I was told today that I wouldn't be issued a RABC permit to get into Quetico this year. They don't see the border being open in 2021. They will be sending me a refund. They also don't know if they are going to continue with the RABC program in the future. So the only way to enter Quetico in the future if this takes place is that you would have to drive to one of the northern entry points. Just sad news all the way around.

I can understand but would be surprised because of lost income. The Park depends on it.

I just can't imagine that they would permanently close Prairie Portage or Cache Bay.

If the RABC program is ended permanently then Prairie Portage and Cache Bay would close. They are unlikely to re-establish customs stations at those locations. The SE corner of the park would be very remote.

I am thinking that RABC will happen again in the future when the covid thing plays out. I may be too old to get back into Quetico by the time that happens, but younger folk will see it again.

ending the RABC would certainly change usage patterns in the park. i would imagine that the western entries via Crane Lake would be swamped and that the lakes and portages on the easiest routes from the northern entries to the lakes along Q's south border would experience pretty significant overuse. and with no entry from PP or Cache Bay, entry permits on the north might be hard to get unless they raised the entry quotas. i don't know how they could fit anymore vehicles in at the beaverhouse entry if they raised the quoatas. it has sometimes been difficult to find a place to park under the current quotas.

it might let the southern part of the park rejuvenate some, but it sure would make visiting some classic places in the southern part of the park a chore unless you were in for more than a week.

I haven't taken time to digest all of the comments about Quetico yet, so my following response may just be a knee-jerk reaction.

Ever since my first trip to Quetico in the late 90's, it seems as if the Ontario Parks Department has tried to discourage people from tripping into the park. With the RABC permit cost, outdoor card cost, reservation and high camping fees, barbless hook and no live bait regulations, I know of several people who have been discouraged and now use the Boundary Waters instead. It hasn't hindered me and I have made 15 trips. Quetico is worth the extra expense in my opinion.

I hope the Ontario Parks Service isn't using the covid-19 pandemic as a springboard excuse to finally keep almost all travelers from using the Quetico wilderness, especially Americans. A major policy change regarding permitting and entry points in the near future would certainly be a final blow to most people I know.

This is just a reaction to your messages and I hope closing the ranger stations doesn't become a reality. However, it does look like our world is changing and may never be the same after covid.

Terry

My first thought is people will go anyway. It might turn into an outlaw activity

If the feds do away with RABC, I think the park might try to get custom agent back at least at PP. Even paying for it, I think they would come out ahead.

I can't see them getting rid of RABC's, but then again most things that the government does never really makes sense either. If they did get rid of it and not let entry through PP, I would definitely be thinking about going to WCPP instead.

Matt

24kGold: "I haven't taken time to digest all of the comments about Quetico yet, so my following response may just be a knee-jerk reaction.


Ever since my first trip to Quetico in the late 90's, it seems as if the Ontario Parks Department has tried to discourage people from tripping into the park. With the RABC permit cost, outdoor card cost, reservation and high camping fees, barbless hook and no live bait regulations, I know of several people who have been discouraged and now use the Boundary Waters instead. It hasn't hindered me and I have made 15 trips. Quetico is worth the extra expense in my opinion.


I hope the Ontario Parks Service isn't using the covid-19 pandemic as a springboard excuse to finally keep almost all travelers from using the Quetico wilderness, especially Americans. A major policy change regarding permitting and entry points in the near future would certainly be a final blow to most people I know.


This is just a reaction to your messages and I hope closing the ranger stations doesn't become a reality. However, it does look like our world is changing and may never be the same after covid.


Terry"

I don't think that is the case. Parks Ontario has made it a priority to manage Quetico as a wilderness park. They also wanted to make the park self-sustaining, financially. This costs money.

Bans on live bait were just plain common sense in light of invasive species, such as rusty crayfish and earthworms that are becoming a problem to the south.

Ever wonder why fishing and wilderness tripping in the BWCA is inferior to that in Quetico?

24kGold: "I haven't taken time to digest all of the comments about Quetico yet, so my following response may just be a knee-jerk reaction.


