I’m wondering if outfitters have any priority in the permit system? Would it be more likely that I would get a high-demand permit from them? I could see double reservations being made if we both try tomorrow. And how can they reserve all the permits that their customers want. They would need a lot of phone and computer users to be successful for most of their customers which seems impossible.

Fritty

It is my understanding that they do not get any special priority. I have heard previously from an outfitter that they run a phone bank most of the day to get the permits they need and want.

Mike

MikeinMpls: "It is my understanding that they do not get any special priority. I have heard previously from an outfitter that they run a phone bank most of the day to get the permits they need and want.


Mike"

I've heard the same. I don't believe they receive any special treatment.

From Lynn at VNO, I've learned that tomorrow is an incredibly busy day for them, on the phones and on the computers. But, it's not due to them getting any preferential treatment. They are simply calling in requests for customers who have contacted them during the months previous.

Yep, no preferential treatment, just many employees on the phone and no guarantee they can get all the permits their customers request. I would imagine that in situations where they have more requests for a permit than they are able to fill that they'd go by date requested . . . ?

I have reserved through an outfitter for an EP since I could not obtain via the direct attempt. Had I not called and if no one else tried for that day and EP, does the outfitter in question eventually just eat the cost and consider that the cost of doing business?

I don’t understand your question. The outfitter doesn’t reserve a permit unless a guest request it. Outfitters don’t/can’t reserve misc permits. There needs to be a leader and up to 3 alternate leader names and contact info.
If you had the outfitter reserve you a permit but ended up not doing your trip then I would hope you would pay the outfitter for that permit, the reservation fee and any cancel fee

Here is what did happen. Planned trip in July an or about July 1.

Went to permits and could not get a reservation for Lake One for the date desired.

Called an outfitter who had a permit according to them.

Got the permit and took the trip.

The question is: Had no one ever taken that permit, would the outfitter have lost their investment?

Possibly, I got a permit since someone cancelled and the permit was reissued.

Any other thoughts?

I would hope the outfitters would not be able to get a permit without names in hand...
Just can't reserve 20 permits and hope they fill them all.
How many permits can be reserved per phone call

bwcadan, That is seriously odd. The system is not supposed to allow leaders or alternates to be added to a permit after it is reserved. When you picked up the permit from the outfitter and took your trip, did it have your name printed on it from the system?

andym: "bwcadan, That is seriously odd. The system is not supposed to allow leaders or alternates to be added to a permit after it is reserved. When you picked up the permit from the outfitter and took your trip, did it have your name printed on it from the system?"

And who was the outfitter?

Even if it was a cancellation, I don't think cooperators are supposed to have priority access to those, either. From what I've read, the rate at which cancelled permits appear back in the rec.gov system is pretty erratic and not predictable enough to reliably game the system. Unless the cooperator accounts work in a different way than our user accounts.

I am going to lock this. If individuals have complaints, they can file them with the FS.