Sounds like the Biden administration has canceled two mineral leases owned by Twin Metals, another massive blow to the project near Ely.

Please be civil if you are going to respond to this thread.

I promise to be civil on all three threads.

:) there was a bit of lag when I posted.
Hoping someone can delete the other two.

I will be civil also.

I was already celebrating my 3 permits secured this morning, and now this.
Day drinking!
Biden administration cancels Twin Metals' leases to mine near BWCA

Thank you Deb Haaland!

Smiley face!

Certainly welcome news, but without legislation, the next corrupt despot can do the same thing. I'll have a drink of wine today, but the good stuff will stay in the cabinet for now.

thegildedgopher: "Thank you Deb Haaland!"

Amen!!

sad

This commentary, by Aaron Brown (an Iron Range resident) really struck a cord.
The Troubled Border Between Consumption and Conservation

Minnesotian: "
This commentary, by Aaron Brown (an Iron Range resident) really struck a cord.
The Troubled Border Between Consumption and Conservation "

Thank you for sharing. This is perhaps the most well-written piece on this issue I've read to date. Despite having a clear position, it's not just a flaming pile of rhetoric as we are so frequently fed from the far ends of the spectrum.

Minnesotian: "
This commentary, by Aaron Brown (an Iron Range resident) really struck a cord.
The Troubled Border Between Consumption and Conservation "

Wow. Very intelligent perspective. I had never heard of the Minnesota Reformer. Thanks for sharing.

"If you follow this story you might view this as a classic 'jobs vs. the environment' debate, a rusty old cliche from the 1970s thinking about how this stuff works. But it’s actually an even older cliche: the notion that progress can only happen through uninhibited consumption of non-renewable resources."

Minnesotian: "
This commentary, by Aaron Brown (an Iron Range resident) really struck a cord.
The Troubled Border Between Consumption and Conservation "

Thanks for sharing!

TZ

Stumpy: "sad"

Seconded.

Minnesotian: "
This commentary, by Aaron Brown (an Iron Range resident) really struck a cord.
The Troubled Border Between Consumption and Conservation "

Thanks for sharing, great article. This seems to echo what the most informed people are saying.

"Only when the last tree has been cut down, the last fish been caught, and the last stream poisoned, will we realize we cannot eat money"

Three things about the proposed mines:

They will take a tremendous amount of public money to open, close and maintain long after the mining companies have gone away, therefore the taxpaying public should have a lot of input.

The United States has only a few copper smelters and no nickel smelters. So, most of the value added for the raw ore will happen elsewhere. We may see the copper and nickel again one day in the form of batteries or wiring, but those things will most certainly will be produced elsewhere. The value added is where all the real money is made.

There is a lot of valuable ore in the ground on the iron range. I am sure that it will be extracted at some point in the future. We just need to make sure it is done right.

Great article. I appreciated reading it, and was happy to see the Biden administraion act. It will most likely ping pong back and forth based on who gets elected on the national level in the future.

Minnesotian: "
This commentary, by Aaron Brown (an Iron Range resident) really struck a cord.
The Troubled Border Between Consumption and Conservation "

Just to correct the statement that the majority of copper in the world has already been mined.

USGS(United States Geological Service): To date, roughly 700 million metric tons of copper have been produced around the world. This would fit into a cube measuring about 430 meters aside.

Identified deposits to date:
Contain an estimated 2.1 billion metric tons of additional copper, which brings the total amount of discovered copper to 2.8 billion metric tons. This would fit into a cube measuring 680 meters aside. It is also estimated that undiscovered resources contain about 3.5 billion metric tons of copper, which would mean that there are roughly 6.3 billion metric tons of copper on Earth. This would fit into a cube measuring about 890 meters aside.

@Mocha,

Staying civil but..

Nope.

I’m not certain if you are guilting me into feeling sorry for outfitters. It really sounds that way.

