This spring after graduating college and before entering the workforce I am planning on circumnavigating the BWCA. More on the actual route is surly to come here but for now, we will keep things simple. Food.

We are planning on bringing around 2lbs of food per day per person with a total of 4 people. I estimate the route will take around 27 days to complete, sticking with 27 days of food, for now, to keep things simple that is 216lbs of food :). I am concerned about how we can keep our food safe from the common camp bandits, mice, squirrels, raccoons, and bears.

To provide a little background I completed a 28 day and 50-day canoe trip and had no issues with the packs sitting on the ground in the middle of the camp. But when I hiked the SHT and BRT I hung my food religiously. This was on the idea that campsites have camp thieves but the woods, in general, is pretty honest.

I have looked into blue barrels, UR sacks, Solid containers ( 5 gallon, olive, square buckets..)

Giving the background here are my thoughts.
1) Hanging 216 lbs of food seems like a marathon even in 50 lb loads
2) Having to acquire 2 blue barrel packs seems ok but I am exploring other options
3) Putting square buckets in the pack seems ideal but depends on pack and bucket specs.

Thanks so much!

Were it me, I'd try for resupply. Find a point like on Moose where an outfitter could drop off a pack or ask someone to just day paddle in to meet you.

I was trying to find out how much food by pounds fits in a blue barrel - 16 gal seems to be largest - all liquid that's 128 pounds. I'd guess food is near 1/2 to 3/4 as dense - so 60-70 pounds? About as much as I would carry on my back - so three barrels.

Use Cliff's stash method - split up food so no one essential ingredient not in at least two barrels - and stash far apart. Probably an extra portage trip for first half or so of trip but that's not bad for an epic adventure.

I still like resupply option. Maybe two.

Good luck!

Would there be any way to arrange resupplies with friends or maybe local outfitters along your route so that you wouldn't have to carry all of it the whole time? Obviously your assistance would have to enter the wilderness on a day permit at least in order to resupply you to keep everything legal since you wouldn't be able to leave the wilderness and reenter without having a new permit for that day+entry.

I certainly wouldn't want to carry all of that the whole time if I could get around it. If I *had* to, I guess my choice of container would be light-but-large food pack(s) and would deal with hanging them. As you empty them, you reduce the number of packs to manage unlike barrels which will continue to be a thing you'd have to deal with even when empty.

That seems like to much too carry from beginning to end.

I'd check with outfitters on the way. You could probably pay one of their staff to paddle out and resupply you.

Also to answer concerns I did 50 days with 8 people and no resupply 1,000 Lbs of food. This is a different sort of trip than a typical BWCA:)

theokbushman: "Also to answer concerns I did 50 days with 8 people and no resupply 1,000 Lbs of food. This is a different sort of trip than a typical BWCA:) "

So if you're anti-resupply....what are you asking? Yes that's a lot of food, it sounds like you've researched your options.

Blue barrels are easy and harnesses and packs are all over the place. Can hang or stash or depending on the site you're at that night you may not be able to hang. (burn with no trees, etc)

If you go with a bear-proof canister you'll run out of money and space before you fit that much food in them. Ursacks seem like a lot of effort as well but more possible.

I'm still pro-resupply but if you don't want to do it...I'd go with like....5 blue barrels or whatever that comes out to. Or plan on catching a lot of fish and take 3 barrels :)

theokbushman: "This spring after graduating college....
I am concerned about how we can keep our food safe from the common camp bandits, mice, squirrels, raccoons, and bears.
..."

To answer your question directly...
1. You do not need to hang food. See the threads on BWCA.com. A great many folks do not hang food and most sites don't have good hanging trees anyway. You can tie packs to trees to keep bears from hauling your food away. Bring a can of bear spray if you really want to defend your food.

2. Yes. Hanging 200 lbs of food each night seems like a lot of work.

3. Your biggest problem will be squirrels and mice. You can use blue barrels for that. I personally use kitty litter buckets. You can fit 2 in the bottom of a duluth pack. You can fit another one on top if the duluth pack is big. The kitty litter bucket will protect from rain and rodents. They also provide a nice chair and table. And you can stack empty buckets as you go through the food.

