BWCA Is this typical? Boundary Waters COVID-19 Information and Discussion
Chat Rooms (0 Chatting)  |  Search  |   Login/Join
* For the benefit of the community, commercial posting is not allowed.
Boundary Waters Quetico Forum
   COVID-19 Information and Discussion
      Is this typical?     
 Forum Sponsor

Author

Text

billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/13/2021 05:47PM  
I'm worried this is typical of many rural hospitals. Summary: 27% of this already understaffed hospital's employees are being terminated because they won't get vaccinated, and therefore closing maternity.

vaccine mandate
 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
andym
distinguished member(5166)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/13/2021 07:18PM  
Note: they weren’t terminated. They resigned and will be welcomed back if they change their minds. And I doubt it is typical. We will have to see if other hospitals report similar problems.
 
OCDave
distinguished member(606)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/13/2021 07:57PM  
billconner: "I'm worried this is typical of many rural hospitals. Summary: 27% of this already understaffed hospital's employees are being terminated because they won't get vaccinated, and therefore closing maternity.


vaccine mandate "


Both my spouse and I have worked in hospitals for the past 2 decades. I would attest that while anti-vaccine sentiment is not typical among most hospital workers, Obstetric nurses, Labor and Delivery nurses and Postpartum care nurses harbor the highest percentage of anti-vaccine advocates of any other group of hospital workers. I can only speculate as to why.

EDIT: I will add that in my department we have a small group of hold-outs. I don't know if gender/age is a factor but these holdouts are all women aged 48-58 years.

 
Jackfish
Moderator
 
09/13/2021 08:09PM  
andym: "Note: they weren’t terminated. They resigned and will be welcomed back if they change their minds. "
What Andy said.
 
billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/14/2021 06:52AM  
My mistake. They would have been terminated if I read the "mandate" correctly. Not sure why some choose resignation and some choose to be terminated.

Choose to be fired
 
Mocha
distinguished member(7575)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/14/2021 07:53AM  
What advice do these medical people give patients when asked about the vaccine? Many people consider their medical professional the person most knowledgeable after God.

Most of these people were fully vaccinated as children and did their parents question the safety of those vaccines?

Every medication has a list a mile long of possible side effects, to cover their butts most likely.

Nothing in life is fool proof. I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about their rights being taken away, and especially "God given rights" which is totally ridiculous statement if you really think about it.

Perhaps employers should say if you choose to not be vaccinated and end up infecting a vaccinated person, then you lose your job. I'm waiting for the lawsuits to start from vaccinated people suing an unvaccinated person who they got Covid from (a second time). What could their case be? Intentional harm? And if they end up dying? Hmmm

This virus and it's variants will be around a long time, it's hard to believe people care less about that fact.
 
Jackfish
Moderator
 
09/14/2021 09:37AM  
Mocha: "What advice do these medical people give patients when asked about the vaccine?"
A great question.

We have a neighbor who is a family doctor. She shared with us that when some patients come in for an appointment, they'll ask her about the Covid vaccine. (She is vaccinated.) She will share all the positive attributes of getting vaccinated, etc., but then the patient will start rattling off all the reasons they don't think they need it, or shouldn't get it, or whatever... basically ignoring everything that their educated and knowledgeable family doctor has to say. In other words, they don't want her opinion, they just want to hear themselves argue.
 
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4989)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/14/2021 03:22PM  
These anti vaxx folk forget many things.
1. The economic cost of Covid. Sure you want a job with insurance. If you aren't vaccinated you should pay more. Much more.
2. Medical staffing burnout. Many have had enough. They are tired.
3. You have choices sure. Get Covid, Get Vaxxed. The variants WILL find you. You may get the virus with vaccine but its going to be a bad cold and you can stay home.
4. That people that are unvaxxed die about ten times more than vaxxed. Death is sabotage to your party. Nobody that I have heard of has ever said that dying is worth it; glad I did not get the jab.
5. You had an MI or are going to deliver a baby? Guzzle the aspirin/boil water.
Like a certain Christmas story there is no room at the inn of hospital , And just who is going to pay for it? Oh you like government handouts now?

rant over I am disgusted. Yes we have hospitals that have curtailed elective surgeries. Those who need joint replacements regard them as essential.
 
billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/14/2021 05:55PM  
So overwhelmingly people who post here are clearly pro-vax, but just as clearly a significant portion - in the 25% - are refusing, including healthcare workers and are willing to quit their job or be fired. My surfing suggests this is widespread. Equally confusing, females seem to be in the majority, the usually more sensible gender.

