I normally try for my permits fairly early in the process and have never had a problem getting my desired permits, though things have been tighter the past couple years. This morning I logged on a couple minutes after the opening bell. My desired permit (East Bearskin, 5/13) was already gone. I grabbed the last permit for Cross Bay on that date and the last one for East Bearskin for 5/20. My buddy struggled to find a Duncan day that worked for him. He was also logged in a couple minutes after 9:00. Clearwater is sold out from 5/11-9/11. Not a single permit available. Crazy!!!!!

So, what's going on? It feels like outfitters snatching them up? Anyone with knowledge on this?

A lot of it has to do with there being 5,000 fewer permits total.

Outfitters have to go through the same process as the rest of us. No special treatment for them to get permits for their booked customers. This year it definitely paid to know which entry points and dates are most in demand. I had my list laid out in order of difficulty to get so i could prioritize. Got them all.

I'm just guessing but I feel more people are getting their permits NOW instead of waiting around like they used to.

With the fewer permits. The busy last couple of years. Also 3 articles in the Star Tribune on the fewer permits! Pretty sure everyone who was even thinking about going got hit over the head several time to be ready to get the permits this morning!

I had a work meeting this morning and couldn’t not be at it. My outfitter got my permits for me which is awesome. My trips are July and 2 in August so that probably helps a little when mine are being pulled.

Permits are not transferable. Outfitters can’t hoard them. They have to put a primary permit holder on the permit. It’s not like they can use a bogus name and then transfer it. I suppose they could pull a bunch of permits they think the would need. They would have to then cancel them at some point and then wait to pull the permit again for the party they had going. My understanding is it doesn’t just instantly appear. It will come back as being available within the next two days after being cancelled. So basically it’s not a sure thing if they are playing that game.

Little Garbo went in the first hour if not less for the whole season. Crazy!

Ryan

I am one of the people who doesn't usually book on the first day but did because of the reduced permits. But I don't go for very popular dates or EPs with few slots. I didn't start until a few hours after the opening. I got what I wanted and could get close to it right now.

The outfitters not only go through the same system but can't book permits unless they have a client because they need the trip leader's name and info. I suspect they are quite busy just filling the orders they have without modifying things.

We'll see how things go over the next few months but I suspect I didn't really need to book today and could have done it in March like usual and been happy.

I also think cats out of the bag.

With more people turning to outdoor adventure as something to do many realized how AWESOME the BWCA is compared to state park campgrounds etc. That's my thoughts.

But yes, also lots fewer permits.

I also think there are a lot of people not going back to work or retiring. Three guys I know got a taste of not working during stay at home and decided not to go back to work. I think they are calling it “The Great Resignation”. With reduced income they may be looking for less expensive activities.

Thanks for the responses. I assumed that the reduction in permits and increase in overall and BWCA specific outdoor recreation would lead to a busy Permit Day. But, I didn't think the obvious factors could fully explain what we witnessed.

I didn't know how it worked with the outfitters, so I appreciate being educated on that. Still though, four months worth of Clearwater permits gone on Day 1? Unbelievable!

I think you will see a higher than normal cancellation rate also. If your in that boat- as many do on this site- post a cancellation notice ASAP so others may be able to go.

The issue with camping permits being taken early in the year isn't unique to the BWCA. Voyaguers National Park permits are available on November 15th. Knowing that Memorial weekend would be busy, I got a permit for Kabetogama first. Then I searched for a Namakan permit for our wedding anniversary weekend in late August. By that time, all of what I consider choice campsites were take. I did finally find a campsite but not one of the better ones.
We usually take 3-4 trips to Voyaguers and a couple to the BWCA each year. It's difficult planning your summer weekends in November & January not knowing what else will come up.

Bjelde: "Thanks for the responses. I assumed that the reduction in permits and increase in overall and BWCA specific outdoor recreation would lead to a busy Permit Day. But, I didn't think the obvious factors could fully explain what we witnessed.


I didn't know how it worked with the outfitters, so I appreciate being educated on that. Still though, four months worth of Clearwater permits gone on Day 1? Unbelievable!"

Are u sure u were looking at paddle permits and not day use or overnite motor? It does seem odd that all permits would be gone no w for paddle

WhiteWolf, my thoughts exactly on cancellations.

I think the responses have it covered;
1. Increased use caused by covid restrictions over the last two years and the great resignation has a much larger pool of trippers.
2. Fewer permits and news of fewer permits.
3. Struggles obtaining permits the last two years later in the season.

This is the first year I've booked on opening day, I was on at 9, booked my two permits and had no issues, went back and looked later in the day and they were all sold out...makes me worried about campsite availability. Not only will we need to be first in line to get the permit, but i'm hitting the EP at first light to give us the best opportunity to find an open site.