I spent a summer a few years back working for the Outward Bound school up there. We ran Kondos food packs with cardboard inserts inside plastic pack liners. Each food pack weighed on average 70 pounds.

So, three standard food packs would handle your trip.

Although we did hang packs, it was tough. You need a Z-drag and just the right tree.

Nice thing about running packs like this is when they're empty you can burn the cardboard and stuff the empty pack inside one of the other food packs (basic food packs roll down pretty small).

This way you reduce the total number of packs you need to manage on a portage. So while you might start out double or triple carrying portages, you can end the trip single carrying.

Barrels are great. I love mine, but even empty they take up space on your back.

Brian

I like the three blue barrels but Brian's point is good - still a barrel on your back. I would think you could use the barrels for other stuff as they empty, folding up other packs and stuffing them in the bottom.

And I believe it's illegal to burn cardboard or even paper outdoors anywhere in MN. Probably a law obeyed like speed limits. I refuse to say if I burn paper on the grounds it might incriminate me.

billconner: "I like the three blue barrels but Brian's point is good - still a barrel on your back. I would think you could use the barrels for other stuff as they empty, folding up other packs and stuffing them in the bottom.


And I believe it's illegal to burn cardboard or even paper outdoors anywhere in MN. Probably a law obeyed like speed limits. I refuse to say if I burn paper on the grounds it might incriminate me."

I believe you are correct Bill! I thought of this for a split second before I posted.

I certainly would not advocate any sort of lawlessness.

Like you, I can neither confirm nor deny that I have or have not burned any paper outdoors in MN!

Brian

You would need to do a re-supply of food. Family, friends or an outfitter could bring you more food for your group. I would suggest getting a Garmin InReach communications unit. As you are traveling you could alert your family, friends or outfitter on where and when you will be at a meeting point. And they could text or email back with messages. This would solve your problem of handling, hauling, protecting 200# of food during your trip. Family, friends or outfitter would just need a day permit, and you would not be violating your permit rules.

theokbushman: "Also to answer concerns I did 50 days with 8 people and no resupply 1,000 Lbs of food. This is a different sort of trip than a typical BWCA:) "

Yep. Not a problem.

4 guys. Three food packs. Two personal portage packs. One equipment pack and two canoes. That's 8 items to carry across the portage.

Even at the start you're only looking at double-carrying. And that's if nobody doubles up on packs or carries a pack plus a canoe. I don't think you're setting up any kind of extreme scenario.

Sounds like a great trip!

Brian

Just in case the OP decides to go the "hanging" route where trees permit on any given site. Sailing pullies and reflective guy-line rope from REI would help make this work. The trick to this is to run a line between B and C of about 12" in length. Then one ties a 25ft length to B pulley and the same length to C pulley. These run in 180 directions away from each other to two tree limbs, ideally about 25 feet apart. My system weighs about 12 oz and fits in a plastic zip lock bag. Don't forget the carabiner. This is similar to the z-drag system mentioned above---with a twist. Stashing can work well also.

If "circumnavigating the BWCA" means all 3 parts,
you will have 1 technical entry exit entries on the northern leg and 3 on the southern. Perfect resupply opportunities. The person I know spent around 40 days solo and resupplied. I do not know if you are against resupply, but it make logistics and gear handling simpler and safer.

butthead

butthead: "If "circumnavigating the BWCA" means all 3 parts,
you will have 1 technical entry exit entries on the northern leg and 3 on the southern. Perfect resupply opportunities. The person I know spent around 40 days solo and resupplied. I do not know if you are against resupply, but it make logistics and gear handling simpler and safer.


butthead"

Great summary of my initial thoughts! It sounds like the OP is set on carrying all their food in with them, so I'm not sure exactly what sorts of advice they seek, especially since they once carried 1K lbs. Maybe just a pat on the back for the endeavor and dedication to a lofty plan. Sounds like a great trip. Have fun and share how it goes with us.

BrianDay: "I spent a summer a few years back working for the Outward Bound school up there. We ran Kondos food packs with cardboard inserts inside plastic pack liners. Each food pack weighed on average 70 pounds.


