I made my first trip to the BWCA with the scouts in about 1984. In 1989, I started leading my brothers on trips and I am sure that I have led more than 20 trips over the years. We have always used the method of paddling out to the middle of the lake and dipping a nalgene bottle arm deep to fill up a collapsible 5-gallon jug. We have never experienced giardia because science tells us that the giardia spores are heavier than water and sink. So fetching water in the middle of the lake is safe.

Does anyone else use this method anymore?

By the way, I used to be very active on this site more than 10 years ago. This is my first post in a long, long time.

Welcome back. I spent the first 30 years tripping and dipping. Now, it's all gravity filtered.

BTW, I'll sit back and wait for the comment that there is far less giardia at the water's surface as the sunlight kills it...

I still dip and sip on larger lakes when the need arises.

For most places like you discribe, we use a Steri-pen. For more suspect places we have a pump filter.

One story that has always stuck with me was from a Ranger while we were in Grand Teton NP. He came across a family swimming in a pool below a waterfall. As he climbed the trail to the top of the falls, he came across a deceased moose rotting in the water just at the top of the falls. His point was that you need to know the source of your water or be careful of your usage. While giardia may not float near the surface of the water, many other microbes do.

I dip and sip on large lakes if I need to. I generally carry enough water so that the need rarely occurs. I did quite a few dip and sips last year during the border route when I was traveling 30-40 miles per day. I would sometimes run out of filtered water on a large lake and just dip and sip. Knock on wood, I’ve yet to experience giardia’s wrath.

Tony

My Platypus 4L Gravity filter is easier to use than paddling to the middle of the lake.

During a day of paddling, I feel obligated to use the Lifestraw my kid gave me for Christmas.

Today's filters are so light, compact and easy to use, there is really no reason not to filter.

Every now and then

schweady: "Welcome back. I spent the first 30 years tripping and dipping. Now, it's all gravity filtered.
"

Why did you switch to filtering?

I have no problem drinking straight out of a lake if I run low on water. I normally filter my water but if I run out I will dip in the middle of the lake.

I've been known to dip.

On solo trips, I filter water at the campsite each evening/morning. If I run out during the day, I sometimes filter and sometimes dip/sip. I have never had any issues. I also started doing BWCA and further north trips when I was just 13 and we never treated water and never had an issue.

On trips with my husband, he has to treat everything he drinks. He is very prone to picking up parasites wherever he travels. His system is super sensitive. So we use a Steripen during the day if we run out of the water we filtered at the campsite.

I was showing an old reenactment film about the voyageurs to my students last week. In a couple scenes, a voyageur leans over and dips his bone cup into the lake and then drinks it. The kids gasped and said, "What is he doing?!" I explained that people used to just drink from lakes and rivers. They didn't have other ways to get water easily. They couldn't imagine it.

I am getting the sense that most people do not fill up their 5 gallon jug in the middle of the lake. Is my water gathering method prehistoric?

I have always filtered. If my filter broke or was lost, then I would boil my water. If there was a fire ban on and I didn't have enough fuel to boil my water, then I would gather water from the middle of the lake. I have never had giardia, but I have heard stories from other people and learned from them to avoid it if possible.

Welcome back Bromel...it’s been a while.

We dipped from the lake for many years...same philosophy as you. The gravity filters are just too easy now so I switched. Also I started bringing my kids and when you are responsible for a little one I get a little more paranoid. The filter also removes pollen particles that are in the water sometimes. The dipping strategy is sound though.

We still dip our nalgenes in the middle if we run out away from camp.

I filter for my own health reasons but I'd love the freedom to dip mid-lake. I traveled with a couple of guys in a far northern park who used to take a 5 gallon bucket and dip that mid-lake for in-camp drinking and cooking. It was quite an adventure filling that bucket in on a windy lake one day in an unloaded Northwinds 17. We nearly dipped and flipped!

We could settle this with science, but that would put the kibosh on one of our perennial debates, on par with hang vs. barrel, hang vs. tent, innie vs. outie, etc.

Scientifically, a lab funded by infrastructure stimulus funds would receive our voluntarily collected samples and then report the incidence of giardia. (Canoeroo does water clarity testing for the DNR by dunking a white disc, so volunteer sample collecting has a successful history).

Seriously, we need to provide paddlers with accurate information on clean water. Several years ago a pair of experienced canoe campers windbound on Alton Lake died of exposure after capsizing (they were wearing PFDs). Their diary said they had run out of filtered water the day before. They tragically believed they had to filter the water in midlake. They put out into huge waves with their filter and bottles, never to return. "You can never be too careful" says the old maxim, but in some cases it's not true.

I had the big G. Wow, that was quite the experience. Can’t think of another way to put it. Some words come to mind, but let’s leave it there. I have scooped from the middle of a big lake with no problem, but will always treat water by the shore. My undoing, and I remember it exactly, was I dipped a cup in some quiet water by a campsite to brush my teeth. I remember thinking at the time, dude, you dumbass, you shouldn’t have done that. We had clean water but I wasn’t thinking. Oh man, it caught up with me about ten days later. Weird thinking you have a parasite inside you. I knew I had it, let’s just say the symptoms are, well, uncompromising. Went to the doc, ate 4 huge pills all at once and that did the trick. Never again!

