Looking for advice on purchasing Souris River or a Northstar in a 17’ tandem. Any advice appreciated. Any good deals out there? Looking to buy new. I have an older 17’6” Bell and really like it.

I've had a Souris River Quetico 17 for about twelve years and my buddy has owned a Northstar Northwind 17 for several years. We have both paddled them both on different occasions. No matter what anyone says, the SR is a tougher boat, and significantly so. It has shocked me the impacts and abuse it has endured.

There was a problem a few years back when they experimented with a different resin, but I believe that is in the past. Their epoxy resin is very strong. It is a bit slower then the NW, but has a little more initial stability. It has grommets front and back for painters. You can remove a thwart and paddle it solo from the front seat as it has 2" rocker front and rear. The Northstar has 2.5" bow and 1.5" stern.

They are both beasts in the wind and waves. The NW actual measured weight is about 6# lighter(40 and 46#). The NW is stiffer through the floor and feels "sportier". The NW is a few inches longer. The NW has a bit of tumblehome. They are both very stable and very similar dimensions.

If I were buying new today, I would buy a Northwind 17. I am not as hard on boats as I used to be and I like the weight savings and better performance. The SR does have some really good features, though. Don't know much about their other models.

I also own a NS NW Solo (just weighed it at 25.5#), they make nice boats, but they are very lightweight and more fragile these days.

I bought a used Souris River Q17 from an outfitter eleven years ago and it takes a beating and keeps going. I don't treat it much different than aluminum now. Every two or three years I sand it and put on a coat of Epifanes spar varnish. And I appreciate the very high initial stability, and sea worthiness in really rough water.

I also have a Souris River Tranquility which is equally robust and stable in white caps.

I'm sure Northstar folks will be along in a little while.

I’ve owned a Souris River Quetico 18.5 and now own a Northstar Northwind 17.

I think mgraber and billconnor are very spot on with the Souris River reviews/comparison.

You already own a Bell 17’6" which essentially is the Northwind 17 now. After owning both, If you really like it, then I think you will like the Northwind 17 more than the Souris River. I loved my Souris River…I used it hard for 18 years and it still was pretty new looking and never needed external skid plates. It definitely feels more stable.

But…if you feel the Bell/Northwind feels stable you will like how the Northwind paddles better than the Souris River. It just glides better. Turns better (I did have a longer Souris River so subjective). I really like my NW 17.

Either canoe is great, though both have minor differences that are plus or minus. Depends on really how you personally feel than anything else. Best advice I’ve ever heard is paddle them if you can find one.

T

Yeah, you really need to get in both boats, preferably loaded and unloaded, one man's stable or fast or maneuverable isn't necessarily another's. Either boat will make almost anyone happy unless they are always in a hurry and are experienced canoeists. Both boats will last many years if stored indoors and taken decent care of.

I know some people prefer the front seat leg room in the Q17. I don't know what the NW17 is like.

billconner: "I know some people prefer the front seat leg room in the Q17. I don't know what the NW17 is like. "

Yes the NW 17 does have less leg room than the Souris River. It isn’t significant like a Wenonah MN II or III though. It’s not a deal breaker for us like the Wenonah but there is a difference…according to my wife :)

T

I haven't paddled either of the two new boats, but have paddled the older Q17 and a number of the older Bell's (Northstar, Northwind, Northwoods). Both are great boats. Souris is a little more of tank...in theory (Hull Design) the souris will be slightly more stable and slightly slower.

It's all relative - both boats will fill plenty stable, will feel like you have plenty of room in the bow and stern. I personally have always liked the feel of the Bell's. Tracking, speed and nimbleness have always just felt a little better to me than the Souris. Stability about the same, but i never pushed either from a stability standpoint.

I have owned a North Star north wind 17 for 10 years. I like it a lot because it glides well, is very stable (to me) and does well in wind. I got the kev light version back in 2014, but now wish I had bought the black lite which I think is tougher. The latter also weighs more. One reason I bought a North star over a SR was because North Star provided a full wood trim, which I think is aesthetically pleasing in contrast to alum gunwales. This is preferential and does require more work to maintain. Back in 2014 the North Stars were about 300-400 less expensive than the SRs even with the wood trim so price for me was a concern. Don't know if this price gap still exists. So, very pleased with my NW17 and find it an excellent tripping canoe.