So, three standard food packs would handle your trip.


Although we did hang packs, it was tough. You need a Z-drag and just the right tree.


Nice thing about running packs like this is when they're empty you can burn the cardboard and stuff the empty pack inside one of the other food packs (basic food packs roll down pretty small).


This way you reduce the total number of packs you need to manage on a portage. So while you might start out double or triple carrying portages, you can end the trip single carrying.


Barrels are great. I love mine, but even empty they take up space on your back.

Brian"

I maybe even was part of rigging a z-drag and pig rig or two with you.:) Yup, the pot-paddle-and pray can work. We would frequently have 400+ pounds of food on long trips. We would often line packs up next to a stout tree, tie them off, put paddles (aluminum/plastic) and pots on the packs as an alarm, and have that be our system. Just keep a clean camp. And I'll second the value of collapsing cardboard and hauling it out. Finishing a food pack is a nice checkpoint

That's right! The 'ol PPP for the win!

B

VaderStrom: "Great summary of my initial thoughts! It sounds like the OP is set on carrying all their food in with them, so I'm not sure exactly what sorts of advice they seek, especially since they once carried 1K lbs. Maybe just a pat on the back for the endeavor and dedication to a lofty plan. Sounds like a great trip. Have fun and share how it goes with us. "

Yeah, once they mentioned they've done this before I immediately failed to understand exactly what they want from us other than the attention.

mschi772: "

VaderStrom: "Great summary of my initial thoughts! It sounds like the OP is set on carrying all their food in with them, so I'm not sure exactly what sorts of advice they seek, especially since they once carried 1K lbs. Maybe just a pat on the back for the endeavor and dedication to a lofty plan. Sounds like a great trip. Have fun and share how it goes with us. "

Yeah, once they mentioned they've done this before I immediately failed to understand exactly what they want from us other than the attention."

Haha...why I asked what I did as well. "Dealing with 200lbs of food" as the title says does not sound like a trip I'd enjoy unless it was along the border where portages are fewer. Doing it with aluminum canoes and cast iron pans too?

For big trips in Alaska, where you definitely don't want bears, we'd use electric fencing. It's effective, but the FS in BW might not like it. It's pretty standard for Alaska river trips

MReid: "For big trips in Alaska, where you definitely don't want bears, we'd use electric fencing. It's effective, but the FS in BW might not like it. It's pretty standard for Alaska river trips"

Since you're at least as concerned about little critters, you can ignore, as it's still all on the ground.

I didn't intend to sound boastful in mentioning my other trip or my intentions for this trip, I just wanted to be clear that I have experience and I have a vague idea of what I am doing:). Yes, I have done something like this before, but it wasn't in the BWCA and not at standardized campsites which bring on the issue of animals accustomed to finding food with humans.

I do already have an idea of what I would like to do but I thought I would look here to validate and or explore more options. I really enjoy this form and there are so many creative and experienced people on here that I thought I would see if anyone has any additional suggestions that I had not thought of I really appreciate all of the ideas the ones that I especially liked are the Kitty Litter, Zdrag and the resupply.

I do not have any friends or family who live within 5 hours of the BWCA. I will consider an outfitter but as the narrative of this story goes we are college students I initially thought that cost would be a big factor but buying another pack would essentially negate the cost of a resupply. Since we are planning on walking at commencement and then leaving it might be difficult to get a load of food to the outfitter before we start, but that is my problem....... and kinda not a big problem

I like the fact that a resupply would make every aspect of the trip faster, portage, paddle, setup.

Thanks, everyone for everything it truly means a lot to me. I really appreciate the feedback.

I use 5 gal buckets with those "Gamma Seal lids"

I'm not saying they are anywhere near Bear proof, but they seal good, and no rodents have been able to get in.

Here is a pic of my set up, with the Nylon Duffle bag to carry them. I slip a thin piece of foam, in-between the buckets and pack, for comfort while portaging, and it serves as a seat cushion while sitting, around camp.

