If I were more creative, I would take the stats for 2021 and put them in a youtube video with everyone's names and pictures on them and their stories. Real people died because they were not wearing their life jackets. Real stories of people who didn't think they needed a PFD. Please wear your life jackets.

A lot of the non-boating drownings were kids under the age of 5. Swimming lessons are so important.


Read the stats and stories for yourself.

** 2 were wearing their life jackets in boating accidents. Their injuries were too severe to save them**

Good reminder for all of us, thanks. That last line tells it all- Life jacket worn, NO.

Savage Voyageur: "Good reminder for all of us, thanks. That last line tells it all- Life jacket worn, NO. "

Sobering stories. Thank you for the timely reminder.

Thanks for sharing.

Lifejackets are a non-negotiable in my group...

IowaGuy: "Thanks for sharing.

Lifejackets are a non-negotiable in my group..."

+1

Frenchy19: "

IowaGuy: "Thanks for sharing.

Lifejackets are a non-negotiable in my group..."

+1"

+2

We all need to realize how crucial it is to wear our PFD. No logical reason not to.

I used to hate wearing the lifejackets given out by outfitters. They were bulky, got in the way, and hot. Once I bought one that fit me, it feels strange to not be wearing a PFD all the times while in the canoe.

That's my one suggestion to anyone who still thinks not wearing a PFD is ok. Get one that fits.

PeaceFrog: "We all need to realize how crucial it is to wear our PFD. No logical reason not to."

We also remind each other to “zip up” after a portage or layer change. If it’s not properly secured to your body, you’re not protected.

What a good reminder, especially with the late ice out that is going to result in even colder water as people start to enter the BWCA. After I started whitewater kayaking, I feel "naked" without a PFD when in any boat.

Would never get in a canoe or any type of watercraft without one. At my age would probably even wear one swimming now too after reading this. Thanks for posting.

In regards to PFDs, I think the culture has shifted a lot in the last 15-20 years. I remember when I was a kid, none of the adult men wore life jackets. When asked why, adults would say, “They’re too hot”, or “it’s not comfortable” or “I’ll just grab it quick if I need it”, or my personal favorite, “I’m a great swimmer”.

In all reality, I think a lot of the reasons many men don’t wear PFD’s is some ridiculous sense of machismo. Some weird perception that wearing a PFD makes you a boating/canoeing beginner and less skilled (which is insane because it’s usually the most skilled/experienced paddlers that are religious about wearing a PFD).

What a load of crap. What it does is make you look stupid. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but that is the honest truth, it’s no different then someone refusing to wear a seatbelt. Don’t get me wrong, it’s your choice, I’m not telling everyone to go wear your PFD. I just can’t wrap my head around why anyone would refuse.

Nowadays, PFDs are light, breath really well and are so comfortable that I often forget that I’m wearing mine. It takes about as much effort to put one on as it does to buckle a seat belt. There’s really no reason not to wear it anytime you’re on the water.

I think now we’ve reached a point where many more people understand just how easy it is to get into trouble and how important wearing your PFD is. I feel like that machismo is fading and we’re all going to benefit from it. Sadly, it takes tragedy for many people to realize how much of a difference it can make.

My son (11 years old) recently asked me why I require him to wear his PFD any time we’re near water, so I grabbed the BWJ issue with “mcsweem’s” tragic story and simply said, “read this and then decide if you want to ask me again”.

Sorry for jumping on the soapbox, but I feel very strongly on this one.

Tony

If you want to see mass amounts of people not wearing their life jackets then go float the Saint Croix. It is crazy how many 100s of people do not wear them. I see a few of them are on this list I posted as well.

My dad said growing up they didn't have lifejackets. They would tie a rope around the kid's waist to the parent. But he also told me the way he learn to swim is his dad threw him in the river and said figure it out. Times were different back then.

Too many popular You Tubers featuring canoe camping videos are contributing to the problem of not wearing your PFD. First time camping? Watch some videos and become an expert.

You're not part of our crew if you don't wear your life jacket all the time when in the canoe. We make sure that they are comfortable and they stay on all the time while single portaging, paddling and fishing.
I'm amazed at how many great BW magazines include pictures of people canoeing without life jackets on. If you want to promote safety every picture should be teaching the right way to do a particular activity.

Thanks for the reminder.

T

papalambeau: " You're not part of our crew if you don't wear your life jacket all the time when in the canoe. We make sure that they are comfortable and they stay on all the time while single portaging, paddling and fishing.
I'm amazed at how many great BW magazines include pictures of people canoeing without life jackets on. If you want to promote safety every picture should be teaching the right way to do a particular activity."

I once did a Bible study with the picture on the cover had a kid in a canoe with no life jacket on and I wrote the company with a complaint in an email about it. They sent an apology and said they would fix it in the next revision. So maybe you should write to them magazines and complain?

Pump the breaks on the lifejacket shaming guys. You're all more likely to die of heart disease than drowning - even without a lifejacket on. I'm not going to judge you everytime you eat a cheeseburger.
It's definitely smart and good practice to wear lifejackets. They do save lives, but no need to shame those who don't.

jwettelrin89: "Pump the breaks on the lifejacket shaming guys. You're all more likely to die of heart disease than drowning - even without a lifejacket on. I'm not going to judge you everytime you eat a cheeseburger.
It's definitely smart and good practice to wear lifejackets. They do save lives, but no need to shame those who don't. "

Might want to know the audience you are talking to first …some people on this site have lost loved ones due to not wearing a PFD. Not sure I buy the cheeseburger analogy. Eating one cheeseburger can kill you? I am pretty sure it is a lifetime of poor choices (diet, exercise, alcohol, +genetics) that lead to heart disease, while not wearing a life jacket one time can be fatal. I did not see this as “shaming” more of reminding…perhaps pleading at worst?

The key to the OP was that most of these deaths were preventable by a one time simple choice.

Before you think I am shaming…I don’t always make the right choice either, but I appreciate the effort of others.

T

merlyn: " Too many popular You Tubers featuring canoe camping videos are contributing to the problem of not wearing your PFD. First time camping? Watch some videos and become an expert."

Also noted. Some of the crap I see with fish handling, no PFD, paddling as close as possible to the moose swimming as fast as she can to get to shore. Ack.

And it's far more likely someone knows someone who died of heart disease or the side effects of obesity. Whats your point?

You weren't too agressive but some folks here are flat out calling people stupid for not wearing lifejackets and saying you can't ride with them unless you wear one. I was just trying to provide a little perspective. I admit lifejackets save lives, but that doesn't mean we need to shame people who don't. A lot of people make poor choices every day that could ultimately kill them. If we're going to judge people for taking risks that are so miniscule we're going to spend our whole lived upset with everyone and their faults. Why not just do your thing and let others do theirs?

Folks can canoe with me with or without a lifejacket. Its their choice.

jwettelrin89: "Pump the breaks on the lifejacket shaming guys. You're all more likely to die of heart disease than drowning - even without a lifejacket on. I'm not going to judge you everytime you eat a cheeseburger.
It's definitely smart and good practice to wear lifejackets. They do save lives, but no need to shame those who don't. "

Interesting 1st post... welcome to the board!

Mr. 89 wrote: "If we're going to judge people for taking risks that are so miniscule we're going to spend our whole lived upset with everyone and their faults. Why not just do your thing and let others do theirs?"

That's persuasive. What's less persuasive is using "shame" as if it were a bad thing. Decades ago, I read an essay in The Atlantic about how shame gets a bad rap, about how shame might be the most effective motivator and a powerful agent for positive change.

Protecting everyone from shame strikes me as similar to giving everyone a trophy. There are shameful acts and they should be defined as such.

Caring more about a sliver of your comfort ("I don't want to wear a life jacket because it's uncomfy!") instead of your parents', siblings', and friends' grief when they view you pumped full of embalming fluid in your coffin and when you're no longer there for your spouse and children, that utter lack of foresight is shameful. Not perhaps shameful or maybe shameful, but shameful. There are no take-backs or do-overs once you're in the satin-lined box.

Mr. 89 also made a salient point about the ubiquity of cheeseburgers and disease, but shame isn't a one and done. There's plenty of deserved shame to apply to others and ourselves to propel change.

Float Stanley says "wear your lifevest". :)

I trip with between 4-8 guys on our fishing trips up there. At the planning meeting beforehand it is made clear by our trip leader that we will have our PFDs on when on the water. So this way, months beforehand everyone knows that you will be expected to wear one. The person can then choose to wear one or not go. No shaming, no put downs, just our leaders expectations of us.

I mean there's no real downside to lifejackets these days. They make them in all shapes and sizes. I personally always wear it because it doubles as pockets for extra bits of gear.

missmolly: "Mr. 89 wrote: "If we're going to judge people for taking risks that are so miniscule we're going to spend our whole lived upset with everyone and their faults. Why not just do your thing and let others do theirs?"