Giardia twice-both from river systems, once I think my iodine pills were too old.
Also along a shore where wind blows all the fine stuff in your more likey to get it.
Lost 10 pound each time.

I dip at least once a trip

Have dipped for over 50 years with no problems. Was told by a biologist years ago that giardia is heavier than water so it’s more of a problem in running water, not really a problem outside of that unless your very close to a beaver home. Only started. Filtering in the last 10 years or so using a gravity filter in camp just to remove pollen and things like that (mainly because it’s easy), but often still dip while in the canoe once I run out of filtered water. For me, unfiltered water tastes better for some reason. I’ve never become sick, nor has anyone I’ve been with.

I have never had a problem dipping in the bwca. I dipped for probably 40 plus years, before we started using a gravity filter. They're so easy, but I still dip once in a while.

I dipped through the ice on white bear lake once however, and was sick for a week. It was coming out both ends. Not good.

Done 87 long trips.
Just as many or more day trips.
Been to over 500 lakes & drank straight from every one of them.
Everyone I've travelled with has done same, on my advice.
I keep a cup tied to canoe and stay super hydrated throughout trips...I pee twice on almost every portage, and never feel better than on a trip.
Filter NEVER !

I started dipping in 1966. It was the way it was done then. I dipped exclusively for sixteen years. Then life took me away from the BWCA and Quetico. When I returned filtering was the thing to do. I now filter water at camp. However, I also carry a cup under the flap of a pack so I can dip when I am paddling.

My father drinks straight from the lake all the time. I'll do it here and there. Never been sick. I prefer going out a ways to get water if I do that though.

I'll never dip and sip. There's too much risk for that. We always have 2 filters on trips, a gravity for in camp and a pump when traveling. It only takes 5-10 min to fill everyone's water bottle.

Last year, we ran into a couple guys on Missing Link and saw them dipping and sipping right at the portage landing we had just departed from. I cringed a little thinking about the muck we had just stirred up from loading the canoe and shoving off.

I do dip out of lakes and streams, but with a Lifestraw bottle that has a built-in filter. It's a little hard to suck through, but worth it for the peace of mind. I bought it to keep in my little fly fishing pack that I use for long hikes into remote streams, but it's also handy for canoe trips. For larger volumes of water in camp, it's gravity filter all the way.

I had Giardia once, it is to be avoided.

I was climbing in WY, coming down a glacier at the end of a long day, tired and out of water. I didn't have a stove or filter on me, they were both back at my camp. I found a clear drip coming off some ice, and filled up my bottle. A week or so later I found out that even clear ice cold water high on a remote mountain can be contaminated.

I started out in the same time frame as you and doing essentially the same thing, again with no problems. When I started bringing my wife, she was much more fastidious and insisted on a filter. Now I use that all the time in camp. I'll still take a drink while paddling in the middle of a clear lake. Never had any illness issues either way.

Always dipped, never filtered

Gravity filter in camp. It is a Katydyn basecamp modified to use a Sawyer filter. It is so easy to have lots of water in camp. It is much easier than paddling out in a canoe.

But I also dip in the middle of cold, deep lakes. I dunk my nalgene below the surface. I don't get floating stuff or sinking stuff. I enjoy dipping...

I will whenever possible. using common sense, of course.

Mad_Angler: "Gravity filter in camp. It is a Katydyn basecamp modified to use a Sawyer filter. It is so easy to have lots of water in camp. It is much easier than paddling out in a canoe.


But I also dip in the middle of cold, deep lakes. I dunk my nalgene below the surface. I don't get floating stuff or sinking stuff. I enjoy dipping..."

Always filter in camp. But on a long travel day when the water runs out and I'll dip in the lake.

I'm not really worried about giardia; it's fluoridation that bothers me. Fluoridation saps and impurifies all of our precious bodily fluids.

I still fill a water bladder away from the shore if on a lake. If the lake is shallow, or I'm camped on a river, or filling from shore, I will boil or filter.

There are also a few places like Nina Moose Lake where you can find a natural spring and get ice cold water... That is a favorite.

I went many years dipping, then I married a public health nurse and we've been filtering ever since. I've not had Giardia, but I have experienced both amoebic dysentery and cryptosporidium, and both were entirely unpleasant. So I'm alright with filtering. In a pinch I'd dip and sip as many above have described.

Mike

I grew up dipping. Have continued to dip exclusively for the past 45 years, four trips a year. Got the Big G once, not fun but over it as soon as on meds. No other problems.
We keep cups hooked to the packs and dip as we paddle on big lakes. On our last lake we simply grab our pots and containers out of the pack at the last portage and fill them mid-lake once we have our campsite picked out. I keep thinking of filtering but am just not there yet.
Perhaps I am a slow learner..................

I don't quite get the "dip and drink" guys. We take Sawyer filter bottles with us when under way. We dip those as well, but there is a filter inside. No more effort then those with no filters.

It can't be from filtering being more work. Why not insure you are drinking clean water when there is no more work involved then "straight piping"?

In camp, it is silly to paddle out to the middle of the lake and dip and pour into a 5 gallon container. We bring three Platypus filter systems. . .two four liter and one six litre. We fill all three dirty bags in clear areas from the shore, then hang to filter the water. No paddling out in lakes that may be windy or choppy, and as simple to use as a faucet at home.

