DUCK HUNTERS AND WOLF

This would be extremely nerve racking and scary.

Yikes! Hopefully the rest of them will now have a healthy fear of humans.

Didn't read the whole thing due to not subscribing, but wow.

I wonder what the wolves thought?

It's in Wisconsin.

I am highly skeptical... but not curious enough to read further than the free portion of the article.

OCDave: "I am highly skeptical... but not curious enough to read further than the free portion of the article.
"

The rest of us learned something from reading the account of an independent witness. As I suspected from the first account, these wolves were very hungry:

“‘About the time we saw the wolf on the riverbed, the group of young hunters was surrounded by wolves about 300 yards east of us,’ Lund said. ‘Five wolves surrounded the 19-year-old and the two younger hunters he brought out to experience the thrill of duck hunting.’

“‘One wolf was 12 feet behind their blind and the other was 15 feet down the shoreline. The pack was barking and growling at the young hunters, despite the older hunter yelling at them. When the wolf on the shoreline lunged at them, the 19-year-old shot that wolf in the face. The wolf jumped around for a while, then plunged into the water. When it died, another wolf grabbed the dead wolf by the neck and tried to drag it away. The shooter immediately contacted the DNR to report the incident.’

“Lund believes the brazen wolf behavior was brought on by poor feeding conditions for wolves over the winter. He stated he had even seen places where wolves were digging up snails. The pack that approached the younger hunters approached from downwind, with the hunters’ scent hitting them in the face.

“‘Those wolves knew those kids were there. But they’re hungry. I normally find about six deer kills in the spring, but I didn’t find a single one this spring,’ Lund said. ‘To add to the calorie deficit in this area, the Rainbow Flowage has been drawn down 7 feet. The flowage tributary in this area is restricted to a meandering channel a foot deep in most places. Beaver huts are high and dry. The beavers have abandoned them and retreated to deeper water. Without deer or beaver in their diet, wolves have resorted to trying to catch ducks and geese that come up on the exposed river bed to feed on smart weed that’s growing there now,’ Lund said.”



Wisconsin duck hunter kills Oneida County wolf in self defense

gravelroad: "

OCDave: "I am highly skeptical... but not curious enough to read further than the free portion of the article.
"

“‘About the time we saw the wolf on the riverbed, the group of young hunters was surrounded by wolves about 300 yards east of us,’ Lund said. ‘Five wolves surrounded the 19-year-old and the two younger hunters he brought out to experience the thrill of duck hunting.’


"

I'm also skeptical from the get go on this. How can you be surrounded by wolves when they're all east of you (i.e. only in one direction).

BdubyaCA: "

gravelroad: "

OCDave: "I am highly skeptical... but not curious enough to read further than the free portion of the article.
"

“‘About the time we saw the wolf on the riverbed, the group of young hunters was surrounded by wolves about 300 yards east of us,’ Lund said. ‘Five wolves surrounded the 19-year-old and the two younger hunters he brought out to experience the thrill of duck hunting.’

"

I'm also skeptical from the get go on this. How can you be surrounded by wolves when they're all east of you (i.e. only in one direction)."

The article is rather vague but I read it as two separate groups of people 300 feet apart -- an older hunter (hunters?) who saw the wolves surrounding the group of young hunters (19 yo + 2 younger kids)

prettypaddle: "

BdubyaCA: "

gravelroad: "

OCDave: "I am highly skeptical... but not curious enough to read further than the free portion of the article. "

“‘About the time we saw the wolf on the riverbed, the group of young hunters was surrounded by wolves about 300 yards east of us,’ Lund said. ‘Five wolves surrounded the 19-year-old and the two younger hunters he brought out to experience the thrill of duck hunting.’ "

I'm also skeptical from the get go on this. How can you be surrounded by wolves when they're all east of you (i.e. only in one direction)."

The article is rather vague but I read it as two separate groups of people 300 feet apart -- an older hunter (hunters?) who saw the wolves surrounding the group of young hunters (19 yo + 2 younger kids)"

You have to keep in mind that this is the press talking up the story to sell it to the public. Surrounded just sounds better for a story like this.

