If there were a Shackle-O-Meter, a device that measured your appetite for wilderness and your tolerance for danger and pain*, where would you rate and why?

Ernest Shackleton, the captain of the Endurance, is a 10.

Every person who ever said, "I consider it roughing it when they don't have room service," is a 0. Kardashians, of course, are record-setting, off-the-meter -1 to -5.

I'm a 7. I tolerate being wet. I actually enjoy sleeping in a tent. Basic eating is no biggie. I've spent months on solo trips and up-to-five weeks beyond the ends of roads by myself in northwestern Ontario.

However, I've interviewed enough hard-core adventurers, like BeaV, Yuri Klaver, and Jon Turk, to know I rate no higher. Cold can crumple me. Polar bears and brown bears terrify me. I'm simply not sturdy enough to survive a solo expedition.

What's your rating and why?


*Regarding tolerance of pain, I think there's a lot of overlap between people like BeaV and professional athletes. One professional cyclist I interviewed said, "The one who tolerates the most pain wins." BeaVing (Yes, it's a verb! Check Webster's if you don't believe me.) requires bearing a burden of pain.

Here's what a 9.5-rating looks like.

Cool thread, missmolly. I'd give myself a 7, too. I lack some necessary skills and brain power to survive a serious solo expedition. I do believe, with the proper gear, that I can more than hang on a tough group expedition of some sort. I'm 29 with a strong and well-conditioned body, a burning love and passion for all-things-outdoors, and an approachable and open-minded personality. Being young is often associated with terms like inexperienced, naive, unseasoned, etc. While I'm not arguing that I'm wiser or more experienced and composed than others, I do believe I have a calm demeanor and am someone who(m?) many people would get along with.

DRob, I'm pretty if you were hooked up to a Shackle-O-Meter, you'd score an 8. Here's why:

1. Youth. I have a family member who's a great, albeit old, racquetball player. Ohio State University's team schedules matches against him because he's so wily and competitive and the young men can learn from his many tricks. He told me he'll hit a "sure kill shot" and even relax because no player could reach it and then these young men do and they don't exhaust themselves in doing it, but can do it again and again. Youth has stunning recovery times, which you need when the wilds are pummeling you.

2. You're calm. Being calm means you can keep your cool in stressful situations, which means your brain stays connected to your body. That's a big deal.

3. Passion. It's to adventuring what nitrous oxide is to Mad Max's GT Falcon,

When I was 25 I slept comfortably on a granite outcrop on Tin Can Mike and woke up none the worse for wear. If I did that now at 58 I might need to be airlifted out. I fear black flies more than bears , I’ve never used a cooking stove ever in canoe country only wood fire cooking. So I’m not sure what my rating would be now because if I don’t have a comfortable pad to sleep on , and a head net when the black flies descend, then it’s not happening . My only solo trip these days are day trips into Brook Trout lakes, I have no interest solo overnight camping in the Bwca anymore, it used to be a cool test but now it’s just lonely . I prefer the shoulder seasons by far to summer. You can have that 90 degree and humid crap,I will pass . So after reading my post ,I might be a Kardashian at this point .

No clue what I'am. Imo- this is something that others should rate an individual on. But I don't mean to hijack the thread--- I give high marks to those that have soloed the Kruger Challenge and other long distance endurance / mental challenges like the Arrowhead 135.

While were on it- a song that came to mind on this topic - and no I'am not
the "King of Pain" -- just something that came to mind.

Any missmolly thread deserves a response so I thought about this for a bit. Hard to compare the mental toughness of a person who needs the most modern equipment to 'survive' a week in the BW to Sir Ernest’s guys with wool and cotton clothing enduring months on Elephant Island not knowing if a ship will ever return to rescue them, or a Ukrainian taking on Russian tanks with a rifle, or a guy who got drafted and went to Viet Nam and spent weeks in the bush seeing his buddies get killed, or a WW11 pilot who survived years of brutality in a Japanese prison camp, or a dedicated nurse in ICU working day after day to help people under the most dire circumstances or…. It is much easier to be mentally tough when you know there is a an endgame, keep pushing and it will be over eventually, not knowing that makes it much much harder. Needing to toot your own horn is a sign of weakness in itself, those most humble are the greatest heroes of all.
Cheers, scat

scat: "Any missmolly thread deserves a response so I thought about this for a bit. Hard to compare the mental toughness of a person who needs the most modern equipment to survive a week in the BW to Sir Ernest’s guys with wool and cotton clothing enduring months on Elephant Island not knowing if a ship will ever return to rescue them, or a Ukrainian taking on Russian tanks with a rifle, or a guy who got drafted and went to Viet Nam and spent weeks in the bush seeing his buddies get killed, or a WW11 pilot who survived years of brutality in a Japanese prison camp, or a dedicated nurse in ICU working day after day to help people under the most dire circumstances or…. It is much easier to be mentally tough when you know there is a an endgame, keep pushing and it will be over eventually, not knowing that makes it much much harder. Needing to toot your own horn is a sign of weakness in itself, those most humble are the greatest heroes of all.
Cheers, scat"

