I was told today that I wouldn't be issued a RABC permit to get into Quetico this year. They don't see the border being open in 2021. They will be sending me a refund. They also don't know if they are going to continue with the RABC program in the future. So the only way to enter Quetico in the future if this takes place is that you would have to drive to one of the northern entry points. Just sad news all the way around.

That stinks. I've got 2 paddling buddies who could make an Upper Mo paddle this fall, so we put it off hoping travel would be able to happen this year. Looks like I'm a Cubs fan now. Wait 'til next year.

I'm sad you for you, Mike. I know how much you love Quetico.

missmolly: "I'm sad you for you, Mike. I know how much you love Quetico. "

Thank God for the Boundary Waters, it's as close as I am going to get this year.

So, Canada thinks we will give the virus to a moose then the moose will pass it on to people eh?

It’s hard to imagine what life will be like if the RABC system was abolished. From my seat, it does seem to favor Americans more than a Canadian. I can’t imagine the impact it will have on Ely and Grand Marias businesses. And then you have the impact of everyone entering from the northern points. A very scary thought.

We shall see...

I did read today that Ontario is really restricting movement now with Covid raging up there. Sigh. Another BWCA trip for 2021...... :/

Bummer. Thanks for passing the info along. We were hoping to head into Woodland Caribou this year.

tumblehome: "It’s hard to imagine what life will be like if the RABC system was abolished. From my seat, it does seem to favor Americans more than a Canadian. I can’t imagine the impact it will have on Ely and Grand Marias businesses. And then you have the impact of everyone entering from the northern points. A very scary thought.


We shall see...


I did read today that Ontario is really restricting movement now with Covid raging up there. Sigh. Another BWCA trip for 2021...... :/"

As with 2020....I'd almost think Ely and GM will like that people can't get to Quetico at least in the short term. More visitors for the BWCA and more visitors coming to their towns and businesses. If the Q was open people would be driving across the border and spending money in Atikokan and such instead.

tumblehome: Sigh. Another BWCA trip for 2021...... :/"

Well that doesn't sound so bad. At least we do have the BW.

QueticoMike: "I was told today that I wouldn't be issued a RABC permit to get into Quetico this year. They don't see the border being open in 2021. They will be sending me a refund. They also don't know if they are going to continue with the RABC program in the future. So the only way to enter Quetico in the future if this takes place is that you would have to drive to one of the northern entry points. Just sad news all the way around."

Mike,

This is so interesting. My parents live in Florida and it is packed with Canadians this winter. I asked how they got in and I was told (take it as hearsay) that they just flew in. Ok, to fly they say...just can't walk/Drive/Paddle in. Hmmmm...I wonder what is true?

On another note, during my encounter with Canadian rangers last September, they told me that hoped the border would be open soon, because it is really the Americans that drive the Quetico Park Revenue.

Wharfrat.

RunningFox:
This Covid thing has been blown out of proportion. ... Yes it is deadly for some, but not the vast majority. Even without Covid, just living life - living your life - puts other lives at risk. Somehow we lived with that fact — really lived — before COVID.
"

Read this thread.
Who here has gotten Covid-19?

And then go up to each and everyone in that thread who has had the virus or know someone who has and tell them that this thing "has been blown out of proportion."

And, I hope you don't get it and suffer from it. Because there are a lot of people who it hasn't been "deadly" for but are still suffering and may have to endure it for the rest of their life.

Minnesotian: "Read this thread.
Who here has gotten Covid-19?

And then go up to each and everyone in that thread who has had the virus or know someone who has and tell them that this thing "has been blown out of proportion."

And, I hope you don't get it and suffer from it. Because there are a lot of people who it hasn't been "deadly" for but are still suffering and may have to endure it for the rest of their life. "

Most people don't die in car accidents. Doesn't mean we should do away with traffic laws and safety measures that the government has imposed. Wait a minute. Maybe that's why most people don't die in car accidents. That's all I have to say on this subject

Carving out border-restriction exceptions for Q paddlers might seem like a low-risk proposition but I'm sure that gets lost in the big picture. Really unfortunate, and another example of why we can't have nice things.

Wharfrat63: "

QueticoMike: "I was told today that I wouldn't be issued a RABC permit to get into Quetico this year. They don't see the border being open in 2021. They will be sending me a refund. They also don't know if they are going to continue with the RABC program in the future. So the only way to enter Quetico in the future if this takes place is that you would have to drive to one of the northern entry points. Just sad news all the way around."

Mike,


This is so interesting. My parents live in Florida and it is packed with Canadians this winter. I asked how they got in and I was told (take it as hearsay) that they just flew in. Ok, to fly they say...just can't walk/Drive/Paddle in. Hmmmm...I wonder what is true?


On another note, during my encounter with Canadian rangers last September, they told me that hoped the border would be open soon, because it is really the Americans that drive the Quetico Park Revenue.

Wharfrat "

I don’t know this for certain, but I believe the US/Canada border is only closed to Americans entering Canada. I believe Canadians are still allowed to travel freely as long as they immediately quarantine for two weeks upon re-entering Canada. Again, I’m not certain of this, but it’s what I was told this fall by someone in Grand Portage with more knowledge of the situation than me. That may explain why there are Canadians in the US on a non-work trip.