That's persuasive. What's less persuasive is using "shame" as if it were a bad thing. Decades ago, I read an essay in The Atlantic about how shame gets a bad rap, about how shame might be the most effective motivator and a powerful agent for positive change.


Protecting everyone from shame strikes me as similar to giving everyone a trophy. There are shameful acts and they should be defined as such.


Caring more about a sliver of your comfort ("I don't want to wear a life jacket because it's uncomfy!") instead of your parents', siblings', and friends' grief when they view you pumped full of embalming fluid in your coffin and when you're no longer there for your spouse and children, that utter lack of foresight is shameful. Not perhaps shameful or maybe shameful, but shameful. There are no take-backs or do-overs once you're in the satin-lined box.


Mr. 89 also made a salient point about the ubiquity of cheeseburgers and disease, but shame isn't a one and done. There's plenty of deserved shame to apply to others and ourselves to propel change. "

You said it, sister.

I would never shame someone to wear a life a jacket. Beg and plead yes. I would do the same for someone wearing ATV helmets or seatbelts in a car. Your life matters. It matters to us, it matters to rescue workers, it matters to your family and friends. Please wear a PFD.

Apologies another fat fingered double post

Canoearoo: "I would never shame someone to wear a life a jacket. Beg and plead yes. I would do the same for someone wearing ATV helmets or seatbelts in a car. Your life matters. It matters to us, it matters to rescue workers, it matters to your family and friends. Please wear a PFD."

So true, trying to shame someone into wearing a pfd is vapid at best, forcing it on someone will have about the same effect, one can only hope to create real change through education. If you want to change someones mind I would suggest having them read the article “Quetico’s Cache Bay Ranger-Janice Matichuk” from the Spring 2020 edition of The Boundary Waters Journal (page 20) prior to reading that article, never in decades of tripping did I wear my pfd, since reading it I wear my pfd with very few exceptions. (Such as traveling up the Moose River to Agnes for hours in water two feet deep)

jwettelrin89: "And it's far more likely someone knows someone who died of heart disease or the side effects of obesity. Whats your point?


You weren't too agressive but some folks here are flat out calling people stupid for not wearing lifejackets and saying you can't ride with them unless you wear one. I was just trying to provide a little perspective. I admit lifejackets save lives, but that doesn't mean we need to shame people who don't. A lot of people make poor choices every day that could ultimately kill them. If we're going to judge people for taking risks that are so miniscule we're going to spend our whole lived upset with everyone and their faults. Why not just do your thing and let others do theirs?


Folks can canoe with me with or without a lifejacket. Its their choice."

No one can shame you unless you feel guilt, and if you feel guilt you have to ask yourself why? Like why would you comment on a thread that is trying to get a message out that could easily save a life which is worth a little shaming. If you do not agree with it, then ignore it, but don't try to shame the ones trying to save lives. That is beyond ridiculous, unless you are just a narcissistic person. The reason no one can canoe with me with out a life jacket is twofold. One, I do not want my trip ruined, and two I actually care for everyone I trip with and could never forget or forgive myself for not doing what I could. I have seen 3 instances where a life jacket likely saved a life, so not so rare if you are on the water as much as some of us. Hopefully, no hard feelings.

I don't need to feel guilt to be shamed. If someone flat out calls me stupid for not wearing a lifejacket they have made their position clear. If someone says they would never let me join them for a bwca trip they are shaming.

I guess if you insist dying on this hill go ahead. Sorry for asking for a little bit of respect for folks who choose not to wear one. Didn't realize I was asking so much from you.

People probably shouldn't go to the bwca before june or after september - those cold waters are dangerous and the gasp reflex could kill you (lifejacket or not). People shouldn't cross big water in high winds and big waves, you shouldn't go into the bwca without a satellite phone - how stupid would you be to not have this during a medical emergency? Its so easy! you shouldn't drink unfiltered water from the lake, you shouldn't be on the water or near high trees during thunderstorms - always have a weather radio, you should NEVER go in the BWCA alone. All of these things are dangerous, but why judge any of these people? Everyone takes risks every time they wake up in the morning and tenfold in the BWCA, no need to insult others over the risks they choose to take. Unless you NEED to be that guy. Which I guess you do?

Yeah. Sorry. I normally just lurk, but seeing people calling folks stupid or saying "you could never join my group if you roll like that" was just too pretentious for me to pass on. I have nothing wrong with most of the posts supporting lifejackets - I admit they are a great idea and you should wear them. I'm just saying no need to put others down who choose not to wear them. It looks like i won't be able to slow this witch hunt down though, the pitchforks are out! If you don't wear a lifejacket you might as well shoot my dog! Lol.

Ok. Dude. Keep going out and "smaming" for the greater good. the world needs more people out there shaming people - there's so many benefits!

As I mentioned with the cheeseburgers - they're way more likely to kill you, but I'm not going to drop a comment about how you don't need that when we stop at mcdonalds. I'm not going to hassel you for not exercising. There's a million things I could shame you for in an attempt to save you're life, but i'm not going to be an a$$ hole about it.

jwettelrin89: I'm just saying no need to put others down who choose not to wear them. "

What are the reasons a person chooses not to wear a PFD?

jwettelrin89: "Ok. Dude. Keep going out and "smaming" for the greater good. the world needs more people out there shaming people - there's so many benefits!
As I mentioned with the cheeseburgers - they're way more likely to kill you, but I'm not going to drop a comment about how you don't need that when we stop at mcdonalds. I'm not going to hassel you for not exercising. There's a million things I could shame you for in an attempt to save you're life, but i'm not going to be an a$$ hole about it. "

By your comments and attitude I'm going to assume that you don't wear a PFD. What's your reasoning?

They're bulky, hot, expensive, uncomfortable. There are some instances where I always wear one like running rapids or crossing big water in wavy conditions. But most of the time its just uncomfortable and unnecessary.

Why do you ever eat unhealthy foods like red meat or sugar when it's so easy for you to eat a salad instead? Is it perhaps your comfort that trumps your safety!? It's a stupid thing to do and it's so obviously bad for your health (and way more likely to kill you than not wearing a lifejacket).

Im not trying to shame anyone for eating unhealthy. I'm just pointing out there's a million things you can judge people for and look down at them for. Life is to short for that. Go out, live your life, and take the risks that you see fit. No need to insult others for taking different risks than you.

Minnesotian: What are the reasons a person chooses not to wear a PFD? "

Sunny, 94 degrees out, dead calm water, and surrounded by 50 canoes, kayaks and paddleboards within a minute or two paddle.

Mr. 89 raised the analogy of cheeseburgers again. As a nursing aide and caregiver, I've spent more than a year in a hospital. I've seen paralyzed motorcyclists with colostomy bags who couldn't wipe their noses. I've seen morbidly obese women who required an electric ceiling motor to be moved and who couldn't wipe their behinds. I wiped those noses. I wiped those behinds.

5% of the American public use 49% of the healthcare dollars, so damaging your body ripples through all our wallets. It's not simply a matter of personal freedom when we're all forced to pay for others' follies. Paying for others' recklessness lessens my freedom.

It's the same with PDFs. If you drown, the trip ends. You might even end someone else's life by dragging them down with you. I've read of many moments where someone was drowning and the would-be rescuer lost their life trying to save that person.

The dozens who rally to a drowning scene are yanked out of their day-to-day lives, their freedoms for the day(s) taken away. PDFs are Good Citizenship Vests (TM).

This discussion has led me down some rabbit holes and one thing I learned is that a teaspoon of water can drown you. Here's how: You fall into the water and inhale a teaspoon of water, which triggers coughing, which can have you inhaling more water, which can lead to drowning. You simply can't not cough, even if you're underwater at the time and understand that doing so will open and fill your lungs in the inhalation part of the coughing.

missmolly: "This discussion has led me down some rabbit holes and one thing I learned is that a teaspoon of water can drown you. Here's how: You fall into the water and inhale a teaspoon of water, which triggers coughing, which can have you inhaling more water, which can lead to drowning. You simply can't not cough, even if you're underwater at the time and understand that doing so will open and fill your lungs in the inhalation part of the coughing. "

That right there is the reason I try diligently to only drink whiskey that water is some dangerous stuff…

nooneuno: "

missmolly: "This discussion has led me down some rabbit holes and one thing I learned is that a teaspoon of water can drown you. Here's how: You fall into the water and inhale a teaspoon of water, which triggers coughing, which can have you inhaling more water, which can lead to drowning. You simply can't not cough, even if you're underwater at the time and understand that doing so will open and fill your lungs in the inhalation part of the coughing. "

That right there is the reason I try diligently to only drink whiskey that water is some dangerous stuff…"

I'll drink to that.

Say, I found a lake up yonder called Whiskey Lake? Wanna?

missmolly: "

nooneuno: "

missmolly: "This discussion has led me down some rabbit holes and one thing I learned is that a teaspoon of water can drown you. Here's how: You fall into the water and inhale a teaspoon of water, which triggers coughing, which can have you inhaling more water, which can lead to drowning. You simply can't not cough, even if you're underwater at the time and understand that doing so will open and fill your lungs in the inhalation part of the coughing. "

That right there is the reason I try diligently to only drink whiskey that water is some dangerous stuff…"

I'll drink to that.