I get the skepticism, but if they were able to kill the wolf with one shot of bird shot, then it must have been close enough for about anyone to feel threatened.

I read another article and it sounded like the other hunter was a guide for another group and the kids took the spot he wanted, and had previously scouted, so him and his group moved 300 yards (or was it feet?) down the shoreline. It read like the 19 yo and kids only saw 2 wolves, but the guide saw more from his vantage point. Seemed genuine to me but it's possible they were working together.

Here's a complete article: https://rivernewsonline.com/news/2024/oct/01/wolf-killed-by-duck-hunter-on-opening-day/

This story does sound like the wolves were exhibiting predatory behavior towards the hunters.

About the time we saw the wolf on the riverbed, the group of young hunters was surrounded by wolves about 300 yards east of us,’ Lund said.

This seems pretty clear to me. The young hunters that shot the wolf were 300 yards to the East of Lund.

Like other complex stories in the press, it’s hard to know what really happened based on the facts so far. I’m glad it didn’t end with someone hurt or killed and that the authorities found killing the wolf to be self defense.

It's natural for the person who shot the wolf to state that there are “too many wolves” and that “something needs to be done.” I don’t agree (but that’s easy for me to say from my recliner). To me, the most interesting thing about the story so far is the article quoting the man who was nearby as believing the wolves were starving based on his non-scientific observations of the area, recent conditions and that there are many wolves, "up to four packs," thought to be around the area. This implied the wolves were predatory (hunting the duck hunters as food). In fact, documented cases of wolves actually threatening humans in the past 20 years are almost always based on wolf “habituation,” not predation. Wolves mostly threaten humans when they are around them enough not to fear them and then perceive them as a threat, often to their food source (a fresh kill or a food-rich place).

I'm not saying Lund, the quoted guy, is wrong. I just don't think his observations can lead anyone to determine that these wolves couldn't find enough food and therefore were preying on the hunters. I'm no more of an authority than Lund, of course. Still, IMO, the whole "too many wolves = no deer = humans being hunted" speculation just plays into ancient fears and a justification to kill most, if not all, wolves.

Two humans were killed by wolves in North America between 2002 and 2022. One was a man out walking near a northern Canadian mine’s garbage dump where wolves often found food and often saw humans. In the other, wolves killed a woman out jogging alone in SE Alaska. While that case was determined to be predatory, wolves were often seen in the area (and often saw humans) around the local fish processing facilities and fishing camps. Even in that case, the report stated the well-known pack included six healthy wolves and 2 that may have been sick or malnourished.

To me, the biggest take away from the duck hunter story is that threatening wolf-human events are likely to keep increasing as we encounter each other more often. I don’t know how we make sure those encounters always end well, for us and them, but I hate to think that the only answer is that there are "too many wolves" and that "something must be done about them."

The bottom line is that these threatening encounters are exceedingly rare. I find it funny how many people assess risk. What is the likelihood of being killed by ANY wild critter when compared the risk of dying while driving to places like the BWCAW, Yellowstone, Glacier, etc? Or of getting killed by lightning or drowning?

I was on the Rainbow Flowage that day, actually I spent friday night sleeping in my canoe (best way to guarantee your spot for the duck opener) and here is my $.02 cents.
I had lived in Lake Tomahawk, a few miles from the flowage, for many years and hunted, fished and hiked it year round hundreds of times which is why I go back to it for the start of duck season.
The water level was down but that is not unusual in the fall (it was completely full, little or no walkable shore line, most of the summer.) The deer population imo is up over the last several years, lots of turkeys, and even a few grouse, can't speak to the snowshoe hare numbers. There has never been a lot of beaver activity on the flowage, not sure why. In other words pretty much normal conditions for that area that time of year.
Were the wolves predatory? Starving? I can't think of a good reason why. Did the hunters have a dog with them? A dog would attract the wolves attention and not in a good way. Were the wolves curious and this was mistaken for aggression? Questions but not too many answers.
There are many people who feel that wolves should never have been reintroduced and that they should be hunted to extinction again. "THERE KILLING ALL THE DEER!!!!" (you know, the ones they wanted to kill themself.) Is this attitude a factor? Possible.
As for me, I don't think wolves are a problem and am always cautious when outdoors or at wallmart (more "wildlife" then in any woods) and will continue to sleep under the stars when ever I can.