Tony

If you want to have a conversation about Covid, the appropriate place for it is the Covid Forum.

Jackfish: "If you want to have a conversation about Covid, the appropriate place for it is the Covid Forum. "

Fair enough, Pete. My apologies.

Mike

I wonder if and how any of this Canada/US border closing stuff will eventually affect the portages covered by the Webster-Ashburton Treaty? Any ideas or information?

Grandma L: "I wonder if and how any of this Canada/US border closing stuff will eventually affect the portages covered by the Webster-Ashburton Treaty? Any ideas or information?"

Funny you mention it GrandmaL, but I know back in September the participants of the Border Route Challenge were strongly encouraged to take the American portage whenever they came to a location with two portage possibilities (one on each side of the border). Back then, nobody was quite sure how intensely the Canadians were monitoring the border and they just wanted us to be careful. I remember scooting across bottle portage super fast as I was a little nervous since there is an alternate portage about a mile away by the American Ranger Cabin. I was also a little nervous on some of the border lakes as I wanted to stay on the US side of the imaginary line out of an abundance of caution.

There are numerous portages where there are two trails (one on each side of the border). A couple that come to mind...

1. Bottle portage
2. Prairie Portage
3. Lower Basswood Falls
4. Two of the portages heading up to Knife Lake from PP
I know there are more as I think there’s a couple on the Gunflint side (Granite River area comes to mind).

It will be interesting to see how these next few months play out. I was going to do my first Quetico trip this year, but it looks like I’ll be doing my 30th BWCA trip instead. No big deal, I’ll still be in my favorite place in the world!!!

Tony

Tony, I think back at the Border Challenge we were given poor information. Once on the trail some of our paddlers encountered Canadian authorities that said the use of the W/A portages was just fine. The Dawson portage is definitely in Canada and is not part of the old treaty - so it would require an RABC. Like you said - just have to wait for all this to play out. Who knows, by summer we might all be on home lock-down and I will have to paddle around the back yard.(haha)

It sounds like Canada needs to put a Canadian Border Services building in Cache Bay now.....

Wharfrat "
I don’t know this for certain, but I believe the US/Canada border is only closed to Americans entering Canada. I believe Canadians are still allowed to travel freely as long as they immediately quarantine for two weeks upon re-entering Canada. Again, I’m not certain of this, but it’s what I was told this fall by someone in Grand Portage with more knowledge of the situation than me. That may explain why there are Canadians in the US on a non-work trip.

Tony"

I'm a dual citizen and most of my familiy live in Canada. According to them, this is correct. However, they've just added the stipulation that you need proof of a negative Covid test within 72 hours of your flight to enter back into Canada.
Been a real bummer for me. Haven't been able to visit my family and there's no end in sight to the quaratine requirements.

I think Canadians and anyone entering New York State has to have a test within 72 hours before arrival and another within 72 hours after entry. Easier to enforce, record names, etc., if they enter by air.

Let's work the problem. How do we apply for dual citizenship?

At every hockey game they have the better national anthem anyway.

pswith5: "So, Canada thinks we will give the virus to a moose then the moose will pass it on to people eh?"

No, but Canada knows there are too many with such a cavalier attitude who will not exercise good, respectful judgement.

If the border is closed this summer, I will understand but will also be extremely bummed.

Minnesotian: "

RunningFox:
This Covid thing has been blown out of proportion. ... Yes it is deadly for some, but not the vast majority. Even without Covid, just living life - living your life - puts other lives at risk. Somehow we lived with that fact — really lived — before COVID."

Read this thread.
Who here has gotten Covid-19?

And then go up to each and everyone in that thread who has had the virus or know someone who has and tell them that this thing "has been blown out of proportion."

And, I hope you don't get it and suffer from it. Because there are a lot of people who it hasn't been "deadly" for but are still suffering and may have to endure it for the rest of their life. "

I hope you don’t get it either; I hope no one does.

Appears my post was taken down. Censored. What I’m trying to say is this: hundreds of thousands will go to the BW this summer. Q will likely be closed, but would receive one-tenth the number of visitors. So to close the Q seems out of proportion, but I respect Canada’s right to decide what they will.

Tell me, because I’m slow and insensitive, should the BW be closed as well? Probably would save lives if it were closed. If not, if it remains open, must I go to everyone who is adversely affected (infected) by the decision not to close it and personally apologize (because I’m for it being open)?

Can I have any say in the matter? Or do you own the proportion knob on this?

outsidethebox: "

pswith5: "So, Canada thinks we will give the virus to a moose then the moose will pass it on to people eh?"

No, but Canada knows there are too many with such a cavalier attitude who will not exercise good, respectful judgment. "

This!

Clearly, Running Fox, you do not get it-and you demonstrate having no intention of attempting to get it. In plain and simple terms, "you" pose a major problem for agencies who take their responsibility for the well-being of the general public seriously. Maybe plan your next journey to the wizard's castle and ask for a heart and a brain-and figure out how to use them. Otherwise, I believe you are in violation of what the spirit of this forum is about.

gopher2307: "Let's work the problem. How do we apply for dual citizenship?


