I received this note from Dan Shirley at Sawbill Outfitters: The Forest sent notice out to cooperators in early February. Wilderness regulations still have food storage requirements that are not as strict as "SIC - The bear barrel only" order provided.

Thanks, good to know although it won't change anything I'm doing.

For the benefit of anyone like me who seeks to verify this refers to the SNF-wide order from last summer, here is a link to that order. You and your pet bear will starve long before you find it where it’s supposed to be listed on the SNF website. (BTW, the order from two years ago for the five lakes at the end of the Gunflint still appears there, and I’ve found no evidence of its rescission.)

ORDER 09-09-21-09

Woohoooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also checked to make sure it was the same one but can attest that it's not easily findable. Searching the SNF order number will do it for future reference.

Thanks. Although I'm not at all sure what this means.

LesliesDad: "Thanks. Although I'm not at all sure what this means. "

My understanding:

The order from last summer (09-09-21-09) that required hanging food or using certified bear-resistant containers (Bearvault, Ursack) and effectively prohibited the use of the popular blue barrels has been terminated.

Basically, you can use blue barrels for food storage again.

Thanks, that would make sense. I mean heck, those blue barrels have been SOP in the BWCA for a long time now.

geotramper: "

LesliesDad: "Thanks. Although I'm not at all sure what this means. "

My understanding:


The order from last summer (09-09-21-09) that required hanging food or using certified bear-resistant containers (Bearvault, Ursack) and effectively prohibited the use of the popular blue barrels has been terminated.


Basically, you can use blue barrels for food storage again. "

Just to be sure, are things back to the way they used to be? My understanding was that blue barrels were not required either. We've always used 5 gallon buckets with gamma seal lids (with sealed plastic bags inside) that we stashed in the woods.

Is this back to being legal again?

Chuckles: "

geotramper: "

LesliesDad: "Thanks. Although I'm not at all sure what this means. "

My understanding:



The order from last summer (09-09-21-09) that required hanging food or using certified bear-resistant containers (Bearvault, Ursack) and effectively prohibited the use of the popular blue barrels has been terminated.



Basically, you can use blue barrels for food storage again. "

Just to be sure, are things back to the way they used to be? My understanding was that blue barrels were not required either. We've always used 5 gallon buckets with gamma seal lids (with sealed plastic bags inside) that we stashed in the woods.


Is this back to being legal again?
"

Yes

I believe the use of blue barrels were never banned, you just needed to hang them.

egknuti: "I believe the use of blue barrels were never banned, you just needed to hang them. "

True

All good information. I'm sure that this will continue to evolve as the season approaches.

egknuti: "I believe the use of blue barrels were never banned, you just needed to hang them. "

Precisely.

And to point out to some folks - a bear vault will slide nicely right down into a blue barrel.
You can place all of your potentially smelly food into a bear vault - put into a blue barrel with all the rest of your cooking gear - and enjoy the advantages a blue barrel will offer.

I converted over to the bear vault from the blue barrels. Which ones I use might depend on the trip if the orders stay rescinded.

What really disappointments me about the bear vault is unlike the blue barrels I have they are not water/air tight. The water seal is great for rain/water protection. In a 3 day downpour water still got into the bear vault—never had this issue before. The airtight seal is great for smells I prefer to prevent bears from entering my camp by reducing my impact and smells…not tempt them and use my barrel to thwart their efforts.

I guess I could use both, but that seems like a lot of extra weight…I will just analyze each trip and the needs and make a decision one way or another.

T

I guess I should have clarified that by "effectively prohibited the use of blue barrels" I meant "prohibited the use of a blue barrel as the 'primary' means of food protection from bears"

"Hooray! We can once again be more careless with the way we store our food!"

I get how folks who have invested in blue barrels and buckets with gamma seals feel that they are resistant enough to bears and would rather not go to the effort to hang them appropriately, but how long before the problem that necessitated the order in the first place rears its ugly head once again?

It would be interesting to know what kind of data the forest service has on bears getting food from campers in the BWCA. Is it more common they get fed by destroying/carrying off a barrel or getting a hung food bag?

Based on my intuition and anecdotal stories I’ve heard I would guess more hung bags have been hit but I would love to know for sure.

Hammertime: "It would be interesting to know what kind of data the forest service has on bears getting food from campers in the BWCA. Is it more common they get fed by destroying/carrying off a barrel or getting a hung food bag?


Based on my intuition and anecdotal stories I’ve heard I would guess more hung bags have been hit but I would love to know for sure."

