fish diet will likely need some additional fat to keep you warm.

I agree 100%. The two main sources of fat I can think of in the BWCA are beaver and bears. I'd think beaver would be easier to access, but one bear would go a LONG ways.

Good winter read ; "Into to the Wild" by Jon Krakauer re: Chris McCandless who starved while spending a winter in an old bus in Alaska circa 1992. A sad journal about a young man who was totally unprepared and over his head. He actually shot a moose, let the meat spoil as he had no knowledge or method to preserve it. Possibly he ingested into toxic plants as well.

Read it and enjoyed it years ago. I often wonder what his ultimate goals were. The scene early in the book where the guy who give him a ride convinces him to take the rubber boots he's wearing so he's got something waterproof on his feet tells me how unprepared he was.

Considerations:
Melting snow for drinking water takes a huge amount of fuel. Getting water when there's 30-36 inches of ice is a chore. In the mountains springs may flow all year but if there's 7 feet of snow retrieving the water will be difficult.

Agreed. I've done both winter camping (melting snow and using lake water). Only done this with 12-18 inches of ice, but soft water is better. I'd think we'd need to ice fish for calories all winter, so you'd have to have holes in the ice. Assuming you make and cover the hole when the ice isn't so thick, you'd only have to get through new ice as it forms. Might still be a challenge. Plenty of people have faced this challenge; I'll have to investigate how they did it.


Snow caves and quinzees are worth learning about. Tents, a good one can save yr life. A cheap one, maybe not so much. I've built many of them (one this week). I'm still trying to convince my 11 yo to join me in it one of these nights. I think a log shelter with snow insulation would be better long-term than a snow shelter.

There's so much to learn: Survival takes a big bag of tricks. A person surviving in a cold dry environment of the Inter Mountain West needs to learn different techniques versus a person in the warmer rain drenched Pacific North West versus a high latitude Arctic dweller.
Agreed. I wouldn't stand much chance in a desert.

I led overnight cross country ski trips of early teens in Wyoming mountains for some years. (No more, too old) Young teens consume huge quantities of food esp. just before bedtime.

We did this in the Adirondacks of NY. I usually snowshoed because I stunk at skiing, but I mostly remember eating everything we could. Pepperoni slices stabbed on a stick and gobbled while dripping grease.

Though my hunch is this post is preaching to the choir. People reading BWCA are pretty heads up and more self sufficient.
"
That's why I posted this here. :)

analyzer
I think you'd have to stay near a stream, or at least where there is current in the lake. Lake ice up there must get to be 40" thick.

I think you'd want access to moving and still water so camping near both would be good. You'd want open water as long as possible for fishing, but you'd also want to get on the ice to fish.

I would build my shelter as much into the ground as possible. Build it into a hillside. Unfortunately there isn't a ton of dirt up there, it's so much rock.

Agreed. The site we stayed where I imagine starting this was an island site on Crab lake. The ground was covered in feet of pine duff. The whole site was like walking on a mattress. I'd want to build into this side of a cliff or against tall rocks for a built-in fireplace, but I'd think this pine duff would be perfect to insulate a shelter.

You're going to have to spend a fair amount of time exposed to the elements. There are extended periods of time where it's -30 degrees.
I don't know that you would bring the right boots, and winter clothing on a september/october trip, to survive in January. I actually use the same boots and socks for these trips that I wear when it gets 30 below at home. I bring most of the same clothing, but I'm sure I'd long for a few more layers when it got colder. I bring my -20 down bag every year.

Can you create warm enough foot wear from a beaver? The better question is, can I? I doubt it. Just trying to thread a beaver pelt would be tough.

Read a book about a guy who lives in the Alaskan bush and there were two survival lessons I took from the book. One is you need to have a backup shelter if your primary one burns down. Not sure the risk reward makes it worth the effort in a survival situation, but it as interesting. He had a completely separate cabin, just in case.

The second lesson was never go into the wild without a needle and stout thread. Splitting a seam can mean you freeze to death or get soaked and then freeze. I now bring a few needles and stout thread in my little survival pack I carry. I'm not sure it would make me a master of beaver mucklucks, but I'd have a much better chance with a needle than without one.