Argo: "


I'm not really worried about giardia; it's fluoridation that bothers me. Fluoridation saps and impurifies all of our precious bodily fluids. "

Nano RFID chips today now, too.

We dip as/if the one liter bottles I buy for each person run out. The bottle should keep dehydration away for a normal entry day for us with not so long at traveling to our camp. After setting camp and the gravity filter system, we each use our own marked bottles for daily drinking and wash them out every day or so with boiling water to keep germs at bay. On the way out, we fill the bottles before we start paddling with filtered water if the need is likely.

ockycamper: "We take Sawyer filter bottles with us when under way. We dip those as well, but there is a filter inside. No more effort then those with no filters.

We fill all three dirty bags in clear areas from the shore, then hang to filter the water. No paddling out in lakes that may be windy or choppy, and as simple to use as a faucet at home."

+1 Sawyer bottle when paddling or fishing and a gravity system in camp.

plexmidwest: "Always dipped, never filtered"

Smart man

ockycamper: "I don't quite get the "dip and drink" guys. We take Sawyer filter bottles with us when under way. We dip those as well, but there is a filter inside. No more effort then those with no filters.


It can't be from filtering being more work. Why not insure you are drinking clean water when there is no more work involved then "straight piping"?


In camp, it is silly to paddle out to the middle of the lake and dip and pour into a 5 gallon container. We bring three Platypus filter systems. . .two four liter and one six litre. We fill all three dirty bags in clear areas from the shore, then hang to filter the water. No paddling out in lakes that may be windy or choppy, and as simple to use as a faucet at home."

Because we always have.
Staying super hydrated is better than anything .
I drink more water in BWCA / Quetico than anywhere I go.
Tripped with hundreds who've done same....none sick ever.

I'm a dipper.

timatkn: "Welcome back Bromel...it’s been a while.


We dipped from the lake for many years...same philosophy as you. The gravity filters are just too easy now so I switched. Also I started bringing my kids and when you are responsible for a little one I get a little more paranoid. The filter also removes pollen particles that are in the water sometimes. The dipping strategy is sound though.

We still dip our nalgenes in the middle if we run out away from camp.


"

Looks like you've researched the do's & don'ts thoroughly! :-)

I have, and use, a Sawyer gravity bag but, I don't have a problem dipping out from shore on most lakes; which i do fairly frequently.

My first trip in the mid 90's the owner of the outfitter we used advised that we drink like the Voyageurs....He then proceeded to explain to us that we should dip our entire paddle in the water, pull it out of the water quickly then hold the paddle high in the air with the blade just above your mouth and let the water run down the length of the paddle into your mouth. I haven't used this outfitter for years but he is still in business, I'm guessing his "drinking water in the BWCA advice" has changed over the years. I don't recommend this style of drinking water collection, it gets your shirt too wet.

I usually filter/steri pen but not afraid to dip and sip on a large lake.

Yes

Stumpy: "Done 87 long trips.
Just as many or more day trips.
Been to over 500 lakes & drank straight from every one of them.
Everyone I've travelled with has done same, on my advice.
I keep a cup tied to canoe and stay super hydrated throughout trips...I pee twice on almost every portage, and never feel better than on a trip.
Filter NEVER ! "

Similar experience and never a water-borne illness for me or my trip mates. We always gather water well away from shore. For camp we gather water just prior to reaching the campsite or when we are out in the canoe for other reasons. The most common maladies I have seen on trips are due to dehydration - headaches, fatigue, and constipation. Who wants a headache on a canoe trip? One method to easily keep hydrated is drinking off your paddle as you cruise along (bent shaft paddle is more challenging than straight). I used to bring a filter for emergencies and finally took it off the list. The fewer items I bring, the better the trip, IMO. Simplicity. I have tripped with a few people who used filters - if that makes them happy, great.

Michwall2: "For most places like you discribe, we use a Steri-pen. For more suspect places we have a pump filter.


One story that has always stuck with me was from a Ranger while we were in Grand Teton NP. He came across a family swimming in a pool below a waterfall. As he climbed the trail to the top of the falls, he came across a deceased moose rotting in the water just at the top of the falls. His point was that you need to know the source of your water or be careful of your usage. While giardia may not float near the surface of the water, many other microbes do. "

Was on a family trip on the north shore of lake superior in the 60's.

Stopped to visit a old trapper that lived there.

He told the story of getting their drinking water from the river in front of their home.

One spring it started to taste kind of funny after a couple of weeks. He followed the river up stream.

To find a well rotted moose laying in the river.

Bromel: "I am getting the sense that most people do not fill up their 5 gallon jug in the middle of the lake. Is my water gathering method prehistoric?"

I’ll do that. After setting up camp I’ll take the empty canoe out and load my water bags and bottles. I’ve used a steri pen for the last 6-7 years when solo. Last fall I came home from a 10 night trip and got giardia. It’s pretty bad.

It could have come from a long travel day through mainly shallow lakes. I keep a cup bungeed to my seat and have no problem dipping out in the middle of lakes as we pass through. This time I was out of filtered water and it was getting late in the day so I drank a lot from Lunetta Lake that was 15 feet in the area I was at.