More weirdness.
 
Unas10
distinguished member(1464)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/14/2021 07:04PM  
billconner: "So overwhelmingly people who post here are clearly pro-vax, but just as clearly a significant portion - in the 25% - are refusing, including healthcare workers and are willing to quit their job or be fired. My surfing suggests this is widespread. Equally confusing, females seem to be in the majority, the usually more sensible gender.


More weirdness."


So maybe you should seek out and listen to some of them. I am sure there are some whackjobs amongst them, just as there are whackjobs on the pro-vax side. But there are also many out there that have valid issues with being forced to take the jab.

Also, this deal does not exist in a vacuum. Abuse of government power has run rampant for the last 20 months or so. The general attitude of so many in power seems to be ; "Just shut up and do what we tell you, it makes it that much easier for the next "public health" emergency.
 
09/14/2021 09:46PM  
As far as typical? I can only say my personal experience and statistics.

In my organization of 27,000 employees frontline health care workers that have direct contact with patients we are 98% vaccinated. The hold outs are mostly those with lower education or no background in research or reading research. Typically LPNs some RNs. Not a knock on those professions but those are the employees that are more likely to refuse. 99% of the MDs are vaccinated. I only know one of those MDs that has refused and to be honest he is just plain weird…we’ll be better off with out him and so will our patients. 100% of our infectious disease and epidemiologists Providers are vaccinated.

In my building which is rehab only we have 55 employees only one is not vaccinated.I personally respect her, she is great at her job. She said she did her “own research” on the vaccine and still refuses. When I asked about why she doesn’t trust our researchers and our infectious disease experts…she said she has better information. When she disclosed her sources they were “Doctors” that aren’t actually Doctors…have never treated a patient…have no or minimal actual medical background…how do you argue with this? It’s nonsensical. I am just sorry there is no way an average Joe can have the same access to ACTUAL research on a disease than experts that actually are on the frontlines treating it and doing ACTUAL research. My employee is not in the lab doing research she is reading opinions from idiots IMHO. I suspect for her it is politics. She thinks this was a conspiracy to get Trump out. To believe that you would have believe 99% of MDs are Liberals and in on the conspiracy…statistical speaking that is impossible and defies logic or even basic ability to critically think. I am really frustrated because this is a person who is normally smart and makes good decisions.

Got news for people the vaccine mandates aren’t going away. They will get worse if anything. To piggy back off of Mocha’s post…no company is scared of getting sued for requiring vaccinations…company’s are smart…they have looked at the research…their lawyers are telling them they are going to get sued if they don’t require vaccinations. If one person catches COVID at a company and heaven forbid it is brought home to a family member and that employee or a family member dies or has permanent problems they could be held financially responsible. That is what they fear. The more places that require it the more others will jump onboard because each business that adds the requirement the more it looks like a company that doesn’t is creating unnecessary risk to their employees. The anti-vaxers can believe who they want, look at all the fake research they want…can threaten legal action…no one fears their legal action…AND that still won’t change their minds…

T
 
09/14/2021 10:52PM  
My brother is in sales and his company isn’t requiring the vaccine, but if you aren’t vaccinated you can no longer do face to face meetings, come in to the office, you have to work from home. If you get COVID and you are unvaccinated you have to use your PTO/vacation to cover the time off, if you come to work with symptoms you are terminated, if you are vaccinated the company pays you for your time off called COVID time and you save all your vacation/PTO. Their lawyers have told them the employees that have done everything possible to reduce COVID deserve a break and not burn PTO those that haven’t they aren’t going to use company money to support their personal decision to not get vaccinated. They are trying to incentivize vaccinations.

