Hi
I have this Souris River canoe that has been wonderful for many years, but it really needs some attention now. I am going to "refinish the outside" as described on the Souris River website.

The bottom is getting soft. It was done once before about twenty years ago. I have the West System 205 Epoxy and 207 hardener. I am also going to fix this crack on the inside/outside and a crack in the bow (pictured).

I talked to two experienced people and got ideas how to do it, along with the website repair page. Two layers of fiberglass cloth the under layer a little smaller, and folded into the seam in the bow. I plan to clean with with acetone, sand and then acetone again. I know to be careful with the sanding inside because it's kevlar.

Question. Do you think I should use short pieces to make it easer, or do the bow crack with one long piece?

Then, here is the big question. Hubby applied this plastic kayak tape on the outside of the canoe. Why, why, why? So what should I do about that? I am afraid that if I try to remove it, I will really rip the finish off.

If I should remove it, how should I do it and then will I have to do something to clean it before finishing? Or, should I leave it and work around it? I don't like the way it looks.

Any tips on any aspect of this job would be appreciated.

Thanks for your help. I am working on the whole fleet so please see my other upcoming posts.

Photo posting does not seem to work right now. Will try tomorrow.
Catrina

What do you mean by "the bottom is getting soft"? Is it no longer rigid? The hull flexes a lot between the rib panels? If that is the case a layer of epoxy resin is not going to do much. Reinforcement with fabric(fiberglass, kevlar or carbon fiber), preferably on the inside between the ribs might be necessary. That is going to add some considerable weight.

Hi Sedges,
Thanks for your quick reply.
I'm sorry, that was not super clear. They only let me put one picture in the first post. It is ridged. What I mean is that it is a bit fuzzy in some spots. You can see/feel the fabric (just a little bit) through the finish.
I know that a complete coat will add weight.
I tried to add more photos but it's not letting me.
I wish I could show you the two areas (bow and crack on the bottom) as well.
Thanks,
Catrina

I've refinished several SR canoes. Sounds like you've done the research and can handle it. I would remove the "tape" and not work around it. (Is it Keeleazy?) Just make sure to get all adhesive residue off. If you have "fuzzy" spots, it likely means you are down to kevlar cloth in places. After one refinish, and what sounds like years of use, you may have worn through the original outer layer of fg that are on SR boats. Instead of being able to use 80 grit like Red Rock use to say, you may have to tread lightly on your initial sanding so you don't fuzz things up. If you do have fuzziness already, you will get "quilling" after your first epoxy coat. You will have to resand and recoat. I thin my second coat with denatured alcohol (about 15% by volume....mix well). It saves some weight and goes on much easier. I assume you'll be using the foam roller and tipping with foam brush. Watch out for sagging on the side walls after each coat.....keep things thinner once you get down over the chines and don't be afraid to go back over it with the roller a few times and push epoxy back up around the chines off those sidewalls. Even if you avoid sagging, if things get too thick you will get a lot of "orange peel" look that will need tougher sanding before second coat. Not sure about the cracks without pics. 2 fg patches on outside (wets clear....won't see) and a fg or kevlar patch on inside.

Hi cowdoc,
Thanks for your reply.
It was PereGuard kayak repair tape. I went ahead and pulled it off today. It was not as bad as I thought. No worse than duct tape. Did leave a residew. They recomend acetone on the Saurus River website to clean it before and after sanding. Do you think that would work to get the residew off from the tape, as well as a little scraping and sanding? Do I have to avoid getting the acetone in the areas where the fiberglass is worn away?
I also removed most of the old kevlar skid plates. Most came off pretty easy with a screw driver. Just finished reading about how to get those off and I'm heading back down with a putty knife and sharp chistle. Please excuse my spelling. This thing doesn't have a spell check. Any tips for getting those off would be good.
Then after examining the bottom I am thinking of putting cloth over larger areas instead of just patching the small crack. I will have to do that crack on the inside as well.
The bow does have some dents. I'm using g/flex also by West System to fill in the dent in my Bell Solo. Should I use that to fill before putting a new cover on or should I just stick with the 205/207? I have gotten some opinions from a few experts on filling dents. Two suggested thicking it for a filler one said to use little pieces of the fiberglass cloth thread cut up and the other suggested wood flower. The third person recomended doing it in layers and not using filler.
Then what to cover the bow with. A new skid plate or just some fiberglass cloth. I think when I was looking for the cloth online I saw fiberglass skid plate kits.
So you know, I'm not the one that beat this canoe up. I am a wet foot.
Thanks for all the tips on sanding and applying the epoxy. I know all this is going to add weight but what can you do.
Catrina

It is recommended that you use the West System 105 resin. The hardener can be the 207 or 205. The 207 hardener cures the 105 resin to a clear finish. The 207 cures slowly and not very well at low temperatures. The 205 cures the 105 with a light yellow tint. The 205 cures faster and will cure at a bit lower temperatures.

Catrina: "No worse than duct tape. Did leave a residew. They recomend acetone on the Saurus River website to clean it before and after sanding. Do you think that would work to get the residew off from the tape"

I would use lighter fluid (as in Ronsonol or similar). It is pretty good at removing tape residue and does not harm most surfaces. It's gentler than acetone.

