Having never been to the boundary Waters park how crowded is it compared to other national parks, years ago I went to some out west that they now need permits to go to and they were very crowded for my liking

Another reason people on this forum "Who Know Better" need to stop calling the BWCAW a "Park".
The BWCAW/Boundary Waters is not a park. It is a wilderness area within the boundaries of the Superior National Forest.

OK rant over.
To the OP, compared to National Parks like Yellowstone, Yosemite or others, the BWCAW wilderness area is way less crowded. I am a retired Ranger who has worked for the Superior National Forest as well as three National Parks. Visiting the Boundary Waters Wilderness area.

Hi there!
As another person has already said, the BWCA is not a park at all, but a wilderness area. There are no welcome centers, bathrooms, trail centers, gift shops, etc. it is very rugged and all about getting out into the wilderness. Perhaps you are thinking of Voyageurs National Park in Minnesota? That is a national park that is near/next to (west) of the Boundary Waters. I’ve never been there so I’m not sure how crowded it gets.

It depends on the time of the year if it will be crowded. In the summer months the most popular routes can be crowded, by crowded I mean there might not be a campsite on the lake you want. Might need to paddle of to another lake. The permit system only let a certain number of permits a day. Its not at all like Yellowstone or Yosemite. Go to YouTube and look at the three Forest Service videos they made to get an idea. Come on up, the water is fine.

About 180,000 people per year visit the park.

I've been making a trip in the Spring and another in the Fall for the last 20 years and I still think of it as a park. Last year I skipped the Fall trip and bought a new promaster camper/conversion van to see some of the national parks and other natural areas out West. I met my partner in crime at the Vegas airport, For the Month of September we hit Zion, Canyonlands, Natural Bridges, Bryce Canyon, Arches, Capitol Reef, Bears Ears, Cedar Breaks, Glen Canyon, Grand Staircase, Rocky Mountain, Mesa Verde, Medicine Bow, Wind Cave, Black Hills, Devils Tower, Custer, Rushmore, Crazy Horse, and the Badlands. It was an epic road trip of around 5000 miles of two lane roads with no freeways and free camping on BLM lands.
Things I would do before ever visiting another national park: play frisbee at the local dog park all day.. barefoot, get a second vasectomy, get a third hernia operation. The amount of people was beyond my comprehension, left Rocky Mountain after about 1 hour every trailhead and pull off area was assholes to elbows, never even got out of the van. We saw some truly great and memorable places all of them outside the parks. The BWCA is not like other places for one basic reason, it takes effort to get there and that automatically eliminates 99 percent of the population from ever visiting.

nooneuno: "Things I would do before ever visiting another national park: play frisbee at the local dog park all day.. barefoot, get a second vasectomy, get a third hernia operation. The amount of people was beyond my comprehension, left Rocky Mountain after about 1 hour every trailhead and pull off area was assholes to elbows, never even got out of the van. We saw some truly great and memorable places all of them outside the parks. The BWCA is not like other places for one basic reason, it takes effort to get there and that automatically eliminates 99 percent of the population from ever visiting."

Made me chuckle for sure. Vasectomy left me with the "Kicked in the nuts" feeling in my lower abdomen for a year.

I wonder what the increase in visitorship (is that a word?) has been since Covid. I've been to all the places you listed pre-covid and they weren't busy. Relatively speaking we're seeing the same thing in the BW. Permits are hard to get, portages are crowded, campsites are full. I wonder if there will be additional permit reductions or any other management changes in the years to come if they continue to experiance the issues of the last two years.

No outdoor space is immune these days.

Anyone been following the opening of the new drive-in campground at Split Rock Lighthouse State Park? Shipwreck Creek Campground contains 45 sites, all with electric service, in a park that previously only offered cart-in sites.

Yesterday, reservations opened for arrival dates June 1 - August 3. In the first 2.5 hours, 91.5% of the dates available were reserved. Today, after reservations had been offered for just a little over 24 hours, 96.5% were taken and there were no sites available for 2 consecutive nights.

nooneuno: "
Things I would do before ever visiting another national park: play frisbee at the local dog park all day.. barefoot, get a second vasectomy, get a third hernia operation. The amount of people was beyond my comprehension, left Rocky Mountain after about 1 hour every trailhead and pull off area was assholes to elbows, never even got out of the van. We saw some truly great and memorable places all of them outside the parks. The BWCA is not like other places for one basic reason, it takes effort to get there and that automatically eliminates 99 percent of the population from ever visiting."