KawnipiKid: "Like other complex stories in the press, it’s hard to know what really happened based on the facts so far. I’m glad it didn’t end with someone hurt or killed and that the authorities found killing the wolf to be self defense.

It's natural for the person who shot the wolf to state that there are “too many wolves” and that “something needs to be done.” I don’t agree (but that’s easy for me to say from my recliner). To me, the most interesting thing about the story so far is the article quoting the man who was nearby as believing the wolves were starving based on his non-scientific observations of the area, recent conditions and that there are many wolves, "up to four packs," thought to be around the area. This implied the wolves were predatory (hunting the duck hunters as food). In fact, documented cases of wolves actually threatening humans in the past 20 years are almost always based on wolf “habituation,” not predation. Wolves mostly threaten humans when they are around them enough not to fear them and then perceive them as a threat, often to their food source (a fresh kill or a food-rich place).

I'm not saying Lund, the quoted guy, is wrong. I just don't think his observations can lead anyone to determine that these wolves couldn't find enough food and therefore were preying on the hunters. I'm no more of an authority than Lund, of course. Still, IMO, the whole "too many wolves = no deer = humans being hunted" speculation just plays into ancient fears and a justification to kill most, if not all, wolves.

Two humans were killed by wolves in North America between 2002 and 2022. One was a man out walking near a northern Canadian mine’s garbage dump where wolves often found food and often saw humans. In the other, wolves killed a woman out jogging alone in SE Alaska. While that case was determined to be predatory, wolves were often seen in the area (and often saw humans) around the local fish processing facilities and fishing camps. Even in that case, the report stated the well-known pack included six healthy wolves and 2 that may have been sick or malnourished.

To me, the biggest take away from the duck hunter story is that threatening wolf-human events are likely to keep increasing as we encounter each other more often. I don’t know how we make sure those encounters always end well, for us and them, but I hate to think that the only answer is that there are "too many wolves" and that "something must be done about them."
"

I wasn't there so I can't question the reality but will say after shooting the wolf it finally plunges into the water and then another wolf pulls it out of the water after the shooting. Normal wolf would of hightailed it out of there. Yes I wonder, but it is what it is and I guess I have to believe them.
The whole pack acted abnormal during the whole thing. Did they have a dog with the wolves keyed on?

KawnipiKid: "

It's natural for the person who shot the wolf to state that there are “too many wolves” and that “something needs to be done.” I don’t agree ."
"

A Gal I know Sherri lives near Babbitt, her dog "Knokie" was killed yesterday in broad daylight at 11am by a wolf. She said it was the biggest wolf she ever saw. Her family thinks there are too many wolves. Also, yesterday a wolf was trying to get at a neighbor's dogs in a pen. It was chased away. It should have been shot. I can name more than a dozen attacks like this in the area.

The Minnesota DNR and wildlife services kill almost 200 wolves a year. I would guess the DNR would feel those wolves were more than they wanted. Wolves kill more cattle ever year in Minnesota then I can count. I see wolves all the time. I seldom see moose anymore. There were days 30 years ago I could go out in the woods and find moose. Those are days gone by.



This is the wolf shot by the kids in Wisconsin. Hungry? Who know? If it wasn't hungry; it was stupid and now it is dead. The wolves I see are twice its size.

In Minnesota the government kills more wolves than all other states combined. They say there are way too many wolves in the state.

Too many wolves?? I guess it depends on where you live. Just don't give us a double standard. A few years ago, there was a pack just north of Minneapolis. That pack was killed faster than Hunter could do a line of coke.