Effectively this stifles your career…could reduce your vacation time. Company’s that don’t want to mandate will get creative like this as well. If you think this is politics or “big government” …”reducing rights” I just don’t know how to reason with your further? It’s business and statistics…many of these CEO’s and owners are Republicans. They are doing what reduces their financial risk and keeps their business going.

T
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/15/2021 08:06AM  
Thanks, T, for the time you tender to your posts. Another recent bwca.com poster recently opined that we should tender the same time to everyone's perspective. That strikes me as madness. If a bridge needs to be built, we should listen to civil engineers and structural engineers. There's no need to consult the guy who makes fudge at the candy shop on the corner or the smiling girl who takes our orders at Wendy's about how to build that bridge.

We simply don't have time and aptitude to acquire expertise in everything and thus should prudently defer. Do experts err? Of course. But when I hire a carpenter or electrician, he's likely already made the mistakes I'm about to make without their expertise.
 
outsidethebox
distinguished member (139)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/15/2021 08:18AM  
Thank you "T"...points well-made. The ignorance-willful and otherwise and the lack of character in this regard are stunning.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/15/2021 08:49AM  
outsidethebox: "Thank you "T"...points well-made. The ignorance-willful and otherwise and the lack of character in this regard are stunning."

It's not just stunning ignorance. There's a stunning cost. Seven southern states are using 70% of America's monoclonal antibody treatments at $2,100 a pop versus $20 a poke. If you land a bed in an ICU, that's six figures and many of those patients will never pay that bill, which means the cost is transferred to you and me and everyone else who actually pays their way.
 
09/15/2021 10:57AM  
Mocha: "What advice do these medical people give patients when asked about the vaccine? Many people consider their medical professional the person most knowledgeable after God.

Most of these people were fully vaccinated as children and did their parents question the safety of those vaccines?

Every medication has a list a mile long of possible side effects, to cover their butts most likely.

Nothing in life is fool proof. I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about their rights being taken away, and especially "God given rights" which is totally ridiculous statement if you really think about it.

Perhaps employers should say if you choose to not be vaccinated and end up infecting a vaccinated person, then you lose your job. I'm waiting for the lawsuits to start from vaccinated people suing an unvaccinated person who they got Covid from (a second time). What could their case be? Intentional harm? And if they end up dying? Hmmm

This virus and it's variants will be around a long time, it's hard to believe people care less about that fact."


Very good post-I agree
 
billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/15/2021 06:10PM  
"She thinks this was a conspiracy to get Trump out. To believe that you would have believe 99% of MDs are Liberals and in on the conspiracy…"

Just an aside, I strongly suspect not everyone who wanted trump out was a liberal. Pretty sure a lot of moderates and a number of conservatives were in the same camp. :)
 
09/15/2021 07:15PM  
missmolly: "outsidethebox: "Thank you "T"...points well-made. The ignorance-willful and otherwise and the lack of character in this regard are stunning."


It's not just stunning ignorance. There's a stunning cost. Seven southern states are using 70% of America's monoclonal antibody treatments at $2,100 a pop versus $20 a poke. If you land a bed in an ICU, that's six figures and many of those patients will never pay that bill, which means the cost is transferred to you and me and everyone else who actually pays their way. "


That shouldn’t be a surprise, with the exception of Virginia, most of the south is like a welfare situation compared to the the majority of the country. They eat up more federal funds (all of our tax revenue we pay in) per capita than many other parts of the country. Minnesota for example pays more than they take. We’re used to supporting them by now.

If people in those states aren’t paying their COVID bills…they may collapse their entire health care system and suffer even more. A lot of health institutions were already teetering economically due to the pandemic.

