BWCA Used canoes and sales tax/licensing Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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marsonite
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05/15/2021 01:37PM  
I'm going to be selling my Penobscot soon. I bought it from a neighbor a few years ago, and actually never got it licensed. Decided I don't have room in the garage.

I'm wondering, will the new buyer have to pay sales tax? I have a bill of sale from my neighbor. I'm wondering if I can just write another bill of sale to the new buyer, but maybe that isn't necessary. How does licensing a canoe even work?

TIA
 
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05/15/2021 04:26PM  
When licensing they would ask for proof of sales tax paid or they will collect that there. Unless things have changed... but I had to prove I paid it or I’d have to pay it to them.
 
jhb8426
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05/15/2021 06:08PM  
I've bought and sold a number of canoes from people, never had to pay sales tax. On the licensing, all you need is a bill of sale. There is a license transfer form on the MN DNR site for licensed boats. I've licensed 2 boats that came from Wisonsin w/o license w/o problems. Had bill of sale for both. I licensed a previously unlicensed boat prior to the sale to make it easier for the purchaser.

To transfer a boat license:
DNR Universal Registration Form
 
billconner
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05/15/2021 06:17PM  
I don't believe that sales tax is due on a private sale. Same as a tag sale. I bought used from an outfitter, they collected MN sales tax, and I had to pay difference between MN and IL when I registered it in IL.
 
05/15/2021 09:20PM  
In Missouri, no license for the canoe is needed and thus, no license necessary in Mn. if you use less than 90 consecutive days. I would treat my purchase like a garage sale purchase. I never have paid or collected a sales tax at any garage sale I have had or been to. I have even sold a car at a garage sale and only provided a bill of sale so that they could prove purchase when they licensed it. I also noted the time of day on that with a copy to my possession if needed should they have been involved in an accident after the sale. That was signed for my protection.
 
05/15/2021 10:18PM  
nctry: "When licensing they would ask for proof of sales tax paid or they will collect that there. Unless things have changed... but I had to prove I paid it or I’d have to pay it to them. "


This is correct. The boat can bought and sold privately but the state will need proof of sales tax paid or will require it when registering the boat. That doesn't mean that it's always processed that way...
 
R1verrunner
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05/16/2021 06:08AM  
It all depends on what state you live in.

Because you don't state that fact.

It is hard to answer the question.
 
05/16/2021 07:17AM  
Here in Wi I do not have to register canoes but I use to have to do it to take them to MN (no longer a rule). I had 3 to 4 different canoes that I had obtained through private sales and when registering in Wi they would ask to see to see bill of sale and collect sales tax.
If a canoe is sold privately multiple times but by chance its original receipt/invoice travels with the canoe (i know im not that organized in MY forward thinking), does that proof of the original sales tax count for the life of the boat?....no matter how many private sales it goes through?
Also, if a canoe has been previously registered, I assume that is some "proof" that the state has collected its sales tax on it somewhere along the line and the transfer option solves the issue. The question lies with the previously unregistered canoes.
 
marsonite
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05/16/2021 09:16AM  
R1verrunner: "It all depends on what state you live in.


Because you don't state that fact.


It is hard to answer the question."


Should have said Minnesota
 
spud
member (37)member
  
05/16/2021 11:28AM  
Since you said it is MN, I think some of it depends on the person you get at the licensing bureau.. I had fun trying to get a canoe registered that was given to us by a family member from out of state, but it had been registered back in the 80s when it had been used for a BWCA trip.. The family member that had registered it had also unfortunately passed on which made it even more difficult at that point..

The bill of sale I had provided to the clerk was not sufficient for her, due to the name on the bill of sale not matching the name of the last registered owner..

So my answer to your questions:
* No tax was needed for transferring a used canoe to a new registered owner
* The name of the bill of sale *may* need to match the name of the last registered owner. This makes sense I guess as if i sold a canoe that wasnt mine, the bill of sale really is meaningless..
 
05/16/2021 05:18PM  
R1verrunner: "It all depends on what state you live in.


Because you don't state that fact.


It is hard to answer the question."


You're right. Every state is different..
 
05/16/2021 05:35PM  
It really does in Minnesota depend on the license bureau and or worker. I think Hibbing or Virginia had some issues with it. And I haven’t bought a canoe for a few years now.
 
05/16/2021 10:08PM  
Personally I think registration of canoes is dumb. If there were a motor then fine but how is a canoe different from a paddle board or a tube going down the river? Sales tax on private sales too. Seems like overreach. Is there any real reason for the registration? Maybe I just don't get it and feel like it is pointless bureaucratics to impose a fee, but the whole process just feels like jumping through hoops for no good reason.
 
jhb8426
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05/17/2021 12:30AM  
A1t2o: "Personally I think registration of canoes is dumb. If there were a motor then fine but how is a canoe different from a paddle board or a tube going down the river? "


Totally irrelevant response to the question. The OP is not questioning the reasoning for registration or sales tax, but the procedures for dealing with the current regulations.
 
billconner
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05/17/2021 06:23AM  
jhb8426: "
A1t2o: "Personally I think registration of canoes is dumb. If there were a motor then fine but how is a canoe different from a paddle board or a tube going down the river? "



Totally irrelevant response to the question. The OP is not questioning the reasoning for registration or sales tax, but the procedures for dealing with the current regulations."