Well said.

Scat, I'm not calling anyone to toot their horns, but to balance what they will endure and what they won't. As an example, I shared what crumples me (cold), what terrifies me (grizzlies and polar bears), and how I lack the fundamental, requisite sturdiness, both mental and physical, to accompany BeaV or any of his peers. BassPro (tenting) nd DRob (lack of experience and gear) also shared their limitations. and BassPro did it with good humor too.

I also shared how I've interviewed some 9.5 paddlers and they ALL shared moments when they felt small for the challenge. i simply didn't share those moments because I'm not entitled. However, I admire when someone with adventuring bona fides admits when they lost their mojo for a moment.

As far as the other brave folks you listed, I've interviewed some of them and they too admit when they were overwhelmed. As many have noted, courage isn't the absence of fear, but pushing through fear.

A question I've asked in hundreds of interviews is this: "Tell me about a moment where you were overwhelmed and what you did to push through that uncertainty and fear."

So many of my interviewees, from generals to doctors, have opened their answer to my question like this: "Ah, there have been so many moments when I was overwhelmed. It's hard to pick just one."

I don't think any modern paddler is a 10. As you noted, Scat, Shackleton bore the burden of leadership with crappy gear. Shackleton's glory isn't that he survived, but that they ALL survived through his leadership. And he did with a hole in his heart, as he had a congenital birth defect, but there are nearly none who ever had a stronger heart than Shackleton. He likely paid for the burden he bore, for he drank heavily in his forties and died at 47.

We utterly agree on humility, Scat. Humility has a higher shine than any medal.

Dear Missmolly, your brain works in mysterious ways! I love your posts!
I watch the TV shows like Alone and Naked and Afraid and think "I could do that" then it's time for my afternoon nap. I think I would be about a 3.5 on the S.O.M. I hate bugs, all kinds. I hope I would show well if put in the situations mentioned by Scat but I won't be seeking out them out.

I don't know what my rating is, but I do know that I can't hold a candle to a lot of people I've either canoe-tripped or climbed with. Per the latter, there is no one I've seen more capable of handling more hardship with less means than the Eastern Europeans I met in the mountains way back when. I once spent 2 months climbing an 8000m peak (I only got about half of the way up) in Pakistan's Karakoram back in the mid-90s. There were Slovenian and Polish teams on the mountain too then, and their gear was this third-hand stuff that weighed twice as much as ours, and with the old leather boots that turned into ankle weights if they got wet and then froze. You get the picture, and of course they just blazed past us anyways, smoking their cigarettes and laughing their way up the mountain and down before we even had a high camp established. It occurred to me then it was not just about having a good mental attitude, which we all know is essential for handling tough portages and rain or wind. But it's about context too--these guys had all grown up beyond the Iron Curtain, and for them a Karakoram climb must have been a dream-like event, something unimaginable just a few years before when the curtain was still up. How could they not be happy, their Shackleton era gear notwithstanding? I try to think of that on tough days in the BWCA, or in Quetico this coming summer.

11?

plander: " 11? "

I was waiting for this. :-)

mm - to clarify my post, I wasn’t taking about you, it was a poor choice of a word to say ‘tooting your own horn’, I should have said, tooting one’s own horn. My main point was it is much easier to be mentally tough when you know whatever you are enduring has an end point, instead of not knowing if it will ever be over. Be it a long hard portage, wind sprints at the end of football practice or to a much more extreme level the final days of making the grade as a Navy Seal or Green Beret. Keep going and you will make it thru. Hey man, I beat cancer with a smile on my face the whole time so I know I’m a bad*$$ haha. Erwalleye, like your post, that was cool.

