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PaddleFam
member (5)member
  
07/30/2021 11:27AM  
Looking for feedback / thoughts / insights based on the following. Thank you in advance!

The People
* 2 adults (39 year old decent shape aunt; 44 year old very good shape dad)
* 2 boys (age 10, age 6 - troopers and active but, you know, 10 and 6)
* First visit for all involved (3 from Michigan, Aunt from Twin Cities)

The Animal(s)
* potential to bring one or two dogs (40 - 60 pound range)
Question - Better to simplify and leave at home for first time? (I am sure simpler...)

The EP
* Lake One (EP 30)

The Dates
* Enter Friday, August 20, exit Monday, August 23 (3 nights, 4 days)

The Potential Routes:
Option 1 - Lake One to Insula, going through Bridge and Fire (trying to avoid extensive burned out area / time even though longer portages). An out-and-back route (exiting at EP 30).

Option 2 - Lake One to / around / through the Kishawaiki triangle, then through Gabbro and either out one of those exit points or on through Bald Eagle and out at 84, Snake River. One-way journey.

OTHER INFORMATION
* My thought is best to do one giant four person canoe vs 2 x 2. Ultimately moving less weight through the water and across land vs two canoes, and when push comes to shove one canoe powered by two adults not relying on 2 canoes each powered by an adult. Am I not thinking about this correctly? With one canoe the boys' paddling is a "bonus". With two canoes, it's necessary (more so). I dont want to rely on that (though they love to paddle on calm lakes on nice days).

Concerns:
* Doing too much.
* Doing too little.
* Campsites taken on planned routes (which one would be more likely to avoid that problem?)
* Low Water
* Avoiding burned out areas (one thing to pass through, another to spend the entire first trip in and about those areas).
* All the stuff I dont know to be thinking about!

Thank you in advance for any insights and thoughts!!
 
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cmanimal
distinguished member (123)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/30/2021 12:14PM  
I can't speak to all your items, especially since I haven't been to the lake one area.
I can talk to first trips with kids.

The first trip with both of my kids was about 10 years ago putting them at 9 and 11, with my dad ( low 60's) and I (40ish). we followed a similar pattern for the first few years all being 4 day 3 night trips.

We would do one portage and one lake, and then set a base camp to day trip from. Some time the portage was first and others we started on the lake, and then did the portage. The lakes and portages were as appropriate as we could find for their abilities.

We used two canoes (Wenona boundary waters or Souris river Quatico for the stability) and when the kids paddled great, and when they didn't fine.
They were given a packing list and were responsible to pack and carry their personal gear on portages and be responsible for it in camp and while loading the canoe. They also needed to help with meals (cooking and cleaning). Dad and I took care of the rest. The point being that they were active participants and not just along for the ride.

Once they were 12 and 14 we started making easy loop routes.

I feel that for a first trip with kids, working to guarantee success for them is what gets you to trip #2 and beyond.

2020 is the first October trip with out my "kids" as they were both busy with college, and it felt weird.

hope you have a great trip, and many more to come.
07/30/2021 12:31PM  
Great questions and I think you will receive some fantastic advice from other posters.

Some thoughts I have:
+ I am not sure Fire lake connects with Insula, so I think you might as well go through lake 1,2,3,4 and Hudson to get there. Hudson is a pretty sad looking lake due to the fire, but once you get through the burn it's pretty exciting.
+ Lake one to the section of Insula that is past the burn could be a long paddle for first timers. The amount of islands can make it a confusing route as well. But there are some really great sites in the NE section. It's worth going past the burn area
+ I traveled with a dog for the first time this year (someone elses dog in their canoe). It went much better than I was expecting, but I don't think I would want to worry about a dog or two for my first trip.
+ The Kawishiwi river area sounds like it may be a great first time trip. Not too difficult
+ Lake 1,2,3 tend to be very busy. Consider looking for campsites early in the day on those lakes
+ Have a great trip!
airmorse
distinguished member(3420)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/30/2021 01:46PM  
I'll comment on the dogs. If the dogs do not have excellent recall in all situations I would not bring them. If they are noise sensitive like with thunderstorms I would not bring them.

There have unfortunately been many dogs that have been brought to the BW only to be lost and never seen again.

