BWCA Pyramid / Center High Tarp Pitch & CCS Sizes Boundary Waters Gear Forum
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Us5Camp
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07/05/2021 03:39PM  
Hello BWCA'ers
I'd like to pull the trigger on a CCS tarp. We've been getting by w/ Menards tarps and Noah 12's.

1st question is about picts I've seen here w/ the tarp pitched w/ the center elevated like a pyramid, parachute or umbrella. It looks like there must be a high ridgeline for raising or attaching the tarp center point.
I'm assuming ?? the high line is done by throwing a line over high branches near two trees and then raising the tarp w/ it or using another line for raising the center of the tarp.
I'd like some pointers on how this is done, b/c from years of throwing lines to lift bear bags, I can imagine some frustration there :). Picts showing your technique and points are appreciated !!!

CCS Tarp Sizes -- boy what a merry-go-round
I'm thinking of the 10x14. From past experience, the 10' should fit between tighter tree spacings while the 7' on each side will afford more coverage.
Common feedback here seems to be bigger is better. I'm wondering/worrying that the 14' dimension might also be tight if the trees perpendicular to the ridgeline are too tight/close?
What's your experience and recommendation if you bought a particular size and could start over ???
For reference, we typically have 4-6 guys packs under the tarp and as you all have likely experienced, on rainy trips one can spend a considerable time under the tarp talking smart, passing a bottle, playing cards, whatever your group does in the rain :)
If I don't get the 10x14, then probably the 10x12 or 10x16 (which really concerns me w/ being too big). We tend to setup our group tarp out of the way, more in the trees or on the edge of camp.
Perhaps w/ a CCS tarp, this will change w/ many, many picts here showing the CCS tarps strung in wide open spaces. The picts look great, but experience w/ winds and rain in the BWCA make me question how they hold up or how these high, open pitches protect gear in the rain?
It's been my experience that one side oven needs to be low to the ground to get out of the rain and inevitably, it's not the side one predicted the rain would come from when pitching the tarp :).

Thanks for your input, looking forward to the discussion!
Us5Camp
(Mark)
 
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07/05/2021 04:34PM  
Butthead will likely answer all your questions when he sees your post. I learned how to do it from him.

I travel solo and use a 10x12 CCS tarp. I use the tie a rope around a rock and chuck it over as high a branch as I can method of getting the two ends of the ridge line up. I call this the "Chuck and Duck Method". While still slack, I tie a loop in the middle of the ridge line and attach a cheap aluminum carabiner to the loop. Then, attach the carabiner to the center loop of the tarp. Hoist the tarp by the two ends of the ridge line and make the ridge line taut. Tie off your ridge line ends around the trees. Finally, use some tarp ropes at each corner to tie off a tree and make the whole tarp taut. Use additional tarp ropes at non-corner loops if needed to compensate for sags that can collect water or that flap around a little. Anyway, that is how I do it. The final shape is that of a pyramid, not a parachute.

Here is a good tip for the ridge line. When you tie the loop in the ridge line, insert a finger diameter stick in the middle of the knot you make. When taking down the ridge line, remove the stick, and then proceed with undoing the knot. If you don't put the stick in the knot, the knot will get so tight that it is almost impossible to undo.

Tomster
 
jhb8426
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07/06/2021 12:28AM  
My approach is to tie the ridge line on a tree as high as I can reach, or maybe a bit lower. This is high enough to get under a tarp w/o stooping too much. Get it too high and you will have rain blowing in if there's a wind. I'd rather duck a bit than have wind blown rain.

p.s. In my experience the rain in the BWCA generally comes from the west or northwest. YMMV
 
mjmkjun
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07/06/2021 06:23AM  
You are thinking right about the 10 x 14 would be a good match for group of 4-6 persons while allowing a 7' tall back wall for wind protection with 7' overhead. My advice is to set it up with a 1 ft. ground clearance on the vertical wind wall. You'll have a 6' 'wind' wall w/7 ft high clearance which allows an 8 ft extension over the gear and hang-out area. I had a CCS 10 x 14 which I sold because it was a ridiculous overkill for a soloist. I now own a CCS 8 x 10 and a 10 x 12.
One thing you should take into account is the flexibility with CCS tarps because of the sewn-in loops. If the space is tight because of tree placements you have options of pitching it narrower, shorter, or taller with that great interior sewn-in pole loops/reinforcement.
 
07/06/2021 11:01AM  
Thanks Tom! Chuck And Duck, an excellent, descriptive, name.
My preferred setup is a fully suspended, center peak. No ridge-line or poles used.

a CCS 15x15 1.1 oz.