Findian: "

KawnipiKid: "


It's natural for the person who shot the wolf to state that there are “too many wolves” and that “something needs to be done.” I don’t agree ."
"

A Gal I know Sherri lives near Babbitt, her dog "Knokie" was killed yesterday in broad daylight at 11am by a wolf. She said it was the biggest wolf she ever saw. Her family thinks there are too many wolves. Also, yesterday a wolf was trying to get at a neighbor's dogs in a pen. It was chased away. It should have been shot. I can name more than a dozen attacks like this in the area.

The Minnesota DNR and wildlife services kill almost 200 wolves a year. I would guess the DNR would feel those wolves were more than they wanted. Wolves kill more cattle ever year in Minnesota then I can count. I see wolves all the time. I seldom see moose anymore. There were days 30 years ago I could go out in the woods and find moose. Those are days gone by.




This is the wolf shot by the kids in Wisconsin. Hungry? Who know? If it wasn't hungry; it was stupid and now it is dead. The wolves I see are twice its size.

In Minnesota the government kills more wolves than all other states combined. They say there are way too many wolves in the state.

Too many wolves?? I guess it depends on where you live. Just don't give us a double standard. A few years ago, there was a pack just north of Minneapolis. That pack was killed faster than Hunter could do a line of coke. "

I said I don't agree. That's my opinion. My main point was that, in my opinion backed by facts I've found, wolves tend to approach rather than flee from humans due to habituation, not predation.

The last year I can find for verified wolf MN kill numbers is 2022. 142 wolves were killed the government. They were killed by the feds, USDA wildlife services, not MN DNR. I didn't know MN has said there are too many wolves and can't find anything that says that. The MN DNR wolf management plan states that the healthy number is 2,200-3,000 in the state. The estimated total number of wolves in MN was 2,919 in mid winter 2022-23, according to the MN DNR. I have no opinion about the DNR management plan.

I try to clearly state fact as fact and my opinion as opinion. Where folks live, hunt, fish and camp doesn't make their opinions a double standard. That's my opinion.

KawnipiKid thanks for correcting me. Most of the wolves "euthanized", (a cleaner term) in Minnesota are done by the United States Department of Agriculture. The DNR was maybe more the mouthpiece for the "USDA" locally. The good old DNR keeping us up to date on what the USDA is doing.

KawnipiKid: "

Findian: "

KawnipiKid: "



It's natural for the person who shot the wolf to state that there are “too many wolves” and that “something needs to be done.” I don’t agree ."
"

A Gal I know Sherri lives near Babbitt, her dog "Knokie" was killed yesterday in broad daylight at 11am by a wolf. She said it was the biggest wolf she ever saw. Her family thinks there are too many wolves. Also, yesterday a wolf was trying to get at a neighbor's dogs in a pen. It was chased away. It should have been shot. I can name more than a dozen attacks like this in the area.


The Minnesota DNR and wildlife services kill almost 200 wolves a year. I would guess the DNR would feel those wolves were more than they wanted. Wolves kill more cattle ever year in Minnesota then I can count. I see wolves all the time. I seldom see moose anymore. There were days 30 years ago I could go out in the woods and find moose. Those are days gone by.






This is the wolf shot by the kids in Wisconsin. Hungry? Who know? If it wasn't hungry; it was stupid and now it is dead. The wolves I see are twice its size.


In Minnesota the government kills more wolves than all other states combined. They say there are way too many wolves in the state.


Too many wolves?? I guess it depends on where you live. Just don't give us a double standard. A few years ago, there was a pack just north of Minneapolis. That pack was killed faster than Hunter could do a line of coke. "

I said I don't agree. That's my opinion. My main point was that, in my opinion backed by facts I've found, wolves tend to approach rather than flee from humans due to habituation, not predation.


The last year I can find for verified wolf MN kill numbers is 2022. 142 wolves were killed the government. They were killed by the feds, USDA wildlife services, not MN DNR. I didn't know MN has said there are too many wolves and can't find anything that says that. The MN DNR wolf management plan states that the healthy number is 2,200-3,000 in the state. The estimated total number of wolves in MN was 2,919 in mid winter 2022-23, according to the MN DNR. I have no opinion about the DNR management plan.