Anyone working with the Governemnt faces similar obsticales. Any alphabet agency is awful to work with. I will pick out the DOT. It is among the most difficult agency the Government oversees to work with. Simply driving a commercial vehicle within DOT regulations on public roads is a legal and regulated challenge that rivals any outfitters’ responsibility.

Many outfitters go into the business of outfitting to make money. Not because the love the wilderness. I love canoeing so if I start building and selling canoes, it’s not because I want more people to experience canoeing. I want to make money.

And I want to say this. I live in Northern MN. Some of my income is derived from the mining industry. However, I would rather not work than work for Twin Metals. I feel that strongly. If my employer ever sent me to Twin Metals or Polymet I would decline. I really would. There are a lot of Northern Minnesotans that do not support this contrary to the vocal minority and some politicians.

Not everyone who makes money in mining or lives up here will do anything for money or support a propesterous idea of a sulfide mine in a watershed. Mining in the desert is one thing. Sulfide mining in a freshwater environment is unfathomable

Tom

I do agree with your statement "Mining in the desert is one thing. Sulfide mining in a freshwater environment is unfathomable"

How do we get the nickel to the desert?

I would worry more about the smelting of the nickel than the mining of the nickel. It is only a matter of time before a nickel refinery is built in this country. Nickel demand is expected to increase 1400% over the next 8 years.

The Eagle Nickel Mine in the U.P. is about mined out. I remember the activist saying Eagle mine would kill all the fish in the Great Lakes. It is only 8 miles from Lake Superior. How did the Eagle Mine do it without killing the Great Lakes?

Looks like green energy and EV cars could cause more damage than what they replace.

Will mining nickel, cobalt, lithium, etc. be the green energy jobs our leaders keep promising.

Tesla signed a deal with Minnesota Talon Nickel Mine. Tesla sees the Talon mine as low impact environmentally .

As of now buying an EV or hybrid is a vote for nickel mining. The $80,000.00 hybrid f150 is already sold out in pre sale.

tumblehome: "@Mocha,
Staying civil but.
I’m not certain if you are guilting me into feeling sorry for outfitters. It really sounds that way.
Tom"

Tom, NOT trying to guilt you or anyone into feeling sorry for outfitters, just sharing a perspective after 25 years of doing it.

Also, getting tired of people assuming outfitters have special privileges when it comes to the bwca…permits being one area.

BTW… my post had nothing to do with mining but since you posted here I just replied here.

Have a great day!

Mocha: "

tumblehome: "@Mocha,
Staying civil but.
I’m not certain if you are guilting me into feeling sorry for outfitters. It really sounds that way.
Tom"

Tom, NOT trying to guilt you or anyone into feeling sorry for outfitters, just sharing a perspective after 25 years of doing it.


Also, getting tired of people assuming outfitters have special privileges when it comes to the bwca…permits being one area.


BTW… my post had nothing to do with mining but since you posted here I just replied here.


Have a great day!"

I agree with you Mocha, I never went thru an outfitter, but they do a great service for many people and are an important part of the future of the BWCA.

I have friends who live in Chile and have been in one of the largest copper mines in Chile. Eye-opening and an absolute environmental mess.
Mining is essential, but giving a Chilean company the keys to a US mine - not to mention the profits from our natural resources - seems very off to me.

USA ownership should be a minimum requirement.

sns: "I have friends who live in Chile and have been in one of the largest copper mines in Chile. Eye-opening and an absolute environmental mess.
Mining is essential, but giving a Chilean company the keys to a US mine - not to mention the profits from our natural resources - seems very off to me.


USA ownership should be a minimum requirement."

And…. The copper is sold on the open market. Not reserved for USA consumption. Just like 35% +/-of iron ore in northern MN goes to foreign countries.
The proposed mine in Tamarak,MN is not in a fragile watershed draining into the BWCA, and Tesla has signed a purchase agreement to buy the mined metals. This is all a huge difference than the Twin Metals mine.