T
 
billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/17/2021 06:01AM  
Just looking around, New Mexico, Alaska, Mississippi, North Dakota, and West Virginia seem to be at the top for federal dollars received per revenue per capita. states most reliant on federal government

As far as COVID vaccination rates and Mississippi, and I suspect other rural southern states, there are significant portions of the population for whom vaccination is very difficult because of distance, transportation, and time. Hard to prioritize a day off from work when it means your family may not eat tonight, generally being ignored by government, and not trusting the establishment for good reason.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/17/2021 07:28AM  
billconner: "Just looking around, New Mexico, Alaska, Mississippi, North Dakota, and West Virginia seem to be at the top for federal dollars received per revenue per capita. states most reliant on federal government


As far as COVID vaccination rates and Mississippi, and I suspect other rural southern states, there are significant portions of the population for whom vaccination is very difficult because of distance, transportation, and time. Hard to prioritize a day off from work when it means your family may not eat tonight, generally being ignored by government, and not trusting the establishment for good reason. "


Bill, if you're right, they lack foresight, for it's impossible to feed your family when you're gasping for oxygen and then dead. As far as being ignored by the government, the government has made these vaccines free and they're in every Walgreens, CVS, WalMart, Rite-Aid, and many, many other places. If money is tight, it'll be far tighter when your relative dies in an ICU and you owe $296,412.45 to the hospital. Of course, in places like Idaho, you might not even make it to the ICU since they're now rationing care at all their hospitals. Rationing will likely happen in other places as the national, daily, COVID death total is about to pass 2,000 again.

I wish all who are unvaccinated would read this.
 
09/17/2021 07:31AM  
Good points bc on other reasons people aren’t vaccinated. Get too myopic on some of the gibberish out there. I can listen to valid fears. The made up stuff or people listening non health officials…We are all just tired in Health Care…tired of arguing…tired of dealing with the consequences of peoples dumb decisions. If it only affected them directly no big deal. But when your decision fills our hospitals, perpetuates variants, possibly kills our immune compromised neighbors/patients I don’t really care about their rights because they don’t seem to care about anyone else’s! THat’s not directed at you bc just venting.

For federal funding I was looking at this 2020 report on what each citizen gets back in federal money compared to what they pay in. Not sure the differences? Virginia and Maryland are artificially elevated due to proximity to DC. When you take DC out they fall towards the bottom.

Payment balances by state
 
GeoFisher
distinguished member(1578)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/17/2021 08:02AM  
missmolly: "outsidethebox: "Thank you "T"...points well-made. The ignorance-willful and otherwise and the lack of character in this regard are stunning."


It's not just stunning ignorance. There's a stunning cost. Seven southern states are using 70% of America's monoclonal antibody treatments at $2,100 a pop versus $20 a poke. If you land a bed in an ICU, that's six figures and many of those patients will never pay that bill, which means the cost is transferred to you and me and everyone else who actually pays their way. "


I find it funny that they will refuse the vaccine poke, but gladly take the monoclonal antibody treatments........From what I understand most of those treatments are experimental, had list even more SCARY side effects.......

FUNNY, when you're dying or about to die, you are almost willing to do anything, but something to KEEP you from dying.........go eff yourself.

People are weird. :) .

I did both...........took the jab.....twice, and also took the antibodies, and I would do it again.

Later,

Geo
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/17/2021 11:17AM  
T, I know you're tired. Just minutes ago, I tried to persuade an unvaccinated friend to get jabbed and failed. Meanwhile, one of his friends, also unvaccinated AND healthy and young, hit a temp of 105 degrees a few days and has gone radio silent. Sigh.

Geo, there are so many Americans who swallow fistfuls of pills. I'm guessing not a single one could recite all those pills' side effects. They trust their doctors and swallow away. I am glad you're vaccinated, Geo.
 
09/17/2021 11:31AM  
It's sad that it's all political. Some of the same people who take a horse dewormer pill to fight Covid will not take a shot. These same people probably got their shots all their lives, but not now.

We reached 2,000 deaths a day now and at this rate will be over 1 million deaths total from Covid by early next year. Almost all could have been avoided. In a way, it is a form of manslaughter when people don't get the shot and they end up spreading it.

I just don't understand.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/17/2021 02:26PM  
This had me thinking about T's most recent post: "Hospital officials say a high number of nurses and other medical staff, exhausted from 1.5 years of stress, have quit and are unwilling to come back. That has made staffing, even more so than equipment in some cases, a barrier to care."

