Perhaps I am bored and have let my mind wander too much, but…here goes.

I have both experienced (and read the reports of other trippers about) clogged portages, as well as hearing tales of poor portage etiquette (stopping for lunch with gear strewn about both sides, etc).

Most everyone (here, at least) knows the rules - and they are spelled out clearly in the bwca videos we all get to watch to get our permits.

That said, here’s a hypothetical situation that I’ve been mulling over, and am curious how folks would (or do) handle it…

You arrive at portage. Gear at the portage, no people; direction of their travel is unclear. We wait, right? Sure do Skip!

Well, the variable I want to get some input on is length. Distance and Time, both.

If you know this portage is a one or even two mile jaunt, you could be waiting a very, very long time. I think there are probably at least 15-20 of such length (say 300+ rods) in the BWCA, and a slow group double-carrying a 600-700+ rod portage could legitimately take two hours to clear it.

Is there a length threshold that makes you consider unloading without waiting?

Similarly, but distance could be any distance: You do wait. And wait. They should have reappeared by now. When do you pull the plug and unload?

And does it make any difference - for both of these scenarios - if you are a bigger crew double-portaging, versus two people/one canoe out day-tripping, moving fast and single carrying?

Just curious how others see this.

I would never wait in that scenario. Store your gear out of the way and go. If a crew is actively loading or unloading you would wait unless invited to land.

There is no one party per portage rule. Use common courtesy and everyone will be better off.

I would only wait if it were a short portage and there was no more room to park canoes and gear. If you waited at a portage like the lake one to lake two portages people would still be out there waiting to portage. If someone is loading or unloading this would force you to wait until they clear in a lot of cases.

You don't have to wait for someone to finish at any length portage. Just give people space and a head start. I don't know where this idea of waiting until a group is completely done ,before you start your portage comes from. It's not correct. Plus you don't know if someone is coming from the other end. The Tumblehome podcast talked about this and they had the same question.

I was taught to move all gear and canoe up and away from the landing area and not blocking the portage itself. Therefor it stands more than one party will be portaging at any given time. As said, I would not hesitate unless the landing spots are taken by others. I have been disappointed to encounter gear at landing spots with no one around and have resisted the temptation to move said gear. I wet foot so can usually find a way ashore.
Thanks for the post, these "ethical" questions are great winter thought projects and may give some new commers some helpful info.

What everybody else said. Portages are enough of a bottleneck as it is.

No people? I'm landing and portaging. Of course, I am stashing my stuff well away from others to mitigate gear confusion. I am also preparing myself to help the other crew if they are portaging in the opposite direction from me.

just to share the opposite perspective. . .

Our three canoes pulled into a landing at a portage and were at the landing unloading with one of our canoes waiting their turn to land.

Another party paddled right in front of our other canoe, landed, and hauled their gear out and started portaging right through our guys and gear. I mentioned something to the leader of the new group about waiting his turn and he snapped there is no rule that only one group can "land" at at time, and we were too slow.

ockycamper: "just to share the opposite perspective. . .


Our three canoes pulled into a landing at a portage and were at the landing unloading with one of our canoes waiting their turn to land.


Another party paddled right in front of our other canoe, landed, and hauled their gear out and started portaging right through our guys and gear. I mentioned something to the leader of the new group about waiting his turn and he snapped there is no rule that only one group can "land" at at time, and we were too slow.


"

The OP asked about gear present and no other people. Solution: land and go. Your scenario says people are present and actively moving boats and gear to and through the portage. Solution: float and wait. (Present and having lunch? Land and give some side eye and go.)

Even in your example, I'd say that once all of the members of the other party have begun their trip across the portage - even if some of their gear has been left behind for a second trip - land and begin unloading, keeping your things together and separate from theirs. I'm not going to suggest that you start carrying your equipment across before they get all of theirs over, but figure out if it is possible to do it in an orderly fashion without the two groups interfering with each other. Who knows? Maybe they're having lunch on the other side...

Over 9/4 on a portage? Yeah, that might happen. Use your judgement and common sense. Try to follow the rules. Don't be in a hurry or crowd anyone. Keep it civil.

Unload and go. Be efficient in carrying and be polite when you encounter someone coming from the opposite direction, stepping off the trail if necessary.

Several points:

1. Not that many groups are going to line up to portage a 300+ rods or more. I don't think I have ever waited for space at a portage of that length.

