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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum Listening Point - General Discussion Stuffer or Roller-which are you? |
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07/17/2021 09:47PM
Growing up I alway's was taught to roll and fold my tent real nice like so being rolled up it may fit in the carrying bag. Many old tents tho didn't have carrying bags.
Sleeping bag-same thing. Switched from a roller to a stuffer.
I bet now most people are getting to be stuffy people.
Sleeping bag-same thing. Switched from a roller to a stuffer.
I bet now most people are getting to be stuffy people.
07/18/2021 12:08AM
Both.
Always start with tent & tarp folded / rolled.
As trip goes on I sometimes stuff or even leave loose to fill up space in a Duluth Pack.
A saggy pack can be miserable.
Always start with tent & tarp folded / rolled.
As trip goes on I sometimes stuff or even leave loose to fill up space in a Duluth Pack.
A saggy pack can be miserable.
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly
07/18/2021 04:03PM
I use to roll but became a stuffer when I made my 1.1 oz silnylon tarp. It never touches the ground and never gets all that dirt and stuff on it when wet. When I got my Nemo Losi tent it came with a burrito bag for stuffing the tent and fly, and it’s so much nicer and faster. I just wish I could stuff my air mattress too.
07/19/2021 03:02PM
It totally depends on the item. Sleeping bags get stuffed (down-fill)
CCS tarps and Lean get stuffed.
Hammock stuffed
Snowtrekker-rolled with poles.
Actually, most tents get rolled with poles inside.
Expeds rolled up very tight because they make the stuff sacks too dang small.
Js rolled and stuffed ;)
CCS tarps and Lean get stuffed.
Hammock stuffed
Snowtrekker-rolled with poles.
Actually, most tents get rolled with poles inside.
Expeds rolled up very tight because they make the stuff sacks too dang small.
Js rolled and stuffed ;)
07/19/2021 05:33PM
Pinetree: "Growing up I alway's was taught to roll and fold my tent real nice like so being rolled up it may fit in the carrying bag. Many old tents tho didn't have carrying bags.
Sleeping bag-same thing. Switched from a roller to a stuffer.
I bet now most people are getting to be stuffy people."
I always stuff my Eureka Timberline. I think the material retains some "memory" and so I don't fold it...ie: not creasled repeatedly in the same area.
My big canvas Eureka 12x12 wal tent is different. There's no way I could stuff it so that does get folded.
Sleeping bag - stuffed.
They are called "stuff bag" for a reason. ;)
07/20/2021 05:01AM
A few years ago MIT did some silly research into crumpling paper over and over, the equivalent of stuffing. The research found that the tiny paper folds tend to be in the same place over and over, so after a bunch of crumpling, the entire piece of paper was weaker because of the number of tiny folds that had been folded multiple times. Applying that to a tarp or tent, one might surmise that stuffing will weaken all of the fabric more than folding and just keeping an eye on the folds, sealing when necessary. Also, we all know tents and tarps never fold the same way twice. :)
On the other hand, sleeping bags are filled with fibers that you don't want all nice and flattened out, so stuff away.
In the end, we have stuffers and folders on these boards and if either was a problem, we wouldn't do it.
~M
On the other hand, sleeping bags are filled with fibers that you don't want all nice and flattened out, so stuff away.
In the end, we have stuffers and folders on these boards and if either was a problem, we wouldn't do it.
~M
"Time's fun when you're having flies."
07/20/2021 09:07AM
I stuff everything except my sleeping pad, and only because I can't. Stuffing causes mainly random edges and fold points. Rolling causes consistent 180 degree folds and stiffer edges that wear more. It just causes too much wear and tear when the same creases are used over and over, then that crease in on the end where the rolled tent comes in contact, through the stuff sack, with the ground, other objects in the pack, and whatever else you are transporting it with. Stuffing doesn't have the same corners that rolling does and conforms to fit the space better. It's a no-brainer.
07/20/2021 11:06AM
A1t2o: "Stuffing causes mainly random edges and fold points. Rolling causes consistent 180 degree folds and stiffer edges that wear more. It just causes too much wear and tear when the same creases are used over and over, then that crease in on the end where the rolled tent comes in contact, through the stuff sack, with the ground, other objects in the pack, and whatever else you are transporting it with. Stuffing doesn't have the same corners that rolling does and conforms to fit the space better. It's a no-brainer."
This makes sense to me, but so does the opposite argument that has been made (that fewer and more concentrated folds are easier to repair). Does anyone have any data on this? I doubt any individual has enough tent experience to make anything but anecdotal conclusions. I'd think a tarp or tent manufacturer would have enough experience.
The MIT study is interesting, but it how does crumpling compare to 180 degree folds? And is paper a good proxy for camping gear? I wouldn't think most camping gear forms creases like paper which would cause it to fold in the same places.
07/20/2021 12:16PM
Chuckles: "A1t2o: "Stuffing causes mainly random edges and fold points. Rolling causes consistent 180 degree folds and stiffer edges that wear more. It just causes too much wear and tear when the same creases are used over and over, then that crease in on the end where the rolled tent comes in contact, through the stuff sack, with the ground, other objects in the pack, and whatever else you are transporting it with. Stuffing doesn't have the same corners that rolling does and conforms to fit the space better. It's a no-brainer."