Ever since my first trip to Quetico in the late 90's, it seems as if the Ontario Parks Department has tried to discourage people from tripping into the park. With the RABC permit cost, outdoor card cost, reservation and high camping fees, barbless hook and no live bait regulations, I know of several people who have been discouraged and now use the Boundary Waters instead. It hasn't hindered me and I have made 15 trips. Quetico is worth the extra expense in my opinion.


I hope the Ontario Parks Service isn't using the covid-19 pandemic as a springboard excuse to finally keep almost all travelers from using the Quetico wilderness, especially Americans. A major policy change regarding permitting and entry points in the near future would certainly be a final blow to most people I know.



Terry"

Ontario has nothing to do with the RABC program which falls under Immigration - a fed mandate. The response given regarding ending the RABC program may simply be because a new program for remote crossings is being contemplated.

Argo: "

24kGold: "I haven't taken time to digest all of the comments about Quetico yet, so my following response may just be a knee-jerk reaction.

Ever since my first trip to Quetico in the late 90's, it seems as if the Ontario Parks Department has tried to discourage people from tripping into the park. With the RABC permit cost, outdoor card cost, reservation and high camping fees, barbless hook and no live bait regulations, I know of several people who have been discouraged and now use the Boundary Waters instead. It hasn't hindered me and I have made 15 trips. Quetico is worth the extra expense in my opinion.

I hope the Ontario Parks Service isn't using the covid-19 pandemic as a springboard excuse to finally keep almost all travelers from using the Quetico wilderness, especially Americans. A major policy change regarding permitting and entry points in the near future would certainly be a final blow to most people I know.

Terry"

Ontario has nothing to do with the RABC program which falls under Immigration - a fed mandate. The response given regarding ending the RABC program may simply be because a new program for remote crossings is being contemplated. "

Or you may just be forced to go to an existing Canadian Customs point to clear customs before you go to one of the pre-existing southern entry points.

Perhaps, I'm making an assumption, but I believe that would mean the Canadian Customs location at Sandy point would remain open. I'm wondering if the Ranger Station on LLC would stay open as well.

Did the Ranger Stations at Prairie Portage and Cache Bay stay open in 2020?

dd

Hold on dentondoc,

The only southern customs is on Crane Lake.
That would make absolutely everything east of Lac LaCoix impossible,

Thinking about this, and knowing that Quetico knows they need American$ to offenses park expenses, you would think there would be a work around otherwise there would be almost no way to visit the Q from anyplace along the border except Crane Lake.

-Tom

tumblehome: "Hold on dentondoc,

The only southern customs is on Crane Lake.
That would make absolutely everything east of Lac LaCoix impossible,

Thinking about this, and knowing that Quetico knows they need American$ to offenses park expenses, you would think there would be a work around otherwise there would be almost no way to visit the Q from anyplace along the border except Crane Lake.

-Tom"

Hmmmm.

While I've cleared US Customs at Crane Lake a number of times, every time I've cleared Canadian Customs in that area, it has been at Sandy Point.

dd

DD- I think we’re talking about the same spot.
I’ve always called it Crane Lake but I guess that is the wrong terminology. Sand Point is what they call it.

Crane Lake US Customs closed for good a few years ago.

Tom

dentondoc: "

Argo: "

24kGold: "I haven't taken time to digest all of the comments about Quetico yet, so my following response may just be a knee-jerk reaction.

Ever since my first trip to Quetico in the late 90's, it seems as if the Ontario Parks Department has tried to discourage people from tripping into the park. With the RABC permit cost, outdoor card cost, reservation and high camping fees, barbless hook and no live bait regulations, I know of several people who have been discouraged and now use the Boundary Waters instead. It hasn't hindered me and I have made 15 trips. Quetico is worth the extra expense in my opinion.

I hope the Ontario Parks Service isn't using the covid-19 pandemic as a springboard excuse to finally keep almost all travelers from using the Quetico wilderness, especially Americans. A major policy change regarding permitting and entry points in the near future would certainly be a final blow to most people I know.