2. It's the medium length portages (60-180 rods) that get tricky. Canoes are sitting at the end of the portage with no one around and no idea how long the owners have been gone or when they might return.
We have encountered this situation only a handful of times:
a. There was a party of at least 9 parked on the SAK side of the SAK to Eddy portage. They had their stoves out cooking lunch! We eventually portaged through while several of their group were out hiking the falls.
b. Encountered a group of nine at a 120 rod portage. They were starting their second trip. The problem - They informed us that their was a group of 6 headed in our direction (we were 4). The group of 6 brought 3 canoes over (ours made 5) effectively blocking the portage end to us. We had to wait for them to complete their portage before coming ashore to avoid having 5 canoes on shore at once. We were traveling considerably faster than the group of 9, but they effectively blocked our travel for several more portages waiting for them to complete their portage in order to avoid more than 4 canoes in one place. They eventually "pulled over" on a lake and let us pass.
c. Two large groups of travelers who knew each other initially traveled apart, but eventually combined into a much larger than allowed single group. We had to keep up a pretty healthy pace to stay ahead of their advance guard throughout the morning, until they chose to stop (together) for lunch. They had to have been strung out over a mile of paddling canoes, portaging canoes, paddling canoes. We were on a route with a lot of short paddles and medium portages. Not good for us to fall behind of or find ourselves in the midst of that group.
3. This scenario is one of the reasons that we always try to clear the canoes from the portage end on the first trip inland. Especially on those long portages when we will be leapfrogging. It is much harder to congregate more than 4 canoes on at a portage rest. I know that some consider it a matter of pride that they finish those 300-500 rod portages without a break, but that also means that those canoes are sitting at the portage ends for a very long time. (It also means the food bags/barrels are sitting unattended for that long too.). Breaking those portages into smaller segments means the canoes (and food bags) are not left unattended at any end for a huge chunk of time. And yes, on these longer portages, we will bing the packs to the portage end first and bring the canoes in last. It is the least amount of time with canoes at the portage end.

I never wait.

Ever !

Just gear? I’m coming ashore and moving through quickly in hopes of putting that group in my rear view mirror!

People at the portage, I’ll wait until they move on to come ashore.

Hammertime: "I would never wait in that scenario. Store your gear out of the way and go. If a crew is actively loading or unloading you would wait unless invited to land.


There is no one party per portage rule. Use common courtesy and everyone will be better off."

Same! Truthfully I can remember one time when the person left their canoe broadside at the landing blocking the portage. I got around it and stashed my pack off to the side and went with my canoe. I met the solo guy on the portage and politely asked him to keep stuff off to the side. I think he was a newbie who didn’t know any better.

eagle98mn: "Just gear? I’m coming ashore and moving through quickly in hopes of putting that group in my rear view mirror!


People at the portage, I’ll wait until they move on to come ashore."

+1 all while being respectful. I’ve even picked up a bag of potatoes and a Coleman stove for another group that was struggling and shed those items on the portage.

This is what winter does to all of us on this forum: we think up bad or worst-case scenarios and then mull it over to the point of, "Oh no!! What do we do?"

I believe I've run across at least a degree of all of these issues that get discussed and my general solution is guided by commn sense/common courtesy and what's best for the moment.

When you encounter a situation--even if it's the making of others--use your head, be flexible, solve the problem and then put it in your rearview mirror. It's part of the adventure!

We ran in to people on portage on our last trip. The guys set down our gear, and picked up the gear from the group in front of us and got them through, then went back for ours. Everyone gets through faster if it is a group effort.

If there are no people visible, I will always start portaging. You have absolutely no way to know why their gear is there, how long it will be there, or whether even more people are going to show up while you are waiting that will create a bigger traffic jam.

If people are coming toward me with gear and actively loading I will wait. If it seems like they are going to take an especially long time, I will ask if they mind me going through. We mostly single portage and can come and go in no time at all.

If someone is ahead of me at a portage, I will wait for them to get started and disappear. But then I will get started. I am always willing to walk along a shore and out of their way on the other side if I happen to catch up or they need to take another trip.

Fortunately, most places I travel, I rarely meet other people on a portage. However, in busy places like the portages between Birch and Knife you would be sitting all day if you waited for the portage to be empty.

For those inclined to carry other people's gear across - do be sure to ask them first. It's not a good idea to assume they need help, and not alright to carry it across because you think they are going too slow. Offer to help, or if no one is there just portage around them.

Last year I was portaging into Knife carrying my second load across, and ran into a nice couple of well-intended first timers carrying my packs back to where I started. They thought my gear belonged to another group going their way and wanted to help, even though my packs were piled all together and well apart from the other groups.

Jaywalker: "For those inclined to carry other people's gear across - do be sure to ask them first..."

Agree. I'm not one to offer to carry others' stuff (sorry, not sorry), nor do I appreciate anyone else handling our stuff. We've had groups get things all jumbled in the past. "Is this your green pack?..."

schweady: "

Jaywalker: "For those inclined to carry other people's gear across - do be sure to ask them first..."