If you followed my link to the embalmer's story, you read that just-graduated embalmers are also leaving their profession because they can't bear it.

In Idaho, traveling nurses are being paid $250 an hour. That's half a million a year. Again, imagine the hospital bills that are being sent to the survivors to pay for those half-mil-a-year nurses.

Alaska and Montana are also rationing care now.
 
billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/17/2021 07:00PM  
Thank you Tim. I have no sympathy for the people who can easily be vaccinated but refuse to for BS reasons. I just don't like to overlook those so poor - and Mississippi leads the nation in poverty rate - that it just isn't feasible to get to a CVS or Walgreens 50 to 100 miles away. A lot easier for white middle class to claim it's easy to get vaccinated then poor black people.

Google maps - 200+ miles Jackson MS to Memphis, no Walgreens, all Rite Aids permanently closed, a handful of CVS. I don't know what it's like where you are, but I'm in a rural area and have probably 10 or more places within 25 miles I can be vaccinated now. Not so many last January. And I have a car and don't have to think about buying gas or taking time off from work. I'm fortunate. Many people are not.
 
andym
distinguished member(5166)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/17/2021 09:43PM  
In my area, the county did mobile shot clinics at farms. There are many farm workers who live without a car. Some have bikes (a local charity helps people donate old bikes to them) but may not have the time to bike into town to get a shot.

Beyond getting the shot, time to recover from side effects can be hard for people working multiple jobs to make ends meet.

It is worth understanding all the issues so that we can find solutions.
 
09/17/2021 10:02PM  
Thanks billconnor and andym very good points.

T
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/18/2021 07:21AM  
I have to disagree with Bill , Andy, and T. I spent a quarter century teaching in Appalachia, a reservation, the near east side of Columbus, and Roxbury, Mass. That's poor white, poor red, and poor black. Finagling a ride wouldn't be problematic in those populations/locations. Alcohol and other drug addictions would be more likely to interfere with vaccination.
 
Mocha
distinguished member(7575)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/18/2021 08:43AM  
I got some excellent news yesterday! During lunch with my sister, the last holdout for getting vaccinated, she lifted her sleeve and what appeared was a bandaid!!!! I was so excited. She said it was her second shot. She, her husband and one of their adult sons have been reluctant to be vaccinated. I asked what changed her mind and she said her doctor. Her doctor was practically in tears explaining to my sister about the virus And what could happen . It must have been gruesome enough to convince my sister. I'm so happy. Both her husband and oldest son. 26, are truckers, so only home a few nights a week.

Both sons are in the Guard and I thought they all had to be vaccinated. I'll have to pull my godmother string with him :).

Anyway, just wanted to share this news. At least, that doctor deserves a huge thank you from me and our other sibs. We don't see each other often but it's better than the alternative.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/18/2021 11:13AM  
That is great news, Mocha.

I failed to convince one of the carpenters who did our home reno. He was okay with being vaccinated, but his wife wasn't because her parents had gone into the Facebook rabbit hole. He contracted COVID two weeks ago, was quite sick, and then his wife called last Monday to say her temp was 105 degrees. He left to be with her and the company hasn't heard a thing since. Sigh.
 
09/18/2021 11:26AM  
Mocha: "I asked what changed her mind and she said her doctor. Her doctor was practically in tears explaining to my sister about the virus And what could happen . It must have been gruesome enough to convince my sister. I'm so happy. At least, that doctor deserves a huge thank you from me and our other sibs."

Any chance of getting that doctor on a speaking tour? I went through similar discussions with a sister whose FB "research" had convinced her that she was introducing "foreign DNA" into her body if she got vaccinated. I was able to convince her that the J&J shot was more conventionally developed than the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer & Moderna, so finally she got the J&J. This was AFTER our 90-year-old Mom had COVID.