CCS 12x10 1.1 oz.


CCS 12x10 1.9 and Kondos 12x10 rigged together

Campmor 10x10
Center is a drop cord from an overhead branch or a line suspended from two trees as high as possible, normally the opposite corner anchor trees.
For a wind wall I have used a separate tarp.


I never worried about too large as there are still ways to use a big tarp in limited space. Often parked 4 or 5 solo paddlers and bags under a 12x10. I currently own and use 12x10 and 14x10 and still chose to go solo.
Tossing lines high up in trees is an acquired skill. I like to consider it therapy, or as "basket weaving". Have used a variety of methods from climbing (too old and fat for that now), using a tent pole set as a long pole to reach high branches, lacrosse balls and a heaving line, most often just a small bag with a few rocks in it.

butthead

 
Us5Camp
distinguished member (139)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/06/2021 01:54PM  
butthead: "Thanks Tom! Chuck And Duck, an excellent, descriptive, name.
My preferred setup is a fully suspended, center peak. No ridge-line or poles used.

a CCS 15x15 1.1 oz.

CCS 12x10 1.1 oz.


CCS 12x10 1.9 and Kondos 12x10 rigged together

Campmor 10x10
Center is a drop cord from an overhead branch or a line suspended from two trees as high as possible, normally the opposite corner anchor trees.
For a wind wall I have used a separate tarp.



I never worried about too large as there are still ways to use a big tarp in limited space. Often parked 4 or 5 solo paddlers and bags under a 12x10. I currently own and use 12x10 and 14x10 and still chose to go solo.
Tossing lines high up in trees is an acquired skill. I like to consider it therapy, or as "basket weaving". Have used a variety of methods from climbing (too old and fat for that now), using a tent pole set as a long pole to reach high branches, lacrosse balls and a heaving line, most often just a small bag with a few rocks in it.


butthead


"


Thank you Butthead for all the picts and info from you and the other reply thus far. It's been helpful and confirms my original assumption.
We are well familiar with the Chuck and Duck method and the comic relief that accompanies it !!
Any other experiences w/ pitching and tarp size observations are welcome! Keep it going !
 
Us5Camp
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07/06/2021 02:02PM  
One more question for all of you --- These pitches all appear to be perfect; trees in the right places for nice tight edges on every side.
It could be we're still a little slower than the average bear after 30+ yrs of BWCA trips, but trees seldom are where they "should be" - dam things seem to grow wherever they want ! ;)
Do you have any tricks up your sleeve for this problem, or like we've always done; simply make due the best you can. I see Tomster added his 2-bits of multiple lines at corners that don't tension w/o sag.
One other common theme I've noticed w/ CCS tarp picts: LONG guylines for each corner - maybe that's one item we've resisted, which also forces our tarps to be in the tigher confines of trees vs some of these open tarp pitches commonly seen here on the forum.
 
THEGrandRapids
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07/06/2021 04:41PM  
Two other items- The Ridgeline stuff sack was a game changer for me. I have one on my ccs 14x10 and lean3.

The other more important question you failed to ask is what color? I think everyone agrees that yellow is the best for tarps (and red canoes are the fastest)
 
portagedog09
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07/06/2021 05:09PM  
For a group that size, the 10x14 rocks. Color? White. It allows more light in when hunkered down in foul weather than yellow and reflects more light from lamps/lanterns, especially at night. I traded up to white from yellow. My $.02...

pd
 
07/06/2021 05:58PM  


Here is one set up from Long Island Lake from 10+ years ago. You can always find trees to get the tarp up and the corners tied off, unless you choose a site that is right on the shore and there are no trees around. I usually hang mine over the fire grate. Never had a problem with burn holes.

Tomster
 
schweady
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07/06/2021 08:14PM  
butthead: "...My preferred setup is a fully suspended, center peak. No ridge-line or poles used...






...Center is a drop cord from an overhead branch or a line suspended from two trees as high as possible, normally the opposite corner anchor trees..."

butthead - What lengths of cordage do you feel is plenty for the center peak and at the corners in a configuration like this? I'm thinking for a 10x14.
 