If you do choose to bring them keep them on a leash while portaging. Also, if they have not been in a canoe b4 you can test them on a local lake in a canoe to see how they do b4 committing.
07/30/2021 01:49PM  
Checking rec.gov all permits for Lake One are taken the 10 days before and after your entry date. Lake One also is a popular day trip EP. It will be busy.
One or two canoes would depend on the experience and endurance of the available paddlers. I took my son on his first trip at 7, At first he was gung ho, but endurance faded. By 10 he was a trusted bow paddler.
I usually start with a short first day to shake out the kinks and decide that night how far to go the next day. With the crowds I would plan on starting early and staying on Lake Two the first night.
Fire has limited campsites and a long detour I would avoid. Do check out the old bridge bases at the entry to the arm of Hudson going up to Fire.
Navigation with the islands and peninsulas is tricky. Use maps and compass or GPS and always know where you are. Also, the Lake One approach to the portage to Lake two is a boulder field, go slow and bow paddler stay alert.
Regrowth from the fire is special, not something to avoid. Admittedly, Hudson got hit pretty hard. But it is a great learning opportunity for the boys.
Have a great trip.
tumblehome
distinguished member(2912)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/30/2021 03:00PM  
Not too thrilled about your two dogs.
We can rehash all the lost dog reports including the one(s) that were never recovered last season.

You CAN do too much
You CAN'T do too little

A four person canoe is right out. Take that off your ideas. Perhaps don't over think the trip. It will rarely go the way you plan. Plan more flexibility.

Due to water levels, the snake river, more like a creek, will be very hard to navigate upstream and completely impossible in a four person canoe. It is not even passable in such a canoe when the water is high.

Please read up on leave no trace, campsite etiquette, and life preservers worn 100% of the time on the water
PaddleFam
member (5)member
  
07/30/2021 03:39PM  
Thanks for all the insights!

* relative to the dogs - confirming what I thought I was going to hear and suspected, will leave them home;

* Hudson particularly burnt out - agree it could be interesting to explore and open to surprises but if I was taking one trip to Germany I wouldnt focus on a bombed out WWII city - might be interesting eventually but not my top choice must see on first introduction trip, so again, good to know about Hudson!

* The Snake River Exit Point - that sounds like 100% no with water low and getting lower, good stuff;

* Thanks for the pro-tip on the Lake 1 to Lake 2 portage / boulders;

* and the point about not over-planning is a good one. Have been at the "dad game" long enough now to know forcing people to stick to a "death paddle" isnt going to work just to check some itenerary off;

* Finally, I see the same information about Lake One, hell, ALL of the entry points, being basically 100% permitted both for days before and after. I am a little worried about a "death paddle" to get far enough to find a campsite, but hey, we'll figure it out :-)

Thanks!
PaddleFam
member (5)member
  
07/30/2021 03:47PM  
I understand a lot would be lost in terms of maneuverability with a four person canoe, certainly, and not "challenging" bc you guys know and I dont, but it seems just as a matter of weight to me that a single say 65 pound canoe beats two 42 pound canoes by almost 20 pounds, both pushing through the water as well as portaging. Just want to understand why a four person is a really bad choice. I mean, I would rather move two chairs than one huge couch, even if the couch technically weighs a little less than the chairs in the aggregate... so it can make sense to me.
cmanimal
distinguished member (123)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/30/2021 04:13PM  
The only 4 person canoe I have experience with is the Wenonah MN4. like the MN3 and 2 it goes in a straight line very well with experienced paddlers. Basically what the hull was designed to do. There is no rocker so it doesn't turn as well as other canoes with rocker. It also isn't as stable, meaning that a quick move by a kid or dog can put you in the water. Of course that can happen with any canoe, but there is less forgiveness with that hull design, vs one with a broader beam.

The group of 4 paddlers that were attempting to break the Mississippi river speed record even swamped their mn4 a few times this summer. And I'd consider them uber experienced. But again the right hull for their trip.

Also with a long canoe it can be harder to portage, maneuvering around bends in the trail, over hanging branches etc.

I have borrowed canoes from Piragis to try them out (other outfitters probably would also be accommodating). If your going to be in Ely a day or two before your trip you may want to contact your outfitter of choice to see if a few of your choices are available to try and then pick one for your trip. But don't be surprised with a late august trip that finding any canoe to rent will be a challenge if you haven't reserved one already.

There was a point in time due to age and ability of our group I did double portage with the canoes. while the others doubled the packs. It was nice to walk the portage with out the 17' hat
tumblehome
distinguished member(2912)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/30/2021 07:05PM  
May I add that exploring fire burns is fascinating, educational, and inspiring.
I walk burns every year, some of my walks are through the same places that burned years ago. Each season, the fire scars disappear a little more.