Say, I found a lake up yonder called Whiskey Lake? Wanna?"

I’d give it a shot!

I tell people I travel with that it is selfish not to wear one.
You can't help save packs and equipment, if you are just trying to save yourself.

jwettelrin89: "They're bulky, hot, expensive, uncomfortable. There are some instances where I always wear one like running rapids or crossing big water in wavy conditions. But most of the time its just uncomfortable and unnecessary.

Why do you ever eat unhealthy foods like red meat or sugar when it's so easy for you to eat a salad instead? Is it perhaps your comfort that trumps your safety!? It's a stupid thing to do and it's so obviously bad for your health (and way more likely to kill you than not wearing a lifejacket).

Im not trying to shame anyone for eating unhealthy. I'm just pointing out there's a million things you can judge people for and look down at them for. Life is to short for that. Go out, live your life, and take the risks that you see fit. No need to insult others for taking different risks than you.
"

What it looks like from the original statistics that were attached, in 2021 16 people drowned in boating incidents that were not wearing a PFD. Since it's the law, let's assume those 16 people all had access to one. If those 16 people could go back in time to a few minutes before they got on or into the watercraft that day, how many of them do you think would do things differently? How many of them them still wouldn't put on their PFD knowing the outcome? Why were they not able to grab the PFD once they hit the water and get it on to save their life. In most cases someone was right there with them and saw it happen and was only a few feet away and within seconds was in the water trying to help them. Why were they not able to save them? A PFD probably would have changed the outcome in all of these instances.

jwettelrin89: "They're bulky, hot, expensive, uncomfortable. There are some instances where I always wear one like running rapids or crossing big water in wavy conditions. But most of the time its just uncomfortable and unnecessary.

"

Yes, I am familiar with those excuses. I used to have them as well. Then I went and got a PFD that fits me and I found that all those excuses evaporated because I was using subpar equipment.

But, I will not judge anyone on their choice to wear a PFD, seatbelt, motorcycle helmet, whites before Memorial Day or after Labor Day, or cheering any team other then the Minnesota Twins. Like you have pointed out, that is a choice left to the individual.

And I don't judge anyone even after I hear about them getting ejected through a car windshield during a crash when a seatbelt could have saved them, or when a motorcyclists could have prevented being a vegetable had they been wearing a helmet, or when someone on a beautiful, sunny skies, no wind day swamps their canoe and doesn't surface again because they got a leg cramp and weren't wearing a PFD.

Nope, I will not judge anyone for making those individual choices. I will just learn from them, and every time I hear of someone drowning, or dying in a car accident, my choice to wear a seatbelt or PFD is reinforced when I hear they died while not doing the most basic of safety precautions. Years and years of evidence points to these safety devices saving lives, yet if people still don't want to do them, that that is your choice.

Look at the millions of americans who died of heart disease, lung cancer, liver disease etc. Would they change things? Of course they would.

Agree to disagree I guess. I'm not arguing against people using lifejackets - I just don't see the need to be disrespectful to prove that point.

jwettelrin89: "Look at the millions of americans who died of heart disease, lung cancer, liver disease etc. Would they change things? Of course they would.

Agree to disagree I guess. I'm not arguing against people using lifejackets - I just don't see the need to be disrespectful to prove that point. "

The thread is not being disrespectful. Look at the title and the original post, what did you think the subject was going to about? It's obvious that it was going to be about the importance of wearing PFD's based on many years of discussion on this website discussing the importance and the opinion of many members. It's our annual reminder/recruitment to all to please wear your PFD.

The disrespectful part is when someone comes on the post and tries to stir the pot and argue that we are wrong to do so.

nooneuno: "

missmolly: "

nooneuno: "

missmolly: "This discussion has led me down some rabbit holes and one thing I learned is that a teaspoon of water can drown you. Here's how: You fall into the water and inhale a teaspoon of water, which triggers coughing, which can have you inhaling more water, which can lead to drowning. You simply can't not cough, even if you're underwater at the time and understand that doing so will open and fill your lungs in the inhalation part of the coughing. "

That right there is the reason I try diligently to only drink whiskey that water is some dangerous stuff…"

I'll drink to that.



Say, I found a lake up yonder called Whiskey Lake? Wanna?"

I’d give it a shot!"

Bodies of Water near Brandy Lake
Wine Lake
Detroit Lakes, MN
Mud Lake
Oakport, MN
Oak Lake
Detroit Lakes, MN
Oar Lake
Detroit Lakes, MN
Long Lake

missmolly: "This discussion has led me down some rabbit holes and one thing I learned is that a teaspoon of water can drown you. Here's how: You fall into the water and inhale a teaspoon of water, which triggers coughing, which can have you inhaling more water, which can lead to drowning. You simply can't not cough, even if you're underwater at the time and understand that doing so will open and fill your lungs in the inhalation part of the coughing. "

THIS! My friends son was a star on the swim team. All it takes in one suprize fall in and its over. A great swimmer can't swim with water in the lungs.

jwettelrin89: "Look at the millions of americans who died of heart disease, lung cancer, liver disease etc. Would they change things? Of course they would.


Agree to disagree I guess. I'm not arguing against people using lifejackets - I just don't see the need to be disrespectful to prove that point. "

There are a lot of people passionate about healthy living as well. They might not post in here but I see it on Facebook all the time. Yes we should all wear a life jacket and eat healthier. So please take the take the first step :)

Do you wear a lifejacket on a cruise ship?
Pontoon boat?
Paddle board?
25 foot motor boat?
When on a dock? Living on a lake my whole life I have seen more people fall off of docks than out of boats. By at least 10 to 1.

On average, there were about 400 reported pool/spa drowning deaths among children younger than age 15 each year from 2016 through 2018. This is just children.
Should we wear lifejackets around the pool?

nooneuno: "

missmolly: "

nooneuno: "

missmolly: "This discussion has led me down some rabbit holes and one thing I learned is that a teaspoon of water can drown you. Here's how: You fall into the water and inhale a teaspoon of water, which triggers coughing, which can have you inhaling more water, which can lead to drowning. You simply can't not cough, even if you're underwater at the time and understand that doing so will open and fill your lungs in the inhalation part of the coughing. "

That right there is the reason I try diligently to only drink whiskey that water is some dangerous stuff…"

I'll drink to that.



Say, I found a lake up yonder called Whiskey Lake? Wanna?"

I’d give it a shot!"

Witty! ;-)

I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!

This thread is interesting. I wear my PFD 100 percent of the time I’m on the water and on portages while in the park, but not just for all the aforementioned reasons. My unsolicited two cents worth is that if you own a Stohlquist Fisherman, you will never NOT wear your PFD. I mean, this thing fits so well, has these two convenient gear compartments on the front, and is so comfortable that more often than not I don’t even realize I have it on until after I’ve made camp. I acquired mine after hearing the boys from the Tumblehome podcast rave about theirs.

For me personally it’s all about how it fits and the convenience it provides. The safety aspect is the icing on the cake.

To each their own.

Northwoodsman: "

jwettelrin89: "Look at the millions of americans who died of heart disease, lung cancer, liver disease etc. Would they change things? Of course they would.

Agree to disagree I guess. I'm not arguing against people using lifejackets - I just don't see the need to be disrespectful to prove that point. "

The thread is not being disrespectful. Look at the title and the original post, what did you think the subject was going to about? It's obvious that it was going to be about the importance of wearing PFD's based on many years of discussion on this website discussing the importance and the opinion of many members. It's our annual reminder/recruitment to all to please wear your PFD.

The disrespectful part is when someone comes on the post and tries to stir the pot and argue that we are wrong to do so."

Here's a snippet I pulled from earlier - this is what really upset me, not folks suggesting you wear a lifejacket.
"What a load of crap. What it does is make you look stupid. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but that is the honest truth, it’s no different then someone refusing to wear a seatbelt"

So I'm the one stirring the pot? Not the person who called me stupid? Not to mention all the pretentious comments like "If you don't wear a lifejacket you can never roll with me?

Don't be surprised someone claps back to being called stupid. You might think I'm "stirring the pot" but I'm not the one who called anyone stupid. Sorry asking for a little bit of respect is so difficult for you to give.

nctry: "I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!"

Dude - someone called people who don't wear lifejackets stupid. I don't think this forum is a place to insult others you disagree with. I didn't realize that was a hot take. I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion. The pitchforks are out and the people won't stop until they get blood!

Savage Voyageur: "If there is a person in my group that doesn’t want to wear their PFD they will not be tripping with me. I will simply not go. And since most stops I get the permit they will not be going ether. I don’t care what others do on other trips. It’s their choice what to do, not mine. What I’m saying is I won’t be with you if you choose not to wear one.
My younger brother and I told my older brother we were not leaving shore until my brother but his PFD on. He was mad at first but he understood why we felt this way.
And to the keyboard cowboys out there, it has nothing to do with shaming calling them stupid, or a power trip thing. It has to do with me not loosing a family member or friend on a trip. Don’t believe me??? Ask some of the people here that have lost friends and family on canoe trips. I have read their stories and listened to their stories. It is something you never forget. "

If I was your family member I'd slap every ice creme cone and hamburgur out of your hand because I "care" about you.

