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      New vaccine made from moths     
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Canoearoo
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04/29/2021 10:42PM  
There is a new vaccine coming out maybe late May. It's been grown with moths. Thoughts?
novavax vaccine
 
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billconner
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04/30/2021 06:01AM  
Thanks for posting that. So tempting to interject a comment about Mothra in light of other recent posts. (I assume others recall mothra sci-fi films.)
 
Canoearoo
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04/30/2021 08:39AM  
billconner: "Thanks for posting that. So tempting to interject a comment about Mothra in light of other recent posts. (I assume others recall mothra sci-fi films.)" I saw that movie in Science Theater 3000 LOL
 
Pilgrimpaddler
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04/30/2021 11:23AM  
billconner: "Thanks for posting that. So tempting to interject a comment about Mothra in light of other recent posts. (I assume others recall mothra sci-fi films.)"
Yeah, I'm old enough that I saw it in a theater when it first came out - one of the Godzilla series as I recall.
 
Bearpath9
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04/30/2021 12:06PM  
Maybe they caught the "Mothman."
 
billconner
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04/30/2021 01:01PM  
1964. Streaming on HBO Max. "Mothra vs. Godzilla"

Sorry Canoearoo. Couldn't help myself based on some of the other posts.
 
LarryS48
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04/30/2021 06:42PM  
The Novavax technology is very interesting. While the other vaccines get genetic material into you that instructs your cells to make the spike protein that triggers an immune response, Novavax treats moth cells so the moth cells make the spike protein. They then isolate the spike protein from the moth cells and use that in their vaccine. Seems like a very interesting technique. Seems straight forward. You want you immune system to see the spike protein. Novavax - inject the spike protein. The others - inject something that will cause your body to make the spike protein. So far the early results look good, but we’ll have to wait for the clinical trials to finish.
 
Canoearoo
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04/30/2021 09:06PM  
Thanks Larry! So it isn't RNA? It is DNA? Or am I way off
 
LarryS48
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04/30/2021 09:18PM  
No RNA or DNA goes into you. I am not sure how they get the moth cells to make the spike protein. Presumably that might involve genetic material. However, they then isolate the spike protein and none of the genetic material goes into people only the moth cells. For people that are afraid or worried about having RNA or DNA injected this vaccine is reassuring.
 
Canoearoo
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04/30/2021 11:37PM  
It is like the flu shot then?
 
LarryS48
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05/01/2021 12:04AM  
A variety of techniques are used to make flu vaccines. I am not sure if any of the flu vaccines use the protein sub-unit technique the Novavax is using for its COVID vaccine.

 
LarryS48
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05/01/2021 12:09AM  
How vaccines work.

When your body encounters a foreign protein your immune system learns how to attack it. So, the COVID vaccines try to show your body the protein on the outside of the virus. There are a number of ways this can be done.

1. Killed virus technique
Here you grow actual Covid virus in the lab and then kill it. The protein on the outside is still there. So, you inject the killed virus and your immune system sees the protein and learns to fight it. Some of the Chinese vaccines work this way. (The polio shot also works this way.)

2. Viral Vector technique
The Chinese pretty quickly were able to determine the genetic code of the virus. With this information in hand, companies were able to modify the DNA of some relatively harmless viruses (not the Covid virus) to include DNA the coded for making the spike protein. They also modified the DNA so it couldn’t reproduce. This modified virus is injected. When this gets into the muscle cells of your arm, the DNA makes RNA that then makes the spike protein and your immune system learns to fight it. The J&J, AstraZeneca and Sputnik V vaccines work this way.

3. RNA vaccines.
In this technique you inject the RNA that instructs the cells of your arm (where you got the shot) to make spike protein. Once again your immune system learns to fight it. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines work this way.

4. Protein Sub-unit technique
In this technique, you just inject the protein you want the immune system to see. This of course means you have to know how to make the protein. Chemist can make proteins but cells (even moth cells) are better at it than chemists. So instead of having all the DNA makes RNA which makes spike protein go on in your body, Novavax has it done in the lab by moth cells. Once that is done they separate the spike protein from all the other stuff and use it in their vaccine.

 
Canoearoo
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05/01/2021 09:31AM  
This is the best explanation I have read on the internet about this. Thank you
 
missmolly
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05/01/2021 10:55AM  
Thanks, Larry, for all the info. Are you a doctor/nurse/scientist/etc.?
 
LarryS48
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05/01/2021 11:10AM  
missmolly: "Thanks, Larry, for all the info. Are you a doctor/nurse/scientist/etc.?"

A retired organic chemistry professor.

Vaccines are not my field, but I have paid attention because of the pandemic and have enough background to hopefully understand what I read. The teaching part of my former job also helps you learn how to explain complex things so that many people can understand them.
 
missmolly
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05/01/2021 11:45AM  
LarryS48: "missmolly: "Thanks, Larry, for all the info. Are you a doctor/nurse/scientist/etc.?"


A retired organic chemistry professor.


Vaccines are not my field, but I have paid attention because of the pandemic and have enough background to hopefully understand what I read. The teaching part of my former job also helps you learn how to explain complex things so that many people can understand them.
"


I'm assuming you were a terrific teacher. I was a teacher too and then became a teacher of teachers.
 
Canoearoo
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05/01/2021 03:07PM  
I'm an esl teacher to Chinese students and I teach history in the summer with the historical society. Thanks again
 
Canoearoo
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05/04/2021 10:43AM  
I looks like novavax is trying to get approved for 12yr and up. I think having an option between 2 different shots for youth would be a great thing.


Novavax COVID-19 vaccine study now includes kids, company says
 
missmolly
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05/04/2021 11:38AM  
Canoearoo: "I'm an esl teacher to Chinese students and I teach history in the summer with the historical society. Thanks again "

Ah, a member of my tribe!
 
LarryS48
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05/04/2021 11:44AM  
Canoearoo: "I looks like novavax is trying to get approved for 12yr and up. I think having an option between 2 different shots for youth would be a great thing.



Novavax COVID-19 vaccine study now includes kids, company says "


Pfizer has already applied for approval in children 12-16. A decision could come this week. Moderna also has studies in progress. I don’t know how they are going but I suspect they will be the second company to apply for approval in children. As you point out, Novavax is working on this too. Usually the FDA wants to see good results in adults first. Novavax has good results in trails in the UK and South Africa for adults and their trials in the US are getting close to the point that we may see an application soon. Novavax will probably apply for approval for adults in the UK first and then other countries. I heard the chief scientific officer of Novavax say the the trials in the UK and South Africa were structured to obey all the recommendations the FDA has on how to run a trial. However, the trial in the UK had only 15,000 participants. The US trial has 30,000.

All of these companies are also working on new formulations that will target variants. There is also interest in seeing if booster doses might be helpful. There is only about eight months of data on how long the immunity from vaccination lasts based on people who got the shots in the original trials. So far, immunity is still good but there is a slight decline.
 
uqme2
member (39)member
 
05/05/2021 07:02PM  
Are there any known side effects to the mothy spike proteins like, oh I don't know, repeatedly banging your head into lightbulbs?

Where's Gary Larson when you want him?
 
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