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tumblehome
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01/16/2021 07:31AM  
Sorry, just saying. Losing hope.

Pulling out the BWCA maps now.

Here'e why I think we're screwed

Tom
 
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mpswid0
member (45)member
  
01/17/2021 02:52PM  
I called and talked to the guys at Piragis the other day. They said that their contacts were saying that definitely not at the start of the season, and more than likely, not this year at all.

Matt
01/17/2021 07:05PM  
If you were the Canadian authorities, would you allow the teaming masses of Americans into your country in light of the high Covid infection rates, distrust of science, and inept vaccination policies of their populous?

I sure wouldn't.
Savage Voyageur
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01/18/2021 12:09PM  
I have said we are screwed to my fishing buddies last spring. They all said that no way will Canada be closed for 2020, and it was. I’m still holding to my prediction of the border opening in May 2022.

Border opening poll
MichiganMan
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01/18/2021 09:33PM  
Savage Voyageur: "I have said we are screwed to my fishing buddies last spring. They all said that no way will Canada be closed for 2020, and it was. I’m still holding to my prediction of the border opening in May 2022.

Border opening poll "


Thanks for bringing that thread up. I'm quoted in there as saying it would open Jan. 1. That didn't age very well. Apparently just wishful thinking on my part.
01/19/2021 08:27AM  
MichiganMan: "I'm quoted in there as saying it would open Jan. 1. That didn't age very well. Apparently just wishful thinking on my part. "


Many of us are doing wishful thinking--I'll continue to wish for an open Quetico in summer of 2021, but won't be surprised if my 2020 Quetico trip plans, which are now my 2021 Quetico plans, become my 2022 Quetico plans...

TZ
joewildlife
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01/20/2021 09:47PM  
We are screwed for early 2021 for sure. Several issues going on at the same time, as of today.

-the park is closed to backcountry camping
-the border is closed
-the word is no RABC permits will be issued for 2021
-possible that the RABC program will be eliminated entirely

However, I don't abide with all the gloom and doom predictions about how this will change things over the longer term, post 2021.

-the Ontario lockdown, which closed Quetico to overnight use, is only good for 14 days at a time. I'm hopeful the emergency will end as, eventually, people get vaccinated in Ontario
-I'm hoping the border will eventually open, possibly only to those vaccinated. And possibly sooner rather than later
-I hope and trust that if the RABC program goes away, something will replace it. Back in 2001, I crossed the border daily at the NW Angle I think it is called, the MN peninsula on Lake of the Woods. There was a satellite video phone that was used to call Canadian Customs. Seems like it didn't work, so we just called a phone number from the resort on the US side to get permission to cross the border on the lake and fish in Canadian waters. It would not be a HUGE deal to install a satellite system at the Quetico Ranger stations for Customs. Have some faith.

On a personal note, my Plan A was WCPP June 1. Not likely, so Plan B is BWCA with my daughter.

I was planning a Quetico Hunter's Island Loop in September with a buddy. Probably won't happen. So Plan B is a BWCA trip, probably a solo. I did my first solo in BWCA last fall (after 14 backcountry trips, always with my daughter or a buddy). It was awesome and I'd do it again.

2022 will be normal. It will all work out. US/Canada relations will improve with the new Administration and as Covid gets dealt with.

I do two backcountry trips a year. In 2020 they were both to BWCA, after not going there for 8 years. They were awesome trips. 2021 is looking to be a repeat. There could be worse things!

Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
You don't know what you got till it's gone.

Looking forward to June 1 regardless. September regardless. 2022 for sure.

Joe




PineKnot
distinguished member(2021)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
01/21/2021 04:40PM  
Hey, if snowbirds from Canada can flock to Florida for Covid vaccines, surely we can flock north for Quetico vaccines, right??



01/21/2021 09:35PM  
PineKnot: "Hey, if snowbirds from Canada can flock to Florida for Covid vaccines, surely we can flock north for Quetico vaccines, right?? "

Agree! Only fair.
billconner
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01/22/2021 07:05AM  
Fly to Atikokan and quarantine for 2 weeks in a tent.
01/30/2021 10:24AM  
With Quetico closed, the BWCA will once again be a zoo. No thanks.