Agree. I'm not one to offer to carry others' stuff (sorry, not sorry), nor do I appreciate anyone else handling our stuff. We've had groups get things all jumbled in the past. "Is this your green pack?..."
"

This issue convinced me to clearly mark my packs with my name. Years ago my dad found the stencil I used in boot camp in 1967 to mark my navy clothing, which somehow was saved. And when I did this most people used Duluth packs so it was easy to confuse your gear with that of other groups.

schweady: "

Jaywalker: "For those inclined to carry other people's gear across - do be sure to ask them first..."

Agree. I'm not one to offer to carry others' stuff (sorry, not sorry), nor do I appreciate anyone else handling our stuff. We've had groups get things all jumbled in the past. "Is this your green pack?..."
"

I don't offer as a routine at all - only on special circumstances like groups trying to corral young kids. This summer I passed a girl scout troop. I was going back across empty as the one dad lifted the 3rd of his group's 4 royalex canoes. I offered to take #4, twice, but he refused so back empty I went, but offered him some kind words for what he was doing. My general rule though, is "you brought it you carry it".

deerfoot: "

schweady: "

Jaywalker: "For those inclined to carry other people's gear across - do be sure to ask them first..."

Agree. I'm not one to offer to carry others' stuff (sorry, not sorry), nor do I appreciate anyone else handling our stuff. We've had groups get things all jumbled in the past. "Is this your green pack?..."
"

This issue convinced me to clearly mark my packs with my name. Years ago my dad found the stencil I used in boot camp in 1967 to mark my navy clothing, which somehow was saved. And when I did this most people used Duluth packs so it was easy to confuse your gear with that of other groups. "

I put stickers of the companies and groups that help me get outside on my blue barrel for the same reason. Everyone else's looks identical.

schweady: "

Jaywalker: "For those inclined to carry other people's gear across - do be sure to ask them first..."

Agree. I'm not one to offer to carry others' stuff (sorry, not sorry), nor do I appreciate anyone else handling our stuff. We've had groups get things all jumbled in the past. "Is this your green pack?..."
"

+10. I will offer help only if see people in distress. If there's sufficient place at the landing I will load/unload without regard to other parties being present. Everyone moves at different speed and make different number of carries, so why wait for someone to leave if you might catch up with this very person later on the portage (and may be more than once)?

We asked if they needed help as they appeared to be struggling. They asked for our help so we did so. As a group of 6-8 men from a church men's group, we make it a point to always ask at portages if another group needs help as a ministry to that group. If they say no, we wait for them to get through then go ourselves. We are not in a hurry.

Jaywalker: "For those inclined to carry other people's gear across - do be sure to ask them first. It's not a good idea to assume they need help, and not alright to carry it across because you think they are going too slow. Offer to help, or if no one is there just portage around them.


Last year I was portaging into Knife carrying my second load across, and ran into a nice couple of well-intended first timers carrying my packs back to where I started. They thought my gear belonged to another group going their way and wanted to help, even though my packs were piled all together and well apart from the other groups. "

OMG--YES to this!

One time at the NewFound to Splash portage we were headed out when we took our first load across the portage where we encountered a large group of teens just coming in at their first portage and travelling the opposite way. Their adult leader scolded a few that if their gear was going to get across the portage, they needed to stop standing around (which they were doing) and if they saw a pack or something to grab it and get to work. You can guess what happened. When I returned with a second load and wanted to now load up the canoes, I noticed a pack that I had portaged on the first trip was now missing. I quickly figured it out and raced back to the other end of the portage to see my pack in a canoe now going away from shore. Thankfully they were less than a hundred yards out, heard me shout and returned with my pack.

Travellers to the BWCA often find enjoyment from a sense of independent accomplishment--that they faced challenges and self-sufficiently worked through them on their own. Your well-intentioned assistance may compromise that hoped-for sense of self sufficiency so I'd always ask before jumping in to help.

Come to think of it, there was one recent time that we landed while another party was present. (No 9/4 violation danger...) It was a group trying to get their various combinations of stuff squeezed into their canoes, headed in the opposite direction. As it was a yard sale all over the landing area, we waited for a bit. Once we heard, "Who has the watermelon?!" we knew it was time to land, gather our stuff, and move along. Don't mean to boast, but the slack jaws of those watching our efficient work has created a lasting and satisfying memory...

We single-walk portages, so seeing gear at a landing doesn't slow us down. If a big crew is setting up a yard sale at the landing and blocking the portage, we'll wait patiently until the sale is over or we're invited to play through.

TZ

TrailZen: "We single-walk portages, so seeing gear at a landing doesn't slow us down. If a big crew is setting up a yard sale at the landing and blocking the portage, we'll wait patiently until the sale is over or we're invited to play through.


TZ"

Same for our crew. We single portage so if there is room to land we land and get moving if only gear at the landing. If there are other trippers at the landing with their gear we talk it through and have never had an issue.