Gotta love a Missmolly post...brings out the thinking.
Experience is big. We had outdoor toilets until I was 7. Sitting on the throne with a cold north wind blowing up behind you made the wilderness bivy a true throne.
Experience also teaches limits and survival is about wisdom more than guts and glory.
At 75 I have endured enough to know if the stakes were high I will pull a 7, but for life in general I'm a 4-5. Not that long ago I was planning solos in Grizzley country. Now firing a weapon I might need would likely dislocate a shoulder. Cold and arthritis are good friends and I like neither. Endurance is gone. Much past 3-4 hours strenuous exercise pain and neuropathy will limit what I can do. I cut short a trip after pulling a muscle putting on my pack.
I still go into the wilderness but respect my limits.

Thanks for the extra point, missmolly :). I definitely agree with you guys - humility is a very attractive trait. I think it's okay at times (like with this thread) to assess yourself honestly. No shame with having a little fun! Let's see those ratings!

BeaV is definitely a 10.... Miss Molly is not to far behind. I’ve been inspired by people here on this forum to do things. But my accomplishments... eh... I feel now I’m maybe a 1... some days a 2. Haha. Getting old tends to reduce your shackle meter number unless your magic paddler... now there is a 9 or ten. The people I’ve met here are the best. Very inspiring... now that health caught up to me I enjoy hearing all the stories of current trips and such. Lots of great people out there that truly are the 8, 9, and 10’s...

I think, during my earlier canoe-tripping days I was probably somewhere around a 5. Pretty good at enduring some hardships, not afraid of too much (except paddling in very high waves/wind), sometimes complaining about my pain but nevertheless working through it and not giving up. Adapting well to challenges. We didn't often push to exhaustion, but when we did on an occasion, I kept up my end of the bargain.

At the very end of my tripping days, when mobility became more limited and my concerns about my husband's health became more of a factor, I was becoming more timid and I was actually the one who pulled the plug on the wilderness canoe tripping experience. But I had braver times to remember.

eagleriverwalleye, I love your story. I'd love to turn it into an article, but I think it's got too much dust on it to sell it to a magazine. Dang it! It deserves an audience.

Linda, I think you're at least a 5. Any trip into the BWCA or Quetico requires one to be profoundly unkardashian.

Thank you for what you wrote, merlyn and bhouse46. I try to explore the rivers of ideas less paddled.

I think of the SOM like the Richter Scale, where every step up takes ten times the strength of the previous level. So, a 7 is not nearly an 8. An 8 takes ten times the pluck.

Exactly, that’s why us Americans with all our gadgets and fancy gear should never be rated higher than a 3 if that. Taking an occasional sojourn into a wild place for kicks is almost a luxury. Some people might be mentally tougher than others naturally, but I’m thinking it is mostly a product of real struggle. And most of us haven’t been there. Taking a trip in a $3000 Kevlar canoe with a $110 rain jacket in tow etc knowing you have a roof over your head and a warm bed waiting for you isn’t my idea of struggle. Getting to a number 8 on the meter takes a lot more than that in my opinion. And of course that’s only my opinion, everyone is welcome to their own, it’s a free country last I heard.

Miss Molly, you are a talented interviewer. You ask questions that draw great responses. You also us to reflect on interesting questions whether we post or not. Good stuff.

I’m maybe a 4 sliding toward 3 with age. Or am I an 8? We know about our own experience, skills, strengths and fears. Still, what we can or will actually do largely remains a mystery until we face (fill in crisis here). There are people like my search and rescue friends who seem hardwired for a high number. They live as natural 7s and 8s. There are others who live a 3 or 4 life but become their 10 self through an extraordinary event and response to it that no person, themselves included, could have imagined. Maybe this is a reason we have been attuned to hero/superhero stories for as long as we've had stories.

If interested, another amazing “10” story is the saga of Norwegian WWII hero Jan Baalsrud. There are multiple books about him. We Die Alone by David Horwath and The 12th Man by Astrid Karlsen Scott and Tore Haug are really good. There are similarities between him and Shackleton but Shack must lead others and Baalsrud must go alone. Also, an exceptional book about why some people can and some can’t be the high number needed when it’s really needed is Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies and Why by Laurence Gonzales. If nothing else, it plausibly explains why so many little kids fare better than capable adults when lost in cold woods for a few nights. It’s a worthy read for us 1s and 10s alike.

KawnipiKid: "Miss Molly, you are a talented interviewer. You ask questions that draw great responses. You also us to reflect on interesting questions whether we post or not. Good stuff.