All that said, it could have come from Buck Lake as there was a daily beaver swimming around camp for the 3 nights we stayed there. Giardia is not good. I couldn’t work for 2 days and thankfully a prescription cleared it up. I’ve described it like “peeing out of your butt at 50 psi”. :)

Still don't get it. We "dip" our water bottles in the lake just as those in this thread. Difference is there they are Sawyer filter bottles. We save the time and effort of taking our group water containers to the middle of the lake to fill up by using Platypus 6 litre gravity filters.

There is no time or convenience savings when under way as both systems "dip". There is significant convenience and time savings using gravity filters.

Only one approach guarantees to giardia.

If you're going to dip and sip, why not do it with something like the katadyne be free, just dip and sip with a filter. Seems like a no brainer.

Not only do I risk my existence by drinking directly from lakes I further endanger my life by securing this water far from shore by utilizing a canoe. Live dangerously!

Bromel-

We have been doing that exact same thing for decades! We jokingly refer to it as "the cholera bucket"...works like a champ! we just go out in the middle of a big, deep lake...

I will suggest this, if you have even the slightest inkling you may have sipped some bad brew, don’t go all in on Mexican fajitas, rice, beans, tortillas, peppers... about a week and a half after said suspected violation. You will have a night you will never forget...

Cheers, scat

Banksiana: "Not only do I risk my existence by drinking directly from lakes I further endanger my life by securing this water far from shore by utilizing a canoe. Live dangerously!"

Right on!

Travel days or out fishing, I just dip and fill mid-lake. Around camp (shallow water), I filter it.

Like you, I always got my water from the middle of the lake. Probably for about 30 years as well. Never had an issue. However, about 10 years ago when I brought my sons up for their first trip, I added a Sawyer gravity filter to my pack list. It falls into the better safe than sorry category. That said, I would not hesitate to dip into the water in the middle of the lake if I needed a drink and my Nalgene bottle was empty.

Years ago I started using a cheap filter. I think it was where it said it filtered tape worm eggs or something to that matter that kept me filtering. Drinking from a lake isn’t a big deal, but seeing first hand the effects of guardia and such keeps me packing a filter. Even water from the middle of the lake eventually clogs a filter. So I’m good with filtering. Just not a big deal either way.

Straight from the lake never filtered. We even compare how each lake taste from lake to lake. Why would I ever deprive myself of drinking lake water that is clean enough to drink, that's one of the best parts of the BW/Q experience.

fishnfreak: "Straight from the lake never filtered. We even compare how each lake taste from lake to lake. Why would I ever deprive myself of drinking lake water that is clean enough to drink, that's one of the best parts of the BW/Q experience."

Agree

MNGreene: "

Stumpy: "Done 87 long trips.
Just as many or more day trips.
Been to over 500 lakes & drank straight from every one of them.
Everyone I've travelled with has done same, on my advice.
I keep a cup tied to canoe and stay super hydrated throughout trips...I pee twice on almost every portage, and never feel better than on a trip.
Filter NEVER ! "

Similar experience and never a water-borne illness for me or my trip mates. We always gather water well away from shore. For camp we gather water just prior to reaching the campsite or when we are out in the canoe for other reasons. The most common maladies I have seen on trips are due to dehydration - headaches, fatigue, and constipation. Who wants a headache on a canoe trip? One method to easily keep hydrated is drinking off your paddle as you cruise along (bent shaft paddle is more challenging than straight). I used to bring a filter for emergencies and finally took it off the list. The fewer items I bring, the better the trip, IMO. Simplicity. I have tripped with a few people who used filters - if that makes them happy, great. "

Great to hear MNGreene !
I guess I have had a few That I've lead who decided to filter, but only a few.
Had a guy with intense head aches mid trip, I'm convinced it's because he was dehydrated.
Nice to hear from you...been a long time.
Am I wrong, or are you the only other guy I know who's been to Roulston Lake North of Delahey ?.... Or was it that no-name North of Veron.... or both ?

I'm a dipper

So the logic is I have never become sick so I am going to keep drinking water straight from the lakes. . .even though you can stay just as hydrated with a water bottle/filter system. . .all because I have always done it that way?

Sounds like the argument that I don't where a seat belt when in the car and have never had an accident. Or, don't where a helmet while biking and have never had an accident. Or, I don't wear a PDF because I can swim

Everyone is free of course to make those choices. However there is only one way to insure in the group comes back without giardia and that is filtering.

We take multiple groups up each year. Basically only two rules. PFD's on and secured every time you are on the water. And everyone brings personal filtration bottles or uses the gravity filter systems that we have in each of our camps.

ockycamper: "

Everyone is free of course to make those choices. However there is only one way to insure in the group comes back without giardia and that is filtering.



"

Always swim with your head above water!

The comparison to PFDs, seat belts and bike helmets does not seem to ring true to me. Those are things that kill people every single day. While you may contract an illness from bad water it won’t kill you.
I am a life long exclusive dipper so am biased I am sure. I often wonder if after all my trips over so many decades if I have developed some type of immunity to the big G. It seems some people have.
I am, however, thinking of buying a Sawyer bottle filter before my solo this week. I am going thru lots of small lakes and can use it in Az hiking in the winter. Who knows, perhaps I am a slow learner.

Another Sawyer user here. Many ways to use it, low weight, low cost, backflushable, available everywhere, etc.

