Ranger

Intern/volunteer

I have two reactions when I read these posts:

1) Oh, to be in a position to drop everything and do all this for nothing but the reward of a hard day’s work done for a noble cause...

And...

2) What an absolute disgrace that this country has so devalued our wild spaces that we would need to rely on volunteers who can drop their entire lives for three months to do this kind of work.

What Gopher said.

thegildedgopher: "I have two reactions when I read these posts:

1) Oh, to be in a position to drop everything and do all this for nothing but the reward of a hard day’s work done for a noble cause...

And...

2) What an absolute disgrace that this country has so devalued our wild spaces that we would need to rely on volunteers who can drop their entire lives for three months to do this kind of work."

Agree 100%!

thegildedgopher: "I have two reactions when I read these posts:

1) Oh, to be in a position to drop everything and do all this for nothing but the reward of a hard day’s work done for a noble cause...

And...

2) What an absolute disgrace that this country has so devalued our wild spaces that we would need to rely on volunteers who can drop their entire lives for three months to do this kind of work."

There is another way to look at this. Instead of it devaluing the wild spaces, it is a way to train tomorrows stewards. I would think these positions are geared more for younger folks trying to get into the field as a career. Experience, resume, contacts etc. It is a great opportunity for these folks. It is a path I took almost 50 years ago and I was very thankful for the opportunity. Just my thoughts.

I love to see these opportunities for people.

I have been involved in a handful of organizations that rely on volunteers to accomplish certain goals and objectives. A portion of my involvement was to promote volunteerism and getting people to identify AND use their time and talents they were born with or are willing to learn.

If I understand the frustration, it is a lack of funds to pay more of a beefed-up, full-time staff to meet the needs of the area? I completely get it. But until that happens, and even when it does:

Promote, encourage and recruit individuals for a task such as this!

JW

In my opinion this is ESSENTIAL work. I do not support relying on unpaid, inexperienced volunteers to do essential work, or the notion that this is a good "foot in the door" opportunity for young people. If the volunteer program had a direct avenue to future gainful employment, I might be convinced to reconsider my stance. But if the USFS had the funds to create those kind of jobs, they probably wouldn't be asking kids to do it for free?

Dustytrail -- A lot has changed in 50 years. I don't believe today's young people have the same mindset of trading their labor for unidentified potential future opportunities.

A problem with using volunteers as a way to provide career-building opportunities is that it limits the pool of people to those who can afford to take a summer off from making money. My group (at a different federal agency) had an expanded intern program this past summer and we got a lot of great people at a very low cost compared to hiring the more usual sorts of temporary employees. While the pay isn't great, at least they are getting paid something. And it was fantastic working with them. I managed to keep the intern I'm working with on, part-time, during the academic year and really appreciate having them as a colleague. It looks like the FS does use the same hiring process for interns but I don't know if they use it in the BW for this sort of work. One of the opportunities is listed as volunteer/intern but I couldn't see that this was the sort of paid internship I'm talking about.

When I took my wilderness medicine I ran into people taking the course that had been volunteers for things like this within the forest service. The sense I got was it was almost a requirement if you wanted to get hired into the forest service. Guy was clearly working/scratching/scrimping hard to make ends meet until he could get into a paid job. Super nice clearly loved the outdoors guy so I’m sure he was goi g to make it.

Can’t say I love the idea of the unpaid volunteer. Thing is though I had to pay to do clinical hours for free in grad school. Then had to do an underpaid year as a resident. Then could take my certification exams. I suppose in a way it’s just weeding out the non hackers that don’t really want it or don’t know what real work is.

My son is getting to an age and this would be interesting for him. I’m trying to talk him into being a Northern Tier guide when he is 18 though.

Ryan

I agree that it is unfortunate that the USFS relies on un-paid volunteers for an essential job. I would guess that’s the only way they have been able to get those positions filled due to budgeting.

Some of the most rewarding jobs in our lives pay no money.
Service in what you believe in is good for your soul.

Tom

I’m surprised the USFS would allow any unpaid labor on the forest. What about injuries and the sort?

Mocha: "I’m surprised the USFS would allow any unpaid labor on the forest. What about injuries and the sort?"

They are paid a daily stipend, when I volunteered it was about 25.00 per day.

From the link
"Free housing in our dorm style apartment units is available to volunteers. Camping is also available at one of our developed campgrounds.

Volunteers will receive a daily stipend for each day worked. Daily amount to be determined."

My agency does have volunteers working on field projects with the potential for injuries. We have a formal volunteer agreement that treats them as employees for tort claims and injury compensation. The only stipend we would provide is per diem (meals and lodging), if they are traveling.

It's a vicious circle. Can't get the job without experience. Can't get experience if you can't afford to eat. Young people usually don't have much in the bank to fall back on and often need to borrow money so they can volunteer for that unpaid experience. Travel there, food, housing. Every full time volunteer position should have a stipend.

I hope that this “opportunity” is available when I retire in 2030. As long as I am able to issue citations to the groups trashing campsites and flouting rules sign me up!

I'd love to do the ranger option. I hope the opportunity is still there when my wife and I are retired.

I wonder if they would consider a retired couple. Michael Furtman and his wife did this, chronicled in his book "A Season in the Wilderness," though I'm not sure how old they were. If a couple is physically able, I would think it would be fine. That's logical, however, and the government doesn't always work on logic.

Mike