Hey Folks-
I'm just beginning the trip planning for a possible Wabakimi trip in 2023. We are bringing most of our own gear, but want to do a fly-in and have a place to stay the nights before and after our trip.

So far, the two outfitters that I have found that can help us out are Wabakimi Canoeing and Fishing Outfitters and Mattice Lake Outfitters. As far as I can tell, Wabakimi Outfitters is going to be about $500/person more than Mattice! What am I missing? Has anyone else found this to be true? I am used to the Boundary Waters outfitters where everyone is pretty much the same price.

There is also Rusty Meyers on the west side of the park.
I have seen his outpost on Wilkie Lake.
He has several in the park.

I have heard others say Bruce Hyer's outfit is a little more expensive, but we used them in 2011 and were very happy with the service.

I am not sure if Mattice actually has fly-in cabins in the park.
Hyer's company has at least one cabin just south of the railroad.
I think they might have another cabin somewhere up in the NW part of the park.
That might account for a higher price.

We're not looking to stay in an outpost cabin, although that would be fantastic.

I have also heard that Bruce is more expensive, but I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why he's THAT much more expensive? That's why I feel like I'm missing something. I get that he's THE guy for all things Wabakimi, and given the opportunity I'd love to buy him a beer and listen to his stories...but that's a lot of beer!

So I was figuring the same thing. What I hadn’t taken into account though was the camping fees per day when I was adding up my numbers. It’s $15 dollars per day each adult. When I realized I hadn’t put that in against the Mattice lake costs it evened out more. The Wabikimi Outiftters price includes the camping fees and park entry fees.

Wabakimi outfitters was still a good bit more though. In the end I decided to go with Bruce at Wabakimi outfitters since they print out maps and give you route notes at a much higher level than as far as I can tell the others in the area do. I’m going to be doing my first whitewater with my son and from a safety standpoint more detailed trip notes and route plan was worth the extra cost.

If you are doing all lake and flat water then Mattice is just fine and honestly they were great to talk to and gave me pricing on everything no problem. If you go this route I’d recommend Friends of Wabakimi map books for the route. I’d also recommend Wabakimi Maps. He can put together laminated route map sheets for you that I think are great. I bought both of these for my trip next year already.

Also keep in mind PP the website we go to figure out routes and get mileage has gps downloads from Friends of Wabakimi for Wabakimi. Has portage start and endpoints. Also campsites in a separate download. That has been super helpful planning. I like to have every bit of information I can get when planning. Helps immensely when plans change out on trip which often times they do.

Ryan

jcavenagh: "There is also Rusty Meyers on the west side of the park. I have seen his outpost on Wilkie Lake. He has several in the park.

I have heard others say Bruce Hyer's outfit is a little more expensive, but we used them in 2011 and were very happy with the service.

I am not sure if Mattice actually has fly-in cabins in the park.
Hyer's company has at least one cabin just south of the railroad.
I think they might have another cabin somewhere up in the NW part of the park.
That might account for a higher price."

The other cabin is on Windfall.

I used Bruce this summer . I stayed at his cabin on Windfall so its not really an apples to apples comparison to what you want to do. I try to not worry about price on these trips. I don't know about your situation, but I can only take off two weeks in the summer. That time is precious to me. I am not going to risk something getting screwed up over a few hundred bucks. Peace of mind has value to me. Not that I have heard bad things about the other outfitters, I haven't.

I used Bruce this summer on a last minute plan b trip. I didn't look shop around, so have no comparison, but setting aside the fee for staying and eating at the lodge, and the daily permit fee, I was somewhat shocked at what I paid for maps and a drop and pick within fairly close distance of Bruce's headquarters (I didn't keep the broken out expense sheet so I can't parce out that portion from the rest at the moment).

I understand the value of his years of campsite/portage marking, but I still thought it was pricey for some copier printed 8 1/2 x 11 maps and a shuttle drop and pick.

Anyway, I was mostly happy with the service but I will definitely shop around if I go back to Wabakimi. I don't place that much value on having marked campsites and other such map intel. Plus, with the Friends of Wabakimi maps, there's pretty good coverage and info out there. Not to mention the fact that there are rocky outcrops damn near eveywhere on which to camp.....