Tom

tumblehome: "

sns: "I have friends who live in Chile and have been in one of the largest copper mines in Chile. Eye-opening and an absolute environmental mess.
Mining is essential, but giving a Chilean company the keys to a US mine - not to mention the profits from our natural resources - seems very off to me.



USA ownership should be a minimum requirement."

And…. The copper is sold on the open market. Not reserved for USA consumption. Just like 35% +/-of iron ore in northern MN goes to foreign countries.
The proposed mine in Tamarak,MN is not in a fragile watershed draining into the BWCA, and Tesla has signed a purchase agreement to buy the mined metals. This is all a huge difference than the Twin Metals mine.


Tom"

Isn’t it in the watersheds of the St Croix and Mississippi rivers though?

Yes. The Talon mine would be 8 miles from Big Sandy Lake. Big Sandy flows into the Mississippi through a dam on the west side. The whole area is wetlands.

What makes one watershed fragile and others not? Minneapolis and St. Paul get their drinking water from the Mississippi.

Today's issue of the StarTribune had an article on the latest Twin Metals lease decision. I'd post a link, but it's behind a paywall; that's a no-no here, as I understand. I mention it because it was a Page 1A top-of-the-fold headline.

"After Twin Metals mining lease cancellation, Ely residents weigh future"

"Residents in the divided town seek an economic path forward with a mix of hope and defiance."

"The old extractive economy and the new tourism economy at odds for over 50 years meet on E. Sheridan Street in Ely, Minn."

Maiingan: "Yes. The Talon mine would be 8 miles from Big Sandy Lake. Big Sandy flows into the Mississippi through a dam on the west side. The whole area is wetlands.


What makes one watershed fragile and others not? Minneapolis and St. Paul get their drinking water from the Mississippi. "

Exactly. Just because the areas downstream are highly developed doesn't mean there won't be consequences.

If you want a status symbol, buy a Tesla. If you want an eco-friendly means of transportation, ride a bicycle (and not a carbon frame for the love of zeus).

schweady: "Today's issue of the StarTribune had an article on the latest Twin Metals lease decision. I'd post a link, but it's behind a paywall; that's a no-no here, as I understand. I mention it because it was a Page 1A top-of-the-fold headline.


"After Twin Metals mining lease cancellation, Ely residents weigh future"


"Residents in the divided town seek an economic path forward with a mix of hope and defiance."


"The old extractive economy and the new tourism economy at odds for over 50 years meet on E. Sheridan Street in Ely, Minn."
"

Here is the article without the paywall.

Hey All. My son, Grant, is a senior in high school and is working on his final argumentative research paper for Comp. He has decided his topic is "something around mining in the BWCA area". He is looking for people to interview as part of his research, from all perspectives. After reading all your posts, I wondered if anyone might be interested in letting him do a short interview with you. He's a great and easy-going kid, I don't think it would take that long.

If you're up for it, let me know, and I'll connect you - please email me at stimm@iastate.edu
Scott

IronRangeMike: "

Stumpy: "sad"

Seconded. "

Stumpy or IRM... sad in what way? Interested in your perspective in 20 seconds or less.

bobbernumber3: "

IronRangeMike: "

Stumpy: "sad"

Seconded. "

Stumpy or IRM... sad in what way? Interested in your perspective in 20 seconds or less."

My guess is they are for it because it would bring good paying jobs into a community that isn’t as vibrant as it was when they lived there. This is the story of small town America. My home town was the home to Boyt manufacturing and farmland foods. Now those factories look like Beruit… It’s sad…I wish it could change, but it isn’t going to.

The Chilean Mining company has assured us that they can mine with no negative environmental impact…that sounds great! Why would any sane person be opposed to revitalization of the community with no environmental impact?

That’s the argument for mining and it is compelling…the issue is a review of the mining company’s history shows they have NEVER mined with no environmental impact. In fact, they have flaunted environmental protection laws in many countries because the unfortunate fact is the fines violating laws are peanuts compared to the cost of cleanup. They pay the fine and leave the clean up cost to the community/government.