I try to clearly state fact as fact and my opinion as opinion. Where folks live, hunt, fish and camp doesn't make their opinions a double standard. That's my opinion. "

The goal by the Feds and Mn was 1,350 wolves. Now were at 2600-3000 wolves. I think with deer populations 10% of what they were 20 years, ago, the wolf population has declined some. From Brainerd we have probably as many wolves as up north due to a few more deer around. I have seen a decline in wolves temporarily and a few more coyotes which disappeared when wolves are high.
As mentioned the Fed. Dept. of Ag. are the ones who are killing the wolves with Federal trappers. They are very efficient, and wolves are apparently easy to trap for them.
Also as studies have shown wolves will prey on beaver very heavily and estimates by studies show wolves killing approx.. 42% of beaver present.
I have noticed numerous ponds by Longville now have zero beaver and pre wolf coming back around 1991-5 this area had the highest beaver populations in the state.

Findian: "

KawnipiKid: "


It's natural for the person who shot the wolf to state that there are “too many wolves” and that “something needs to be done.” I don’t agree ."
"

A Gal I know Sherri lives near Babbitt, her dog "Knokie" was killed yesterday in broad daylight at 11am by a wolf. She said it was the biggest wolf she ever saw. Her family thinks there are too many wolves. Also, yesterday a wolf was trying to get at a neighbor's dogs in a pen. It was chased away. It should have been shot. I can name more than a dozen attacks like this in the area.

The Minnesota DNR and wildlife services kill almost 200 wolves a year. I would guess the DNR would feel those wolves were more than they wanted. Wolves kill more cattle ever year in Minnesota then I can count. I see wolves all the time. I seldom see moose anymore. There were days 30 years ago I could go out in the woods and find moose. Those are days gone by.




This is the wolf shot by the kids in Wisconsin. Hungry? Who know? If it wasn't hungry; it was stupid and now it is dead. The wolves I see are twice its size.

In Minnesota the government kills more wolves than all other states combined. They say there are way too many wolves in the state.

Too many wolves?? I guess it depends on where you live. Just don't give us a double standard. A few years ago, there was a pack just north of Minneapolis. That pack was killed faster than Hunter could do a line of coke. "

The moose pop in MN did tank, and this decline is attributed to primarily brain worm (which deer can tolerate) and flukes. Correlation is not causation. Taking a moose is no small feat for wolves. Lots has been written on this, given the longest running predator/prey study I know of (that is, wolves of Isle Royale). Their success rate isn't great, and on Isle Royale the wolves are limited to moose and beaver almost exclusively. In the Voyageur wolf ecosystem area, there is a high density of wolves/wolf packs, and what's interesting is the deer pop there is not high, relatively speaking. Beaver are a mainstay of wolf diet in that area, and thus we can speculate, elsewhere as well. Most Great Lakes Area Timber Wolf management plans (MN, WI, MI, Ontario) are moving away from a 'target population' -- those have been pretty arbitrary and meaningless. The Timber Wolf Alliance just held their symposium (last week), which I attended. It was session after session of researchers presenting on their wolf research. It was super interesting, and I encourage anyone interested in wolves/wolf research in our area to attend. It's only every four years (next in 2028). In 2019, wolves in MN killed 74 calves and 11 cows. A 1,600 acres ranch in northern MN installed wolf-proof fencing, and invested in a couple of LGDs, and has had zero predation since.

chessie: "

Findian: "

KawnipiKid: "



It's natural for the person who shot the wolf to state that there are “too many wolves” and that “something needs to be done.” I don’t agree ."
"

A Gal I know Sherri lives near Babbitt, her dog "Knokie" was killed yesterday in broad daylight at 11am by a wolf. She said it was the biggest wolf she ever saw. Her family thinks there are too many wolves. Also, yesterday a wolf was trying to get at a neighbor's dogs in a pen. It was chased away. It should have been shot. I can name more than a dozen attacks like this in the area.