I do the exact same thing, Bromel. I still own a MSR Hyrdroflow that never gets used. The filters are $40 and last roughly one BWCA trip. however, there are much more convenient filters now that many have mentioned versus the MSR I bought ten years ago. I have considered getting one of those platypus bags but I just prefer to save money.

We do sometimes use those Coleman tablets that kill bacteria. We typically put those in are collapsable water container. Other than its a lot of Nalgene dippin sippin!

Josh H

Where is this Spring on Ninamoose you speak of? Been there a few times but never knew this.

Banksiana: "

ockycamper: "


Everyone is free of course to make those choices. However there is only one way to insure in the group comes back without giardia and that is filtering.



"

Always swim with your head above water!"

Amen !
How silly is all this ?
Best water in the world !

GraniteCliffs: "The comparison to PFDs, seat belts and bike helmets does not seem to ring true to me. Those are things that kill people every single day. While you may contract an illness from bad water it won’t kill you.
I am a life long exclusive dipper so am biased I am sure. I often wonder if after all my trips over so many decades if I have developed some type of immunity to the big G. It seems some people have.
I am, however, thinking of buying a Sawyer bottle filter before my solo this week. I am going thru lots of small lakes and can use it in Az hiking in the winter. Who knows, perhaps I am a slow learner. "

Agreed. Based on the wide variety of water sources I drank from as a youth, I am pretty convinced I have been exposed but never developed symptoms. It is estimated that 1 in 10 people develop immunity without any symptoms. My husband, however, is not one of those people. Very sensitive.

And wearing a PFD, bike helmet, or seatbelt are very different from filtering water IMO.

Stumpy:
Great to hear MNGreene !
I guess I have had a few That I've lead who decided to filter, but only a few.
Had a guy with intense head aches mid trip, I'm convinced it's because he was dehydrated.
Nice to hear from you...been a long time.
Am I wrong, or are you the only other guy I know who's been to Roulston Lake North of Delahey ?.... Or was it that no-name North of Veron.... or both ?"

Both.
Swimming is a good point. Not to stir the pot, but if you want to really enjoy drinking straight from the lake, go swimming in deep water, dive down and enjoy a cool drink.

MNGreene: "

Stumpy:
Great to hear MNGreene !
I guess I have had a few That I've lead who decided to filter, but only a few.
Had a guy with intense head aches mid trip, I'm convinced it's because he was dehydrated.
Nice to hear from you...been a long time.
Am I wrong, or are you the only other guy I know who's been to Roulston Lake North of Delahey ?.... Or was it that no-name North of Veron.... or both ?"

Both.
Swimming is a good point. Not to stir the pot, but if you want to really enjoy drinking straight from the lake, go swimming in deep water, dive down and enjoy a cool drink.



"

Love it !
God bless you my ultimate bushwhacking buddy !

I'm a filterer.

We all have our own experiences and ways of doing things that have worked and that we believe in. On this thread there are many examples of people who don't filter and haven't gotten sick. And there have been about eight of us so far on this thread that have rolled the dice and lost. Neither experience is terribly uncommon. Our past experiences do not guarantee similar future results.

There is no doubt that there is risk in any untreated surface water, including lakes in pristine areas. There is also reasonably good evidence that among the best bets is water just below the surface in big remote lakes, because, as has been pointed out, giardia tends to sink. There are other pathogens that don't sink however. And I think people very often get that lake water as it swirls around their non-pristine hands.

I'll continue to filter, because for me filtering is easy and getting extremely sick is hard. Been there.

I've gathered much of the applicable scientific research on the topic here.

You make a good point. Most of the "dippers" seem to base it on that they have not gotten sick. As you have mentioned, however, repeated dipping of a cup with your hand. . .particularly after you have held such things as bait, etc., also contaminates the water you are drinking.

The only way to be absolutely sure the water you are drinking is safe if filtering. The rest is simply a role of the dice.

A couple of items from Minnesota DNR:

"'The bottom line is this: If you play backcountry water roulette for long without using a form of treatment, sooner or later, your number will come up. And that won't mean you're a winner,'' he says.

Patricia Bloomgren agrees. She directs the division of environmental health for the Minnesota Department of Health. ''We would not consider the water safe to drink even in the pristine Boundary Waters,'' she says. Her agency requires that even resorts adjacent to the Boundary waters clean their drinking water to meet the surface water treatment rule of the Safe Drinking Water Act."

I just got back two days ago. There was so much pine pollen in the water it was just like a film. Then you combine the algae, mayfly hatch, and other nasties. If I had to dip I would go to the middle of the lake and drink up. But I prefer to filter our water.

Shuley: "If you're going to dip and sip, why not do it with something like the katadyne be free, just dip and sip with a filter. Seems like a no brainer. "

This is what I use.

The technology and convenience of water filtration/treatment have come a long ways to be a “no-brainer” for me.

JW

I've been drinking out of BWCA and Quetico lakes and points north since 1979. Never got sick.

Just careful where I get that water.

We've considered it, but figured why take the risk and possibly ruin a trip.

ockycamper: "
The only way to be absolutely sure the water you are drinking is safe if filtering. The rest is simply a role of the dice.
""

I'd argue that boiling is the only way to be absolutely sure the water is safe. While I think filtering have a high success rate, boiling is really the safest.