Who cares? Does not justify disrespect and criticism of another poster.
 
THEGrandRapids
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05/17/2021 11:02AM  
A1t2o: "Personally I think registration of canoes is dumb. If there were a motor then fine but how is a canoe different from a paddle board or a tube going down the river? Sales tax on private sales too. Seems like overreach. Is there any real reason for the registration? Maybe I just don't get it and feel like it is pointless bureaucratics to impose a fee, but the whole process just feels like jumping through hoops for no good reason. "


Paddle boards need to be registered & licensed too.... anything over 10'... I'm waiting for my one shot of ignorance.
 
billconner
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05/17/2021 12:02PM  
Can't find a very recent list of states requiring canoes to be registered. Latest I found was: The states you do have to register your canoe in are:

Iowa (>13')
Minnesota (>10')
Connecticut (>19.5')
Ohio
Oregon (not register, but "waterway access permits" required for >10')
Pennsylvania ("if used used at a Fish & Boat Commission access area or lake, or at Pennsylvania state parks and state forests; or required by the owner.")

From outdoortroop.com, and at least 3 years old because I deleted Illinois and Wisconsin which best I can tell stopped requiring registering non-motorized boats.

Corrections? Useful list to have around here.

 
05/18/2021 08:32AM  
THEGrandRapids: "
A1t2o: "Personally I think registration of canoes is dumb. If there were a motor then fine but how is a canoe different from a paddle board or a tube going down the river? Sales tax on private sales too. Seems like overreach. Is there any real reason for the registration? Maybe I just don't get it and feel like it is pointless bureaucratics to impose a fee, but the whole process just feels like jumping through hoops for no good reason. "



Paddle boards need to be registered & licensed too.... anything over 10'... I'm waiting for my one shot of ignorance."


Does that mean that a foam pad swim platform needs to be licensed too? Asking about the reasoning for the registration was a serious question though. What is the point or benefit to registering every canoe, kayak, and paddle board on the water? Following with the spirit of the law, shouldn't it be anything with a motor or other means of mechanical propulsion?
 
THEGrandRapids
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05/18/2021 09:26AM  
A1t2o: "
THEGrandRapids: "
A1t2o: "Personally I think registration of canoes is dumb. If there were a motor then fine but how is a canoe different from a paddle board or a tube going down the river? Sales tax on private sales too. Seems like overreach. Is there any real reason for the registration? Maybe I just don't get it and feel like it is pointless bureaucratics to impose a fee, but the whole process just feels like jumping through hoops for no good reason. "




Paddle boards need to be registered & licensed too.... anything over 10'... I'm waiting for my one shot of ignorance."



Does that mean that a foam pad swim platform needs to be licensed too? Asking about the reasoning for the registration was a serious question though. What is the point or benefit to registering every canoe, kayak, and paddle board on the water? Following with the spirit of the law, shouldn't it be anything with a motor or other means of mechanical propulsion?"


Revenue generation / funding. I don't understand what you mean about the spirit of the law and how that changes with non motorized vs motorized. I would think usage is usage. The fee structure already reflects the difference between watercraft size. Government has a right to manage the land / water they have under their jurisdiction. If there were no public boat launches, many "public waters" would be private as they have private land completely surrounding. The foam pads? They are not a watercraft. They would probably be considered a swimming raft, which left overnight, would need a county permit issued by the sheriff, similar to mooring buoys, which last time I bought one was $5 and you had to have a permit number on it, but if removed from sunset to sunrise, do not need any permit.

As far as taxing between two private parties.... that doesn't make any sense. I buy stuff all the time from "private" companies. I'm still subject to sales tax. Do I think its an aggressive stance by MN? Yes, but that's how the laws are written. Everything is subject to sales or use tax between any parties, unless its specifically carved out by a MN sales tax rule. Its just a matter of how the state can enforce collection, and one way they can do it is if an item needs to be registered they have a mechanism to collect the tax. I've had to prove sales tax was paid on a used canoe.
What is interesting, is the watercraft used only for duck hunting do not need to be licensed. The duck hunters must have had good lobbying.
 
billconner
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05/18/2021 05:06PM  
When IL switched from registering non-motorized boats to requiring a "usage stamp", it included inner tubes. It took about a year to get that fixed iirc, and I'm not sure it was ever enforced. May have applied to air mattresses, I just don't recall.

I'm with don't register non-motorized vehicles, canoes, kayaks, bikes, skate boards, gliders, and so on. Motorized are generally faster, noiser, and worse on environment.
 
jhb8426
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05/18/2021 06:01PM  
This has strayed so far from the OP's original question...

We've been down this bottomless pit before.
 
THEGrandRapids
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05/19/2021 10:18AM  
jhb8426: "This has strayed so far from the OP's original question...

We've been down this bottomless pit before."


I'm not seeing this stray very far from the question. Other than a couple people that don't think MN should tax non retail sales, its all been about taxing watercraft and what you need to do- which apparently differs depending on who you get at the licensing place.
 
marsonite
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05/21/2021 04:47PM  
Well to answer my own question, we got it licensed and no sales tax was charged. My wife claims that sales tax is only collected once, and if the agent wanted to be a stickler they could ask for proof that the tax had been paid when it was originally bought back in 1981. It's on Craiglist in the Twin Cities.


Penobscot
 
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