Anyway, that's my two cents.

I was in Armstrong about a month ago not for a trip but for a gathering of some WP friends. We gathered at Bruce’s during the two days we met but my buddy and I parked his RV at Mattice Lake Outfitters without charge. Don Elliot the owner would not accept any $ from us. But we took all of the WP trips out of Mattice Lake for 15 years so he made plenty of $ off the Project. When you think of Mattice Lake Outfitters you need to keep in mind that his business is almost entirely fly-in fishing parties which stay at his outpost cabins. The service he provides to canoeists is mostly bush plane flights. Uncle Phil always considered Elliot to be fair in his pricing. But canoeists are really a side business for him.

Bruce Hyer is very knowledgeable about the park or at least the routes he puts his clients on. He is definitely aiming his business at canoeists. Through the years I have heard some complaints about his pricing. My first encounter with Bruce was at Canoecopia probably about 20 years ago. In talking to him about trips in Wabakimi he told me “all I need is your credit card and I can tell you everything you need to know.” It kind of put me off so I continued to try to gather info on Wabakimi on my own. It wasn’t until 2007 when Uncle Phil of the Wabakimi Project showed up at Canoecopia that I finally made my first trip there. For the next 12 years I went on 23 weeks of trips with the Project. I also volunteered to staff the WP booth at several different outdoor shows through the years. On two occasions I personally sold WP map route books to the Hyers, the last time at the Midwest Mountaineering Show where I sold his wife the complete set of 5 map books. So I think the efforts of the WP allowed Hyer to expand his route knowledge and benefit his business.

With the reasonablely priced resources available from the Friends of Wabakimi you should be able put together your own trips. Several of the people posting on this thread have a lot of trip knowledge (HighnDry and jcavenaugh) and they seem to find ways into the park through driving into access points.

Both Mattice Lake and Wabakimi Canoeing can provide pre/post trip accommodations on their property as well as permits and licenses. The only pricing difference should be the lodging. Have fun planning your trip and enjoy the trip itself. You can spent many years exploring the vast Wabakimi area.

Wow, Thanks everyone. This has all been very helpful.

I had been emailing back and forth a bit with Bruce, gathering some information. He asked if I had a good overview map of Wabakimi so that we could discuss route options. I didn't so I bought one from him for $20 (USD, shipped). It came earlier this week and I'd hardly call it something you could use for route planning. It's not even of the entire park. No portages or campsites are marked on it. Aside from the park boundary, lakes, the rail road, and roads in and out of Armstrong, the only thing on it is the location of his outposts.

Later that day I became a member of the Friends of Wabakimi and ordered their Canoe Routes Guidebook and Canoe Routes Planning Map. Once we have a better idea for a route, I'll buy the associated volumes as well. Happy to support such an awesome effort!

I'm hoping that with the resources that the FOW provide, we can figure out a route and we'll rely on Mattice to get us there.

Now, if anyone has route suggestions for a 7ish day trip, I'd love to hear them. We're not whitewater enthusiasts so that's not a trip priority. Solitude and walleyes are high up there.

Actually, I think of myself as pretty much a noob.
I have done a few west side trips, but never completed my original planned route.
I am just too damn cheap to pay for outfitters and so I looked for drive up access back is 2015. I found a few spots and have gathered the info as it came in.

I became disappointed with BWCA after it got so crowded.
I looked for a place that would be more like the BW as I remembered it from the early days of my canoe camping.
Wabakimi fits the bill.
Yes there are float planes flying over and boats stashed at several portages.
And yes, there fishing out posts.
But overall I like Wabakimi because it is a remote wilderness that a canoeist has to work to get to.

That's exactly why I'm pushing our group away from the boundary waters. It became overly crowded during the pandemic with people that clearly have no idea what they are doing. After a mid September trip 2 years ago where we had to race another group across the lake to find an open campsite, I lost my enthusiasm for the Boundary Waters.

I too would normally be looking for the cheapest way to do this, but 3 of us in the group turn 40 in 2023, so we are spoiling ourselves a bit this time.