THEGrandRapids
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07/06/2021 08:19PM  
portagedog09: "For a group that size, the 10x14 rocks. Color? White. It allows more light in when hunkered down in foul weather than yellow and reflects more light from lamps/lanterns, especially at night. I traded up to white from yellow. My $.02...


pd"


Or get a yellow tarp and white lean…
 
scotttimm
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07/07/2021 09:16AM  
I used the method from this video to get my new 10x14 ccs tarp ready for our trip last week, hung between trees that were pretty darn far apart. Chuck and duck was used successfully with son's flip flop. I brought an expanding plano rod holder, which propped up the center perfectly. It fit our group of 8 really well. I LOVED this setup. Used Notch Acculine 1.75mm for corner tie outs (with hair-tie trick shown in video) and loved it. No pics of the setup, I don't think, I'll have to do some digging.
Video:
CCS Tarp "Ridge Line Setup"
 
Us5Camp
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07/07/2021 09:58AM  
Alright - you all have me sold -- closer to hitting the "order" button.
Thanks for all the comments -- keep them coming :)

CCS - Cordage: Will go w/ the reflective cordage as there's one clumsy oof in every group and well, he needs all the help he can get to stay away from tarp lines!
* Do you like his cordage in general for buying extra? Or better options available?

Order so far:
* 10x14' 1.1 Tundra Tarp -- Color: leaning Yellow, other choice = White
* Ridgeline Stuff Sack -- I'm a fan of snake skins for my hammock tarp and love the skin Simply Light Designs sells to swallow your hammock & quilts for when away from camp.
* Extra cordage ??
* ???? Not sure what else from his store I may throw in -- pretty well setup after 30yrs of BWCA trips -- Fav's you like?
* Stakes -- I know he's a fan of the Easton stakes after having met Dan at the last pre-COVID Winter Camping Symposium -- may get a few to try as this thing may take some wind !! I use small stakes for my hammock tarp either in Ti pegs or the discontinued MSR mini stakes, forget what they are called, but they are simple, rectangular aluminum -- I've found the smaller/stronger the better in the BWCA for working around rocks and roots, better than the triangular or Y-stakes.
-- Your experience w/ Dan's Easton stakes in the BWCA. In normal soil, I can see it, in the BWCA I wonder if you'd ever get them in the hard ground?
* Other things to throw out there?

Here's a pict of my BWCA hammock setup -- just to add a pict :) As you can see, I really don't need an extra tarp if camping solo, but for group trips, it's nice to have a place to weather a storm or hang out telling the same ol' stories every year :) !!
 
07/07/2021 10:26AM  
schweady: "
butthead: "...My preferred setup is a fully suspended, center peak. No ridge-line or poles used...






...Center is a drop cord from an overhead branch or a line suspended from two trees as high as possible, normally the opposite corner anchor trees..."

butthead - What lengths of cordage do you feel is plenty for the center peak and at the corners in a configuration like this? I'm thinking for a 10x14.
"


I might have 1 piece of 3mm cord at 50 feet, more often I'll add sections of cordage as needed. I like to use the 3mm 1/8 inch size and buy from CCS and other sources for color variation. CCS is sold in 80 foot sections and other sources usually 100 foot. Other than an occasional 40-50 foot chunk, I cut a hank of cordage into 4 pieces, 20-25 feet in length. I probably average enough cordage to hang 2 tarps. Example, a section of 50 feet and 9 sections of 20 feet. Plenty to utilize widely spaced anchor points, or other needs.

butthead
 
scotttimm
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07/07/2021 10:28AM  
Us5Camp: "Alright - you all have me sold -- closer to hitting the "order" button.
Thanks for all the comments -- keep them coming :)


CCS - Cordage: Will go w/ the reflective cordage as there's one clumsy oof in every group and well, he needs all the help he can get to stay away from tarp lines!
* Do you like his cordage in general for buying extra? Or better options available?


Order so far:
* 10x14' 1.1 Tundra Tarp -- Color: leaning Yellow, other choice = White
* Ridgeline Stuff Sack -- I'm a fan of snake skins for my hammock tarp and love the skin Simply Light Designs sells to swallow your hammock & quilts for when away from camp.
* Extra cordage ??
* ???? Not sure what else from his store I may throw in -- pretty well setup after 30yrs of BWCA trips -- Fav's you like?
* Stakes -- I know he's a fan of the Easton stakes after having met Dan at the last pre-COVID Winter Camping Symposium -- may get a few to try as this thing may take some wind !! I use small stakes for my hammock tarp either in Ti pegs or the discontinued MSR mini stakes, forget what they are called, but they are simple, rectangular aluminum -- I've found the smaller/stronger the better in the BWCA for working around rocks and roots, better than the triangular or Y-stakes.
-- Your experience w/ Dan's Easton stakes in the BWCA. In normal soil, I can see it, in the BWCA I wonder if you'd ever get them in the hard ground?
* Other things to throw out there?