On our recent trip we decided to dip during our 6 hour travel in because of the heat. We were two lakes from our destination and out of water, so we "rolled the dice" instead of stopping to set up the gravity rig.

I'll be bringing my Sawyer mini squeeze from now on, just for peace of mind. The beaver activity in the area was off the charts.

And as mentioned, there was so much pollen in the water that it was kind of like drinking weak spruce tea all week.

boiling water only works if people boil it for 6 minutes. Most people just bring it to a boil and call it a day.

There is a great deal of scientific research backing all commercial water filtration systems. The Minnesota DNR warns against drinking water straight out of any Minnesota lake including the BWCA lakes.

Everyone can do what they want. But before "dippers" talk others into "dipping", maybe the safer way to go is dipping and drinking through Sawyer bottles.

We are going to disinfect ourselves into serious trouble. The immune system needs exercise just like the cardio and respiratory systems. If you let it work on the little stuff, it will handle the bigger stuff much better.

ockycamper: "boiling water only works if people boil it for 6 minutes. ."

Umm, this is not true. According to the World Health Organization, a water temperature of 158°F (70°C) will kill 99.999% of bacteria, protozoa, and viruses in less than 1 minute. At sea level water boils at 212 and unless you're running a turbocharged stove and have no nerve endings in your mouth and throat the water will have spent more than a minute above 158 degrees before you ingest it.

I should have been more clear. . .hear is the guideline from the CDC:

If you don’t have safe bottled water, you should boil your water to make it safe to drink. Boiling is the surest method to kill disease-causing organisms, including viruses, bacteria, and parasites.

You can improve the flat taste of boiled water by pouring it from one container to another and then allowing it to stand for a few hours; OR by adding a pinch of salt for each quart or liter of boiled water.

If the water is cloudy:

Filter it through a clean cloth, paper towel, or coffee filter OR allow it to settle.
Draw off the clear water.
Bring the clear water to a rolling boil for 1 minute (at elevations above 6,500 feet, boil for three minutes).
Let the boiled water cool.
Store the boiled water in clean sanitized containers with tight covers.
If the water is clear:

Bring the clear water to a rolling boil for 1 minute (at elevations above 6,500 feet, boil for three minutes).
Let the boiled water cool.
Store the boiled water in clean sanitized containers with tight covers.

Water must be brought to a rolling boil. . . that is 212 degrees or more. The six minute guideline was from a wilderness safety guide that refererenced the same as the above, with the six minutes taking into account the time to get the water to a full rolling boil and holding it there for 1 minute.

No one drinks boiling water. The guideline is that the water must be taken to above 212 degrees and held there for a minimum of one minute, then allowed to cool to drinking temperature.

Wouldn't it just be easier to use a filtered water bottle?

arctic: "I've been drinking out of BWCA and Quetico lakes and points north since 1979. Never got sick.


Just careful where I get that water."

Amen !
If you won't drink it, then you shouldn't swim in it either.
Nobody on this site is very tight lipped.
;)

Just returned from the BW... dipped out of the middle of the lake 100% of the trip. Filled Nalgenes and our collapsible water jug for in camp. All good. I don't consider it a risk at all.

ockycamper: "... a rolling boil. . . that is 212 degrees or more... the water must be taken to above 212 degrees..."

In the context of boiling water in open air, there is no such thing as "above 212 degrees".

When water reaches its boiling temp (which may or may not be 212F), the temperature does not continue to rise. Extra amounts of applied heat just causes a faster phase change, i.e. a faster conversion from liquid to vapor (a faster boil off rate). It does not cause the temperature to continue to rise.

It is only at sea level that water boils at 212F. At any other elevation the boiling point is lower. Where I live the boiling point is 210F.

Banksiana: "

ockycamper: "boiling water only works if people boil it for 6 minutes. ."

Umm, this is not true. According to the World Health Organization, a water temperature of 158°F (70°C) will kill 99.999% of bacteria, protozoa, and viruses in less than 1 minute. At sea level water boils at 212 and unless you're running a turbocharged stove and have no nerve endings in your mouth and throat the water will have spent more than a minute above 158 degrees before you ingest it. "

Very true!

Why?

With technology upgrades i.e BeFree and many other options, why even risk it? The only thing I'm seeing is the nostalgia of "this is what I did 30 years ago". Thirty years ago we also brought a walmart tarp, aluminum canoes, jeans & army duffel bags. I for one, will not be bringing in the above mentioned items just because I did thirty years ago...

ockycamper: "


Water must be brought to a rolling boil. . . that is 212 degrees or more. The six minute guideline was from a wilderness safety guide that refererenced the same as the above, with the six minutes taking into account the time to get the water to a full rolling boil and holding it there for 1 minute.

"

Again, simply untrue. Above 158 degrees for over a minute. Bringing water to any kind of boil is more than sufficient.

I drank straight out of Kelly Lake once when my brand new Katadyn filter clogged. I was so dehydrated and needed water badly. I thought I'd drink just a cup to hold me for a while but I just kept dipping and drinking. Best tasting water ever!
I waited for the bad gut thing. Nothing happened.

Last week there was so much pine pollen and nasty stuff on Ensign. I needed to back flush my filter after every 2 gallons of filtered water. One of the guys on our trip was popping allergy pills every so often. I wonder if the pollen in the water had something to do with that?