I believe your past performance predicts your future. So count me as a big NO go to this mining.

T

timatkn: "

bobbernumber3: "

IronRangeMike: "

Stumpy: "sad"

Seconded. "

Stumpy or IRM... sad in what way? Interested in your perspective in 20 seconds or less."

My guess is they are for it because it would bring good paying jobs into a community that isn’t as vibrant as it was when they lived there. This is the story of small town America. My home town was the home to Boyt manufacturing and farmland foods. Now those factories look like Beruit… It’s sad…I wish it could change, but it isn’t going to.

The Chilean Mining company has assured us that they can mine with no negative environmental impact…that sounds great! Why would any sane person be opposed to revitalization of the community with no environmental impact?

That’s the argument for mining and it is compelling…the issue is a review of the mining company’s history shows they have NEVER mined with no environmental impact. In fact, they have flaunted environmental protection laws in many countries because the unfortunate fact is the fines violating laws are peanuts compared to the cost of cleanup. They pay the fine and leave the clean up cost to the community/government.

I believe your past performance predicts your future. So count me as a big NO go to this mining.

T"

Your first two paragraphs nailed it for me.... I love Ely.
As for the second two... I believe technology, and our EPA laws have come a long way, and will protect the BWCA, which I also love.

Here’s my $.02. Twin Metals has obviously spent money on the project already. There have been some people from Ely that have financially benefited. There have been companies from out of the area that have come in done a lot of work. When they needed laborers they hired a few Ely men. These are not the kinds of jobs you hope for the future. Transient laborers. If this is going to be a high tech mine that means companies from out of town will be brought in to develop and run the mine. Technology will be used to save labor cost (fewer jobs). I don’t see hundreds of jobs being created.

Ely already has a labor shortage just like everywhere else. Some of the businesses have limited hours because they don’t have workers. Not because business is slow. I’m involved in the building/construction trades. Every trade is wishing they could find skilled, motivated workers. These are the same people the mines would employ. We need workers not jobs.

Most people understand when the mining is done so are the owners. We WILL be left with the aftermath.

When I lived in Wisconsin, my work took me to hundreds of Wisconsin and Minnesota towns. Ely's struggles are ubiquitous. Many small towns are gutted. Ely is different because of its proximity to ore AND its proximity to a national treasure. Ely, unlike the hundreds of other, gutted area towns where I've worked, has millions of eyes on it and millions of people caring about its choice.

Finnboy makes a great observation, about the trades in the Ely area needing skilled workers and paying living wages for that work.

timatkn did a great job of arguing, leading with the antithesis of his thesis, proving that he has the breadth of vision to consider both sides.

Maine is similar to Ely, with millions of out-of-staters coming here each summer to enjoy its beauty. A Norwegian firm wants to raise Atlantic salmon here and it's triggered conflict, with the richer people not wanting to risk the bay to become polluted and the working class wanting the 100 well-paying, promised, and allegedly permanent jobs. Like Ely, there's a local versus national interest at stake, with possible environmental peril, but many of the richer people who oppose it eat salmon, as many who oppose the Ely mine use copper.

I'm for the salmon farming because of the Norwegian track record, but against the mine based upon the Chilean mining company's record and also because it's loving to keep SOME ore in the ground for our grandchildren and great-grandchildren, as our descendants will need copper for their electronics too. Lastly, future generations might have the technology to safely extract that Ely-area ore without imperiling a national treasure.

thegildedgopher: "

Maiingan: "Yes. The Talon mine would be 8 miles from Big Sandy Lake. Big Sandy flows into the Mississippi through a dam on the west side. The whole area is wetlands.



What makes one watershed fragile and others not? Minneapolis and St. Paul get their drinking water from the Mississippi. "

Exactly. Just because the areas downstream are highly developed doesn't mean there won't be consequences.