Sounds like you were doing everything that everyone else at those parks was trying to do, drive to a trailhead and go on a day hike. To truly experience these parks you need to get into the interior of them. They are not nearly as crowded as everyone thinks, just need to stop visiting them like a gift shop. Get in there like you would the BWCA, get into the backcounty and they can be enjoyed away from the crowds.

jamdemos: "

nooneuno: "
Things I would do before ever visiting another national park: play frisbee at the local dog park all day.. barefoot, get a second vasectomy, get a third hernia operation. The amount of people was beyond my comprehension, left Rocky Mountain after about 1 hour every trailhead and pull off area was assholes to elbows, never even got out of the van. We saw some truly great and memorable places all of them outside the parks. The BWCA is not like other places for one basic reason, it takes effort to get there and that automatically eliminates 99 percent of the population from ever visiting."

Sounds like you were doing everything that everyone else at those parks was trying to do, drive to a trailhead and go on a day hike. To truly experience these parks you need to get into the interior of them. They are not nearly as crowded as everyone thinks, just need to stop visiting them like a gift shop. Get in there like you would the BWCA, get into the backcounty and they can be enjoyed away from the crowds."

That's my experience too. Hike a mile from the road and it's just you and the 'yotes.

missmolly: "

jamdemos: "

nooneuno: "
Things I would do before ever visiting another national park: play frisbee at the local dog park all day.. barefoot, get a second vasectomy, get a third hernia operation. The amount of people was beyond my comprehension, left Rocky Mountain after about 1 hour every trailhead and pull off area was assholes to elbows, never even got out of the van. We saw some truly great and memorable places all of them outside the parks. The BWCA is not like other places for one basic reason, it takes effort to get there and that automatically eliminates 99 percent of the population from ever visiting."

Sounds like you were doing everything that everyone else at those parks was trying to do, drive to a trailhead and go on a day hike. To truly experience these parks you need to get into the interior of them. They are not nearly as crowded as everyone thinks, just need to stop visiting them like a gift shop. Get in there like you would the BWCA, get into the backcounty and they can be enjoyed away from the crowds."

That's my experience too. Hike a mile from the road and it's just you and the 'yotes. "

That was my experience at Grand Teton National Park in September. Got to hike the Teton Crest Trail and after a mile from the parking lot and past the last scenic overlook, no one.

The one hour long traffic jam to get from the turn off to the first ranger shack where you can present your permit if you were lucky enough to just get one would more than prove some of you have no experience with the parks at all. After that you can consider that parking is only allowed in designated spots and every spot is full. God help you if any animal larger than a squirrel bares it’s head and traffic is dead stopped for several miles. We had our mountain bikes With us so we went that route was the traffic was terrible

bobbernumber3: "About 180,000 people per year visit the park."

What park?

SummerSkin: "

bobbernumber3: "About 180,000 people per year visit the park."

What park?"

Bwcaw

I hear ya LindenTree…

It can be busy, but nothing like a National park. For example Yellowstone has 4-5 million per year (almost 30x more people) compared the BWCA and there a system in place to disperse. If you are going to canoe a few minutes and set up camp. It will be busy. If ya travel, I almost always have days where I barely see anyone.

Your other option is Quetico. Same size area about 90% less use than the BWCA. Quetico is a “Park” though:) they manage it “wilderness like” but can seem more like a wilderness due to less people.

T

Okay, I'm going to humbly weigh-in here...

The BWCAW is a "park." It's also the "BWCA," the "B'Dub," and whatever anyone else wants to call it. Stop gatekeeping what people want to call it. That's just a trite assertion of dominance and an attempt at being hierarchically dictatorial. Yuk. I've never heard anyone say, "I'm going up into the Wilderness next week" and mean the BWCA.

Okay, now my rant is over, sorry. I have respect for all members here.

In all seriousness, it does sort of feel like this year things are loosening up and people will be into other things and not necessarily all be running to the BWCA. That will make the permit reduction all the sweeter. I agree with an earlier post that says that traveling any real distance should provide pretty good solitude this year.

My two cents.

