We came out yesterday from Basswood in 20 mph winds gusting to 40.
Needless to say it was harrowing, and in my opinion really stupid. I was outvoted by 3 other guys. What would you have done? At what point do you say "we have to stay put?" We're talking 3 foot whitecaps at times. Does anyone know if there were rescues? We came across many people stuck at portages.

First of all, glad you guys made it out ok.

I think unfortunately, and perhaps sadly, many of us only learn about the risks of paddling in high winds by experiencing some difficult situations. I do not exempt myself from this group. Years ago I remember paddling with my partner through brutal waves on Snowbank because we felt a serious need to get back to our car and home that day. More recently, I’ve had plenty of days where I chose to just stay put regardless of timeline.

I can’t say what I would have done in your shoes, not being able to see the exact size of waves, direction of travel, possible windbreaks, etc. One thing I can suggest is to invest in a basic weather radio (about $60), which will do a decent job of telling you the next days wind speed, gusts and direction. If needed, roust the gang extra early to get out in front of it. Usually, but not always, winds pick up between 9-11 am. I was once stuck because of winds, and got up the next day at 3:45 and was paddling by 4:30 in the dark to beat the winds which picked up at 9 am.

It’s easy to be an arm chair quarterback, so I can’t say what I would have done in your shoes. Paddle early and paddle close to shore. I also have drilled into my family that if I ever do not exit on the day I planned, the first thing they should do is check the weather for storms or strong winds knowing that I might delay if conditions were hazardous.

Depends on how bad I needed to get out I suppose. I have gone in some terrible wind and hated it and other times I have waited it out. All depends. It is really terrible though.

We paddled out through Burnt-Smoke-Sawbill yesterday. Those winds were wicked and exhausting. We felt it was well within our ability but it was still nerve wrecking. I can imagine Basswood would have been much worse. There were many groups waiting at the Sawbill landing hoping to see the wind die enough for them to use their entry permit safely.

That is frustrating when a group can't come to an agreement. I have only been in one situation where a group was making what I felt was a very unsafe decision. In that situation, I at least had one other person agree with me. We simply told the group we refused to do what they were planning and they eventually went the safer, more conservative way we proposed. I am glad you were able to stay safe, but I would seriously question whether traveling with those people is in your best interest/safety in the future unless they are able to realize what they did was stupid.

I’ve been outvoted before in these decisions. It didn’t turn out good. After that day I vowed to listen to my own thoughts and let others decide what’s good for them. I would have waited until the winds died down.

Question for you, what was the reason the others wanted to leave so badly?

Luckily I had my Garmin InReach unit with me two weeks ago and took a weather forecast the night before. They said high winds so we got up at 5:00 and packed up, and beat the 30 mph winds.

Wow, tough situation to navigate both on and off the water. I think decision making is a good topic to discuss beforehand. There are some decisions, such as spending an extra day at a nice campsite, that are reasonably majority rule. But I feel like safety due to weather should be one where everyone can veto going out on the water. But this really requires discussing beforehand or having the most experienced person speak up for this principle at the moment.

The closest I've come to this was a day where it wasn't dangerous but it was going to be seriously draining to continue. We had one person holding out to keep paddling but they eventually gave in and accepted that we would have a long paddle to get out the next day. The next morning was calm and glorious and we started the day with a beaver family out and about, 15 minutes into our paddle. Karma can work for you.

We've also paddled to the takeout on a pretty wavy day but chose to stay close to shore. That was a bit brutal in ways but safe because if we capsized we were close to shore.

I also agree that warning people that you may be late and to check the weather is a good idea. Outfitters should also make sure people know that they will understand if a group gets windbound.

And I know I've said this before, but I like the saying, "the only thing worse than being on shore when you wish you were out on the water, is being on the water when you wish you were on shore."

I've been in a similar situation and acquiesced to the majority. High winds on the Kawishiwi River. Tough going to the entry point on Farm Lake. Seeing the conditions on Farm convinced the others we made a bad decision. Fortunate for us, another party before us called the outfitter to pick them up. We hitched along. The boat ride across Farm was no fun either. I realize now I should have been more forceful, especially given that the group was 3 adults and 3 scouts (13,13,17) in 3 canoes.

3' whitecaps on Basswood. Yikes. Gets the heart rate up, for sure.
Comes down to not overrating the weakest link in the group, I would think. Make your call and take your chances. Or wait. Till it's safe.

dbl post

I error on the side of caution when it comes to wind.

Been there done the other No thank you.

I am normally group leader.

I always allow one or two days extra for bad weather days.