I'm not sure what a cost of a resupply would be...but if you had a barrel of food at say one of the outfitters on Moose or Saganaga already...a one way tow fee is like $30? Heck it might be less if you can just hitch it along with another ride they're giving. Way less then a pack. Or it's just a barrel of food, not a person plus gear plus a canoe which is what that $30 normally covers. Way less work on their end to haul a barrel or two of food and an empty back for you.

Or Sawbill you could paddle to the dock just about and still be legal?

cyclones30: "Or Sawbill you could paddle to the dock just about and still be legal? "

Not really. The landing is outside of the BWCA by almost a mile.

Sawbill Lake

The resupply could be accomplished without landing a canoe.

butthead

But you have still exited the BWCA if you go to the landing area as suggested.

One thing I like about the Ursacks or hanging a soft pack is that your food storage gets smaller over time. I just like the idea that you can speed up portaging as the food gets eaten. That doesn’t work quite as well if it is all in blue barrels or other hard sided containers. Variety is the spice of life and may help keep large or small critters from getting all of your food.

andym: "One thing I like about the Ursacks or hanging a soft pack is that your food storage gets smaller over time. I just like the idea that you can speed up portaging as the food gets eaten. That doesn’t work quite as well if it is all in blue barrels or other hard sided containers. Variety is the spice of life and may help keep large or small critters from getting all of your food. "

200 pounds - is that that like 15-20 ursaks, near $100 each? Good reasoning and solution. Good reason to resupply, unless you're going to do this a lot - like at least every other year. Of course doesn't work in hose places that require bear proof and don't accept ursak.

It would require a couple of cars stationed at a couple of entry points and multiple permit reservations, but perhaps least expensive, and does allow fetching a cold beer and fresh meat if so inclined. Does constrain schedule and route some, but one barrel and pack, fill it up, and go.

If I were doing this, I'd talk to my outfitter - for 25+ trips - and see who they might know who would bring a barrel to me in the wilderness on a day permit. Two way communicator and minimal disruption to schedule and route. Got to be people around there who would for a half day - a couple hours round trip and an hour paddle, do it for $150-200. Less than a barrel and pack cost I think. (I wonder if there's a market for a resupply service?)

Wondering is there is a way to stash supplies day before trip - like right on boundary but not in BWCA, and you're just reaching across, not leaving the wilderness. :) Or if it could fit in the regulations: "Only watercraft and equipment used in connection with your current visit may be stored and left unattended."

I want a report of what was done and how it worked.

We did a month long trip in Fall '99 - after blow down. Two adults and a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. I don't recall the weight of our food/dog food, but you can imagine. We always hang food pack w/ rope and pully system (easier to hang, can hang almost anywhere, & easier on trees). Lesson learned: food pack was way too heavy, and due to blowdown, often no place to hang. Also, regretted not having leather gloves along. Since, we often use bear vaults, the clear, relatively light weight 'barrels.'
I'd resupply, or bring a few sets of pulley/rope apparatus, or go to the bear barrels. The blue barrels are too heavy for me.

A previous post here mentioned a Kondos food pack. I’m sure most of you know the BWJ sells an insulated poly box liner that fits perfectly inside the Kondos pack. That’s what I have for my little 5-day trips.

While the box isn’t likely black bear proof, I can’t imagine too much trouble would be had with smaller critters. Interested in your thoughts if you disagree or have had any unfavorable experience with the poly box.

Resupply as the first 342 people suggested.

I'd have to think that once you work out your dates and route, that someone here might pitch in to help with the resupply on your grand adventure if it aligns with the start of their trip.

jhb8426: "But you have still exited the BWCA if you go to the landing area as suggested."

A good question for USFS Rangers. Along that line of thinking crossing the Canadian border on any border lake or using a Canadian portage would be illegal.

butthead

Bill Conner, I was suggesting a mix of methods but some of them soft sided. That could also be a pack to hang. Main point that if it is all blue barrels or such then you can’t fold things up over time.

Resupply is great but one resupply still leaves two packs worth of food. So for me, I’d still be looking at a variety of methods.

Multiple resupplies as you suggest would change things more but with the pros and cons you mention.

A different solution: Leave all your food on the ground somewhat away from your tents. Post a sentry and guard the food. If you are using 2 tents, the other tent mates would alternate nights with you. A 1:00 AM trade off would allow the on duty twosome to get adequate sleep while they were on duty. Bear spray and loud yelling or pans banging should discourage the rare intruder.