If you want a status symbol, buy a Tesla. If you want an eco-friendly means of transportation, ride a bicycle (and not a carbon frame for the love of zeus)."

My question is so off-topic, but what's wrong with a carbon-frame bike? For the record, I ride a steel frame and the same steel frame I bought when I was 14, so I've been riding it for 51 years, which is ULTRA-eco-friendly.

Missmolly, I found this article comparing carbon fiber to steel

Soledad: "Missmolly, I found this article comparing carbon fiber to steel "

Yes, it takes a massive amount of energy to produce carbon fiber and it's difficult to recycle and completely non-biodegradable. In other words, when your carbon frame or rims crack, they will more than likely be destined to sit in a landfill for a very, very long time. I do have hopes that we will engineer better solutions to those problems in the future, but we're not there yet.

Here's a bike-specific article worth reading as well.

"There are piles of broken carbon frames and wheels behind the factories that make bikes in China and Taiwan. There are literally city blocks worth of broken bikes, that were discarded due to quality control issues, and they’re just sitting there"

Here's what my takeaway from carbon fiber bike frames: "YIKES!"

Steelily yours,

Old Molly

so, is this somehow related to carbon fiber internet service, too?

Mocha: "so, is this somehow related to carbon fiber internet service, too?"

Fiber optical cables have a silica based core (glass like) as far as I know. There is also a sheath covering that light transmuting core. I do not know anything about the sheath. Carbon fiber is, however, used in some canoes. Steel in old bike frames might have come from the iron range.

Although there are lots of materials needed for things in everyday life, I am glad that the BWCA will be protected.

Optical fiber, perhaps?

"Lastly, future generations might have the technology to safely extract that Ely-area ore without imperiling a national treasure."

Bingo missmolly! An old Schwinn would offer better exercise than a custom fit carbon bike if exercise was the true goal. I feel that same way about what's under the surface at Anwar. Save it for a rainy day.

“If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.”

Plus, someday, someone may even find a better solution or a better use for whatever time, materials and waste may be involved with currently available methods and priorities. Or not.

Mr. Me2, I'm glad that we agree that we shouldn't gobble all the oil and ores simply because we can. I interviewed the CEO of Alcoa once and he said that not only are we running out of aluminum ore, but nearly all ores. I also interviewed the CEO of the civil engineering company that's building the infrastructure for the coming mining of Greenland and just because we can gut Greenland doesn't mean we should.

Saving oil is essential, given that we use it for so many things. It feels wasteful to burn it, given its million other applications.

Great quote, btw.

Stumpy: "

timatkn: "

bobbernumber3: "

IronRangeMike: "

Stumpy: "sad"

Seconded. "

Stumpy or IRM... sad in what way? Interested in your perspective in 20 seconds or less."

My guess is they are for it because it would bring good paying jobs into a community that isn’t as vibrant as it was when they lived there. This is the story of small town America. My home town was the home to Boyt manufacturing and farmland foods. Now those factories look like Beruit… It’s sad…I wish it could change, but it isn’t going to.


The Chilean Mining company has assured us that they can mine with no negative environmental impact…that sounds great! Why would any sane person be opposed to revitalization of the community with no environmental impact?


That’s the argument for mining and it is compelling…the issue is a review of the mining company’s history shows they have NEVER mined with no environmental impact. In fact, they have flaunted environmental protection laws in many countries because the unfortunate fact is the fines violating laws are peanuts compared to the cost of cleanup. They pay the fine and leave the clean up cost to the community/government.


I believe your past performance predicts your future. So count me as a big NO go to this mining.


T"

Your first two paragraphs nailed it for me.... I love Ely.
As for the second two... I believe technology, and our EPA laws have come a long way, and will protect the BWCA, which I also love."