TZ
 
billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/19/2021 05:23AM  
missmolly: "I have to disagree with Bill , Andy, and T. I spent a quarter century teaching in Appalachia, a reservation, the near east side of Columbus, and Roxbury, Mass. That's poor white, poor red, and poor black. Finagling a ride wouldn't be problematic in those populations/locations. Alcohol and other drug addictions would be more likely to interfere with vaccination. "

I disagree. Here are two links with statistics that show Mississippi is not at all like Appalachia in regards to substance abuse. They are too poor to buy drugs

opioid by state

drug use by state

Many other studies show same.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/19/2021 07:04AM  
So, what do you suggest, Bill? If it's simply a matter of finding a ride, couldn't drivers be hired to transport those wanting vaccinations to vaccination sites? Should this be accomplished by the feds, the state, non-profits, or private citizens? Or would it be more effective to have rolling vaccination clinics, traveling from town to town?
 
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(14023)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
09/19/2021 08:36AM  
TrailZen: "Mocha: "I asked what changed her mind and she said her doctor. Her doctor was practically in tears explaining to my sister about the virus And what could happen . It must have been gruesome enough to convince my sister. I'm so happy. At least, that doctor deserves a huge thank you from me and our other sibs."


Any chance of getting that doctor on a speaking tour? I went through similar discussions with a sister whose FB "research" had convinced her that she was introducing "foreign DNA" into her body if she got vaccinated. I was able to convince her that the J&J shot was more conventionally developed than the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer & Moderna, so finally she got the J&J. This was AFTER our 90-year-old Mom had COVID.


TZ"


Totally agree, I wish that Doctor could talk to my daughter, son in law, and my best friend. They refuse to get the shot. Every time I bring up the topic they site some story about someone they heard of having a reaction to it. Zero actual proof, just online stories, or Tic-Tock videos. I blame the internet and the stupid false information it produces. I looked it up (on the internet) haha, and there was not much push back when in the 50s-60s everyone had to get shots for polio, mumps, measles, whooping cough, and others. These diseases were eradicated. Now some are back because people don’t trust vaccines.

As far as to the original post, every business public or private has its own rules to follow if you want to work there. It is the health care workers choice to get the shot or not. That choice carries a heavy consequence. They are actually choosing if they want to continue in that field of work. If they choose to not get the shot then they choose not to work there. It’s left up to each person to decide if they want to believe some internet story, or a Doctor. People trust Doctors if they need an operation, or cancer treatment. But when it’s time to get a shot in the arm, they have become a doctor in 15 minutes.

Just wait unvaccinated people and see what’s going to happen if you choose not to get the shot. You will be choosing not to travel, you will be choosing to pay out of your own pocket to pay for your own medical bills associated if you get Covid, you will be choosing a new line of work. Lots of choices for you...This last paragraph was just from the internet so you know it’s true, right?
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/19/2021 09:06AM  
Speaking of termination for hospital employees declining vaccinations, one hospital is making anti-vax employees who are requesting religious exemptions from COVID vaccines because of fetal cell use in their development to also swear that they'll never use any of these drugs too, which also used fetal cells in their development: Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, aspirin, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, ibuprofen, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, albuterol, Preparation H, MMR vaccine, Claritin, Zoloft, Prilosec OTC, and azithromycin.
 
09/19/2021 09:41AM  
The Brainerd paper had a local article of increasing covid cases here. The said doctor at our hospital which has right now 10 ICU beds full and been a very busy summer. The doctor said 100% of Covid cases that needed to go to the hospital were from Non vacinated people.
Its sad also when a person has a heart problem may not get the treatment needed due to too many Covid cases tying up everything.
 
billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/19/2021 06:08PM  
missmolly: "So, what do you suggest, Bill? If it's simply a matter of finding a ride, couldn't drivers be hired to transport those wanting vaccinations to vaccination sites? Should this be accomplished by the feds, the state, non-profits, or private citizens? Or would it be more effective to have rolling vaccination clinics, traveling from town to town? "


Months ago I posted and was behind the rolling clinic using dollar stores - of which there are many more than pharmacies and within 10 or so miles of a huge percentage of people in poverty. That thread was disappeared iirc but here is article that led it:
dollar stores

Instead not much done except to blame the people without the means to be vaccinated.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/19/2021 08:16PM  
I wonder why public health nurses don't leverage their connections and resources to vaccinate in Mississippi.
 