You're young and tough with plenty of time to make the trip; carry it all. Use 1 barrel and 2 packs. Hang 2 packs, keep the barrel close enough to protect in camp. Every day it will be easier. I prefer to be independent and not rely on someone else to get my food to me.

Your resupplier can get a day pass and bring it to you inside the wilderness area.

In the more than one way to skin a cat line of thinking:

Do you really need 2 lbs of food per person per day?

Granted, my trips are typically less than half the duration or your planned excursion but, I still plan my meals like a backpacker. I choose calorie dense food and expect that I might eat leaner than I might at home.

If you concede your appetite to a 2600 calorie per day intake and pack foods with a calorie density around 130 calories/oz, you'd be down to 20 oz per person per day. Your initial food burden would drop from 200 to 130-ish pounds.

Just tossing that out there... your trip, your plan.

Good travels to ya

I'd be interested in seeing your menu. I would not to resupply if this was my trip, but would figure how to pare down the food. That seems like a lot of food. 2 of is did 21 day trip, #45 lb food, no resupply and food leftover.

Would you be ok sharing your menu?

have done multiple month-long trips, some with re-supply, some not. much prefer the re-supply solution. its easy to carry 2 weeks of food, but 4 weeks gets heavy: possible but not as enjoyable.

have hung food, used ursacks, and now use blue barrels as my preferred method of critter-proofing. hanging is a big hassle and many sites don't have good trees, as others have mentioned. ursacks are great but expensive.

something to consider if you go the blue barrel route: is the barrel harness strong enough to carry a full 60L barrel? my last trip i had 3-4 weeks of food packed very efficiently into a 60L blue barrel. total weight was about 65 lbs. the stitching on my new granite gear barrel harness shoulder strap ripped out. was able to repair in the field and granite gear graciously sent me a new pack once i was back but they also told me that the pack is not really designed for that much weight. i can't speak to other brands of harness.

i have also had dry packs fail when carrying too much weight from food. so going without re-supply is likely to be less enjoyable day-to-day, with more risk of injury, and more risk of pack failure.

I am waiting for the onslaught of judgment but I used this for my big hiking trip and it served me well :). All items modulate but this is a general ballpark of my food weight. And yes my friends make fun of me for what I eat........I am quoted as saying food is fuel. Net weight is 33 oz

butthead: "

jhb8426: "But you have still exited the BWCA if you go to the landing area as suggested."

A good question for USFS Rangers."

So it would seem...

jhb8426: "

butthead: "

jhb8426: "But you have still exited the BWCA if you go to the landing area as suggested."

A good question for USFS Rangers."

So it would seem..."

The official boundaries of the BWCA are on most many/most maps which makes it pretty clear to me exactly where and when one officially enters/exits the wilderness.

butthead: "Along that line of thinking crossing the Canadian border on any border lake or using a Canadian portage would be illegal."

As most know, there is a treaty that addresses that very issue, and any border crossing that isn't part of necessary conveyance along a border route *would* be considered illegal. See recent discussions on this message board about people wanting to pop across to see pictographs.

Regarding how crossing the Canadian border as part of border conveyance would affect one's BWCA permit, I would apply the same rationale the treaty uses to justify why a BWCA permit would remain valid in those areas despite technically exiting and re-entering the BWCA from Canada. The BWCA permit system would fall apart if border trippers had to account for every re-entry from Canada with multiple entry permits. If one wanted to feel more confident, then they definitely should contact the USFS with such questions.

Voyager: "You're young and tough with plenty of time to make the trip; carry it all. Use 1 barrel and 2 packs. Hang 2 packs, keep the barrel close enough to protect in camp. Every day it will be easier. I prefer to be independent and not rely on someone else to get my food to me. "

I am with Voyager on this. The blue barrel will keep little critters and rain/bilge water away from a good portion of your food. Maybe bring 2 blue's. Don't bother buying one of those special barrel-carrying pack frames. Just throw the blue barrel sideways atop a canoe pack for portaging. I have ropes attached at the top and bottom of the barrel so I can control the barrel with my hands. Like this pic shows



Sounds like a great adventure!!!