So, I'll be out west again, far off-trail, fishing for cutthroat and golden trout--with no one around...
01/30/2021 12:47PM  
You can add to the list that Canada's rate of vaccination is woeful with no sign of improvement and rates of infection and deaths are far higher in the USA.
billconner
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02/12/2021 12:00PM  
Well, Canada's rate is about 1.5 times the world rate, so if they are woeful, I don't know what to call the majority of countries with a lower rate.

What's odd is that by many reports Canada has purchased - contracted for - more doses per capita than any other country. I wonder is it's because they are so darned nice and pleasant that they can't get delivery.

And let's not forget the Canadarm, eh?

joewildlife
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02/12/2021 02:06PM  
I don't think BWCA was a zoo because Quetico was closed.
It was a zoo because of all the first timers who needed a vacation and couldn't go to the beach or Disney World.

It wasn't that bad on my June 1 and post-Labor day trips in 2020.

Joe
02/14/2021 12:16PM  
joewildlife: "We are screwed for early 2021 for sure. Several issues going on at the same time, as of today.

-the park is closed to backcountry camping
-the border is closed
-the word is no RABC permits will be issued for 2021
-possible that the RABC program will be eliminated entirely

"

Curious as to where you obtained your information. Of course, true that the border is closed. However, backcountry entry points are open but unavailable to be reserved online or by phone. Permits are issued upon arrival, and the park is scheduled to open for Spring/Summer/Fall 2021 on May 21.

Talked to a border agent in Thunder Bay recently and he stated the directive is to hold off on accepting RABC applications until the border opens. Once the border opens they will accept RABC applications again. According to him, there are no plans to eliminate the RABC program entirely.

All speculation at this point, but speaking to some Canadian residents there is broad sentiment to leave the borders closed until there is "dramatic" improvement in the number of Covid cases. Hoping that after a few months of vaccine distribution and positive case data that the borders may open soon enough for a 2021 trip. As others have said, likely with the requirement to produce papers certifying you have no symptoms and have been vaccinated.

I appreciate that we have the BWCAW but after last year's experiences I'll opt for some bushwhacking & backcountry camping that takes me away from the where the crowds are.

tumblehome
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02/14/2021 02:20PM  
joewildlife: "I don't think BWCA was a zoo because Quetico was closed.
It was a zoo because of all the first timers who needed a vacation and couldn't go to the beach or Disney World.


It wasn't that bad on my June 1 and post-Labor day trips in 2020.


Joe
"


Agreed that the number of first-time campers was a big factor. All of the Q campers that had to do the BWCA certainly contributed to the numbers going up. I was one of them. Did two trips to the BWCA that required a permit. Two trips I would have done in the Q otherwise.

That said, The displaced Q campers only contributed to the numbers going up but not the riff-raff we saw or heard about.
Tom
joewildlife
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02/14/2021 07:40PM  
When I wrote that, Quetico was closed to backcountry camping.
The things I said about the RABC I read elsewhere on this forum.
Joe
BlackFly
member (9)member
  
03/09/2021 11:57AM  
arctic: "If you were the Canadian authorities, would you allow the teaming masses of Americans into your country in light of the high Covid infection rates, distrust of science, and inept vaccination policies of their populous?


I sure wouldn't."


Yep, nailed it. I also would be wary of the first timers who are bound to flock into the Q and screw things up as happened in BWCA. I took two trips last year, and the sheer numbers of people was enough to ruin it for me. Six portages in on the first day and no campsite. Geez.
cburton103
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03/09/2021 12:52PM  
BlackFly: "
arctic: "If you were the Canadian authorities, would you allow the teaming masses of Americans into your country in light of the high Covid infection rates, distrust of science, and inept vaccination policies of their populous?



I sure wouldn't."



Yep, nailed it. I also would be wary of the first timers who are bound to flock into the Q and screw things up as happened in BWCA. I took two trips last year, and the sheer numbers of people was enough to ruin it for me. Six portages in on the first day and no campsite. Geez."