09/19/2021 08:46PM  
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/20/2021 07:34AM  
Your link doesn't seem germane, BN3. County nurses don't work in hospitals. Hospitals are reactive and overwhelmed because Mississippi's healthcare system isn't sufficiently proactive.

However, and to return to Mr. Conner's point, I am uncomfortable relinquishing Mississippi's poor of all responsibility. That infantilizes them and sets us up as the Great White Saviors or the Great Middle Class Saviors and without us, they are helpless. I've only spent six weeks of my life in Mississippi, mostly with cotton farmers and river workers, but I have spent decades with the poor. Some of them are resourceful. I allege "some" because that applies to all demographic groups.
 
09/20/2021 08:27AM  
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/20/2021 08:32AM  
BN3, I don't know what public health nurses in Mississippi are doing. Heck, I'm not even sure if there are public health nurses in Mississippi. If there are, I wish they were vaccinating in vans at dollar stores.
 
09/20/2021 08:48AM  
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7404)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/20/2021 08:55AM  
bobbernumber3: "missmolly: "...Heck, I'm not even sure if there are public health nurses in Mississippi. ..."
I see... "

Then you're a step ahead of me. I did a cursory search of public nursing in Mississippi, but could neither confirm nor refute.
 
09/20/2021 03:40PM  
missmolly: "I wonder why public health nurses don't leverage their connections and resources to vaccinate in Mississippi. "

I mis-read your post as "why don't Mississippi public health nurses vaccinate in Mississippi ". Think you are suggesting a national effort to help Mississippi?
 
billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/21/2021 09:10AM  
This research and article sort of sums up points about society failings to protect the poor. You'll note Mississippi is per capita the lowest per income and highest covid deaths, and not surprisingly
has or has near the lowest vaccination rates. I don't blame them.

1 in 500 dead from covid
 
09/22/2021 10:42AM  
Pinetree: "The Brainerd paper had a local article of increasing covid cases here. The said doctor at our hospital which has right now 10 ICU beds full and been a very busy summer. The doctor said 100% of Covid cases that needed to go to the hospital were from Non vacinated people.
Its sad also when a person has a heart problem may not get the treatment needed due to too many Covid cases tying up everything."


And this is where triage should take place. A cardiac, stroke, or surgery patient should certainly get an ICU bed before the fool who could have gotten vaccinated, but chose not to.

Choices have consequences...
 
09/22/2021 01:28PM  
arctic: "Pinetree: "The Brainerd paper had a local article of increasing covid cases here. The said doctor at our hospital which has right now 10 ICU beds full and been a very busy summer. The doctor said 100% of Covid cases that needed to go to the hospital were from Non vacinated people.
Its sad also when a person has a heart problem may not get the treatment needed due to too many Covid cases tying up everything."



And this is where triage should take place. A cardiac, stroke, or surgery patient should certainly get an ICU bed before the fool who could have gotten vaccinated, but chose not to.


Choices have consequences..."


Agree
 
uqme2
senior member (54)senior membersenior member
 
09/22/2021 03:36PM  
I suddenly find myself wondering how y'all feel about after-market type hips and knees and teeth and stuff.

None of my beeswax. Carry on.
 
09/23/2021 07:25AM  
I totally get the comments about triaging patients based on vaccination status. The frustration is huge with people who refuse to follow medical advice and then they and others suffer the consequences. Although we may vent about in Health care that type of thinking is not allowed in health care. We can’t start deciding who is more important than someone else based on their bad decisions. It is a very slippery slope you ethically cannot go down. But I get the venting…totally get it!