I have owned a North Star north wind 17 for 10 years. I like it a lot because it glides well, is very stable (to me) and does well in wind. I got the kev light version back in 2014, but now wish I had bought the black lite which I think is tougher. The latter also weighs more. One reason I bought a North star over a SR was because North Star provided a full wood trim, which I think is aesthetically pleasing in contrast to alum gunwales. This is preferential and does require more work to maintain. Back in 2014 the North Stars were about 300-400 less expensive than the SRs even with the wood trim so price for me was a concern. Don't know if this price gap still exists. So, very pleased with my NW17 and find it an excellent tripping canoe.

Northstar will be quicker and have better seating for paddling. The difference in epoxy versus vinyl ester resin is basically marketing hyperbole. Yes epoxy is "harder" but it is insignificant, especially when one considers the "hardness" of the Canadian shield. Main difference is the lateral foam structure of the SR vs the linear foam structure of the Northstar (and virtually every other flatwater hull)- the linear foam makes for a much stiffer hull, stem to stern- better for tracking and transfer of the energy of the paddler. The lateral structure is more forgiving for whitewater but prone to oil caning and delamination .

Moonpath: "Don't know if this price gap still exists. So, very pleased with my NW17 and find it an excellent tripping canoe. "

The Northstar Northwind 17 brand new is slightly more than a Souris River now. I don't think enough to make a difference in my opinion. Depends on what layups or colors you want as well.

T

I will second the comments regarding SR boats being tough. I participated in 12 years of Wabakimi Project trips during which we used SR tandem’s exclusively. I own and use a Wenonah tandem as does my brother and the SR boats in Kevlar are definitely tougher than anything else I have used. Uncle Phil used his SR boats 8-12 weeks each season and kept them for many years. His last pair of SR boats were purchased used from a summer camp, they were built in in the early 2000’s as I recall, and were still going strong when the Wabakimi Project ended in September 2018. They had been factory reconditioned once. My understanding is that our long time outfitter, Don Elliot of Mattice Lake Outfittes in Armstrong ON, purchased them after Project ended and uses them in his outfitting business.

I've paddled the SR Q17 on several 8-9 day trips and have taken my NS B17 (BlackLite) on 31 days of BWCA trips (over the last 3 years) with a lot of deep interior action. Lots of rocky landings, some overgrown portages, and a slight lack of care (call it a sense of expedience) when trying to get loaded and shoved off at windy landings. The Q17 was never that fast of a boat but I did enjoy my time paddling it.

The B17 has many scratches, some superficial, more that are somewhat deep... and the most recent trip down and back up the Horse River this past August definitely beat it up pretty good. I took a small chunk of resin out of the stern when sliding on a rock that we got stuck on when trying to shove off, on its maiden trip... and then on the Horse we definitely rubbed it a little deep in some spots where the cloth is barely exposed. I have internal skid plates on mine which is probably a good thing due to the occasional tendency to rub when landing on shore or shoving off. I will probably try to do 1 more season in the B17 before getting it recoated, though I should probably touch up the small spots where I can see/feel cloth. At no point, however, have I ever worried about a crack in the hull. It's been absolutely solid in that regard.

So are Northstar boats more fragile? I can't really say because I haven't gotten to personally observe the cumulative damage over several years to know if the Q17 would be more durable. But I know that my B17 has taken a bit of a beating, nothing truly abusive like dropping it on rocks or dragging it over downed logs with gear in it, but I'm overall pleased with its ability to sustain contact with sharp rocks. And overall, it's been a great boat - not the fastest, because it's super wide, but it hauls a ton of gear and has oceans of leg room in the bow and stern.

I have a SR Q17 that gets abused quite a bit. It was an outfitter boat that I picked up after 5 seasons, it had some cracked ribs and needed a recoat of epoxy, but that was easy and it hasn't skipped a beat since.

I also have a Northstar NW Solo in Blacklite, which I love to death and I'm not totally gentle with either, but it does seem more fragile in terms of impact. It is a very rigid canoe compared to the SR, and that likely has to do with the foam core design of Northstar versus the rib system of SR. Even the regular kevlar Northstars seem very rigid compared to SRs. This can be a good thing and a bad thing depending on your use case.

Outfitter canoes may be one of the best deals going if the price is right. They are kind of like rescue dogs. Once in a loving home and with a little remediation they will not be abused and can deliver a long life of joy.

AlexanderSupertramp: "
I also have a Northstar NW Solo in Blacklite, which I love to death and I'm not totally gentle with either, but it does seem more fragile in terms of impact. It is a very rigid canoe compared to the SR, and that likely has to do with the foam core design of Northstar versus the rib system of SR. Even the regular kevlar Northstars seem very rigid compared to SRs. This can be a good thing and a bad thing depending on your use case."