I’m maybe a 4 sliding toward 3 with age. Or am I an 8? We know about our own experience, skills, strengths and fears. Still, what we can or will actually do largely remains a mystery until we face (fill in crisis here). There are people like my search and rescue friends who seem hardwired for a high number. They live as natural 7s and 8s. There are others who live a 3 or 4 life but become their 10 self through an extraordinary event and response to it that no person, themselves included, could have imagined. Maybe this is a reason we have been attuned to hero/superhero stories for as long as we've had stories.


If interested, another amazing “10” story is the saga of Norwegian WWII hero Jan Baalsrud. There are multiple books about him. We Die Alone by David Horwath and The 12th Man by Astrid Karlsen Scott and Tore Haug are really good. There are similarities between him and Shackleton but Shack must lead others and Baalsrud must go alone. Also, an exceptional book about why some people can and some can’t be the high number needed when it’s really needed is Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies and Why by Laurence Gonzales. If nothing else, it plausibly explains why so many little kids fare better than capable adults when lost in cold woods for a few nights. It’s a worthy read for us 1s and 10s alike.
"

I have read some the books on Jan Baalsrud. The dude was simply insanely physically - but more importantly- mentally tough. One of the greatest "willing" to live events I have ever heard off.
A brief
glimpse of Jan Baalsrud-- the books are much better.

scat,

Don't always assume everyone has a warm bed and a roof over their head waiting for them.

-D Rob

KawnipiKid: "Miss Molly, you are a talented interviewer. You ask questions that draw great responses. You also us to reflect on interesting questions whether we post or not. Good stuff.


I’m maybe a 4 sliding toward 3 with age. Or am I an 8? We know about our own experience, skills, strengths and fears. Still, what we can or will actually do largely remains a mystery until we face (fill in crisis here). There are people like my search and rescue friends who seem hardwired for a high number. They live as natural 7s and 8s. There are others who live a 3 or 4 life but become their 10 self through an extraordinary event and response to it that no person, themselves included, could have imagined. Maybe this is a reason we have been attuned to hero/superhero stories for as long as we've had stories.


If interested, another amazing “10” story is the saga of Norwegian WWII hero Jan Baalsrud. There are multiple books about him. We Die Alone by David Horwath and The 12th Man by Astrid Karlsen Scott and Tore Haug are really good. There are similarities between him and Shackleton but Shack must lead others and Baalsrud must go alone. Also, an exceptional book about why some people can and some can’t be the high number needed when it’s really needed is Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies and Why by Laurence Gonzales. If nothing else, it plausibly explains why so many little kids fare better than capable adults when lost in cold woods for a few nights. It’s a worthy read for us 1s and 10s alike.
"

KawnipiKid, speaking of the uncertainty of how much pluck a person can summon and books about the pluckiest of us, in Stephen Ambrose's outstanding "Citizen Soldier," he noted the disconnect between swagger and battlefield courage, how those soldiers who bragged in boot camp about their upcoming courage were more likely to keep their heads down and let others risk their skin while the quiet ones in boot camp were more likely to climb out of the relative safety of the foxhole to advance the line...and often die.

There is so much truth in your second paragraph. No one can say how they'll fare until tested. I was caught by wind on open water on Lake Winnibigoshish in late September and I literally quit and more than once. I paddled and battled, trying to reach the shore, but couldn't, exhausting myself in my failed attempts. Then I'd simply clutch my paddle, quitting, and let the waves hit me. I'd get water-smacked a dozen times, get pissed, start cussing, and try again.

Thanks for the book suggestions. I'm ordering a couple today.

My first winter camping in the bwca, late 1970s, one week with temperatures -40F. We didn’t have tents, just tarps. My sleeping bag was a target brand duck down bag that probably cost $30. The pain was a ten. We didn’t give it a thought. Complaining was not tolerated. It was a ymca camp led trip, we had a girl along who was an exchange student from Sweden. We were all in love with her. She was Jessie diggens with a Swedish accent. A small thing like that ( not a small thing to a bunch of midwestern teenage boys) act like veteran arctic explorers.

Growing up outside of St. Paul our parents would send us outside to play. The temperature didn’t matter. Our clothes were totally not equal to the conditions. Being frozen cold was our normal. Today it would be bordering on child abuse. I still can feel the pain as you held your hands in lukewarm water waiting for the burning feeling to stop.