I didn't realize asking people on here not to insult others for their choices was such a hot take. I've made my point. You have made yours. Keep doing gods work by insulting those you disagree with. The world needs more people like you!

jwettelrin89: "

nctry: "I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!"

Dude - someone called people who don't wear lifejackets stupid. I don't think this forum is a place to insult others you disagree with. I didn't realize that was a hot take. I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion. The pitchforks are out and the people won't stop until they get blood!"

Ben doesn't want your blood, Jeff. He simply shared how quickly capsizing can go south. FYI, since you're the new kid on the block (and welcome!), Ben is beloved here. He's experienced, funny, generous with his time, helpful to many, and kind.

As far as the word "stupid" being used, imagine that you're an F-22 pilot and I'm your crew chief. Your canopy needs replacing, so I order a new one, remove the old one, and you take your seat, ready to fly and pull some serious Gs. Then I simply set the new canopy in position and use Scotch tape to "attach" it to the fuselage instead of bolts. Can you agree that that's stupid? I ask because I want to get a sense if it's sometimes appropriate to use that word.

Sincerely,

Your crew chief

scottiebaldwin: "This thread is interesting. I wear my PFD 100 percent of the time I’m on the water and on portages while in the park, but not just for all the aforementioned reasons. My unsolicited two cents worth is that if you own a Stohlquist Fisherman, you will never NOT wear your PFD. I mean, this thing fits so well, has these two convenient gear compartments on the front, and is so comfortable that more often than not I don’t even realize I have it on until after I’ve made camp. I acquired mine after hearing the boys from the Tumblehome podcast rave about theirs.


For me personally it’s all about how it fits and the convenience it provides. The safety aspect is the icing on the cake.


To each their own.


"

Thanks for the tip. I have the old SEDA vest which are no longer made so will need a replacement at some point.

T

timatkn: "

scottiebaldwin: "This thread is interesting. I wear my PFD 100 percent of the time I’m on the water and on portages while in the park, but not just for all the aforementioned reasons. My unsolicited two cents worth is that if you own a Stohlquist Fisherman, you will never NOT wear your PFD. I mean, this thing fits so well, has these two convenient gear compartments on the front, and is so comfortable that more often than not I don’t even realize I have it on until after I’ve made camp. I acquired mine after hearing the boys from the Tumblehome podcast rave about theirs.



For me personally it’s all about how it fits and the convenience it provides. The safety aspect is the icing on the cake.



To each their own.



"

Thanks for the tip. I have the old SEDA vest which are no longer made so will need a replacement at some point.


T"

I'm ordering one too. I love the idea of a PDF so comfy that you forget you're wearing it. I also like the pockets. When it comes to pockets, I'm with Yelena!

I worked at Canadian Border Outfitters in the 70/80s.
Owner Tom Harristhal was heart broken when a Chicago kid (18 year old), drowned on Ensign Lake. I drove the tow boat to pick up his buddies.
The father flew up.
It was so sad.
He knew how to swim and was only 30 feet from shore.
After that, Tom Harristhal never let a canoe leave the dock without everyone wearing a life vest.

Stumpy: "I worked at Canadian Border Outfitters in the 70/80s.
Owner Tom Harristhal was heart broken when a Chicago kid (18 year old), drowned on Ensign Lake. I drove the tow boat to pick up his buddies.
The father flew up.
It was so sad.
He knew how to swim and was only 30 feet from shore.
After that, Tom Harristhal never let a canoe leave the dock without everyone wearing a life vest.



"

Stumpy, I wrote about how grief that comes from a personal decision gone awry reverberates outward and outward, but you did the same thing more poignantly here, so thanks for that.

jwettelrin89: "

nctry: "I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!"

Dude - someone called people who don't wear lifejackets stupid. I don't think this forum is a place to insult others you disagree with. I didn't realize that was a hot take. I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion. The pitchforks are out and the people won't stop until they get blood!"

Jeff,
I apologize if you took offense to my “stupid” comment above. My intention wasn’t to call people not wearing PfD’s stupid. If it came off that way to you, I am sorry. The message I was trying to convey is that it’s a stupid decision and I stand by that. I still think it’s a stupid decision. As someone who’s own life has been saved by wearing a PFD and as someone that has aided in the rescue of some capsized, non-PFD wearing paddlers, I think it’s a stupid decision not to wear one.

I appreciate your passion, I guess we’ll just have to disagree and that’s fine. Have a great open water season.

Tony

I choose to wear a life jacket when on the water, even when it may not be able to keep me alive. I wear it for my family and those tasked with recovery.

Mine is an mti Java, in bright yellow. It's the total opposite of "bulky, hot, and uncomfortable." Yes, I left out "expensive" because I'm not sure how to compare its cost to that of my future life here on Earth.

DanCooke: "I choose to wear a life jacket when on the water, even when it may not be able to keep me alive. I wear it for my family and those tasked with recovery. "

Dan, when it comes to recovering drowned people, this article sure sticks with me.

I have crossed the Drake passage. wore an inflatable life jacket. if you went overboard it would be 15 minutes to take down the sail and get turned around. The maybe a half hour to get back to the co-ordinates where you went overboard. Then depending on wind, waves and current the search would begin. In 40 degree or colder water only your Life jacket would keep you on the surface. I thought there was zero chance they would find you. A Plane went down with 38 on board while we were crossing the Drake, a cruise ship picked up a piece of debris but nothing else was found.

Life insurance pays out much quicker if a body can be found, if not it may take 7 years to be officially declared dead.

DanCooke: "I have crossed the Drake passage. wore an inflatable life jacket. if you went overboard it would be 15 minutes to take down the sail and get turned around. The maybe a half hour to get back to the co-ordinates where you went overboard. Then depending on wind, waves and current the search would begin. In 40 degree or colder water only your Life jacket would keep you on the surface. I thought there was zero chance they would find you. A Plane went down with 38 on board while we were crossing the Drake, a cruise ship picked up a piece of debris but nothing else was found.


Life insurance pays out much quicker if a body can be found, if not it may take 7 years to be officially declared dead."

Dan, speaking of sailing and the spreading effects of our choices, here's a little story:

A man, leaving his cabin, noted water leaking from under the door of the adjoining cabin and into the hallway.

He knocked and yelled, "Are you alright in there?"

That cabin's occupant answered the door with a sweaty face, a pick ax in his hands, and a splintery hole in the floor of his cabin, leaking profusely.

"What in the Hell are you doing?" the man asked the man with the pick ax.

"I'm doing whatever the Hell I want," the man snarled. "It's a free world and this is my cabin, so who are you to judge me!"

Drake Passage

Awesome mm.

GopherAdventure: "

jwettelrin89: "

nctry: "I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!"

Dude - someone called people who don't wear lifejackets stupid. I don't think this forum is a place to insult others you disagree with. I didn't realize that was a hot take. I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion. The pitchforks are out and the people won't stop until they get blood!"

Jeff,
I apologize if you took offense to my “stupid” comment above. My intention wasn’t to call people not wearing PfD’s stupid. If it came off that way to you, I am sorry. The message I was trying to convey is that it’s a stupid decision and I stand by that. I still think it’s a stupid decision. As someone who’s own life has been saved by wearing a PFD and as someone that has aided in the rescue of some capsized, non-PFD wearing paddlers, I think it’s a stupid decision not to wear one.


I appreciate your passion, I guess we’ll just have to disagree and that’s fine. Have a great open water season.


Tony"

Well thanks for calling me stupid a few more times to round out your appology.
Keep doing gods work!

jwettelrin89: "

GopherAdventure: "

jwettelrin89: "

nctry: "I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!"

Dude - someone called people who don't wear lifejackets stupid. I don't think this forum is a place to insult others you disagree with. I didn't realize that was a hot take. I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion. The pitchforks are out and the people won't stop until they get blood!"

Jeff,
I apologize if you took offense to my “stupid” comment above. My intention wasn’t to call people not wearing PfD’s stupid. If it came off that way to you, I am sorry. The message I was trying to convey is that it’s a stupid decision and I stand by that. I still think it’s a stupid decision. As someone who’s own life has been saved by wearing a PFD and as someone that has aided in the rescue of some capsized, non-PFD wearing paddlers, I think it’s a stupid decision not to wear one.



I appreciate your passion, I guess we’ll just have to disagree and that’s fine. Have a great open water season.



Tony"

Well thanks for calling me stupid a few more times to round out your appology.
Keep doing gods work!"