Guess I left out some detail in my comment about helping carry another groups items left on a portage. In this one situation, we were waiting in a holding pattern as another group unloaded at the portage traveling in the same direction as we were. I was able to witness the unload and saw a gentleman with young boys load up and head down the portage. The gentleman was the one with a heavy pack and a sack of potatoes in one hand, stove in the other. When they cleared the landing, we(my wife and I) approached and unloaded efficiently to single trip and headed down the portage. When I saw the items I knew who they belong to. I do not make it a habit or feel the need to assist but this guy was very appreciative in this case. Anyway, I feel like we all can agree that common sense prevails when "How long is too long?"

PF

To the original question, I'm landing and begining my trek across. No wait required.

In my opinion, portage etiquette can be boiled to a single statement - "Just make sure to stay out of other peoples way."

Don't block the portage in any way, shape or form and beyond that, makes no difference to me how slow you are or if you have lunch, snacks, pump water, have a smoke break, sip some whiskey...it's all good.

I don't wait, there's always been plenty of room. I will respect the space that others have already occupied & keep my gear away from theirs. On the portage trail I will step aside and let them come through no problem.

Speckled: "To the original question, I'm landing and begining my trek across. No wait required.


In my opinion, portage etiquette can be boiled to a single statement - "Just make sure to stay out of other peoples way."


Don't block the portage in any way, shape or form and beyond that, makes no difference to me how slow you are or if you have lunch, snacks, pump water, have a smoke break, sip some whiskey...it's all good.






"

Amen

Hammertime: "

Speckled: "To the original question, I'm landing and begining my trek across. No wait required.

In my opinion, portage etiquette can be boiled to a single statement - "Just make sure to stay out of other peoples way."

Don't block the portage in any way, shape or form and beyond that, makes no difference to me how slow you are or if you have lunch, snacks, pump water, have a smoke break, sip some whiskey...it's all good.

"

Amen"

Agreed.

For me, nothing touches the ground. I step out in the water, put on my yoke (if solo), put on my pack, put on partners pack (if not solo) shoulder the canoe and go. If there is an open place to land and walk, I take it. If there is no place to land, I wait. I do not get in anyone's way and I give people space where appropriate.

I generally only wait to land if there's active loading and unloading. If there's a clog of gear at the landing, there's sometimes room to leave our stuff down the trail a bit and well off the side so it's clearly separate from the others and out of the way. I usually double portage and, unless I'm really wiped, offer to help others with their hand gear or a maybe a pack if heading in the right direction empty handed. I've appreciated and accepted offers for the same type of help myself. No expectation that anyone should offer or not or that I need to.

If we see people loading or unloading, we wait. If we don’t see people, we land and keep our gear to the side and out of the way. I’ve never thought we were doing anything impolite by entering a portage when we knew someone else was somewhere on the same portage. That said, whether we see people or not, we go out of our way to keep our gear tight and to portage as quickly as our gear and fitness allows.

schweady: "Come to think of it, there was one recent time that we landed while another party was present. (No 9/4 violation danger...) It was a group trying to get their various combinations of stuff squeezed into their canoes, headed in the opposite direction. As it was a yard sale all over the landing area, we waited for a bit. Once we heard, "Who has the watermelon?!" we knew it was time to land, gather our stuff, and move along. Don't mean to boast, but the slack jaws of those watching our efficient work has created a lasting and satisfying memory...
"

I can remember two occasions where other groups have said either "you go ahead, you know what you're doing" or "you've done this a time or two, haven't you?" Nice compliments that obviously have stuck with me.

To add a wrinkle into this thread: If a group clearly has no clue at all as to what they are doing, and will obviously be at the portage long after we would finish, we will come ashore and go across...provided the landing can handle the canoes. The groups who have to reconfigure their canoe loads at the end of each portage are fine, I just don't want to wait for them. Like others, we stash our gear far from away, sometimes even in the woods, to prevent gear confusion. We have streamlined our system over decades to avoid such things.

If a group is actively loading, we will wait. We often encounter a group with three or four canoes, and two are loading, but the gear from the other two canoes hasn't made it across the portage yet. In that case, we will come ashore between their loadings and start our portage.

More than once I have gently and appropriately educated other trippers that the canoe has priority on a portage...in other words, if you're carrying a pack one direction, and come across a canoe being portaged in the other direction, the pack needs to step aside to allow the canoe to pass. Not a big deal usually, but can be an issue on very hilly terrain or on portages with "steps," natural or otherwise.

Mike

Just put on your shoulder pads and go. Haha! You have to use your head in situations as this. Now this is where you usually find a group on a day trip eating lunch at one end. I totally advocate putting gear out of way. But if your group is loading and need the area it is rude for someone to plow through your group possibly causing someone to slip.patience grasshopper. Communicate!