Lawnchair107: "Why?


With technology upgrades i.e BeFree and many other options, why even risk it? The only thing I'm seeing is the nostalgia of "this is what I did 30 years ago". Thirty years ago we also brought a walmart tarp, aluminum canoes, jeans & army duffel bags. I for one, will not be bringing in the above mentioned items just because I did thirty years ago..."

Why should I carry heavy "technology" into the Boundary Waters when it is not necessary? If you understand the science of giardia spores and how not to drink them by fetching water from the middle of the lake, then your fancy technology is just about as useful as a bowling ball.

Lawnchair107: "Why?


With technology upgrades i.e BeFree and many other options, why even risk it? The only thing I'm seeing is the nostalgia of "this is what I did 30 years ago". Thirty years ago we also brought a walmart tarp, aluminum canoes, jeans & army duffel bags. I for one, will not be bringing in the above mentioned items just because I did thirty years ago..."

Huh ?
47 years ago, I was told not to wear jeans. I never have & usually Dickie or Red Cap work pants are my standard on advice of Dennis Konieczny (who ran Canadian Wilderness Voyage).
He was also a biology teacher, and still drinks straight from the lake.
I've never brought duffle bags, just Duluth packs and still aluminum canoes.
I still bring canvas tent's now and then (always when I guide), my one man tent is canvas...love the smell.
I insist on single portaging most the time, and will allow people I guide to filter, but never do myself, and don't like the filtering during mid travel days.
No friends I go with filter.
I stay super hydrated on trips (I think that's most important) and never feel better than when on one.
I pee at beginning & end of every portage, and in middle of long ones.
I've been to more lakes in Quetico Superior than 99.9 % of any tripper that I ever met. That includes guides.
Drank from all except Shagawa ;)

One thing I would never stand for is some guy in jeans, wanting to bring ice, and a gallon of milk for his Frosted Flakes.

Oh, and the last time I wore bug repellant, was 1977.

Stumpy: "

Lawnchair107: "Why?



With technology upgrades i.e BeFree and many other options, why even risk it? The only thing I'm seeing is the nostalgia of "this is what I did 30 years ago". Thirty years ago we also brought a walmart tarp, aluminum canoes, jeans & army duffel bags. I for one, will not be bringing in the above mentioned items just because I did thirty years ago..."

Huh ?
47 years ago, I was told not to wear jeans. I never have & usually Dickie or Red Cap work pants are my standard on advice of Dennis Konieczny (who ran Canadian Wilderness Voyage).
He was also a biology teacher, and still drinks straight from the lake.
I've never brought duffle bags, just Duluth packs and still aluminum canoes.
I still bring canvas tent's now and then (always when I guide), my one man tent is canvas...love the smell.
I insist on single portaging most the time, and will allow people I guide to filter, but never do myself, and don't like the filtering during mid travel days.
No friends I go with filter.
I stay super hydrated on trips (I think that's most important) and never feel better than when on one.
I pee at beginning & end of every portage, and in middle of long ones.
I've been to more lakes in Quetico Superior than 99.9 % of any tripper that I ever met. That includes guides.
Drank from all except Shagawa ;)


One thing I would never stand for is some guy in jeans, wanting to bring ice, and a gallon of milk for his Frosted Flakes.


Oh, and the last time I wore bug repellant, was 1977.





"

All true... but I shouldn't post after drinking ;)

Wow! I can’t believe this thread is still going!
I say if you want to risk it, drink out of the lake.
If you want to be careful, filter or treat the water.
If you don’t filter or test and catch something, sucks to be you but don’t expect me to feel sorry for you! And I’m not stopping my trip for you either
I usually treat but have dipped and drank on occasion.

Great comment. Everyone is free to operate within what they think is safe. However, as you stated, when I bring 18 guys up for September trips I make sure everyone has Platypus camp filters an individual water filters. If they drink from the lake, and get sick, there will be no sympathy from me.

Stumpy: "
"

Drink the water….don’t drink the water….whatever. Just want to say that is one awesome tent, and anyone packing that into the BWCA has my respect. Very old school. Very Heinselman.

Jaywalker: "

Stumpy: "
"

Drink the water….don’t drink the water….whatever. Just want to say that is one awesome tent, and anyone packing that into the BWCA has my respect. Very old school. Very Heinselman. "

Is that like a old Military issue?

Pinetree: "

Jaywalker: "

Stumpy: "
"

Drink the water….don’t drink the water….whatever. Just want to say that is one awesome tent, and anyone packing that into the BWCA has my respect. Very old school. Very Heinselman. "

Is that like a old Military issue?"

Maybe, not sure.
It's a Rainer Tent, made in Seattle, I think.
The outfitter I was working for in the 70s, was switching over to nylon tents, and I bought 5 different sizes at 5 bucks each.
The one pictured is the one man "guide tent", and I've used it a ton.
When pitched right it stays nice and dry.
Once in early May I had to use my breath to thaw the snow and ice that had the zipper frosted solid, before I could get out in the morning.
I took it to a tailor in the 90s, and had a new heavy duty zipper sewn onto it.
Just tie flaps for the outer door.
I love it.... Weighs about 12 pounds.
Used on many solo's, and guide trips.