"You may fire when ready." -Grand Moff Tarkin

It depends on the time of year and your EP. Don't discount a trip in September. I'm fairly certain that the numbers will go down once the less "outdoorsy" people return to their usual vacation destinations.

bobbernumber3: "

SummerSkin: "

bobbernumber3: "About 180,000 people per year visit the park."

What park?"

Bwcaw"

But.........it's not a park.

scottiebaldwin: "Okay, I'm going to humbly weigh-in here...

The BWCAW is a "park." It's also the "BWCA," the "B'Dub," and whatever anyone else wants to call it. Stop gatekeeping what people want to call it. That's just a trite assertion of dominance and an attempt at being hierarchically dictatorial. Yuk. I've never heard anyone say, "I'm going up into the Wilderness next week" and mean the BWCA.

Okay, now my rant is over, sorry. I have respect for all members here.

"You may fire when ready." -Grand Moff Tarkin"

“ Stop gatekeeping what people want to call it. That's just a trite assertion of dominance and an attempt at being hierarchically dictatorial.”
That seems a little over the top…I am sorry this is so triggering to you, causing you to use micro-aggression against people trying to use the proper noun. (I am trying to be funny so don’t come up on stage and slap me)

I feel like you extrapolated one comment into multiple. No one on here said BWCA, B dub, or other names were wrong—None of those are “park” BTW. Heck it’s ‘Merica…you can call it what you want…Just like people can say technically it’s not a Park :) Heck when I was a rookie I said Park too…but when I said that my outfitter corrected me, explained the differences and the rules I needed to follow. I can still call it that, won’t change anything for me now so in the scheme of things not a HUGE deal…it’s just technically wrong—nothing wrong with people pointing that out either. “Park” and wilderness have very different rules. Such as reserving sites, sharing sites, equipment use, management, mode of travel, etiquette approaching others, use of Bushcraft…etc…there has been an influx of people into the BWCAW treating it like a “park”… Perhaps words matter??? It’s possible?

I think we can all agree it really isn’t that big of a deal. I doubt anyone is mad about it either way…bobbernumber3’s post made me LOL as an example.
I think both sides just come off on the internet/written word as more upset or condescending than it really is meant. I was just trying to be funny at the start so hopefully no hard feelings.

T

timatkn: "…bobbernumber3’s post made me LOL
"

Good... but it's really not a park. But Quetico is. Go figure.

Thank you for the responses I hope I Didn’t kick the proverbial hornets nest by calling it a park.

Curious: "Thank you for the responses I hope I Didn’t kick the proverbial hornets nest by calling it a park."

You didn't kick a hornet's nest. These days, no one can express an opinion or or comment anywhere without someone taking offense. Of course, they have a right to their opinion, but to take offense and throat punch is now commonplace. So...Don't worry about it at all. This is a great message board. Feel free to join and enjoy.

Terry

If you are going to get all technical about a word, it’s really not a wilderness area, if you want to be real about it. The first definition by Merriam-Webster is…
- A tract or region uncultivated or uninhabited by human beings.
2nd - An area undisturbed by human activity together with its natural life community.
3rd - An empty or pathless area or region.

Just sayin. It’s a nice thought, but none of the above actually can be said of the BDub. There are plenty of people around to share or avoid the experience with or from. It’s a great place to canoe, camp and fish, but calling it a wilderness area might be a stretch.

timatkn: "

scottiebaldwin: "Okay, I'm going to humbly weigh-in here...


The BWCAW is a "park." It's also the "BWCA," the "B'Dub," and whatever anyone else wants to call it. Stop gatekeeping what people want to call it. That's just a trite assertion of dominance and an attempt at being hierarchically dictatorial. Yuk. I've never heard anyone say, "I'm going up into the Wilderness next week" and mean the BWCA.


Okay, now my rant is over, sorry. I have respect for all members here.