Terry"

Ontario has nothing to do with the RABC program which falls under Immigration - a fed mandate. The response given regarding ending the RABC program may simply be because a new program for remote crossings is being contemplated. "

Or you may just be forced to go to an existing Canadian Customs point to clear customs before you go to one of the pre-existing southern entry points.

Perhaps, I'm making an assumption, but I believe that would mean the Canadian Customs location at Sandy point would remain open. I'm wondering if the Ranger Station on LLC would stay open as well.

Did the Ranger Stations at Prairie Portage and Cache Bay stay open in 2020?

dd"

I was wondering the same thing about the ranger stations. I would think they would have to remain open for a number of reasons. Does anybody know?

I think we just don't know much except speculation. It is extremely depressing. In time we will get our answers but until then I will just sit and stew. Just switched two Quetico trips to the BW, at least will get the permit and then change if I can. Was hoping for a June solo to Quetico but seems that might not be in the cards. Some of us old geezers are running out of time to get back to the middle of the Q................

QueticoMike, while the RABC program could be going away, I can't agree with your conclusion that the southern access points would be closed. I imagine there would be a customs agent placed at the ranger stations or some other system put in place. Hell, they had satellite video phones to cross the border at Angle Inlet at Lake of the Woods. The video never worked. You just called a Canadian Customs agent before crossing the border. That would work, they could stick those at the Ranger Stations. I choose to be optimistic, but maybe not for a Quetico trip in 2021. I also think being vaccinated could get you across the border, and maybe that could put into effect sooner.

I am going to WCPP this June 1 if by miracle we are allowed across the border and the park is open. But I have never been to the northern Quetico area anyway, so if the southern points are closed, I just go to WCPP or the northern Quetico entry points.

A guy was saying something about permits being distributed to Outfitters on a lottery basis...on Facebook. I have no idea what he was talking about.

Joe

When I was a Kid I remember hitting the Canadian Customs before heading to Cache Bay to see janice, I believe it was to the east, or am I remembering this wrong.

The Saganaga Lake customs was on Government Island just SW of the big Red Pine Island. If you were paddling to Cache Bay it made for a long day. Last I was there was 1987. By my next Quetico trip in 1999 we had RABC permits. We easily paddled from Trails End to Cache Bay to be there when the office was opening for the day. Thought that was pretty nice!

I remember getting caught in rough weather going from customs to Cache Bay and ending up camping on the US side. Nobody really cared much about the border back then. We had both Quetico and BWCAW permits and camped on both sides of the border depending on what was available. That would be a little risky these days.

Back in the old days, like the early 80’s, the Canadian customs officer would tally up the pounds of food we brought on our trip and charge us a duty fee for the food. I was 13 and with a school group.

Tom

We were always nervous at PP to submit to customs. Only because of the question about how much liquor do you have. This was 40-45 years ago. After quite a few trips the customs guy whose name escapes me didn’t even bother to ask us.

In the mid 1970's, the food duty consisted of how many people were in the crew and how many days we would be in Canada. Didn't matter that we were poorer than church mice then, and had the cheapest foods (rice, beans, noodles, oatmeal); they had a set amount per day on their duty schedule.

One trip in the late 80's, I remember specifically because they had us unpack all of our contents onto the dock, I was too young to know what they thought we were bringing in or what they may have been looking for.

Maybe some good news? I received a letter from the Canada Border Services Agency saying they will be sending me a $30 check in the next 6 to 8 weeks for refund of my 2020 RABC.

The bright spot in the letter and read into what you will, states : Please check our website for information on the resumption of the RABC program, at which time you will be able to submit a new application.

They also mention in the letter previous to the above sentence it mentions "suspension of the program". So that's sounds promising as well.

So it doesn't sound to me like that are doing away with the RABC program which I was told on the phone could be a possibility.

Ditto, my daughter received the same letter!
Joe

Finally! We needed some good Quetico news, regardless of how small or presumptive it may be!

A glimmer of hope!! I'll take it!!