I get it when people have heated homes, with heated attached Garages, and heated cars, and go to a heated office, and shop in a heated grocery store, but I recall one winter back in the early 80's, in the Twin Cities, where the high was below zero for something like 2 or 3 strt weeks. 18 days if i recall correctly. Who lives outdoors in that? And that's the twin cities, which is relatively mild compared to the canadian border, and much shorter winters in duration. I have great respect for the warriors that tackled that in the 1800's.
"

Agreed, there is a huge difference being a tough-guy for a few days, knowing the comforts of home or rescue are a phone call away and having to do it on you own. There is a line from a Mighty Mighty Boss Tones song that says,
I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested
I'd like to think that if I was I would pass
Look at the tested, and think "There but for the grace go I"
Might be a coward, I'm afraid of what I might find out

Think about this often.

Stumpy: "There are lakes, almost never fished, teaming with trout.
Beaver galore, and I know how to trap them.
Water shield galore, completely edible, even the slime on their stems.
Cattail tubers...edible.
Lilly pad tubers...edible.
Water Shield tubers....edible.
Much more, but right there, you have veggies, starches, and proteins.


The ranger (actually customs guy) thought it strange, that I declared such little food (back then you payed a duty, on food)


At the age of 25, I tried to do it. Came back out of Quetico, I thought for just a few days.... for a friends 30th surprise birthday party in Ely. Was missing my girlfriend so much, that I didn't go back in... Damned women ;) "

Wow. How long were you out there?

My thought on tubers is that most of them require getting soaked to get them. The water in early Oct is warmer than the air, but cold enough that submersion requires you to go get to a fire quickly or risk hypothermia. (Ask how I know...). I'm wondering if getting those tubers is worth the effort in the shoulder season. Any thoughts?

merlyn:

I.M GOING TO DIE! just not fast. I figure I would last about 2-3 months. I have a fair amount of outdoor skills and have a decent equipment load but nothing to make it well into the really cold months. Starvation and freezing are in a race with illness and accident.

This is likely what happens to us too, but I like to think with some time out there, your skills improve and your chances fo up. Once you're not eating enough and not staying warm, you're done.

Shelter and clothing: With a tent and tarp I would be ok till it got really cold then a shelter with inside fire would be necessary. I think I could cobble something together but nothing good enough to last an entire winter. Clothing would be ok till the snow came and maybe even later if I could trap some fur. Boots and gloves would be the main concern, primitive snow shoes I can do and rough tanning a hide I can do.

I bring my warmest boots and several pairs of gloves, but I'd need to make some fur overmitts to last. I'd likely also need another layer or two of fur, but I bring a lot of clothing at a -20 bag.

Small stuff: What do you do if the saw blade breaks or when the batteries and spares for your headlamp run out? Loose your glasses? fall through the ice?

The whole time you're one accident from misery or death, no question.

Lighters dry up? ( I tried several times to make fire with a bow drill- smoke and muscle cramps were all I got but had better luck with the magnify lens on my compass)

I succeeded in making a fire with a bow and drill this summer after trying for 30 years. I can now successfully repeat it in near perfect conditions. I think you keep the fire burning; always. I just tested some 'all night fires' and the best one was just a few big logs where you push the tips together and they keep that area hot. Once the logs burn down you push the closer to the fire. This was the lowest effort way I can think of keeping warm.

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE WHISKEY AND TP RUN OUT?

Ignore the truly terrible parts and focus on the starvation. :)

I have to conclude that I wouldn't make it but like to think I would go down swinging."

I like to think I'd make it, but my attitude is exactly like yours.

Good content here. After reading through, and doing some self evaluation on my own strengths and weaknesses. I find that I am great at burning calories and extremely weak at hunting and gathering. So, I would do one of two things.

Partially/thin frozen lake scenario- Unable to paddle or walk out, I would construct a crude shelter, establish a fire and harvest a supply of fuel which would feed my smoky signal fire.

Frozen lake scenario- Attempt to hike out with map and compass.

I would not survive the winter. No way, no how.

J

quinzees

You're right that they are underrated. I built a few when I was in Boy Scouts and although I didn't have a thermometer with us, I'd have to guess it was mid 40's inside at night in the dead of winter. Only issue is they are not sustainable. Enough sunlight would erode them quickly.