"You may fire when ready." -Grand Moff Tarkin"

“ Stop gatekeeping what people want to call it. That's just a trite assertion of dominance and an attempt at being hierarchically dictatorial.”
That seems a little over the top…I am sorry this is so triggering to you, causing you to use micro-aggression against people trying to use the proper noun. (I am trying to be funny so don’t come up on stage and slap me)


I feel like you extrapolated one comment into multiple. No one on here said BWCA, B dub, or other names were wrong—None of those are “park” BTW. Heck it’s ‘Merica…you can call it what you want…Just like people can say technically it’s not a Park :) Heck when I was a rookie I said Park too…but when I said that my outfitter corrected me, explained the differences and the rules I needed to follow. I can still call it that, won’t change anything for me now so in the scheme of things not a HUGE deal…it’s just technically wrong—nothing wrong with people pointing that out either. “Park” and wilderness have very different rules. Such as reserving sites, sharing sites, equipment use, management, mode of travel, etiquette approaching others, use of Bushcraft…etc…there has been an influx of people into the BWCAW treating it like a “park”… Perhaps words matter??? It’s possible?


I think we can all agree it really isn’t that big of a deal. I doubt anyone is mad about it either way…bobbernumber3’s post made me LOL as an example.
I think both sides just come off on the internet/written word as more upset or condescending than it really is meant. I was just trying to be funny at the start so hopefully no hard feelings.


T



"

I'm mad. I'll be waiting outside for you. High noon. And I won't be alone, as Frank Miller will be with me, so I suggest you bring Grace Kelly.

scat: "If you are going to get all technical about a word, it’s really not a wilderness area, if you want to be real about it. The first definition by Merriam-Webster is…
- A tract or region uncultivated or uninhabited by human beings.
2nd - An area undisturbed by human activity together with its natural life community.
3rd - An empty or pathless area or region.

Just sayin. It’s a nice thought, but none of the above actually can be said of the BDub. There are plenty of people around to share or avoid the experience with or from. It’s a great place to canoe, camp and fish, but calling it a wilderness area might be a stretch."

There is a difference between the Webster definition of wilderness and the government's classification of a wilderness area. I get your point, but the reason for the distinction is for the rules that apply. Those rules being followed or not then leads people back to pointing out that difference. I think this is where the "not a park" mentality comes from. People don't want others treating the BWCA as a park and disregarding the rules.

bobbernumber3: "

timatkn: "…bobbernumber3’s post made me LOL
"

Good... but it's really not a park. But Quetico is. Go figure."

When you are there The Q seems more like a Wilderness than the BWCAW. I'll give ya that. It certainly isn't managed like US Park--thank goodness. Part of the difference is different countries categorize land use differently. Quetico is designated a Wilderness Park. So the differences in practice are minor and more semantic than a National Park and a Wilderness in the US.

So essentially it's the difference in mechanization allowed in the Q interior (more: float planes, motors, chainsaws, gas by indigenous people and authorities), length of stay allowed, fee structure, and commercial use allowed (you can argue on this one since the current commercialization is under ancestral rights--but all of the Canadian Wilderness parks allow some commercialization as far as I know) vs. the BWCAW.

Sooo, can I still call it a dog park or is it now a canine recreation area?

nooneuno: "Sooo, can I still call it a dog park or is it now a canine recreation area?"

It's only a Dog "park" if you have to wait in line an hour to get in, fully accessible, and there is a Ranger making sure you are okay all the time...otherwise it's a dog "wilderness" enter at your own risk...

Park - wilderness area whatever. Kinda ridic to argue over what it’s called. The original post was how crowded is it compared to other national parks. Getting back to that, I would say it is not overly crowded that you can’t enjoy a great experience in the the Northwoods of Minnesota and find some solitude. I didn’t go last year so I can’t comment on the craziness that was reported, but in all the 25 or so trips before that, I always thought it was not that crowded that it bugged me. If you get in 3-4 lakes in you can have one to yourself for days. You are going to run into other people on portages, but I always enjoyed chatting a bit if they are friendly, some won’t even look at you, but hey that’s their thing, respect that and move on. If you put in a little work you can get away from the crowds. Most of the newbies are prob not into portaging very far in to get away from it all. Do that and I’ll bet you won’t be disappointed. A trip to the BWCA is always a lot of fun.
Cheers, scat

Yeah, in my opinion there's no comparison between the two. On a Boundary Waters trip you might see 25 people for the whole time you're out there (if you're unlucky). You can see that many people just in line for the bathroom at a national park these days.

scat: "Park - wilderness area whatever. Kinda ridic to argue over what it’s called. The original post was how crowded is it compared to other national parks. Getting back to that, I would say it is not overly crowded that you can’t enjoy a great experience in the the Northwoods of Minnesota and find some solitude. I didn’t go last year so I can’t comment on the craziness that was reported, but in all the 25 or so trips before that, I always thought it was not that crowded that it bugged me. If you get in 3-4 lakes in you can have one to yourself for days. You are going to run into other people on portages, but I always enjoyed chatting a bit if they are friendly, some won’t even look at you, but hey that’s their thing, respect that and move on. If you put in a little work you can get away from the crowds. Most of the newbies are prob not into portaging very far in to get away from it all. Do that and I’ll bet you won’t be disappointed. A trip to the BWCA is always a lot of fun.
Cheers, scat"

I’m sorry Curious that you were caught between the crossfire. Passionate folks around here!