Besides at this point if you read or talk to many of the anti-vaxers there is obviously some type of mental deficiency at work. Either some type of mental health issue that makes them more susceptible to being influenced by outrageous theories that makes them feel “special” to belong to a group that knows something others don’t. Sort of like joining a cult. The other issue is a clear lack of ability to critically think, to believe the unbelievable…to deny the overwhelming evidence because it isn’t 100% for sure (it never is nor ever will be) but to believe something with no evidence…this clearly shows some type of decreased mental capabilities. We cannot stop treating people in health care because of their decreased mental capacity. That is another can of worms.

This obviously doesn’t describe everyone but how else do you describe people who think the vaccine will alter DNA, that the vaccinated shed RNA/DNA, there are trackers in the vaccine, that the recent increase hospitalizations are due to the partially vaccinated being counted as unvaccinated, that the amount of deaths in 2020 didn’t increase from 2019, people that will pop dangerous drugs like horse dewormer and Hydroxycloraquin and think the vaccine is more dangerous…I can’t even keep up with the just plain out right lies that a small percentage have believed without any evidence or they believe fake internet evidence? Does that sound like someone who has normal mental capacity?

We can’t deny them care.

T
 
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4989)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/23/2021 11:28AM  
uqme2: "I suddenly find myself wondering how y'all feel about after-market type hips and knees and teeth and stuff.


None of my beeswax. Carry on."


Bionic knees and hips relieved me of crippling pain and the rocking chair and back to canoe trips. Elective is kind of a derogatory word. Anyone who has had crippling arthritic degeneration wouldn't use that word.
 
09/23/2021 12:06PM  
timatkn: "....We can’t deny them care.


T"


I agree, can't deny them care. Can we move them to the back of the line? Seems justified, to me.
 
09/23/2021 04:25PM  
bobbernumber3: "timatkn: "....We can’t deny them care.



T"



I agree, can't deny them care. Can we move them to the back of the line? Seems justified, to me."


Triage is based on how serious a medical condition is not their decision. Frustrating but I agree with it. You can't have medical providers deciding who's care is more important. This one issue may seem simple but it leads down a path that is unethical. I do understand a lot of this talk is venting or being facetious :)

T
 
09/23/2021 05:53PM  
timatkn: "bobbernumber3: "timatkn: "....We can’t deny them care.

T"


I agree, can't deny them care. Can we move them to the back of the line? Seems justified, to me."


Triage is based on how serious a medical condition is not their decision. Frustrating but I agree with it. You can't have medical providers deciding who's care is more important. This one issue may seem simple but it leads down a path that is unethical. I do understand a lot of this talk is venting or being facetious :)

T"



Triage: The process of sorting people based on their need for immediate medical treatment as compared to their chance of benefiting from such care. Triage is done in emergency rooms, disasters, and wars, when limited medical resources must be allocated to maximize the number of survivors.

Somebody is deciding who gets treatment and who waits. Non-vaxers likely have a lower chance of survival. Not an ethical decision, IMO.
 
09/23/2021 06:44PM  
While I agree with the sentiment, I disagree with the practice to some extent.

What’s next fat people go to the back of line for heart attacks and strokes, people who drink can’t get diabetes medication, people who smoke get refused care or go tot the back of the line for emphysema, COPD, lung cancer…I’m being a little facetious I know…but there is a slippery slope.

I see what you are saying all things being equal if an anti-vaxer needs a vent or vaccinated person needs a vent but there is only one vent left the vaccinated person should get it. That could possibly factor in but age, other health issues would factor in as well and most likely vaccination status would not be a factor considered. So by your definition it is possible to take into account vaccination status but in actual practice it would be very unlikely to be a deciding factor.

The other thing is some people have allergies that they can’t get the vaccination. As health care workers they need to make decisions based on medical need quickly not pausing to wonder the patients reason for not being vaccinated or if they have reduced mental capacity/mentally deficiencies.


T
 
billconner
distinguished member(8077)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/23/2021 06:50PM  
Even when they follow an approved protocol it isn't necessarily fair. Triage Standards

I was thinking about the overweight 85 yr old with heart failure but vaccinated versus the 15 yr old with covid, who gets the ICU bed, and then put race into that. Very difficult.
 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
COVID-19 Information and Discussion Sponsor:
Cliff Wold's Outfitting Co.