At every hockey game they have the better national anthem anyway."

My bil and sil did that a few years ago. Learn french.

Did anyone else get one of these informative phone calls or did one of QMike’s neighbors/friends prank him/us?

Good question, Magic. We might have to do some checking since last fall it was "officials' who gave out the incorrect portage use information. Dang, we better double check before we get all uppity. (haha)
Remote Area Border Crossing information -website
Anything else documented?

MagicPaddler: "Did anyone else get one of these informative phone calls or did one of QMike’s neighbors/friends prank him/us?"

My trip buddy who lives in Texas received the call. They left him a message. I personally spoke to the rep. The only people they are calling are the people who had an RABC paid for already last year, did not obviously get to use the pass and were given the option of a refund or push it 12 months from when the RABC was purchased with a new RABC permit given to those who already paid for said RABC permit in 2020.

Since my 12 months were up and I was to be sent a new RABC, they called to tell me that they don't foresee the permit program taking place in 2021 and asked if I wanted a refund or no refund. I guess some people have chosen no refund for whatever reason. So they said they would send me a check. I asked if I could apply for an RABC if the border opens this year and he said it does not look like that will happen in 2021 and that is why they are offering the refund.

Then he went on to say he wasn't sure if the RABC program was going to continue once the border opens again. Sounds like they are still undecided on how they will proceed with this issue. That's all I obtained from the phone call.

That's a bummer, QM! I was hoping for a QP trip this year as well, maybe two, but neither are likely to happen now. I'll hope that things turn for the better by mid-year and this situation is re-assessed. Who knows? We have family up there as well and my wife and I won't be seeing them this year...unless they are in fact allowed to travel south to see us. No guarantees, I suppose.

thanks QM for the clarification. I was hopeful for better news - but maybe next year!

Dear Outsidethebox:

You win. Just a little about me for you to consider:

1) I always wear my mask when in public
2) I always avoid shopping when stores are crowded
3) I Have avoided all social gatherings, with the exception of my two adult children and two sisters
4) I want the vaccine shot for COVID; the sooner the better
5) 61 yrs. old now; zero speeding tickets in my life; no arrests ever; worked since graduating college and paid all my taxes; still working, not retired
6) same employer past 33 yrs.
7) sent BWCA.com cash last yr.; same with Friends of BW Wilderness
8) as sensitive as a rock

Stay safe and keep it cooling.

outsidethebox: "

pswith5: "So, Canada thinks we will give the virus to a moose then the moose will pass it on to people eh?"

No, but Canada knows there are too many with such a cavalier attitude who will not exercise good, respectful judgement. "

I understand your point and have frustration with many that flaunt the CDC guidelines but going to the Quetico is a wilderness trip. I have never been close enough to another person in Quetico to be considered “exposed” under the current CDC guidelines. The park is not well funded and depends on American dollars to keep it running. There is room to make an argument the park could be opened safely to Americans. It is annoying sometimes how some people act like Canada is the bastion of perfection. They make good and bad decisions just like every other country. They have every right to keep us out, but it is also okay to question the judgement of a government.

T

Problem solved.....Just take a helicopter across the border like this
Canadian’s Helicopter Border Crossing

Wait a minute that’s just for Canadian snow birds crossing illegally into USA my bad. Shhhh no one is suppose to know? Catch the return flight? Maybe?

I’m actually optimistic that the border will open by July or August. I think both countries want this and I look for the vaccine to be a big help. Glass is half full now.

I think so also about the border reopening. When We travelled to Brazil, we were told we had to have a malaria shot or was it yellow fever? Or both? Anyway, we did the shot at quite an expense as in the hundreds of dollars for both. I think anyone who can prove a covid vaccination shot will be allowed to enter if it was about 3 weeks after shot number two.

Jackfish: "If you want to have a conversation about Covid, the appropriate place for it is the Covid Forum. "

Good job Jackfish,
You should do LNT policing in the BWCA this summer!
--Goose

It really sucks if they discontinue the RABC program. I have been a base camper for 48 years, with only a couple loops under my belt. I finally decided to buy a bunch of lightweight gear, and new Northwind 17, with the intent of exploring the Quetico and WCPP, and now the borders are closed.

I was hoping to get to Poobah someday soon. I'm running out of years.

After all of the negative publicity regarding the lack of respect for the boundary waters this past season, I'm not sure I blame them for considering the end of the RABC program.

Jackfish: "If you want to have a conversation about Covid, the appropriate place for it is the Covid Forum. "

+1

bwcadan: "I think so also about the border reopening. When We travelled to Brazil, we were told we had to have a malaria shot or was it yellow fever? Or both? Anyway, we did the shot at quite an expense as in the hundreds of dollars for both. I think anyone who can prove a covid vaccination shot will be allowed to enter if it was about 3 weeks after shot number two."

All I read says the vaccine does not prevent one from carrying and spreading the virus. I think testing would show if an immune person were carrying the virus, so perhaps combination of vaccine and negative test results.