This is super interesting to me. My husband is sleeping off a Benadryl at this moment because his case of Swimmer’s itch is so bad. I swam right next to him all week and Ive got maybe 2 red bumps that don’t itch. I never thought about how susceptible one might be to parasites, but here we are.

I grew up canoeing to the middle for water, but my gravity filter is so light and easy I just do that. We bring iodine as a back up too. I also usually bring antibiotics for giardiasis, though they expired last year and I haven’t bothered getting them renewed.

straighthairedcurly: "On solo trips, I filter water at the campsite each evening/morning. If I run out during the day, I sometimes filter and sometimes dip/sip. I have never had any issues. I also started doing BWCA and further north trips when I was just 13 and we never treated water and never had an issue.


On trips with my husband, he has to treat everything he drinks. He is very prone to picking up parasites wherever he travels. His system is super sensitive. So we use a Steripen during the day if we run out of the water we filtered at the campsite.


I was showing an old reenactment film about the voyageurs to my students last week. In a couple scenes, a voyageur leans over and dips his bone cup into the lake and then drinks it. The kids gasped and said, "What is he doing?!" I explained that people used to just drink from lakes and rivers. They didn't have other ways to get water easily. They couldn't imagine it."

Bromel: "
By the way, I used to be very active on this site more than 10 years ago. This is my first post in a long, long time."

That is a funny quote there. And nope, definitely filter, weight and time worth the not getting sick from whatever. I tend to prefilter stuff through a coffee filter because it will take bigger stuff out before clogging your fancy ceramic filter.

RRHD: "This is super interesting to me. My husband is sleeping off a Benadryl at this moment because his case of Swimmer’s itch is so bad. I swam right next to him all week and Ive got maybe 2 red bumps that don’t itch. I never thought about how susceptible one might be to parasites, but here we are.


I grew up canoeing to the middle for water, but my gravity filter is so light and easy I just do that. We bring iodine as a back up too. I also usually bring antibiotics for giardiasis, though they expired last year and I haven’t bothered getting them renewed.

straighthairedcurly: "On solo trips, I filter water at the campsite each evening/morning. If I run out during the day, I sometimes filter and sometimes dip/sip. I have never had any issues. I also started doing BWCA and further north trips when I was just 13 and we never treated water and never had an issue.



On trips with my husband, he has to treat everything he drinks. He is very prone to picking up parasites wherever he travels. His system is super sensitive. So we use a Steripen during the day if we run out of the water we filtered at the campsite.



I was showing an old reenactment film about the voyageurs to my students last week. In a couple scenes, a voyageur leans over and dips his bone cup into the lake and then drinks it. The kids gasped and said, "What is he doing?!" I explained that people used to just drink from lakes and rivers. They didn't have other ways to get water easily. They couldn't imagine it."

"

Anti biotics or medicine for giardia? What kind and don't you need a prescription or maybe you have ready source?

I have had Giardia twice. both from river source.

With products like the Katadyn BeFree that fold up in your pocket and are extremely light, there is no reason to ever drink out the lake or not filter water.

Not worth the risk imo as I dont get to trip as much as I would like as i have young kids and a busy life so I want to do everything I can to take any unnecessary risks out the trip. To each their own though.

used to dip in the 80s and 90s, never even heard of a water filter back then, it's just what we did, and we thought it was cool that we could drink right from a lake.


I haven't had beaver fever myself (knock wood), but I've not heard good recommendations about it from people, so I filter now. Never particularly enjoyed filtering, but seems preferable to living on the throne for a week after a trip.

I'm fairly lazy, and avoid extra or useless work whenever possible, but the cost/benefit analysis of filtering checks out pretty clearly, for me personally anyway.

...Anti biotics or medicine for giardia? What kind and don't you need a prescription or maybe you have ready source?


I have had Giardia twice. both from river source."

I think Tinidazole (brand name Tindamax) is probably the best choice for most people. As effective as anything else, and can be taken in one dose. You do need a prescription, but many doctors will prescribe it based on reported symptoms alone, and some will even prescribe it for people to have "just in case, as needed" on long wilderness trips for situations where an individual is relatively certain they have giardiasis.

One of the first questions doctors ask in cases of suspected giardia is if you've drank any untreated water in the outdoors.

BuckNelson: "

...Anti biotics or medicine for giardia? What kind and don't you need a prescription or maybe you have ready source?



I have had Giardia twice. both from river source."

I think Tinidazole (brand name Tindamax) is probably the best choice for most people. As effective as anything else, and can be taken in one dose. You do need a prescription, but many doctors will prescribe it based on reported symptoms alone, and some will even prescribe it for people to have "just in case, as needed" on long wilderness trips for situations where an individual is relatively certain they have giardiasis.


One of the first questions doctors ask in cases of suspected giardia is if you've drank any untreated water in the outdoors."

I have had myself tested and we have a good lab at our hospitals. Results within a hour.

OCDave: "My Platypus 4L Gravity filter is easier to use than paddling to the middle of the lake.


During a day of paddling, I feel obligated to use the Lifestraw my kid gave me for Christmas.


Today's filters are so light, compact and easy to use, there is really no reason not to filter. "

I do this same thing, kindof. Sawyer Squeeze if needed on the lake, Platypus Dirty Bag filled as I approach a camp.

me

40 + trips, I always will, delicious water :)