Me too. I also would like to know the storage method the "hit" campers were using. It was mentioned in a different post that some bears have learned to take food packs on portages. True?
I wish I had not bought an Ursack in Jan. I could have used that $100.00+ to buy a tank of gas.

schweady: ""Hooray! We can once again be more careless with the way we store our food!"


I get how folks who have invested in blue barrels and buckets with gamma seals feel that they are resistant enough to bears and would rather not go to the effort to hang them appropriately, but how long before the problem that necessitated the order in the first place rears its ugly head once again?
"

Right? It's like my question to people so eager to hear that storage mandates are rescinded. I ask, "Why do you need it to be a mandate for you to handle your food safely and responsibly?" Well, after the last couple years, I've pretty much given-up hope of ever getting a rational answer to that kind of question.

schweady: ""Hooray! We can once again be more careless with the way we store our food!"


I get how folks who have invested in blue barrels and buckets with gamma seals feel that they are resistant enough to bears and would rather not go to the effort to hang them appropriately, but how long before the problem that necessitated the order in the first place rears its ugly head once again?
"

While I don’t disagree that part of the issue is people being careless with food I disagree the blue barrels or gamma seals are the pariah some say. I don’t have the official statistics on me but according to the FS the issue was improperly hung food bags, people bringing unsecured coolers, hanging camp trash bags from trees lien they were picnicking or bears coming into camp while people were eating —anecdotally from posts on this site and FB who had bear issues backs this up. I certainly don’t consider barrels bear proof but the amount of flak and angst blue barrels get seem out of proportion to the amount of times in the BWCAW they are the issue.

If we outlaw the food security method most commonly breached by bears we would outlaw hanging which would be ridiculous. Although with the recent fires people will need to plan alternatives to hanging…

T

mschi772: "

schweady: ""Hooray! We can once again be more careless with the way we store our food!"



I get how folks who have invested in blue barrels and buckets with gamma seals feel that they are resistant enough to bears and would rather not go to the effort to hang them appropriately, but how long before the problem that necessitated the order in the first place rears its ugly head once again?
"

Right? It's like my question to people so eager to hear that storage mandates are rescinded. I ask, "Why do you need it to be a mandate for you to handle your food safely and responsibly?" Well, after the last couple years, I've pretty much given-up hope of ever getting a rational answer to that kind of question."

Yep, agreed. Just because the order was rescinded this year regarding the usage of blue barrels, there is nothing preventing that order to come back into effect again in the near future. As long as the blue barrel is not an officially recognized bear resistant container listed on the IGB Container list this problem will continually come up. The long term survivability of using a blue barrel is limited. I would recommend to anyone just getting into canoe camping to resist investing in a blue barrel.

I'm OK with wilderness rangers handing out fines for improper food storage, regardless of the method.

Did a terrible job of hanging, and a bear got it? Fined.

Left your BearVault9000 sitting open in camp while you went out bushcrafting in an adjacent PMA? Fined.

Portaged in a blue barrel full of nothing but loose kipper snacks, hid it 300 yards back in the woods behind the latrine, ratchet-strapped to a tree, but failed to secure the clamp that otherwise would have rendered it 100% odorless? Fined.

Minnesotian: "

mschi772: "

schweady: ""Hooray! We can once again be more careless with the way we store our food!"



I get how folks who have invested in blue barrels and buckets with gamma seals feel that they are resistant enough to bears and would rather not go to the effort to hang them appropriately, but how long before the problem that necessitated the order in the first place rears its ugly head once again?
"

Right? It's like my question to people so eager to hear that storage mandates are rescinded. I ask, "Why do you need it to be a mandate for you to handle your food safely and responsibly?" Well, after the last couple years, I've pretty much given-up hope of ever getting a rational answer to that kind of question."

Yep, agreed. Just because the order was rescinded this year regarding the usage of blue barrels, there is nothing preventing that order to come back into effect again in the near future. As long as the blue barrel is not an officially recognized bear resistant container listed on the IGB Container list this problem will continually come up. The long term survivability of using a blue barrel is limited. I would recommend to anyone just getting into canoe camping to resist investing in a blue barrel. "

I agree that it is on borrowed time which is why I really want a company to attempt a purpose-built ~30-60 liter container that is satisfactory as far as bears are concerned. Right now the closest thing out there is the 30 liter Ursack, and while that is a great option, it isn't really a replacement for a hard, air/water-tight container you can carry on your back.

Blue barrels don't feed bears, stupid people doing stupid things feed bears.
I believe there's nothing inherently wrong with the the system of stashing a sealed and secured blue barrel off in the woods away from camp. It's been SOP for countless trippers for years in the BWCA without incident.