This makes sense to me, but so does the opposite argument that has been made (that fewer and more concentrated folds are easier to repair). Does anyone have any data on this? I doubt any individual has enough tent experience to make anything but anecdotal conclusions. I'd think a tarp or tent manufacturer would have enough experience.
The MIT study is interesting, but it how does crumpling compare to 180 degree folds? And is paper a good proxy for camping gear? I wouldn't think most camping gear forms creases like paper which would cause it to fold in the same places. "
The idea is more that we are avoiding a build up of wear and tear in certain spots that might lose their waterproofing or even wear through before the rest of the material degrades. If you spread that out, it should take longer for defects to form. Typically, you don't repair tent at this point anyway, except for a coat of waterproofing. If you are wearing through the material, you probably just get a new one.
I just know that I'd rather see it well used and completely worn out rather than specific fail points while the rest looks to be in good condition still. At least with the first option I would feel like I got my money's worth out of it.
07/20/2021 04:52PM
"This makes sense to me, but so does the opposite argument that has been made (that fewer and more concentrated folds are easier to repair). Does anyone have any data on this? I doubt any individual has enough tent experience to make anything but anecdotal conclusions. I'd think a tarp or tent manufacturer would have enough experience.
The MIT study is interesting, but it how does crumpling compare to 180 degree folds? And is paper a good proxy for camping gear? I wouldn't think most camping gear forms creases like paper which would cause it to fold in the same places. "
Good question. But when I stuff my tarp, I can see tiny folds. If I can see tiny folds, then chances would seem to be that when I stuff it again, it will naturally fold where those tiny folds are. But I wonder how many of those are 180 degrees? There outta be another study! :)
"Time's fun when you're having flies."
07/21/2021 03:06PM
I roll my tent, poles safely in the middle. Then it fits right in the bag for packing. As for creasing in the same spots over and over again, it's unlikely I'm folding in the exact same spots every time.
I roll my sleeping bags when they're stored away or if I have lots of time, but during the trip when breaking down camp for the day's journey I'm likely to stuff the bag.
I roll my sleeping bags when they're stored away or if I have lots of time, but during the trip when breaking down camp for the day's journey I'm likely to stuff the bag.
"Enjoy every sandwich"
07/21/2021 08:22PM
Your research contradicts my preferred research, and I reject it. Nay, I rebuke it.
Darn it. That does make sense though. Sigh. Well, my husband will be pleased.
Darn it. That does make sense though. Sigh. Well, my husband will be pleased.
Mesaba: "A few years ago MIT did some silly research into crumpling paper over and over, the equivalent of stuffing. The research found that the tiny paper folds tend to be in the same place over and over, so after a bunch of crumpling, the entire piece of paper was weaker because of the number of tiny folds that had been folded multiple times. Applying that to a tarp or tent, one might surmise that stuffing will weaken all of the fabric more than folding and just keeping an eye on the folds, sealing when necessary. Also, we all know tents and tarps never fold the same way twice. :)
On the other hand, sleeping bags are filled with fibers that you don't want all nice and flattened out, so stuff away.
In the end, we have stuffers and folders on these boards and if either was a problem, we wouldn't do it.
~M"
07/22/2021 09:38PM
Tents and tarps are not paper, paper is stiff. I'd bet money the tiny folds from stuffing a tarp or tent are also never in the same place, same as your claim about folds. I usually sell my tents after about 10 years of hard use and get something newer, but have never seen a shred of evidence that stuffing harmed my tarps or tent.
So many fish,so little time
07/23/2021 11:40AM
mgraber: "Tents and tarps are not paper, paper is stiff. I'd bet money the tiny folds from stuffing a tarp or tent are also never in the same place, same as your claim about folds. I usually sell my tents after about 10 years of hard use and get something newer, but have never seen a shred of evidence that stuffing harmed my tarps or tent."
Yep, the same with rolling.
I guess for me the disorderliness and ill-fit inside tent bag are what would bug me most about stuffing.
"Enjoy every sandwich"
07/25/2021 10:41PM
Fold tent and fly to about the size of the back of the food pack and put the food barrels in front and fill in with the rest. It helps cushion the back of the pack. The mostly deflated sleeping pads are folded and used to cushion the back of the other 2 packs.
"Geography is just physics slowed down, with a couple of trees stuck in it." Terry Pratchett
07/30/2021 08:20PM
Depends on the tent. I stuff most tents, but my 1-person Bowfin Tarptent has to be rolled because it has some integrated pole type parts and the stuff sack is super long and skinny. I also do a rough fold on my CCS tarp because I like to stick it down along the shoulders of my pack.
Sleeping bags stuff better than roll IMO unless they are a slumber party bag :)
Sleeping bags stuff better than roll IMO unless they are a slumber party bag :)
07/31/2021 09:53AM
Stuff Quilts and put the Tarp into tarp sleeves. I keep one end of my Hammock attached to the tree and roll it up before disconnecting and stuffing into bag (faster).
When used, I stuff the Tent and Sleeping Bag. I fold my Sleep Pad, and use it against my back inside the pack.
I roll my clothes, but stuff my down and other poufy items.
When used, I stuff the Tent and Sleeping Bag. I fold my Sleep Pad, and use it against my back inside the pack.
I roll my clothes, but stuff my down and other poufy items.
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