Snow packed around a structure (be it tent, lean to, cabin) seems like the best insulation idea and is certainly available all the time.

I love this thread

okinaw55: "quinzees

You're right that they are underrated. I built a few when I was in Boy Scouts and although I didn't have a thermometer with us, I'd have to guess it was mid 40's inside at night in the dead of winter. Only issue is they are not sustainable. Enough sunlight would erode them quickly.

Yes, the one we carved this week has shrunk twice. Day zero it was tall enough I could sit up in it. Day 2 I couldn't lay sideways without touching the top. We dug it out again on day 2 so I could almost sit up in it, but couldn't go any higher as the top was now only a few inches thick. Day 4 my 11 year old said it shrunk again and she could hardly sit up in it.

Snow packed around a structure (be it tent, lean to, cabin) seems like the best insulation idea and is certainly available all the time. I agree. I think a cabin with brush backed around it and snow backed over that is the warmest thing you can get.

In the Ada Blackjack book, they built a snow shelter over their tent. I know they cut blocks igloo style. There is a picture in the book (which is at my office so I can't get it today) of the show wall. In my mind this snow went over the top of the tent too, but I can't see how you could do that would some support.

I've also been thinking of building insulated sleeping 'tubes' made of grass or brush to go over the bottom 2/3 of your body while sleeping. This would (hopefully) make the condensation point the outside of the 'tube' instead of the outside of your sleeping bag. My ideal 'tube' material would be straw bales (I've actually done some very rough testing with these). But I think brush or pine boughs would probably have to do.

I love this thread"

Me too. Glad so many people have weighed in. I've been stewing on this alone for years; it is fun to hear other people's thoughts.

I've actually been turning this over in my head. If you came with a saw/axe/hatchet, its feasible I think (maybe not) that you would be able to mine ice blocks from the lake to do what you mentioned with igloo style. That said, the energy involved in something like that would certainly be counterproductive. Especially with it not being a permanent solution.

With NW winds prominent here, it would make sense to find a nice huge boulder or rock ledge that's blocking the wind. I still can't imagine the hell that would be though.

It's been nearly a quarter century since I read Michener's "Alaska," but as I remember, Michener described the Asians crossing the land bridge to Alaska as conserving calories by inactivity in the winter and huddling up in the shelters to conserve even more calories.

analyzer: "...Even about the Twin Cities, I often ask myself, who settled here? I can only imagine how beautiful the twin cities must have been, especially the convergence of the mississippi and the St. Croix etc. ... I have great respect for the warriors that tackled that in the 1800's.
"

Some of the first at the now vanished Point Douglas were the ones that named and settled Marine on St. Croix.

As for survival? I’d do what Aaron did all along. …Walk out when the going got tough and commence to beg on Sheridan Street.

It appears to me, if you continue to drift back into those survival thoughts of yours, then make it a reality. It's all up to you! If you don't, that challenging imagination just may become a haunting prince of regrets. So prepare, make plans, go to the nortern region of the BW, face south, and pound ground. You won't be the first to make that trek. And when you come out, you won't be the same man.

You wouldn't make it though the winter. If you go to the Indian museum by Mille Lacs Lake they will tell you lots of Indians starved over winter and they had time to prep. They even said they dispersed their homes so that if one family got sick or ran out of food they would not be a bother to the next family. This made it so the tribe would survive. Winter would kill the unprepared.

Which Indians died? In all cultures, one will find some strong, some weak, some lazy, slugs, elderly, ones that lost will, didn't prep properly, etc. If one decided to venture a whole winter living in the BW, such individual would have to be both physically and mentally strong, knowledgeable in survival skills, strong willed, well organized in preparation, carry the best gear, cautious in every move, the time of course, and thy will walk out. Don't let others discourage you. Yes it would be work, effort, and an element of danger. Those are called adventures. Is this a fantasy or a dream? Dreams can be fun but a dream is merely a dream, an object has a plan. I have had wondering dreams of entering into Low's Gully. But just a dream. The mental state bought tempoary moments of excitement.

Go to that museum. You will learn all about it.

Just my two cents.