The Q has certain barriers (higher cost, more regulations, an international boundary to cross from the closest large population centers) that make people “screwing up” the Q fairly unlikely. I share your disdain for crowds when camping, and that’s also what pushed my trips into Quetico. A few experiences of difficulty finding campsites in the bwca made me search for quieter waters to paddle. I’m glad they both exist. Some people, like us, are willing to wade through the extra hurdles.
03/09/2021 08:28PM  
The zoo-ishness of BWCA is a sad thing. My first trip there, I started counting the "floating dog shows," or sets of three boats containing nine humans (the max allowed I believe, and around seven or so too high in my opinion) and at least one dog. Lots of floating dog shows!

I'm enough of a curmudgeon to think that the level of humanity I've observed in Quetico is also too high for my liking. But not high enough to stop me going, not even close :)

Nothing against the dogs by the way; it's the multiple yapping humans that make it a dog show.
cburton103
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03/09/2021 10:06PM  
Luckee: "The zoo-ishness of BWCA is a sad thing. My first trip there, I started counting the "floating dog shows," or sets of three boats containing nine humans (the max allowed I believe, and around seven or so too high in my opinion) and at least one dog. Lots of floating dog shows!


I'm enough of a curmudgeon to think that the level of humanity I've observed in Quetico is also too high for my liking. But not high enough to stop me going, not even close :)


Nothing against the dogs by the way; it's the multiple yapping humans that make it a dog show."


Where have you seen too many people in Quetico? It’s odd for me to see more than maybe one group a day when I’m anywhere but the most popular areas (Falls Chain, North Bay, entry point lakes).
03/11/2021 07:06PM  
Yup, I guess I'm referring to entry point lakes. The trailhead at Beaverhouse lake can be full of humanity, and I actually had a "portage jam" between there and Quetico where a rather large Quebecois stumbled out of his canoe, stepped on my foldable kayak, and snapped the keel bar. Fortunately it was still paddle-able across to take-out!

Even a full day's paddle East on Quetico Lake, over two trips I have never not awoken in the hammock to the sound of voices -- early birds paddling on by in groups of two or three boats (I like to take a very long easy time in the morning). It's a reasonable level of activity, but I wish it were less. In similar large lakes in Alaska I've gone nine days straight without getting near enough another person to hear their voice (fly-in deals).

I no longer approach portages where I can see people, but you can't stop them from showing up and plowing through after you're committed. 99.99% of the time no one stomps on my boat and everyone is polite -- it's Canada, after all :)
cburton103
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03/11/2021 10:47PM  
Luckee: "Yup, I guess I'm referring to entry point lakes. The trailhead at Beaverhouse lake can be full of humanity, and I actually had a "portage jam" between there and Quetico where a rather large Quebecois stumbled out of his canoe, stepped on my foldable kayak, and snapped the keel bar. Fortunately it was still paddle-able across to take-out!


Even a full day's paddle East on Quetico Lake, over two trips I have never not awoken in the hammock to the sound of voices -- early birds paddling on by in groups of two or three boats (I like to take a very long easy time in the morning). It's a reasonable level of activity, but I wish it were less. In similar large lakes in Alaska I've gone nine days straight without getting near enough another person to hear their voice (fly-in deals).


I no longer approach portages where I can see people, but you can't stop them from showing up and plowing through after you're committed. 99.99% of the time no one stomps on my boat and everyone is polite -- it's Canada, after all :)"


Leave ‘em in the dust over a few portages and your problem will be solved 90% of the time in Quetico. I’m always amazed at how few people are there. But I’m usually in the southern and southwestern part of the park, so perhaps it’s less crowded down there as well (particularly the southwestern corner).
03/14/2021 10:43AM  
Luckee: "

I no longer approach portages where I can see people, but you can't stop them from showing up and plowing through after you're committed. 99.99% of the time no one stomps on my boat and everyone is polite -- it's Canada, after all :)"


If you are on a Q entry lake or most BWCAW lakes you would never portage if you waited until you never saw anyone :)

T
yellowcanoe
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03/19/2021 02:06PM  
timatkn: "
Luckee: "I no longer approach portages where I can see people, but you can't stop them from showing up and plowing through after you're committed. 99.99% of the time, no one stomps on my boat and everyone is polite - it's Canada, after all. :)"

If you are on a Q entry lake or most BWCAW lakes you would never portage if you waited until you never saw anyone :)

T"

There are some portages where you would LIKE to see people. Knee deep in muck. Aside from Pickerel, Quetico Lake is probably the most crowded lake I have seen on weekends.
 
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