Yeah a big part of it has to do with people knowing your chances of booking a permit later in the year are very slim & you wont have luck. People just throw stuff on the books for now and then decide later if plans change they will cancel. It's the same thing with state park camping. You either book early or don't get the opportunity later. Maybe they should not offer refunds for cancellations that may or may not help?

Mocha:
Are u sure u were looking at paddle permits and not day use or overnite motor? It does seem odd that all permits would be gone no w for paddle"

Yup. I checked overnight paddle and overnight motor. Same result. I checked again this morning, and interestingly, a couple had popped back up as being available.

OMGitsKa: "Maybe they should not offer refunds for cancellations that may or may not help?"

I've thought about this as well. The only unfortunate sticking point is, say I couldn't get the date/EP for August that I wanted yesterday, so I booked a different, less-desirable EP. I log back on in July and notice that somebody's cancelled and now my preferred EP is available on that same date. Surrendering my first permit would count as a "cancellation" since there is no mechanism for "exchanging." That seems kind of lame that you'd have to pay twice. Then again, it might generate some much-needed revenue for the USFS. It gets complicated, but I'd be favor of one full refund per customer per year, with any additional cancellations non-refundable. Also in favor of an annual limit of permits per person.

Bjelde: "

Mocha:
Are u sure u were looking at paddle permits and not day use or overnite motor? It does seem odd that all permits would be gone no w for paddle"

Yup. I checked overnight paddle and overnight motor. Same result. I checked again this morning, and interestingly, a couple had popped back up as being available."

Cancellations happening that fast might point to multiple people from the same group all trying to book permits at once in hopes that at least one of them got the desired ep/date. I think/hope people might be overreacting to the madness of day 1, and we could potentially see a lot more availability over the course of the summer as plans solidify and groups surrender redundant permits.

thegildedgopher: That seems kind of lame that you'd have to pay twice. Then again, it might generate some much-needed revenue for the USFS."

The service charge on recreation.gov goes to the company hosting the site, not the USFS.

I logged on yesterday around 3 and picked up the last permit that I could find for Clearwater EP on June 13th. I wasn't planning on getting a permit just yet but when I saw that none were available, I figured that waiting was not a great option. I'll have to check again to see if more are available now, but the timing ended up working out pretty well so I'll probably just leave it as is.

All these comments indicate to me that we're going to have another repeat of the last 2 years....too many paddlers at the major EPs, campsites within a days paddle at those areas in very high demand, etc, etc.

Hoping you all have better weather and zero fires like we've seen the past couple seasons....

straighthairedcurly: "Outfitters have to go through the same process as the rest of us. No special treatment for them to get permits for their booked customers. This year it definitely paid to know which entry points and dates are most in demand. I had my list laid out in order of difficulty to get so i could prioritize. Got them all."

You are spot on regarding outfitters. One of my groups is DM and our well known outfitter has made it clear since 2019 change that we have to get our own permits.

It felt a lot like when the BW reopened after the fire stuff last fall: open stuff went really fast. That said, I also wouldn't be surprised if a few permits reopen in the coming days and weeks as people finalize plans better. Clearwater, for instance, is always quick to go, but I have had luck picking up returned permits the last couple years if my days are flexible. And it looks like my trips to the popular entry points will be saved for October-April again. But hey, if anyone wants PowWow permits, you're in luck!

I just checked recreation.gov and there are a crap ton of permits available all summer. There are a few popular entries that all almost booked all summer.

2 things-

1. This might force people to Try new entry points. Hey, that might be fun!

2. The consumption of permits early in the year proves to me that the permit reduction was a good idea and that the trend of increased use is continuing into this season. Therefore, the base-camping issue and entry lake traffic jams will continue. The permit reduction will help but only by 13% so expect more chaos!

Tom

tumblehome: "I just checked recreation.gov and there are a crap ton of permits available all summer. There are a few popular entries that all almost booked all summer.


2 things-


1. This might force people to Try new entry points. Hey, that might be fun!


2. The consumption of permits early in the year proves to me that the permit reduction was a good idea and that the trend of increased use is continuing into this season. Therefore, the base-camping issue and entry lake traffic jams will continue. The permit reduction will help but only by 13% so expect more chaos!


Tom
The question I have is what will be the number of illegal campers this year relative to the last two years. I speculate that it’s illegal campers
That have caused most of the problems the last two years.


"

Next time you're driving through a construction zone with a lane blocked off, watch the behavior of other drivers and the effect the lane reduction has on your own travel time.

You just got a preview of BWCAW 2022.

I have to admit that the reduced permits forced me to get one on the open. I would have waited in past years to plan my trip.

We are not using any more permits than we otherwise would just booked early and got the last permit on the day of our preferred entry.