Holy crap DUDE reread his apology he was not calling you stupid only saying your decision was stupid. Did Einstein never do anything stupid? How about Bill Gates or Elon Musk? Everyone makes stupid decisions at some point in there lives that does not make them stupid people any more than those decisions alone make you stupid.

nooneuno: "

jwettelrin89: "

GopherAdventure: "

jwettelrin89: "

nctry: "I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!"

Dude - someone called people who don't wear lifejackets stupid. I don't think this forum is a place to insult others you disagree with. I didn't realize that was a hot take. I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion. The pitchforks are out and the people won't stop until they get blood!"

Jeff,
I apologize if you took offense to my “stupid” comment above. My intention wasn’t to call people not wearing PfD’s stupid. If it came off that way to you, I am sorry. The message I was trying to convey is that it’s a stupid decision and I stand by that. I still think it’s a stupid decision. As someone who’s own life has been saved by wearing a PFD and as someone that has aided in the rescue of some capsized, non-PFD wearing paddlers, I think it’s a stupid decision not to wear one.



I appreciate your passion, I guess we’ll just have to disagree and that’s fine. Have a great open water season.



Tony"

Well thanks for calling me stupid a few more times to round out your appology.
Keep doing gods work!"

Holy crap DUDE reread his apology he was not calling you stupid only saying your decision was stupid. Did Einstein never do anything stupid? How about Bill Gates or Elon Musk? Everyone makes stupid decisions at some point in there lives that does not make them stupid people any more than those decisions alone make you stupid."

Holy crap dude. It's the same thing. Of course everyone is stupid at some point in their life. That doesn't mean you're not being a dick by pointing it out. There's a lot of true things that are just rude to point out. Doesn't sound like you understand that though. You're being stupid right now. But i'm not calling you stupid. You're just being stupid right now. Hope you don't take this the wrong way. According to you there's nothing wrong with saying people do stupid things so surely you will take no offense to this.

jwettelrin89: "

nooneuno: "

jwettelrin89: "

GopherAdventure: "

jwettelrin89: "

nctry: "I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!"

Dude - someone called people who don't wear lifejackets stupid. I don't think this forum is a place to insult others you disagree with. I didn't realize that was a hot take. I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion. The pitchforks are out and the people won't stop until they get blood!"

Jeff,
I apologize if you took offense to my “stupid” comment above. My intention wasn’t to call people not wearing PfD’s stupid. If it came off that way to you, I am sorry. The message I was trying to convey is that it’s a stupid decision and I stand by that. I still think it’s a stupid decision. As someone who’s own life has been saved by wearing a PFD and as someone that has aided in the rescue of some capsized, non-PFD wearing paddlers, I think it’s a stupid decision not to wear one.




I appreciate your passion, I guess we’ll just have to disagree and that’s fine. Have a great open water season.




Tony"

Well thanks for calling me stupid a few more times to round out your appology.
Keep doing gods work!"

Holy crap DUDE reread his apology he was not calling you stupid only saying your decision was stupid. Did Einstein never do anything stupid? How about Bill Gates or Elon Musk? Everyone makes stupid decisions at some point in there lives that does not make them stupid people any more than those decisions alone make you stupid."

Holy crap dude. It's the same thing. Of course everyone is stupid at some point in their life. That doesn't mean you're not being a dick by pointing it out. There's a lot of true things that are just rude to point out. Doesn't sound like you understand that though. You're being stupid right now. But i'm not calling you stupid. You're just being stupid right now. Hope you don't take this the wrong way. According to you there's nothing wrong with saying people do stupid things so surely you will take no offense to this."

Well I tried… good luck on your upcoming trips and stay safe.

I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread.

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Ah, we've been down that potholed road many times. I suggest a flamethrowers in the BWCA thread. I'll argue for 'em:

1. Bear deterrent

2. Campsite extender

3. They will give LindenTree a chance to earn some extra spending money.

4. They'll preempt Mother Nature, keeping the ol' gal quick on her bunioned feet.

missmolly: "

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Ah, we've been down that potholed road many times. I suggest a flamethrowers in the BWCA thread. I'll argue for 'em:


1. Bear deterrent


2. Campsite extender


3. They will give LindenTree a chance to earn some extra spending money.


4. They'll preempt Mother Nature, keeping the ol' gal quick on her bunioned feet. "

Hot topic indeed

nooneuno: "

jwettelrin89: "

nooneuno: "

jwettelrin89: "

GopherAdventure: "

jwettelrin89: "

nctry: "I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!"

Dude - someone called people who don't wear lifejackets stupid. I don't think this forum is a place to insult others you disagree with. I didn't realize that was a hot take. I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion. The pitchforks are out and the people won't stop until they get blood!"

Jeff,
I apologize if you took offense to my “stupid” comment above. My intention wasn’t to call people not wearing PfD’s stupid. If it came off that way to you, I am sorry. The message I was trying to convey is that it’s a stupid decision and I stand by that. I still think it’s a stupid decision. As someone who’s own life has been saved by wearing a PFD and as someone that has aided in the rescue of some capsized, non-PFD wearing paddlers, I think it’s a stupid decision not to wear one.





I appreciate your passion, I guess we’ll just have to disagree and that’s fine. Have a great open water season.





Tony"

Well thanks for calling me stupid a few more times to round out your appology.
Keep doing gods work!"

Holy crap DUDE reread his apology he was not calling you stupid only saying your decision was stupid. Did Einstein never do anything stupid? How about Bill Gates or Elon Musk? Everyone makes stupid decisions at some point in there lives that does not make them stupid people any more than those decisions alone make you stupid."

Holy crap dude. It's the same thing. Of course everyone is stupid at some point in their life. That doesn't mean you're not being a dick by pointing it out. There's a lot of true things that are just rude to point out. Doesn't sound like you understand that though. You're being stupid right now. But i'm not calling you stupid. You're just being stupid right now. Hope you don't take this the wrong way. According to you there's nothing wrong with saying people do stupid things so surely you will take no offense to this."

Well I tried… good luck on your upcoming trips and stay safe."

Lol. You tried? Sure thing bud. You really extended the olive branch: Holy crap DUDE reread his apology he was not calling you stupid only saying your decision was stupid. Did Einstein never do anything stupid? How about Bill Gates or Elon Musk? Everyone makes stupid decisions at some point in there lives that does not make them stupid people any more than those decisions alone make you stupid."

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Haha. We do bring shotguns for waterfowl and grouse. I guess i'll always be a polarizing figure on this website. Don't wear a lifejacket and hunt.

missmolly: "

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Ah, we've been down that potholed road many times. I suggest a flamethrowers in the BWCA thread. I'll argue for 'em:


1. Bear deterrent


2. Campsite extender


3. They will give LindenTree a chance to earn some extra spending money.


4. They'll preempt Mother Nature, keeping the ol' gal quick on her bunioned feet. "

How about an entirely new category of wonderfullness, we could discuss not just guns, and flame throwers but also politics perhaps it could be called “Politics in the BWCA”. What could possibly go wrong?

missmolly: "
Ah, we've been down that potholed road many times. I suggest a flamethrowers in the BWCA thread. I'll argue for 'em:


1. Bear deterrent


2. Campsite extender


3. They will give LindenTree a chance to earn some extra spending money.


4. They'll preempt Mother Nature, keeping the ol' gal quick on her bunioned feet. "

missmolly,

I retired from firefighting, If you can't remember that, well that's just stupid :-)

Last year I bought a new PFD. Recently it’s been on my mind whether or not it would actually save me if I took a spill. I got thinking about this because a friend took a spill 3 weeks ago and had trouble because his jacket wasn’t adjusted correctly. All along I’ve just assumed that the PFD would do it’s job and I’d be able to avoid drowning if I did happen to flip my canoe. I’m now convinced that I need to go practice flipping my canoe to be sure that I’ve got the right piece of equipment. I’d be stupid not to make sure because it’s not an if I flip kind of deal, it’s a when I flip kind of deal. Safe travels

Savage Voyageur: "

missmolly: "

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Ah, we've been down that potholed road many times. I suggest a flamethrowers in the BWCA thread. I'll argue for 'em:



1. Bear deterrent



2. Campsite extender



3. They will give LindenTree a chance to earn some extra spending money.



4. They'll preempt Mother Nature, keeping the ol' gal quick on her bunioned feet. "

Hot topic indeed "

;-)

nooneuno: "

missmolly: "

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Ah, we've been down that potholed road many times. I suggest a flamethrowers in the BWCA thread. I'll argue for 'em:



1. Bear deterrent



2. Campsite extender



3. They will give LindenTree a chance to earn some extra spending money.



4. They'll preempt Mother Nature, keeping the ol' gal quick on her bunioned feet. "

How about an entirely new category of wonderfullness, we could discuss not just guns, and flame throwers but also politics perhaps it could be called “Politics in the BWCA”. What could possibly go wrong?"

I literally laughed out loud. A hearty laugh is a great way to start the day, so thanks for that.