Every time I go in I leave myself an extra day in my itinerary or vacation to get out. If out early I enjoy a State Park along the north shore or stay at Bear Head or Vermilion. I got blown into a back bay on Brule doing a solo in September. Waking up one morning the weather changed, the winds blew and I ended up in a back bay. NW winds blew for Four days. Four foot caps, couldn't move. Luckily I had a great secluded site and a few books to read. Temperatures also fell from 75 degree's to 55 with constant rain. Hypothermia and wind could of been a real issue had I chosen to "try to get out". After two nights another solo'er showed up in "my" bay and we decided to leave together. I broke camp within 20 minutes and we departed and made it out safely. Moral: Be safe, plan accordingly and be weather wise.

I had a similar experience this year.
May 25th was supposed to be our last day on the water and we were exiting through Moose Lake. The morning was nice and calm. We had made it all the way down to the Sucker/Newfound area when the winds started to pick up, no worries. It was just a stiff head wind but nothing that made either of us uncomfortable. By the time we got to the southwest end of Newfound the last 1/4 or 1/8th mile was brutal. We rested along the SW shoreline of Newfound right by the narrows. We ate, we hydrated and agreed that if it remained this bad on the other side that we would hunker down on the shore and wait it out.
A tidbit you should know is that this is the first canoe trip for my paddle partner in the front of the canoe. They had done exceptionally well so far is this 8 day trip. We had been out in big water earlier and caught in a squall and they did very well both physically and mentally. Anyway, on with the story...
We went through the narrows into Moose Lake and there were large rollers out there tipped with white caps. You could see the tops of the trees on the far shore bent over and swaying in the winds. Since the winds were out of the SW we we somewhat sheltered from the full force of the winds by the angle of the shoreline. As we passed the shallow point of the shoreline about 1/4 mile SW of the narrows we could see the results of full force winds. I new that there was no way we had the stamina / energy to paddle through those waves for the 1-1/2 mile back to EP25. We got within 5-10 feet of the shoreline and swung it around and headed for a spot on the shoreline were we could get out and discuss our options. After much discussion and waiting for about 2 hours the winds only seemed to have increased. We watched tow boat after tow boat hauling people out, and they were getting pounded by the waves as we watched. Being a purist I really didn't want to get a tow but we both agreed that it was the smartest thing to do. So, we flagged down the next power boat that went by and asked them to get a message to Latourell's of where we were and that we would like a tow. Within an hour or so someone showed up and gave us a ride back. Best decision we made. Later we learned that the winds that day were gusting as high was 40mph and lasted for 2 days. I'm sure there were periods of time when the winds died down and we could have made a run for it for that last 1-1/2 miles, but it would have been an uncomfortable wait on that shoreline.





Edit-corrected spelling

whyzata: "Moral: Be safe, plan accordingly and be weather wise. "

I didn't say this is my other post, but it is basically what I was getting at.
Choose wisely.

I have, and would have, definitely stayed put in those conditions. Like others always build in a wind day. Safe over sorry. Just more time to stop and smell the roses.

Given water temperatures in June, I would have waited this one out. I also would have stood my ground. If you refused to get in a canoe would they have left you behind? In a group it is always best to consider the ability of the least experienced paddler to deal with the situation. I stopped going on trips with people that make poor safety decisions and don't have the skills to back them up. So I need to know folks really well. Probably why all recent trips have been with my partner or solo.

Later in the season I will risk a swamping, but only if there is a travel line that keeps me within a reasonable distance of shore(100 feet). No wide open crossings.

Several times I have played in the waves and wind in a situation where big rollers were pushing me at the shore. It is really a worthwhile learning experience. You find what the canoe and your skills are capable of doing. The waves and wind will assist you to shore if you swamp. Only in warmer water, however.

Also, the boat makes a difference. If boats are loaded to capacity, or overloaded it is best to stay on shore in a blow. If boats have lots of freeboard, even if that freeboard is a bit of a pain in the wind, they have remarkable seaworthiness if combined with good paddling skills. My partner and I have a big canoe with flare the whole length, almost like a dory. We get into big open water in the tidal marshes and sounds on the Atlantic coast and it is great fun.
The biggest waves we have experience, however, came from a big trawler type yacht barreling down the Intercoastal Waterway. A solid low brace is a required skill for sure and saved us that day.

We finished a trip on the bloodvein river at the First Nation village of bloodvein. In those days bloodvein was accessed only by ferry which would take you across lake Winnipeg. The waves on lake Winnipeg were enormous, maybe ten feet. The ferry captain canceled the crossing stranding us and a group of German tourists in bloodvein for the night. You don’t want to spend a night in bloodvein. The captain must have had the same thought so after a several hour wait we sailed out onto lake Winnipeg, it was exciting. They made us wear pfds. I had no problems with that

The standard practice in backcountry skiing (and commonly in climbing), where if you're wrong people may die in avalanches, is to NOT GO if anyone in the party doesn't think the slope is safe. There's no trying to convince them. Of course, there's a discussion of hazards and risk, but if anyone in the party doesn't like the conditions, then the whole party goes somewhere else.