Scat has said it best. A little work pays off. Seek and you will find.

JW

Compare it more to the mountain hiking trails out west that are not in the national parks. Voyagers national park is more like the parks.

Not sure I’m comfortable being the voice of reason, but the one thing I will stand by is the last thing I said, a trip to the BWCA is always a lot of fun. From the planning, the anticipation, the trip itself, to that last portage out, it’s a blast, especially if you share it with friends. Sometimes the favorite memories are those of the most challenging moments, like being knee deep in mud, or a tough portage, or two days of rain stuck under a tarp just bsing and playing cards, etc. could be anything that occurs unexpectedly. Then as it always happens you are rewarded with moments of total bliss, totally content in your little slice of heaven away from the realities of every day life. Put in a little more effort than the everyday wannabe and you will get where you want to be and not regret a minute for doing so. If you’re curious Curious, be no more, just go for it. Hope you have fun.
As always, Cheers, scat

timatkn: "I think both sides just come off on the internet/written word as more upset or condescending than it really is meant."

Without inflection, facial expression, etc. this is all to true.
Curious, with that in mind feel free to ask any questions about planning a trip in the BWCA. There are so many kind, knowledgeable people on this board that are more than willing to share their collective wisdom. I have learned so much about campsite selection, tarpology, fishing, clothing, etc. from the members on this forum.
P.S. As an example LindenTree has given me first hand info on the campsites I was planning on taking a group of kids to. Really important to know a site will be big enough for your group.

I have been travelling to the BWCA, since 1957. Too many times to count. It is certainly not the same as it was back then. Never considered it a park, especially, like the one in my hometown, with a merry-go-round and band shell. The Superior National Forest is trending that way, with a zip line and other entertainment features. I suspect someday there will be a MacDonalds on the Gunflint Trail. I see some putting in their two cents, that have never even been to the BWCA.

Potato, potaato, tomato, tomaato...

The place get real crowded from mid June to end-of-August.

scat: "If you are going to get all technical about a word, it’s really not a wilderness area, if you want to be real about it. The first definition by Merriam-Webster is…
- A tract or region uncultivated or uninhabited by human beings.
2nd - An area undisturbed by human activity together with its natural life community.
3rd - An empty or pathless area or region.


Just sayin. It’s a nice thought, but none of the above actually can be said of the BDub. There are plenty of people around to share or avoid the experience with or from. It’s a great place to canoe, camp and fish, but calling it a wilderness area might be a stretch."

Native Americans had no name for wilderness. It was just "home".

Definition #2 above reflects that there is no wilderness left on Earth, as everything has been impacted by Man.

If you grew up in New York City, it's a wilderness! If you grew up in the Bohemian Alps in Iowa, its more wild and remote then the farm but not over whelming. But it beats the heck out of the National Parks and State parks I've been to. But it's not as remote and is more crowded then parts of Northern Canada, Alaska, and Antarctica.
By the way, you can find solitude in National Parks but it takes a little effort and you have to hike the less popular trails.

arctic: "

scat: "If you are going to get all technical about a word, it’s really not a wilderness area, if you want to be real about it. The first definition by Merriam-Webster is…
- A tract or region uncultivated or uninhabited by human beings.
2nd - An area undisturbed by human activity together with its natural life community.
3rd - An empty or pathless area or region.



Just sayin. It’s a nice thought, but none of the above actually can be said of the BDub. There are plenty of people around to share or avoid the experience with or from. It’s a great place to canoe, camp and fish, but calling it a wilderness area might be a stretch."

Native Americans had no name for wilderness. It was just "home".


Definition #2 above reflects that there is no wilderness left on Earth, as everything has been impacted by Man."

Arctic, I miss you!