I think a question like this is really dependent on your every day living conditions. People that live at a 2 or less are far more likely to enjoy an 8 or higher. The need for adventure and increased pain tolerance often comes from being in a stable and safe situation at home. You don't often see someone living paycheck to paycheck going on epic trips like BeaV.

If I had the money, time, and wasn't tied down with responsibilities to my wife and kids, then I too would love to go on epic trips. Maybe not kayaking for me personally, but hunting in Alaska or the Rockies would be something I would push through the pain for. It takes a lot of resources, and a support structure, to not only go on these trips, but to build up experience and your body to be able to handle it.

I think I'm at about a 6, maybe a 7, but the thing is that the "pain" doesn't end when the trip does.

First world problems, right?

It's all a matter of perspective. I consider myself a 5 and it's probably been a 5 my adult life. A lot of my friends think I'm a 9 or 10, so like I mentioned it's all a matter of perspective.
It was higher when I was growing up on the farm, maybe a 7. But I didn't know any difference so didn't think twice about stacking hay in a haymow in 100 degree weather. God knows what the temperature was in the mow, I'm guessing 120 degrees. Or driving a cabless tractor down the road in 0 degree weather with no face covering, then driving home covered with cow poop from spreading manure in the wind.
I just got done with an interesting book titled White Eskimo. He was a 10 for sure.

A1t2o: "I think a question like this is really dependent on your every day living conditions. People that live at a 2 or less are far more likely to enjoy an 8 or higher. The need for adventure and increased pain tolerance often comes from being in a stable and safe situation at home. You don't often see someone living paycheck to paycheck going on epic trips like BeaV.


If I had the money, time, and wasn't tied down with responsibilities to my wife and kids, then I too would love to go on epic trips. Maybe not kayaking for me personally, but hunting in Alaska or the Rockies would be something I would push through the pain for. It takes a lot of resources, and a support structure, to not only go on these trips, but to build up experience and your body to be able to handle it.


I think I'm at about a 6, maybe a 7, but the thing is that the "pain" doesn't end when the trip does.


First world problems, right?"

A1t2o,

Money definitely goes a long way for an individual to plan and execute an epic trip. No arguing that. I know of instances, though, where a person living paycheck-to-paycheck (and sometimes hurting worse than that) was able to partake in a challenging group adventure as a result of a devoted and generous support system of friends. Those types of trips are often a beautiful, albeit brief, escape from harsh reality for hard-up people.

Interesting question, I think context is key.

I often wonder where my will to live would not be sufficient for the struggles required in a true survival situation like Shackleton and crew endured. Hopefully I never find out.

In the context of a canoe trip, I would have to rate myself fairly high. I have never complained about anything I’ve encountered because being out there is my favorite thing and it’s all part of it. As a matter of fact some of the more difficult experiences become some of my favorite memories.

On the other hand if I’m at a social function where I don’t want to be I can be a total baby when it comes to discomfort and pain.

missmolly: "

There is so much truth in your second paragraph. No one can say how they'll fare until tested. I was caught by wind on open water on Lake Winnibigoshish in late September and I literally quit and more than once. I paddled and battled, trying to reach the shore, but couldn't, exhausting myself in my failed attempts. Then I'd simply clutch my paddle, quitting, and let the waves hit me. I'd get water-smacked a dozen times, get pissed, start cussing, and try again.

"

missmolly, Your Lake Winnibigoshish story gave me the wrong kind of chills. Yikes. Glad you got pissed enough to fight! Good tip on Citizen Soldiers. I loved Undaunted Courage and I’m looking forward to reading more Ambrose. He was a visiting prof at UW Madison back in the day when I worked there. I’d see him walking around and one day saw him walking campus with Bud Selig, owner of the Brewers, then Commissioner of Baseball and another history buff. Ambrose left the UW money to endow a chair in US Military History.

Of course a 5 when you're thirty is a 7 when you're 60!

Captn Tony: "Of course a 5 when you're thirty is a 7 when you're 60!"

Exactly! I think that is what I was trying to say! :-)

I was probably an 8 30 years ago, but feel like more of a 4 these days. I think if absolutely necessary I could pull the 8 guy out, but hope to never need him. I definitely have less strength and endurance, feel misery more acutely, and feel little need to see how much I can handle. I enjoy hearing about others exploits, but I prefer relative comfort.

jwartman59: "Growing up outside of St. Paul our parents would send us outside to play. The temperature didn’t matter. Our clothes were totally not equal to the conditions. Being frozen cold was our normal. Today it would be bordering on child abuse. I still can feel the pain as you held your hands in lukewarm water waiting for the burning feeling to stop."