I really see your side Stumpy… The issue I have is this specific Mining company doesn’t care. Our EPA laws are similar and in EVERY case this company has chosen to pay the fines and leave an environmental mess… Isn’t the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

The technology might be there but Twin Metals hasn’t chosen to use it due to cost. Why now? Once again history predicts results.

T

double post. delete

Stumpy: "

timatkn: "

bobbernumber3: "

IronRangeMike: "

Stumpy: "sad"

Seconded. "

Stumpy or IRM... sad in what way? Interested in your perspective in 20 seconds or less."

My guess is they are for it because it would bring good paying jobs into a community that isn’t as vibrant as it was when they lived there. This is the story of small town America. My home town was the home to Boyt manufacturing and farmland foods. Now those factories look like Beruit… It’s sad…I wish it could change, but it isn’t going to.


The Chilean Mining company has assured us that they can mine with no negative environmental impact…that sounds great! Why would any sane person be opposed to revitalization of the community with no environmental impact?


That’s the argument for mining and it is compelling…the issue is a review of the mining company’s history shows they have NEVER mined with no environmental impact. In fact, they have flaunted environmental protection laws in many countries because the unfortunate fact is the fines violating laws are peanuts compared to the cost of cleanup. They pay the fine and leave the clean up cost to the community/government.


I believe your past performance predicts your future. So count me as a big NO go to this mining.


T"

Your first two paragraphs nailed it for me.... I love Ely.
As for the second two... I believe technology, and our EPA laws have come a long way, and will protect the BWCA, which I also love."

As usual, I concur with Stumpy, save the love for Ely. I loathe that town, but love the area surrounding it. Too many Becky Roms, Steve Piragis, and other crunchy types for my liking.

Not to say that there aren’t a ton of hard working, blue collar, salt of the earth, great people there too. Some of them are dear friends and family members, but the swampies, crunchies, Becky’s, and Steve’s drive them bat shit crazy too.

I get both side of the argument. I’ve often pondered while standing on top of a hill or mine dump overlooking the active mines and thought, damn I bet this place was pretty before the Merritt brothers found that ugly red rock that stained every pair of pants and shoes I owned as a child. There are plenty of pretty areas still left around here as well.

However I also wouldn’t have been able to grow up in NE MN and probably wouldn’t love the outdoors the way I do or have spent more time in them than most of the rest of you combined. Mining allowed my father to raise me in a place that I love while providing a beautiful home on great union wages and benefits.

I grew up fishing in abandoned mine pits next to town, riding dirt bikes, four wheelers, and snowmobiles on miles of abandoned mine roads and dumps. It was a great way to grow up and many of my friends and myself are doing it with our kids as well.

I could go on for hours on this issue but I won’t. My opinion won’t sway anyone. 99% of people have their mind made up on this issue one way or the other. I’m just happy to live and be employed on the range (not Ely) where I can make a living wage.

Mike

Post script

The town I grew up in (Buhl) is surrounded by abandoned pits that mined iron ore. All of which is sulfide containing BTW.

There’s still a bottling plant in town that bottles and sells untreated municipal drinking water. No aquifer pollution smack dab in the middle of 135 plus years of active mining?!?!? Holy H2O Batman!!!!

That is an excellent article (the one Minnesotian mentioned).. Very refreshing to read something thoughtful rather than the output of yet another rage factory. Thanks!

IronRangeMike: "Post script


The town I grew up in (Buhl) is surrounded by abandoned pits that mined iron ore. All of which is sulfide containing BTW.


There’s still a bottling plant in town that bottles and sells untreated municipal drinking water. No aquifer pollution smack dab in the middle of 135 plus years of active mining?!?!? Holy H2O Batman!!!! "

I buy that water ever time I go to my cabin (to use before I get the lake water running)
I have no hope of changing minds, as this mine has been promised & discussed for over 40 years. I have Ely Echo articles on it from the 1970's.
Going into 3 generations now, of locals having their chain yanked.
BTW..... "Swampies"..... lol....I love it !