Graphite or carbon layups are noticeably stiffer and more abrasion resistant than kevlar but the decreased flex makes them brittle- impact injury comes easier.

Argo: "Outfitter canoes may be one of the best deals going if the price is right. They are kind of like rescue dogs. Once in a loving home and with a little remediation they will not be abused and can deliver a long life of joy."

I'll second Argo's thoughts. As much as I would love to buy new canoes, all of mine have been purchased from outfitters around end of season at incredible deals (relative to new). My NW17 was new the year I bought it from an outfitter and retired with a couple dozen others for a bargain and was in great shape. My NW Solo was an outfitter model that I decided to refinish even though it didn't necessarily need it and looks pretty darn good. If it's a reasonable drive for you to hit up outfitters in the region, it's at least worth investigating. I've never owned a SR but have rented for weeklong trips and prefer the NW line for my needs/comfort/preference. Either way, these are both great canoes and you'll be happy.

Argo: "Outfitter canoes may be one of the best deals going if the price is right. They are kind of like rescue dogs. Once in a loving home and with a little remediation they will not be abused and can deliver a long life of joy."

Great response and comparison to a rescue dog! I have given my (Rockwood Lodge purchased) Northstar Northwind 17 a ton of love and used an auto buffer on the entire thing to a like-new shine as well as re-staining the thwart with a black ash colored stain. That thing was beaming with pride as I stood back and looked at it!

scottiebaldwin: "

Argo: "Outfitter canoes may be one of the best deals going if the price is right. They are kind of like rescue dogs. Once in a loving home and with a little remediation they will not be abused and can deliver a long life of joy."

Great response and comparison to a rescue dog! I have given my (Rockwood Lodge purchased) Northstar Northwind 17 a ton of love and used an auto buffer on the entire thing to a like-new shine as well as re-staining the thwart with a black ash colored stain. That thing was beaming with pride as I stood back and looked at it!"

I know the feeling. Refinished my outfitter-purchased, scratched up SR 17 to a "like new" condition and was stunned at the difference between before and after. The canoe will now be extremely lightly used compared to its former home.

Okay you guys aren’t wrong about saving money on outfitter canoes, they are high quality and a good buy…but the contrarian in me is I am more in line with canoeist Rob Kesselring on ultralight canoeing…

Outfitter canoes are usually heavier than specs, have unnecessary skid plates (hate them) adding even more weight, and when you refinish it adds weight. Is it enough to matter for most…obviously not. But for some it could matter.

Ounces equal pounds…my approach isn’t for everyone I recognize that. Just saying when you buy an outfitter canoe it isn’t the exact same version as what you get buying new or used from a private sale.

T

True for my Q17 from CCO but not so for my Tranquility from Gunflint.

If integrity of manufacturer matters, go with the Northstar. After the crazy SR posts during the pandemic, I would not purchase anything from them-and I had a Quetico 17 for over 20 years.

I agree with the Souris River posts so that is one of the main reasons I bought a new Quetico 17 from them this year. Seeing one being badly abused in Wabakimi last year was another main reason I went with them.

A couple of other excellent options to consider: Northstar Seliga and Nova Craft Prospector (16 or 17). I own a NS Seliga in starlight (Piragis outfitter purchase) and a NC Prospector 17 in royalex (primarily for river/c1-low c3 whitewater trips in Canada but it has been used in the BWCAW on a trip or two on big lakes). Both are fantastic to paddle (loaded or unloaded). Both offer excellent initial and overall stability. Both are more traditional fully symmetrical designs with slightly deeper ends and 2.5 inches of rocker. I know some will say these design are comparative barges, are not as fast, and not as efficient. My extensive experience in these boats is that they are NOT barges, do NOT get noticeably blown around in the wind (and I’ve been in a lot of big wind in them, especially the NC Prospector), are plenty efficient, and are “fast” enough. I greatly appreciate the extra depth on days with a strong tail wind. And I GREATLY appreciate the increased manueverability these models provide in waves and when approaching rocky landings.

Many years ago I did a trip or two in a Bell NW 17 and liked it. But I readily prefer the Seliga or the NC Prospector over the NW 17.

As far as other reasons to buy from any particular company, I greatly appreciate Northstar’s clear stance on protecting the BWCAW.