Same here, but in Chicago.... but we were out by choice.
It was called Chilblains.... and I remember being brought to tears as hands or feet warmed up.
Mostly our own fault for playing hockey so long, and ignoring the fact that we could no longer feel our toes.

I went to bed at 2, was a 10
Got up at 10, was a 2

Oh wow. What a question! As a child, my allergies were so bad, I'd walk around with a box of tissues everywhere and figured I'd be destined to get sunburned any time I was outside in the summer (regardless of how much sunscreen I used). And you still couldn't have kept me inside with any amount of pleading.

I'd say I'd probably land in the middle.

There is not much I'm afraid of - flying, alligators. I'm consciously aware of dangers and when to proceed with caution, but I've never really been afraid of things.

My threshold for danger and pain however . . . it's a night and day difference when you factor in temperatures. I feel like I can do about anything when the temps are between -10 and 70. When it gets above 70, the amount of physical activity I can handle is greatly diminished. I'm still looking for ways to improve upon this (but that's where money will certainly benefit me and not be of assistance in a survival situation). And I require a lot of water when the temps get above 80. When the temps drop to double digits below zero, my lung becomes an issue and breathing just hurts. (Spontaneous hole in my lung when I was 21 - no known reason but scar tissue hurts.) I'm still happy to be outside.

I've paddled lakes in 15 mph winds (though I'd prefer not to). I spent plenty of camping trips in the rain or thunderstorms - no big deal. We hike all the time in rain or snow. I live in Wisconsin and can't wait for perfect weather to get outdoors. I'm a relatively picky eater, but I will bring the same meal camping for 5 days in a row and not complain. Now that they've invented the female urination device, I have no problem being in places that do not have a pit toilet. I do not have very much physical strength but I'm not completely helpless.

For reference, my first camping trip was for my 8 year old son's boy scout troop. We borrowed my sister's tent (my husband - now ex - refused to join us) and set up in the dark on top of pine cones. The next day we spent a good hour in the campground's bathroom while a tornado blew around a few miles away. My first boundary waters trip was in September - 40 and rain 4 of the 5 days. I cannot get enough.

Huh, I’m an 85-90 degree guy here. Anything over 40 is ok but much prefer shorts T-shirts and flip flops. We didn’t have sunscreen when I was a kid, my dad always said you get your first sunburn and the skin peeled off you like an onion and you were good to go for all summer. Got 2 scars on my cute baby face from skin cancer surgeries from that theory. Hey, chicks dig scars right. You think you’re tough, have your face gouged out by a Vietnamese doc with an attitude and with just local anesthetic and you can smell your burning flesh as he cauterizes your skin to stop the bleeding. And I had to do it twice cuz they didn’t get it all first go round. Sat in the waiting room for an hour while they analyzed whatever then had to go and do it all over again. I would rather have chemo or a root canal a hundred times than do that again. 2nd time they put me under, perfect, wake up with a zipper on your face but no agony for hours on end. Just sayin. I earned an 8 for that first one cuz I never complained tho I was getting barked at the whole time by that doc who kept saying to relax, I was causing too much bleeding, I think he just liked hurting me. Nothing like the smell of charred flesh, never forget that.
Cheers, scat

scat: "Huh, I’m an 85-90 degree guy here. Anything over 40 is ok but much prefer shorts T-shirts and flip flops. We didn’t have sunscreen when I was a kid, my dad always said you get your first sunburn and the skin peeled off you like an onion and you were good to go for all summer. Got 2 scars on my cute baby face from skin cancer surgeries from that theory. Hey, chicks dig scars right. You think you’re tough, have your face gouged out by a Vietnamese doc with an attitude and with just local anesthetic and you can smell your burning flesh as he cauterizes your skin to stop the bleeding. And I had to do it twice cuz they didn’t get it all first go round. Sat in the waiting room for an hour while they analyzed whatever then had to go and do it all over again. I would rather have chemo or a root canal a hundred times than do that again. 2nd time they put me under, perfect, wake up with a zipper on your face but no agony for hours on end. Just sayin. I earned an 8 for that first one cuz I never complained tho I was getting barked at the whole time by that doc who kept saying to relax, I was causing too much bleeding, I think he just liked hurting me. Nothing like the smell of charred flesh, never forget that.
Cheers, scat"

Ouch! I'll definitely give you an extra point on your rating for that experience, scat.