We've used the same philosophy in remote canoe trips--if someone doesn't want to paddle a rapid, then they don't. You either portage, or maybe have a better paddler take the boat down and they hike.

When the consequences are high (and it seems your scenario fits that), it's a workable option.

R1verrunner: "I error on the side of caution when it comes to wind.


Been there done the other No thank you.


I am normally group leader.


I always allow one or two days extra for bad weather days."

Agree with everything. I usually allow a extra day also. Yes I got stranded on a small Island in Washington bay, best move I ever made. Probably wouldn't of made it across the big Basswood bay.
Sooner or later the Water-big wave roulet(sp) will get you.
Its hard to plan sometimes, but if you know start out if you have to before daybreak.
You go with the flow when out with nature. Take a break and wait it out, even if it adds another day. Many many drownings, be it Bayley bay or others just have to get out of the wilderness that moment. Some it will be their Last moment.

MReid: "The standard practice in backcountry skiing (and commonly in climbing), where if you're wrong people may die in avalanches, is to NOT GO if anyone in the party doesn't think the slope is safe. There's no trying to convince them. Of course, there's a discussion of hazards and risk, but if anyone in the party doesn't like the conditions, then the whole party goes somewhere else.


We've used the same philosophy in remote canoe trips--if someone doesn't want to paddle a rapid, then they don't. You either portage, or maybe have a better paddler take the boat down and they hike.


When the consequences are high (and it seems your scenario fits that), it's a workable option."

Good point, if the person who says we should make it out and maybe you could-all you lose is a bonus another day outdoors.
If the other three say push on-if their wrong-the future doesn't matter. You or all of you are dead.

Everyone should know their abilities. It's ok to challenge yourself, but you also need to be realistic about conditions and possible outcomes. Then make the decision that you are comfortable with.

We wanted to spend our last night on Dissapointment or Parent, then leave early Friday to avoid the expected high winds on Snowbank. However all the sites were full so we pushed on. We crossed the portage only to find the wind/ waves were pretty strong already. We had been in worse before, but I was having some issues with 1 shoulder so we weren't sure if we should cross. No cell reception so we couldn't cave and call for a tow. We ended up spending a couple hours on uncomfortable rocks recharging, eating, trying to nap. When there was a slight decrease in wind we decided to go. It wasn't as bad as expected although I couldn't move my shoulder without pain for the next 24 hours.

In over one hundred bwca trips and many in the Alaska and Canadian bush I have never swamped a canoe due to wind created waves. I’ve paddled lake nipigon in waves so big we would loose sight of each other even though we were always within screaming distance from each other. One secret is paddling so close to shore that you’d catch the tiny bit of Lee from the shoreline trees, you may hit a rock but n those conditions rocks are fairly obvious. Another thing to note is some canoes are very difficult to handle in tough conditions. Canoes based on race designs are extremely difficult to control in a tough wind. For typical bwca trips my brothers mn2 is fine. If I’m going to be on the border, big lake, big waves, I’d rather paddle an alumacraft. Those mn2s are scary in a wind. You’ve got to have super skills and be strong as a superhero. If you are concerned about handling your canoe in bad conditions find a canoe with an inch of rocker. It’s the difference between fun and terror.

With 6 decades of canoeing experience I never dumped one because of wind.

But I learned long ago it is not worth it to find out how big of waves one
can handle.

jwartman59 said.

"I’ve paddled lake nipigon in waves so big we would loose sight of each other even though we were always within screaming distance from each other"

Was it an emergency that you had to.

Now you have bragging rights.

Having dragged lakes for bodies several times there is no bragging rights for
the dead.
Keep doing foolish stuff long enough and it well catch up to you.

I agree that a big flat bottom Alum canoe is much better than a kelvar MNII.

Had a Alumcraft 17 that one almost stand on the gunnels and not tip it..

But it weighed 90lbs.

Bragging because you never flipped does nobody any good. Group trips have to be adapted to the weakest link. If you have ever guided for a living you learn that is a primary requirement.

And the equipment matters much less than you think it does. We are far from strong but our Kevlar Odyssey is fine in big waves and reflecting waves but its not only because it is a good wave shedder due to hull shape ; its the 25 years of ocean kayaking experience that taught us the interactions of wind and wave and landform.

ie. the most important equipment is between your ears.

And insisting on sticking to a schedule is playing russian roulette. Use the grey thing to plan for bad weather.

Savage Voyageur: "I’ve been outvoted before in these decisions. It didn’t turn out good. After that day I vowed to listen to my own thoughts and let others decide what’s good for them. I would have waited until the winds died down.


Question for you, what was the reason the others wanted to leave so badly?


Luckily I had my Garmin InReach unit with me two weeks ago and took a weather forecast the night before. They said high winds so we got up at 5:00 and packed up, and beat the 30 mph winds. "

+1 On the inReach weather feature.