LindenTree: "

missmolly: "
Ah, we've been down that potholed road many times. I suggest a flamethrowers in the BWCA thread. I'll argue for 'em:



1. Bear deterrent



2. Campsite extender



3. They will give LindenTree a chance to earn some extra spending money.



4. They'll preempt Mother Nature, keeping the ol' gal quick on her bunioned feet. "

missmolly,


I retired from firefighting, If you can't remember that, well that's just stupid :-)"

How dare you call the Scotch Tape F-22 crew chief stupid! I use two whole rolls to secure those canopies!!!

If you feel you are getting shamed by reading a post about pro PFD wearers, then don't click on it and don't read it. It's simple, that's how others handle it.

Snorty: "Last year I bought a new PFD. Recently it’s been on my mind whether or not it would actually save me if I took a spill. I got thinking about this because a friend took a spill 3 weeks ago and had trouble because his jacket wasn’t adjusted correctly. All along I’ve just assumed that the PFD would do it’s job and I’d be able to avoid drowning if I did happen to flip my canoe. I’m now convinced that I need to go practice flipping my canoe to be sure that I’ve got the right piece of equipment. I’d be stupid not to make sure because it’s not an if I flip kind of deal, it’s a when I flip kind of deal. Safe travels "

That's a great point, Snorty. We should all test our equipment.

missmolly: "

Snorty: "Last year I bought a new PFD. Recently it’s been on my mind whether or not it would actually save me if I took a spill. I got thinking about this because a friend took a spill 3 weeks ago and had trouble because his jacket wasn’t adjusted correctly. All along I’ve just assumed that the PFD would do it’s job and I’d be able to avoid drowning if I did happen to flip my canoe. I’m now convinced that I need to go practice flipping my canoe to be sure that I’ve got the right piece of equipment. I’d be stupid not to make sure because it’s not an if I flip kind of deal, it’s a when I flip kind of deal. Safe travels "

That's a great point, Snorty. We should all test our equipment. "

I have an inflatable Miss Molly. If I test one kit (cartridge/bobbin) I know that one works, but when I reload it, how will I know the next kit works? I know what you are saying.

jwettelrin89: "

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Haha. We do bring shotguns for waterfowl and grouse. I guess i'll always be a polarizing figure on this website. Don't wear a lifejacket and hunt."

As someone who has been familiar with this forum for a dozen years or so I would suggest refraining from posting any thing that may offend a person who voted for the current guy and that should help keep the pitchforks at bay.

Thank you Miss Molly, to often we just assume things that we shouldn’t. Testing equipment is worth the effort. I want to say something about inflatables, they activate when they get wet.
For example, mine inflated in my boats storage box after a rain. I personally don’t trust them anymore. But that’s just me.

I admit to finding the oft repeated, self-satisfied, smug threads on PFD use annoying. That being said, last year's iteration of a thread prompted me to buy a new more comfortable PFD (NRS Ninja) for tripping and I wear it consistently due to increased comfort and freedom of movement. Comfortable enough to wear for late season skate-skiing (for recovery not survival). Freedom of motion is so great that even at my advanced age it's possible to pat myself on the back while wearing.

Gadfly: "

jwettelrin89: "

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Haha. We do bring shotguns for waterfowl and grouse. I guess i'll always be a polarizing figure on this website. Don't wear a lifejacket and hunt."

As someone who has been familiar with this forum for a dozen years or so I would suggest refraining from posting any thing that may offend a person who voted for the current guy and that should help keep the pitchforks at bay. "

This is the sad truth. A word to the wise...don't offend the ruling class.

Back to the intent of the original post:

Last October I was in the bow of the canoe as we were paddling a long set of rapids in Desolation Canyon on the Green River in Utah. I was on my knees with legs under the seat for more stability when we capsized. Because of the position of my legs, I was pinned under the canoe in very fast current. The PFD was the only thing that kept my mouth in the air as the canoe was trying to push me under. Luckily another upright canoe crew came quickly for rescue and was able to lift the boat up a bit so I could get out.

Even for that 20 seconds, it was immediately apparent I wouldn't have made it out without that PFD.

Thanks for posting the DNR stats and summary details, I used the information in it as part of an aquatics presentation I gave to some scout leaders last weekend, along with cold water immersion information.

Whoa, OneMatch. That sounds so scary.

Quick post. Look at the newest Joe Robinet video on youtube.

Wow indeed OneMatch. Great outcome.

Over the years, I have organized and planned over 25 trips to the BWCA. I have taken many family members, friends and acquaintances with a wide range of camping and paddling experience into the woods. On my trips, I insist that everyone wears a life jacket whenever they are on the water. Why? Because I feel a responsibility to the parents, spouses, brothers and sisters of my trip mates, to do everything I can to insure they get a great wilderness experience and that they are returned home safely. That's how I roll.

I too have an inflatable (onyx a/m) twice it has deployed in the bdub, once in a steady rainstorm and once in a normal wet week without actual rain. I always bring two recharges and have disabled the automatic mode so it is manual only, I have had the same dread as you about it not deploying when needed even though it has the manual inflation tube that you blow in. I feel in the warmer months I could tread water enough to accomplish this, however, early or late season I am not foolish or naive enough to believe that I could so for those periods it’s always a traditional pfd, not only for the flotation but the added warmth it would provide once ashore.

jwettelrin89: "

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Haha. We do bring shotguns for waterfowl and grouse. I guess i'll always be a polarizing figure on this website. Don't wear a lifejacket and hunt."

Are you a member of the Hunting group? I don’t remember you posting. There is a whole page dedicated to hunting, although it’s not that active. Mostly because I think most hunters go different places.

T

greywolf33: "Over the years, I have organized and planned over 25 trips to the BWCA. I have taken many family members, friends and acquaintances with a wide range of camping and paddling experience into the woods. On my trips, I insist that everyone wears a life jacket whenever they are on the water. Why? Because I feel a responsibility to the parents, spouses, brothers and sisters of my trip mates, to do everything I can to insure they get a great wilderness experience and that they are returned home safely. That's how I roll."

And you roll well.

Boy am I late.

Ok, Ready?

I think people that don’t wear a PFD are either ignorant or stupid. I nearly drowned three years ago in Quetico. By the time I realized that I had dumped out of the canoe, I was bobbing along in the river. My hair never even got wet. The PFD kept me buoyant.

It was a nice June day with the sun shining. I made an error in judgement and dumped. I am putting my money where my mouth is. I lived through a serious incident.

I read that PFD’s are expensive, hot, and sometime unnecessary.
That is either pure stupidity or pure ignorance. One or the other.

Wisdom comes from age and life experiences.

Tom

timatkn: "

jwettelrin89: "

Savage Voyageur: "I so wish someone here would start a guns in the BWCA thread. "

Haha. We do bring shotguns for waterfowl and grouse. I guess i'll always be a polarizing figure on this website. Don't wear a lifejacket and hunt."

Are you a member of the Hunting group? I don’t remember you posting. There is a whole page dedicated to hunting, although it’s not that active. Mostly because I think most hunters go different places.


T"

Am not. I was about to give it up because we usually didn't see much, but last year I had my best waterfowl hunting of the season in the BWCA. There were areas with 500+ ducks and 200+ geese. It was unreal.

tumblehome: "Boy am I late.


Ok, Ready?


I think people that don’t wear a PFD are either ignorant or stupid. I nearly drowned three years ago in Quetico. By the time I realized that I had dumped out of the canoe, I was bobbing along in the river. My hair never even got wet. The PFD kept me buoyant.


It was a nice June day with the sun shining. I made an error in judgement and dumped. I am putting my money where my mouth is. I lived through a serious incident.

I read that PFD’s are expensive, hot, and sometime unnecessary.
That is either pure stupidity or pure ignorance. One or the other.

Wisdom comes from age and life experiences.


Tom"

And I think you're stupid for canoeing in rivers. Current is dangerous. Cheers!

I think people are reaaaaaly stupid for doing solo trips. Ungodly dumb for not always having a satellite phone with extra batteries. Stupid for drinking unfiltered water. Stupid for bringing and swinging hatchets when you're soo far from a hospital. Stupid for not bringing a weather radio so they don't get caught in a storm. Have you seen the folks on portages without masks last year? It's like why don't you just spit in my mouth and give me covid if you want to be that wreckless. Don't even get me started on folks who bring their dogs, what if the dog sees a squirrel and dumps the canoe? Man that's dumb and I want those people to know how dumb I think they are! This is fun and really brings us together, huh? Glad we have a forum where we can all talk about how stupid everyone is. I don't have the energy for this, but please keep doing your civic duty and pointing out everytime you think someone is doing something stupid - people love other people who do that!

I guess you think my excuses are B.S. but if you think wearing a pfd on a 90 degree day is comfortable I don't trust anything else you're going to say. Also - comfortable lifejackets are expensive. Not everyone has a thousand bucks to drop on gear, I guess you think that means people are stupid if they can't afford all of the proper safety gear. You know - satellite phones, weather radios, $150 dollar lifejackets etc. I guess now you're shaming poor people too! Good for you!