BeaV: "





"

I love this image. If they ever cast a bronze statue of you for the town square this should be the pose.

Kitty Litter Buckets!!!?!?!?! I used to have a ton of those.... but no more cats, so no more buckets.

That is a great idea! Reduce, reuse, then recycle. I love it.

OCDave: "

BeaV: "







"

I love this image. If they ever cast a bronze statue of you for the town square this should be the pose."

My thought was "there's a neat trick!". I'll have to remember that for this upcoming season.

billconner: "Were it me, I'd try for resupply. Find a point like on Moose where an outfitter could drop off a pack or ask someone to just day paddle in to meet you.
"

This makes so much sense! But, your halfway point is more on the Gunflint Trail. Why not send a few boxes of food and fuel and maybe new underwear :) to an outfitter on your route? Maybe Gunflint Lake?

This way you can eliminate your garbage and resupply. Would cut your food volume literally in half and that's huge! Best of luck.

TomT: "

billconner: "Were it me, I'd try for resupply. Find a point like on Moose where an outfitter could drop off a pack or ask someone to just day paddle in to meet you.
"

This makes so much sense! But, your halfway point is more on the Gunflint Trail. Why not send a few boxes of food and fuel and maybe new underwear :) to an outfitter on your route? Maybe Gunflint Lake?


This way you can eliminate your garbage and resupply. Would cut your food volume literally in half and that's huge! Best of luck."

You would need someone to bring it to you in the BWCA, which I think Gunflint is not, or get a second permit.

couple comments on food for long range trips...

put together a menu, plan on eating well. your menu doesn't have to be original for every day of a 30 day trip, you can do a menu for 7-10 days, then repeat. as mentioned, calorie count, if you're on the move with many portages, 5000 calories/man. if you plan short days and sit around camp, then half that number. paddlers that lose weight on a trip did not eat well. print the menu, laminate it, it goes in a designated pack where anyone can find it.

do not buy prepared meals, put together your own with off the shelf food products, it's easy. prepared food packs are full of chemicals and salt, not healthy. when you shop the heck out of one of the big super markets, you realize that there are all kinds of things that are perfect for canoe tripping, inexpensive too. read the labels, know what you're buying.

remove food from the packaging it comes it, reduce both weight and bulk. vacuum bag and label each meal. the Food Saver bag is tough plastic and thermally welded, doesn't leak. each bag contains the complete meal, everything required right down to condiments and sheets of paper towels for cleanup. the labeling system system goes on the bags with black maker...B1, L1, D1, B2, L2, D2, and so on. anyone can find the correct bag for the meal in the packs.

weigh the food on a per day basis according to the labels, don't guess at the number. this helps you distribute the weight of the food between packs and allows the job to move along pretty fast. keep the list with you so that you can adjust weight in camp every few days. i favor 60L barrels, at least one per boat. they're secure, watertight, foolproof, and carry well with the right harness, need i say buoyant. this isn't the place for the usual tie-in-the-pack discussion, but lose your food, it's trip over. a fast and efficient tie in system loads the packs in the boat the same way every single time. i don't mind saying that i've been in the water more than once on long range trips, no fun, but even less fun if you lose a pack.

weigh the packs again when fully loaded with food and gear, it's surprising how much they can vary. some people just pack too much junk, now is the time to get rid of it.

i also don't favor resupply for a trip like this. with four men and good planning, it's not necessary. because of the food content, the packs are going to start heavy, make sure that everyone knows it. i advocate that paddlers load up a pack with significant weight and start hiking, even around the neighborhood is fine. everyone needs to be in shape, trip partners struggling and whining on the first portage can be annoying, and is no way to start a trip.

jdrocks: "couple comments on food for long range trips...
everyone needs to be in shape, trip partners struggling and whining on the first portage can be annoying, and is no way to start a trip."

I took 2 teenage nephews who never even camped anywhere before and it's not fun when the enthusiasm isn't there. Haven't done it since and sold my tandem canoe to only be in a solo now. Life is short, gotta do what ya gotta do. :)