A burned area is almost unrecognizable to the untrained eye 20 years later. Forest diversity is dependent on burns. Don’t worry about permit availability before or after your day. It’s irrelevant during the summer season. If you do Lake One you will see a lot of the Pagami burn, and will be astounded to see Aspen and birch trees more than 20’ high. It’s impressive what nature does. The forest floor is full of white pine and jack pine all racing to reach the sun.

Tom
straighthairedcurly
distinguished member(1923)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/30/2021 08:00PM  
Our first family trip with our son (age 13 at the time) was going in Lake One and doing the Kawishiwi triangle. We had 3 days, 2 nights. It was 2 very experienced and in shape adults, plus my son all in a tandem canoe. It was almost our last family trip because our son's idea of a good time was to paddle/portage for about 2-3 hours and then spend the afternoon exploring and swimming.

My recommendations:
1) Leave the dogs home
2) Shorten your route. Kids are easily entertained around the campsite.
3) I have seen many families put 2 smaller kids on the center seat of a 3-person canoe. Or use the idea posted of doing 2 canoes but only traveling 1-2 lakes a day. But only if both adults are strong paddlers in case wind becomes a factor.
4) Do not be afraid of burn areas. Often campsites in those area still have a shady area that was preserved during the fire fighting. And burn areas often result in a LOT more wildlife sitings and some great views. My son just home from a 29 day trip and he said, "I have a whole new appreciation for burn areas. They are really cool."

scotttimm
distinguished member(647)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/31/2021 10:40AM  
I wrote a trip report on Lake One to Insula from four years ago, with kids and a dog. We don't bring the dog anymore, as she now takes off at night and we are terrified of losing her. Plus the flies and bugs really get to her, I just don't think it's worth it. I agree on the slow down, less lakes/enjoy more strategy. Getting to Insula in one day is doable, but may take a long time depending on how fast you go. Get as early a start as possible - this area gets crowded. First couple portages will be busy and campsites will fill fast. Use the maps on this website to look at potential campsites.

Here's my trip report.
Fearlessleader
distinguished member (177)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
07/31/2021 10:48PM  
Have been through this area many times and I recommend you read again what Straithairedcurly said.
With kids and a short trip planned you should start early and look early for a good campsite. If navigating on the lakes is new to you, it can be extremely confusing and take far longer than expected. I have met other canoers who spent the whole day circling Lake One looking for the portage to Lake Two.
Even if you’re camped on Lake One the day trip through Confusion Lake to the Kawishiwi River is a beautiful area.
Keep it simple and let the kids really enjoy their trip.
TrebleHook
senior member (69)senior membersenior member
  
08/08/2021 07:43AM  
PaddleFam: "I understand a lot would be lost in terms of maneuverability with a four person canoe, certainly, and not "challenging" bc you guys know and I dont, but it seems just as a matter of weight to me that a single say 65 pound canoe beats two 42 pound canoes by almost 20 pounds, both pushing through the water as well as portaging. Just want to understand why a four person is a really bad choice. I mean, I would rather move two chairs than one huge couch, even if the couch technically weighs a little less than the chairs in the aggregate... so it can make sense to me."


A lot of great feedback as always from all the experts on here so I only want to comment on the one area I have experience with. On our first trip to BWCA 12 years ago with my wife and two kids (6 & 8) we took the MN4. It absolutely worked great and allowed us to stay together and handle one day of higher winds with two strong paddlers. The considerations are that you have to keep it pointed where you want to go as the wind can turn you easily and portaging the long canoe is definitely fun! The proof is in the outcome and our family of five now is going back next week for our 11th trip in the same area as you. I would not change our first decision to rent the MN4 as the BWCA has shaped our lives and connected us to nature with that canoe forever being a big part of those first memories! Just keep telling yourself "the journey is what is important, not the destination". You will have your plans change, get frustrated at something, not get the campsite you want but in the future you will only remember the good parts??
PaddleFam
member (5)member
  
08/08/2021 08:51AM  
So I took everyone's advice here *except* I stuck with my gut instinct on the 4 person canoe - a Bell Windstar 20' four person, so I am glad to see this note.

Also - great counsel to go with the flow and not get hung up on the plan to the T. It really doesn't matter.
 
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