Thanks for all your answers,
I got the tape and skid plates off yesterday.
Already have the west system 105/207 which I will be using for most of the repair. So now I just have to decide a few things about the patches.
The skid plate area. Here's what I am considering please let me know your thoughts. I plan to fill in the dents and dings in the bow with g/flex that has a thickener added. Had three suggestions for the thickner; pieces of fiberglass cloth (threads) cut up into small pieces, wood flower and silica powder. I'm leaning twords the silica because I already have some. I used it for a flower drying project. Then put at least 3 layers of fiberglass cloth cut to size over it (smallest first with each layer getting a little bigger) I have two weights 6 and 2 which should I use for that? Then I was reading just now about Dynel cloth it is supposed to be stronger should I consider getting some of that for the top layer? I know it will be a little heavier when wetted and will not be as clear. Not really that concerned about the apperance. I don't want to go with another kevlar skid plate. It didn't work well the first time. Chipped off and came loose in places, heavy, ugly and I think it does affect the handeling of the boat.
The bottom - at first I was just going to patch the small one inch crack with fiberglass cloth but after working on prep I am seeing that the fiberglass is worn away in places exposing the kevlar cloth. I know not to sand this area but should I clean it with acetone like the rest? This is what Souris River suggests but I don't know if it should come in contact with the kevlar. Then I am now considering larger cloth patches in the areas where the cloth is showing. I know it will add weight but whats a person to do? Or should I just put on the epoxy and call it good? If I do the patches should I use the 6 or 2 weight? Should I consider Dynel on the bottom too? I know that this would affect the weight more, or that this overkill. It's also a lot more expensive. I think I might need like 5 sheets. Also, is dynel hard to cut like kevlar?
Thanks so much,
Catrina

You might want to contact the people at West Systems (Gougeon Brothers) directly about filling the “dents”. They have a section on fairing (leveling spots) on their website. Contact info:

“Technical Advisors at Gougeon Brothers, Inc. are available to answer your questions about WEST SYSTEM® Epoxy Products and help you with your project. The fastest way to get an answer from us is to call and ask to speak to our Technical Advisors toll-free within the United States at 866-937-8797, Monday to Friday, 9:00 am to 5:00 pm ET. From outside the U.S.A, call 1-989-684-7286. Our experienced, full-time Tech Staff is here to help with your questions about epoxy.”

I saw the picture on Pnet. Oofda!

You seem to have done more than the usual due diligence and if you got the skid plates off, I'm sure you'll figure the rest out no problem. Don't worry about acetone affecting the cloth. It will evaporate.

The only thing I'd interject for the fuzzy part is you can also spread epoxy with an old credit card. In my very limited experience, a roller raises the fuzzies in a thick layer while scraping it with a cc card lays it down with a much thinner coat - or two.

In any case, good luck! No worries. I doubt you could possibly make it look any worse. wink

Thanks again for all of your great advice.
Great idea to use the West System help desk. I didn't think of that. I will ask them about the use of g/flex with 105/207.
And thanks for letting me know about that I can use the acetone lightly over the kevlar. Using the credit card is a great idea too.
I spent a good deal of time cleaning up and preping the boat yesterday and alas it seems that this boat was held together by dirt and grime, lol. Light sanding has exposed more stress fractures they are in the middle of the boat going cross ways. I posted this quetion on another forum and someone there suggested that I let it die a respectable death. He went on to tell me about how his boat that was in similar condition simply folded in half one day.
I think I have decided that I am still going to fix it but that it will no longer be our primary tripping barge. I already have most of the supplies. This way I can apply the larger sheets of fabric to the bottom and not have to worry that it will be too heavy to carry. We will just use it around the lakes at home when we have extra family or friends that don't have a boat.
We got this boat when we had kids and needed an extra large boat and even without the repairs it is a little heavy for old people. Now that it's just the two of us we will be in the market for something like the Northstar single/double.
Running out of room in the shed with our growing fleet.
So, one more thing, now that we are retiring this boat we do have a trip comming up. If we don't find a new boat before the trip we will be taking the bell wildfire solo and the pacboat kayak. My solo is also being repaired so if you are so inclined please help with my questions on that. I will add my questions about the kayak too on the thread that I made for that.
Catrina

Hi,
I did some procrastinating and went on some trips. I did get the rest of the prep done and now I’m faceing the last stretch of weather where it will be warm enough. So, in doing some further research some have suggested that it would be better to put the reinforcing fiberglass on the inside rather than the outside so as not to interupt the flow of water around it as you paddle (I reread the whole string and saw that SEDGES answered that question in the first reply - thank you I missed that). Any more thoughts on inside vs. outside would be appreciated. We got a new Wenonna and they now have internal skid plates, so I’m thinking inside would be better and would still add strength. What do you think? How much strength would internal fiberglass sheeting really add? Should I stll put a small patch on the outside where the actual crack is? Should I go up the sides a little with the sheeting (inside)? It occured to me that it may be stronger if I run the fiber of the fabric the opposite way from the acutal construction of the canoe. What I am thinking is to put them like diamonds on the floor of the canoe and line them up, cutting them off where they go too far up the sides. What do you think? If I do this should I overlap them just a little or have them just meet?
Thanks so much for your help.
Catrina

I have a Souris River 17 that has 2 cracks that need to be repaired. I am not confident in my own abilities to fix this. I am just worried Ill screw up - even though the Red Rock videos make it seem easy.

I am located in Somerset, WI and wondering if anyone is close by that would be willing to help me out with a canoe repair? Not asking for you to do the work, just look at my damage and walk me though the repair process.

Thanks,

I have a Souris River 17 that has 2 cracks that need to be repaired. I am not confident in my own abilities to fix this. I am just worried Ill screw up - even though the Red Rock videos make it seem easy.

I am located in Somerset, WI and wondering if anyone is close by that would be willing to help me out with a canoe repair? Not asking for you to do the work, just look at my damage and walk me though the repair process.

Thanks,

Big red,
I'm in Stillwater and can help if you'd like. Kent