Here's a pict of my BWCA hammock setup -- just to add a pict :) As you can see, I really don't need an extra tarp if camping solo, but for group trips, it's nice to have a place to weather a storm or hang out telling the same ol' stories every year :) !!
"


You might want to call Dan to see what colors he has in stock. I seem to remember seeing a FB post where he said colors were limited until he got more in. I had him make us a blue and white "pinwheel" pattern (checkered) with our 10x14 and we love it. I got the 1.9oz because I just didn't have another $100 in the budget. I just got his regular line (yellow) and use it for the ridgeline, then bought the Acculine (cheaper version of "Zing It") for the corner tie outs and it worked really well, much lighter weight, but use slip knots or you may never get knots back out. I also made my own ridgeline sack with a compression stuff sack and a grommit packet I got from Walmart, worked great.
 
tomo
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07/07/2021 10:46AM  
My two cents:
I have the 10 x 12 and like it very much. Perfect for solo or two people but works for up to four. I use a center ridgeline most frequently with 50 feet of cord for ridgeline and 20-25 feet for other tie outs. I prefer zing it to Dan's cord, and also use Dutchware hardware and nama claws instead of prussiks/knots, though I know how to tie the knots should I need them.

Agree the ridgeline stuff sack is awesome.

This video pretty much captures my approach:

ridgeline set-up
 
mjmkjun
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07/07/2021 12:53PM  
Don't hesitate to call or email Dan Cooke with any questions on a CCS tarp. He can fill you in on what's stocked/already made for quick order fulfillment if you need.
All those pictures of perfectly pitched tarps are something to admire, eh? haha I haven't pitched one so tight or so perfectly yet.
Here's a fun page for you.
 
07/07/2021 01:34PM  
Just a heads up, it can get really hot under the yellow 1.1 oz. tarp when the sun is beating on it. For rainy and/or cool shoulder season trips I like my yellow tarp because it's cheerful, but for summer trips I only bring my green tarp.
 
mgraber
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07/07/2021 08:04PM  
This may have already been mentioned. You don't need to have ultra long tie-outs if you just keep a bag of extensions individually wrapped with hair ties with a loop on the ends. You can quickly add an extension to the loop in the end of your tie-outs without tying any knots, and just as easy to remove.
 
schweady
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07/08/2021 06:47AM  
mgraber: "This may have already been mentioned. You don't need to have ultra long tie-outs if you just keep a bag of extensions individually wrapped with hair ties with a loop on the ends. You can quickly add an extension to the loop in the end of your tie-outs without tying any knots, and just as easy to remove."

I just started doing this, but often get lazy and wind up with a difficult-to-untie knot. Can you - or anyone else - reference some good quick-release line extension knots?
 
Us5Camp
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07/08/2021 07:06AM  
schweady: "
mgraber: "This may have already been mentioned. You don't need to have ultra long tie-outs if you just keep a bag of extensions individually wrapped with hair ties with a loop on the ends. You can quickly add an extension to the loop in the end of your tie-outs without tying any knots, and just as easy to remove."

I just started doing this, but often get lazy and wind up with a difficult-to-untie knot. Can you - or anyone else - reference some good quick-release line extension knots?
"


As the original poster and someone who doesn't regularly splice two lengths together, I'll let others reply. However, also as someone who never remembers more than 2 knots at any given time and the trusted "dork" knot, I carry this app on my phone. Offline - it allows time in the bwca to look up and practice knots. It is pretty cool, you can step through each step of the knot and save fav's to work on. I'm really focusing on having 3-4 in my recall to cover most needs.
https://www.animatedknots.com/

The poster who mentioned extensions, also mentioned loops ( a bowline perhaps) in the end of his hanks, so probably has something else up his sleeve if only a larkshead, but w/o a loop on each end the double fisherman's bend would seem to be one candidate.
https://www.animatedknots.com/double-fishermans-bend-knot
 
07/08/2021 08:09AM  
schweady: "
mgraber: "This may have already been mentioned. You don't need to have ultra long tie-outs if you just keep a bag of extensions individually wrapped with hair ties with a loop on the ends. You can quickly add an extension to the loop in the end of your tie-outs without tying any knots, and just as easy to remove."

I just started doing this, but often get lazy and wind up with a difficult-to-untie knot. Can you - or anyone else - reference some good quick-release line extension knots?
"

I keep 10-12 foot lengths tied to my tarp and carry about 3-4 12 foot extensions in the tarp bag (or often one or two in my pocket). I add extensions on using a simple square knot, and have never had any trouble untie-ing them.
 
mjmkjun
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07/08/2021 08:21AM  
Zing it! or Lash it! packs down to nothing and strong. Pricey, though.
On THIS page I have used the ThreeBulls 1.8 mm reflective guyline and I like it too. Holds good, ties easily and shows up good at night.
 
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