We had a couple of big wind days on Little Sag and Gabi 6/18 and 6/19. An entire Outward bound group dumped on Gabi. Andy at Tuscarora described the scene as "kids bobbing all over the lake". Everyone OK. Water temps were nice, but what a hassle and a bit of a scare I'm sure. We were out daytripping on part of Gabi that day and I'm definitely not surprised it happened.

As an example, day broke this morning, just south of Brule, to 42 degrees and wind gusts at 40mph. Oh, and we just got another rain shower after a 0.6 inch soaker yesterday. Pays to have clear group communication about weather issues, before the trip.
I took my two sons with another family years ago. They insisted on putting in on the designated entry day at snowbank in really dangerous conditions. Driving rain, wind. They got wet, cold, blown around, lost and camped on a granite slab they were lucky to find on the windward shoreline of a lake they didn’t know. They were rescued the next day by some kind and generous fishers who towed them out. They have never returned. I told my sons we’d not be going in with them that day. We’d cancel the trip before doing something like that. Next day, there was a permit available for Lake One. Change of plans. Beautiful trip. I really respect those gusts.
+2 on either a weather radio or an InReach weather report. And +10 on building in a layover day or two. Also bring a Nat Geo map for either west or east in case your plans change.

i have done 3 footers coming out, to the point where you needed someone else to launch your canoe and stablize you arm pit deep. then hug the shoreline. we couldn't go back and we couldnt stay where we were. maybe a hour to make it a 1/3 of a mile. and i have done 3 footers going in with the wind. still not fun, but you had to keep pace, to keep from swamping. it all depends, what canoe you are in, what your experiene level is. how heavy you are loaded. the old flat bottom grummans were fun in waves.

tigag: "We came out yesterday from Basswood in 20 mph winds gusting to 40.
Needless to say it was harrowing, and in my opinion really stupid. I was outvoted by 3 other guys. What would you have done? At what point do you say "we have to stay put?" We're talking 3 foot whitecaps at times. Does anyone know if there were rescues? We came across many people stuck at portages."

My paddling partner and I pulled a guy out of Gillis in May one year who was paddling with 2 other guys in a MN3, in similar conditions. The surface temp was 49 that day, but luckily the air was warm. We were putting down a growler since it was windy and we were stuck on land for the day, when suddenly we see this canoe violently bouncing up and down quite a ways offshore. It took on water and they rolled over. Two guys made a swim for it and made it. The other guy couldn't get his boots off and was floating in the water.

I would love to say that we were heroic and didn't think twice about paddling out to save that guy, but there was a reason we weren't on the water that day. It was way to rough. When we finally decided there was no way he was getting out on his own we quickly dressed to prepare for a capsize and put a little weight in our boat for good measure. By the time we got to him he was still responsive, but very blue. It was warm and windy so everyone dried off quickly, and an hour later it was calm and we were able to round up their gear. Nothing was lost, however a very expensive camera was ruined. They were nice guys, but in some ways I was a little ticked about someone taking such an obvious risk and putting other campers at risk to save them. I can't say that I haven't made equally poor decisions at times and just gotten lucky though.

Due to the wind we weren't able to safely paddle my boat back to the campsite, and my canoe took some damage from where we washed up to shore. Nothing an epoxy job didn't fix.

Interesting subject.
One thing that should be brought up is how good a PFD do you got and is it still have 100% of its floatation it did when new? Has it got matted down from sitting on over the years?
Also I was lucky enough when working to attend a U.S. Coast Guard two day training on water safety and rescue.
Many PFD are made for purposes and classified so. For small children you must have one that will float them face upright.
There was some adult PFD out there that if unconscious will float you face down. Do you know what yours does? You should.
How about if you have heavy boots on etc. and weigh a little extra-will your PFD float you.

Part of paddling is acknowledging when it's time to hang out on shore and wait.

HowardSprague: "Part of paddling is acknowledging when it's time to hang out on shore and wait."

Yes sometimes it is by trial and error over the years. Some just get to have one error tho and gone.

I was windbound during those days on Loon. As a solo paddler, the choice was pretty straightforward. I lay in my tent the second day with gust near 40mph and had to hold onto the tent poles.

For me it depends on the time of year. Water temp this time of year, I'd be more willing to accommodate the majority. That said - every paddler...and potential swimmer, needs to know their abilities.


15+ years ago we found ourselves at the Snowbank EP on the thursday after fishing opener with a handful of other groups staring out at the rollers and whitecaps.

My group wanted to go for it. I simply refused. My exact words were "No way, I'm not going out there. That water is way to cold"

I offered up an alternative of a remote trout lake, with a hike in camp that I knew of, within an hour or so and we went there for the long weekend. The group may have been a little butt hurt about it, but that faded that evening with a bit of whiskey and some fresh trout over the fire.