I don't think you can compare the life expectancy of the two eras only in terms of survival skills.

The average life expectancy for everyone varied by decades from today's standards (infectious disease, infections, lack of our insanely adequate diet today).

I love reading about Crazy Horse and his era. They were seriously bad a$$ when it came to surviving. Some died for sure, but I wish we would have preserved those skills. Gone with the wind a lot of them.

You might argue we might have a better chance of surviving in certain cases. For example, I remember reading about a man who died of a staph infection from a rose bush pricking him (and, subsequent infection). Today, we could take a bottle of antibiotics (or is that cheating?LOL)

Anyway....I agree no matter how you slice it, winter is a killer for us fragile humans.

For a great read about winter warfare (and other things), I recommend "The Heart of Everything that Is" by Bob Drury & Tom Clavin. And, also, "The Journey of Crazy Horse" by Joseph Marshall III. I could not put them down. The battle scenes in the Drury book are told with such great storytelling I still remember the BITTER COLD details! Reading them together you get different perspectives (sometimes conflicting) accounts of the same historical event.

Okay, sorry for the off topic derail, there. But, these books are GOLD.

Chuckles: "

okinaw55: "quinzees
Snow packed around a structure (be it tent, lean to, cabin) seems like the best insulation idea and is certainly available all the time.

I agree. I think a cabin with brush backed around it and snow backed over that is the warmest thing you can get.


In the Ada Blackjack book, they built a snow shelter over their tent. I know they cut blocks igloo style. There is a picture in the book (which is at my office so I can't get it today) of the show wall. In my mind this snow went over the top of the tent too, but I can't see how you could do that would some support.

"

I finally got around to getting the book out and looking at the pictures. Looks like they didn't cover the roof, but instead just build snow walls.

bhouse46: "Winter is here and the mind wanders. What would I do questions are fun, but unlikely. The time and effort to build a secure camp and food supply would seem better spent walking out. And having done some of this thinking my survival kit includes map and compass...and I carry a Garmin in reach.
These questions are fun rabbit holes for a cold winter day/night/next day..."

Yup just keep moving. You have plenty of water. The BW is small enough where you won't starve to death if you keep moving in the right direction

Now this is a scenario where you might wish you brought a pig with you. Haha! In my younger years I’d be all in for the challenge. Now, I can hardly “survive” at home. My body hurts so bad as some fronts come through... even now, we’re prepping as this weekend we are dipping into the deep freeze. Won’t see zero for three days anyways...
So no, I’d not make it too long. But there was a time!

Really enjoying this thread! My trips are always in the summer. Since my first trip in '98, it has been a tradition to ask the rookies on the trip these very questions. Something along the lines of, '...if you knew that the rest of MN was a nuclear holocaust and you HAD to stay here through the winter, how would you manage? What would you do first?' Most fall in the lines of many on this thread that they would not make it. I'm sure I wouldn't either - I could maybe find enough food (though fats would be difficult as previously mentioned), but the cold would kill me off pretty quick.
Since we don't have warm clothing on summer trips, everyone recognizes that they'd have to kill something for the pelt - deer, moose, bear - and for food. Most give up pretty easily right there not knowing how they would manage it.

trstuck: "Most give up pretty easily right there not knowing how they would manage it."

My Grandpa's favorite quote was, " I don't know what I will be, but I won't be weak." Survival odds are low in the situation, I know. But I believe and hope I would go down swinging, rather than quit.

I'm not a big gun guy but it would help. Saving calories by inactivity would help. The book Edible Wild Plants a North American Field Guide would help. I think a structure would be easy and vegetation is a good insulator. I believe I could take down a bear with a ten foot by two inch pine pole with a point carved on the end, and big rocks make good dead falls. Two foot of surgical tubing would fit in your pocket and a sling shot would take down a bird or a squirrel. Four foot of tie wire for a snare doesn't take up much room and it could be wrapped around the thwart. A bottle of multi vitamins would be better then pine needles. Beaver and tubers would be the staples. Good footwear is critical for harvesting cat tails and well placed stones in a cat trail garden would help. A good emergency survival bag doesn't have to be big just appropriated correctly...The still is the tough part....a little bit of copper tubing and an aluminium canoe and we might have something