FYI, these PFDs from West Marine are pretty comfy and $22. They are what we keep around for guests at our cabin and at home for guests on our sailboat.

I've been reading this. Someone needs a chill pill, geez give it a rest already. I've never been one to wear a PFD except for a long lake crossing in big waves. Maybe I should tho, mine isn't uncomfortable or anything, I just like taking my shirt off and catching rays and feeling , I don't know, free in my own element. Don't think I'll do it on my local lakes, but maybe more when I'm up north. It's just sitting there, why not, I'm sure I'll get used to it. I'll give it a shot around here as well and trust me I know I can be stupid, I'm ok with that.
Cheers, scat

Stupid is as stupid does.

Fun thread. I understand Jwet's point. I think the cheeseburger analogy was a bad one, but the others are valid. Everyone that goes to the BW takes some level of risk. To his point, canoeing in rivers is more dangerous than lakes, bringing a hatchet? Going solo is certianly more risky than not? Tripping in the shoulder season, water's cold, you dump, PFD or not, hypothermia is the bigger threat. We don't call those people ignorant or stupid, yet it clearly provides an increased level of risk. Outside of the BW - Driving 80 up I35...more risky than say 75?

Some of the group, for personal reasons and experiences have assigned a much higher level of risk to PFD's than the previously listed items. That's ok, and if for those personal reasons or experiences you feel it's ignorant or stupid to have your PFD off under any circumstances on the water...that's ok to. Calling those that aren't with you and have not assessed the risk to the same level as you, stupid and ignorant, not ok. Perhaps a better way, tell your story and explain your reasons and skip the combative adjectives.

I don't see anyone on here advocating to never wear a PFD. 99% of the time - mine is on. If the water's cold, it's on. If i'm on a river, it's on. Big lake, big waves, it's on. Additionally - it's on because, if not, it's one more loose item in the bottom of the boat. I'd rather just wear it. However, July at the cabin - it's off. I'll paddle out to the middle of the lake and dump for fun, float in the water for a bit watching the clouds go by and then right the boat and get back in. Sometimes I'll just swim and float to the middle of the lake, no boat, no PFD, eventually I'll swim back in. August in the BW, multiple tandems in my group, 90 degrees, calm day - it's off. I'm hot and I like the sun. It's about risk assessment and for me I don't see August in the BW, calm day, 90 degrees, multiple boats as stupid. Running rapids without a PFD - ya, I'm with you, not the best move.

Well argued, Speckled.

Chieflonewatie: "Stupid is as stupid does."

Reminds me of some Mark Twain quotes.

Thanks for the post, canoearoo. I read them all, twice. I hope everybody read them. A lot of food for thought and a reminder of how quickly things can go wrong, how invalid many of our assumptions are in the moment.

I luckily learned my lesson without death, but it could have been.
I'm a good swimmer.

No one trips with me, without a life jacket on.

boonie: "

Chieflonewatie: "Stupid is as stupid does."

Reminds me of some Mark Twain quotes. "

Actually it was from a more well known scholar Forest Gump. Wait no it was Momma.

Stumpy: "I luckily learned my lesson without death, but it could have been.
I'm a good swimmer.
"

Ditto. May 23, 2001. No swimming while unconscious.

bobbernumber3: "

Stumpy: "I luckily learned my lesson without death, but it could have been.
I'm a good swimmer.
"

Ditto. May 23, 2001. No swimming while unconscious."

Is that how you got your moniker?

Chieflonewatie: "

boonie: "

Chieflonewatie: "Stupid is as stupid does."

Reminds me of some Mark Twain quotes. "

Actually it was from a more well known scholar Forest Gump. Wait no it was Momma."

Ha! LOL-grade funny!

user0317: "Is that how you got your moniker?"

When my wife read about this in the paper, I wasn't mentioned by name. She said, "Well who were you? Bobbernumber3?"

I think that a set of rules for any backcountry trip is a good thing. Clear the air in advance. If you don’t agree, get a different group. There’s no shaming in that. Some of the rules I follow or impose on others seem stupid. Oh well. I’ll catch you around but not on this trip. My buddy has a rule that there will never be any alcohol consumed, even one beer, until all guns are safely unloaded and cased for the day. Is isn’t stupid or non-stupid. The fact that nobody has been shot doesn’t make the rule good or bad, necessary or useless. It’s just his rule. I won’t go on a non-hunting BWCA trip if someone needs a gun. I won’t go on a bush trip in grizzly country unless we have one. How people roll matters, if you want to roll with them. As for opinions, that’s what this site is about. Expressing one or asking for them. There’s nothing personal in that 99.9% of the time. It can get kind of hot on topics like this. People have strong opinions on life and death stuff and on personal choice stuff. This topic combines the two and always will.

KawnipiKid: "I think that a set of rules for any backcountry trip is a good thing. Clear the air in advance. If you don’t agree, get a different group. There’s no shaming in that. Some of the rules I follow or impose on others seem stupid. Oh well. I’ll catch you around but not on this trip. My buddy has a rule that there will never be any alcohol consumed, even one beer, until all guns are safely unloaded and cased for the day. Is isn’t stupid or non-stupid. The fact that nobody has been shot doesn’t make the rule good or bad, necessary or useless. It’s just his rule. I won’t go on a non-hunting BWCA trip if someone needs a gun. I won’t go on a bush trip in grizzly country unless we have one. How people roll matters, if you want to roll with them. As for opinions, that’s what this site is about. Expressing one or asking for them. There’s nothing personal in that 99.9% of the time. It can get kind of hot on topics like this. People have strong opinions on life and death stuff and on personal choice stuff. This topic combines the two and always will."

I agree with the Kid. The suggestion that everyone should be free to do whatever they want whenever they want with immunity from negative feedback has nothing to do with respect, and it's not progress. It creates a society of spoiled brats - self over all.

Hearing that someone thinks you're doing dumb shit is part of life that no one should be protected from. Rather than be offended, take a quick moment to reflect and if you still feel that you are not doing dumb shit, proceed to do your thing because you are blessed with having that choice.

I'm with Speckled on this, it's situational for me.

Most of my trips are solo in Oct, PFD is on anytime I'm in the canoe.
Paddled out 200 yds to a fishing spot once and then realized I forgot it in camp.
A rush of fear went thru me....."That was dumb." I muttered. And it was, not the situation you want to be without.
I'd probably wear it these days on mid-summer trips as well. I usually swim wearing one up there.

But Memorial weekend to Labor Day on the city lakes. I do not wear one The wind is not my friend, so I avoid those days. I'm out there when It's nice out, along with a lot of other folks. Maybe the fact that so many folks are within shouting distance gives me a false set of security? If I think conditions are changing, I'll either slap it on or attach it to my belt loop with a pair of hemo's.

Having said that, I wear it most of the time when fishing from my motorboat during the summer. I'm usually alone, and my odds of falling out of the boat are much greater in my mind than falling out of a canoe. A ton of hours in both types of watercraft, and I've never been waterbound in either. But I know if I do, it'll be a misstep in the boat.

We all weigh the risks one way or another. It's kinda like bicycle helmets, 90% of the time I'm wearing it. MN River trail and Murphy Hanrehan......my helmet is ridiculous overkill on my big melon. Looks like I'm gonna bomb some downhill trail in the Rockies. But I wear it on the paved trails too. Except right out back, live on a park, paved trail 20ft from my yard. With nobody or vehicles around, I do quick spins helmetless most of the time.

I have zero problem with someone asking me to wear one on a trip with them.
And nobody will know I have brought a gun, so it won't be an issue. *smirk*

Northwoodsman: "

I have an inflatable Miss Molly. If I test one kit (cartridge/bobbin) I know that one works, but when I reload it, how will I know the next kit works? I know what you are saying."

This brings up so many questions I almost don’t know where to start,
Where did you get this inflatable Miss Molly? What do you do with it? Is it coast guard approved?

"

Northwoodsman: "

I have an inflatable Miss Molly. If I test one kit (cartridge/bobbin) I know that one works, but when I reload it, how will I know the next kit works? I know what you are saying."


This brings up so many questions I almost don’t know where to start,
Where did you get this inflatable Miss Molly? What do you do with it? Is it coast guard approved?
"

jwettelrin89: "

nctry: "I was like 89... I was like no one is going to tell me what to do... I finally realized the importance of it and although I wasn’t shamed by remarks it was more of a rebel thing. Once you work in any kind of rescue you’ll see it. When you have to bag bodies for senseless deaths... you think about your own actions. These guys don’t mean to shame... seems people are conditioned to feel shame when they don’t like what their hearing. 89... people just care! I feel dumb enough that I hadn’t zipped mine the day I flipped in 2012. People think they can grab and put one on if they flip. I couldn’t even zip mine. I was close to shore when I flipped, minutes later I wasn’t near shore because of current. Fast actions of a friend saved me. When I got to shore I couldn’t stand up right away. I was a strong swimmer yet. At least wear it so we can find your body easier! Look at it as more of a challenge then a shame thing. There really is zero excuse not to!"