Wetlander: "Wow, Thanks everyone. This has all been very helpful.
...
Now, if anyone has route suggestions for a 7ish day trip, I'd love to hear them. We're not whitewater enthusiasts so that's not a trip priority. Solitude and walleyes are high up there. "

Maybe fly into Burntrock and paddle out to Little Caribou.
Park vehicle at Mattice base in Armstrong.
Then have your vehicle dropped off on your exit day at the Little Caribou bridge.

If you’re near the metro area, FoW will have a table at the Midwest Mountaineering Outdoor Expo Nov 18-20. Nice folks who can help answer your questions. Vern will be giving a couple presentations as well. Details to follow!

I was definitely planning on chatting up FOW at some of the spring events. Heck I joined a few weeks ago when I ordered the online versions of route maps 1 and 3.

Ryan

I have noticed on several YouTube videos from Wabakimi that they have gotten notifications on weather from Wabakimi outfitters. I usually pull detailed weather forecasts the ones you pay for on my Garmin. Once to sometimes twice a day. Lost Lakes was getting specific information on storms multiple times in his 11 day solo video.

I’ve always felt that the Garmin forecasts just don’t give the detail I want. Also frankly last year a 10% chance of rain meant it was raining. So getting more detailed information will be pretty nice and worth a little higher cost for me. Just thought I’d point it out since this is definitely a factor in this debate.

Ryan

jillpine: "If you’re near the metro area, FoW will have a table at the Midwest Mountaineering Outdoor Expo Nov 18-20. Nice folks who can help answer your questions. Vern will be giving a couple presentations as well. Details to follow! "

I saw that! I’ll probably run over there and see what they have to say. Hard to pass up that opportunity so close to home.

I totally missed it was the Fall expo. I’ll definitely make a point of attending that now. I live in the metro so it’s as easy as it can be for me to go!

Ryan

Gaidin53: "I totally missed it was the Fall expo. I’ll definitely make a point of attending that now. I live in the metro so it’s as easy as it can be for me to go!


Ryan"

Excellent! You will find a group of wide-ranging Wabakimi-experienced folks who will provide helpful and constructive answers and guidance for a safe, productive Wabakimi experience - whether it is fully outfitted, self-outfitted or a hybrid. In exchange, we encourage you to consider joining Friends of Wabakimi. See you there!

I used Bruce a couple years ago and his comment "give me your credit card and I'll tell you all you want to know" is the truth. I get it, he isn't in the business of spending time helping out people who don't use his services.

You can get maps from several sources and save some money, but if you want more recent and knowledgeable information about whether routes and portages are open and doable, then you might want to get Bruce's help. Otherwise you might find yourself having to bushwhack through unusable portages. Which is fun but might not be your thing!

Anyway, he arranged a fly in/paddle out Burntrock to Little Caribou trip for us, that jc mentioned. Considering that he flew us out with two solo canoes, the price was excellent. His lodging before and after was awesome, and knowing our vehicle was safe at his place was a plus as well. Fishing was awesome, never saw a canoe, saw one fishing boat on Smoothrock until we exited the park on Caribou.

I'm hoping to do a train in/paddle out trip this spring with a tandem canoe instead of two solos. Haven't been able to catch Bruce via phone this week.

Joe

Bruce shuts his Armstrong operation down in the fall and spends the winter at his house in Thunder Bay. Maybe his website has his Thunder Bay number.

joewildlife: "I used Bruce a couple years ago and his comment "give me your credit card and I'll tell you all you want to know" is the truth. I get it, he isn't in the business of spending time helping out people who don't use his services.

You can get maps from several sources and save some money, but if you want more recent and knowledgeable information about whether routes and portages are open and doable, then you might want to get Bruce's help. Otherwise you might find yourself having to bushwhack through unusable portages. Which is fun but might not be your thing!
"

The unknown is part of the fun! Prepared but flexible. The current plan is to enter at Tamarack and fly-out of Whitewater with Mattice. Don has been great to work with on trip planning.

Still trying to figure out timing with everyone's schedules.

Cool beans! We paddled across the top and down the western arm of Smoothrock in 2011. Looks like like you will paddle the whole length from bottom to top.
There are some really nice campsites on Smoothrock.
It will be a great trip!

I spoke with Bruce a couple days ago and confirmed a train-in to Allenwater bridge, paddle out to Tamarack trip over 14 days. Really looking forward to it!

Joe