Dude - someone called people who don't wear lifejackets stupid. I don't think this forum is a place to insult others you disagree with. I didn't realize that was a hot take. I guess I'm in the minority with that opinion. The pitchforks are out and the people won't stop until they get blood!"

Hey dude, just stating my opinion and experience. Yes your in the minority... I don’t think I called you stupid... your analogies are not really apples to apples. Wearing not just a life jacket but a properly fit and specific to your water sport minimizes your chances of making a solo trip or whitewater paddle unsafe. This is 2022... the advancements in these technologies is to incredible to ignore. If you feel like you say... go for it. You do you... does that make you stupid or your actions stupid? I don’t know and I don’t care. Believe you me... if you get the opportunity to Witness such a death you will think a bit different. You said your peace, we get it... this is a post you might want to scroll by from now on.
Oh, and you inflatable guys? I think your crazy. I tried one of those. When I did flip, I about died trying to blow it up. By then my fingers could barely put the plug back in. Then I couldn’t see where to go over the inflatables horsey head!

I was one of the people that said not wearing a PFD is stupid. And it wasn’t meant to be offensive so I will clarify: Not wearing a PFD is a not wise action.

This is only my opinion and others may disagree with me. I base my opinion on life experiences. As I age, I become aware of many action people take that I deem unwise.

I haven’t even got to the story where I lost a friend on Red lake due to drowning in the 90’s. The community spent 21 days dragging the lake with large treble hooks to try and snag him. That is how they try to catch bodies. I went out a few times myself. It’s a three foot long bar with 3” treble hooks attached to the bar and it is dragged across the bottom in a grid like pattern. I counted 20 boats out there some days.

Anyway, they never hooked him but his body washed ashore three weeks later and we had a closed casket burial. I learned that bodies sink in a lake for a while until they start to decompose then they pop up.

So maybe people see why I am so opinionated.

Ask a paramedics about seatbelts and they will be very opinionated too because they have witnessed things others have not. Not trying to be a Debbie downer but I have strong experienced-based beliefs in some things.

Tom

jwettelrin89: "... guess i'll always be a polarizing figure on this website. ..."

You can choose to do that, if that's what you want.

nooneuno: ""

Northwoodsman: "

I have an inflatable Miss Molly. If I test one kit (cartridge/bobbin) I know that one works, but when I reload it, how will I know the next kit works? I know what you are saying."

This brings up so many questions I almost don’t know where to start,
Where did you get this inflatable Miss Molly? What do you do with it? Is it coast guard approved?
""

I don't use an inflatable, but I do have the same will-it-work concerns with my bear spray and PLB.

Tom, I've also seen boats dragging for a body, both times on the Mississippi River.

The lack of experience and knowledge surprises me. In hindsight I guess it shouldn't.

It sounds like most of you need egress training. A life jacket will not stop cold shock response (gasp reflex). I wear an inflatable when it is appropriate, self-triggered inflate not the automatic water activated. Like when I am in a floatplane or if I am responsible for others. If I had to save someone that has gone under, I don't have time to play with takin a life jacket off.

As far as the inflatables go, yes they are USCG approved and are fairly common these days. It's a zippered vest with a very durable bladder inside. There is a CO2 cartridge that is screwed onto a fitting that arms it. There is a device called a bobbin that holds the valve closed and when it gets wet it dissolves and the CO2 rushes in in a matter of seconds and inflates the bladder. The zipper that holds the two sections of the vest together is a special zipper that pops open with very little pressure. If the bobbin fails to dissolve, or if you want to manually arm it, there it a handle you pull right on the front of the vest that pulls the bobbin out and arms it immediately. Once the vest is inflated it will stay inflated until you unscrew the CO2 cartridge to release the gas, it's a sealed airtight system. These aren't cheap. Depending on the features, they can be $75 - $350.

Another reason for wearing a PFD for me is that's wear my ditch kit items are. My InReach is attached, I have firestarter and waterproof matches in a pocket, I have a first aid kit, an emergency blanket, and a small mirror, water purification tablets, a protein bar, and a multitool. If you capsize are you really going to be in the right mind to tread water, AND find this gear, AND swim to shore? When you get to shore and it's 50° out and you don't have your gear or a way to start a fire, you may not drown, but hypothermia may set in. You are on shore, all your gear is floating out in the lake, are you going to swim out and get it without a PFD?

If you read the actual statistics that Canoeroo attached, I think you would be surprised. I think I counted 6 people drowned by falling off a pontoon, only 7 deaths were from boats. Someone had mentioned above that they don't wear a PFD on a pontoon because they are safer, well not really. People also mentioned that they don't were PFD when they are in close proximity to others. MANY people that drowned were within 10' of other people and those people literally watched them go under but didn't know how to react when they didn't come back up. Perhaps they didn't have a PFD on either, maybe they were stunned by the incident or cold water as well, the water may have been too stained to see through, or they feared getting pulled under by that person and drowning themselves. A surprising # of people in the report drowned in bath tubs, as well as crowded swimming areas, and also hotel pools. Then there were the victims who drowned trying to save others. I urge you to read the report, I think you will be shocked.

This thread isn't about shaming people for not wearing a PFD, I view it as trying to provide reasons that people may not have thought about to wear one. If you aren't paddling with me I don't care if you wear one or not, I won't think any less of you if you don't. At the same time I'm not a real strong swimmer so if I see you drowning I'll do what I can to assist you from a distance, but I'm not getting close enough where you can tip my canoe or pull me under, sorry. Unless you are a family member I'll throw you a floating pack, and extra PFD if I have one, or a rope if I am near shore. I'll use my InReach to notify the authorities and provide coordinates where they can search.

What is egress training?

missmolly: "What is egress training?
"

Try google.

Maiingan: "

missmolly: "What is egress training?
"

Try google. "

Will you be offering egress training? You could Zoom the classes to educate from coast-to-coast. You could offer certifications and maybe even degree programs. Are you accredited?*

*Not a deal breaker, but it will be nice if you are.

Maiingan: "...It sounds like most of you need egress training..."

or just a couple folks need some commonsense awareness training, imo

Maiingan: "

missmolly: "What is egress training?
"

Try google. "

Tried it and found nothing regarding egress training for canoes. I did take this egress training when I was a wildland firefighter in Alaska. Having an egress plan was a constant part of our evey day operations when firefighting. Would you be able to explain how egress training applies to swamping a canoe? It appears to me that this would only be applicable if you are caught/trapped in a canoe.

Egress Training

Why?
This thread reminds me of others on this Board and others that take a left turn. And then crash into a wall. Over and over again. Like Groundhog Day. Semantics.
Seems to me folks like PFDs. That is my conclusion after reading the thread.
Nothing more. Nothing less.
Why it took so many words and disagreement is beyond me.

I don’t know. Just don’t think it’s in the plan for me to cash in my chips drowning after tipping a canoe, or getting eaten by a bear, or having a tree falling on my tent. But of the three I guess the first option is the most likely, I’ve dumped 3 times, but only once over my head and that was a clumsy entry at a put in, Isabella River I think it was, stepped off a rock cross legged, never do that again, and was over my head a foot off, but cursing as loud as I could pretty much got me back on track. I do put it on if I’m on a lake crossing with waves, not that stubborn, or stupid….
Does make sense to put it on while traveling, why not, I always put it back on when I’m portaging a canoe, but just chilling on a calm sunny day catching rays, I might leave it right behind my seat and take my chances. It’s a free country last I heard. Hey man, I beat cancer so I will live my life the way I want to live it, I won’t tell you how to live yours.
Cheers, scat

LindenTree: "

Maiingan: "

missmolly: "What is egress training?
"

once you successfully egress your canoe,you will need to egress the body of water you find yourself in.



Try google. "

Tried it and found nothing regarding egress training for canoes. I did take this egress training when I was a wildland firefighter in Alaska. Having an egress plan was a constant part of our evey day operations when firefighting. Would you be able to explain how egress training applies to swamping a canoe? It appears to me that this would only be applicable if you are caught/trapped in a canoe.


Egress Training "

This is how I personally think about wearing a PFD

Die on the water while wearing pfd=give your family a body to mourn over closure and all that.

Die while not wearing one-family waits until biological activity (rotting) of your body inflates your organs enough for you to surface...morbid....

I wear mine 99% of the time, the 1% I don't zip it shut because I ate too much camp chili....

Apologies to those who find this a sensitive statement.

M

fairmatt: "This is how I personally think about wearing a PFD


Die on the water while wearing pfd=give your family a body to mourn over closure and all that.


Die while not wearing one-family waits until biological activity (rotting) of your body inflates your organs enough for you to surface...morbid....


I wear mine 99% of the time, the 1% I don't zip it shut because I ate too much camp chili....


Apologies to those who find this a sensitive statement.


M"

In the link I posted upthread, the couple that retrieve drowned bodies said that if the lake is deep and cold enough, the body won't bloat and rise. The water is simply too cold for the bacteria.