The Minnesota DNR and wildlife services kill almost 200 wolves a year. I would guess the DNR would feel those wolves were more than they wanted. Wolves kill more cattle ever year in Minnesota then I can count. I see wolves all the time. I seldom see moose anymore. There were days 30 years ago I could go out in the woods and find moose. Those are days gone by.






This is the wolf shot by the kids in Wisconsin. Hungry? Who know? If it wasn't hungry; it was stupid and now it is dead. The wolves I see are twice its size.


In Minnesota the government kills more wolves than all other states combined. They say there are way too many wolves in the state.


Too many wolves?? I guess it depends on where you live. Just don't give us a double standard. A few years ago, there was a pack just north of Minneapolis. That pack was killed faster than Hunter could do a line of coke. "

The moose pop in MN did tank, and this decline is attributed to primarily brain worm (which deer can tolerate) and flukes. Correlation is not causation. Taking a moose is no small feat for wolves. Lots has been written on this, given the longest running predator/prey study I know of (that is, wolves of Isle Royale). Their success rate isn't great, and on Isle Royale the wolves are limited to moose and beaver almost exclusively. In the Voyageur wolf ecosystem area, there is a high density of wolves/wolf packs, and what's interesting is the deer pop there is not high, relatively speaking. Beaver are a mainstay of wolf diet in that area, and thus we can speculate, elsewhere as well. Most Great Lakes Area Timber Wolf management plans (MN, WI, MI, Ontario) are moving away from a 'target population' -- those have been pretty arbitrary and meaningless. The Timber Wolf Alliance just held their symposium (last week), which I attended. It was session after session of researchers presenting on their wolf research. It was super interesting, and I encourage anyone interested in wolves/wolf research in our area to attend. It's only every four years (next in 2028). In 2019, wolves in MN killed 74 calves and 11 cows. A 1,600 acres ranch in northern MN installed wolf-proof fencing, and invested in a couple of LGDs, and has had zero predation since. "

Data shows many years and more recent study by The Pigeon River Tribal band and the MN DNR wolves were taking 50% of the Moose calves. This matches many other studies. This is really unsustainable. Yes, it is like a piranha taking bites out of something. It's a combination of things, this is cumulative. Major cause of death in Maine and New Hampshire is ticks. I have seen moose up the Gunflint and Quetico being scale white (no hair) due to rubbing to get rid of ticks. Moose than succumb to diseases.
Also, deer studies-wolf studies have shown one spring populations of deer get below 13 deer/sq. mile pre fawn wolves can keep deer from coming back in numbers.
Dlf studies done South of Longville and tagged and radio collared deer some years doe loss reached just under 40-50% all from wolves-mainly the winter.

This same area use to have 15.5 deer/sq. mile deer hunter harvested(number one harvest per sq. mile in the state). Harvested by hunters(pre wolf buildup around 1994 and wolves were well established by year 2000). Now hunter harvest is 1.8 per sq. mile and ranks 56th in the state for harvest per sq. mile in that area.

Wolves belong and I did a research literature wolf project way back in 1970 and I pushed for protection before the Endangered species Act existed. But now is time to delist which the Mn DNR and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Interior has said for 16 years.

let s not forget that bears are also a culprit of taking deer fawns.
and where i live the coyotes are everywhere, often hear them howling at night.
there are deer missing.....

Mocha: "let s not forget that bears are also a culprit of taking deer fawns.
and where i live the coyotes are everywhere, often hear them howling at night.
there are deer missing....."

It seems like in your area coyotes are a problem down south, not much up north, wolves and coyotes don't get along.

Mocha: "let s not forget that bears are also a culprit of taking deer fawns.
and where i live the coyotes are everywhere, often hear them howling at night.
there are deer missing....."

Predation was consistently the leading cause of calf mortality during the study. During 2013?14 and 2014?15, wolf and black bear predation accounted for 65 percent and 16 percent of calf mortality, respectively. During 2015?16 and 2016?17, 69 percent and 15 percent of the calf mortality was attributable to wolves and bears.

Pretty simple without calves the moose have no future. I don't know what we can do about brain worm or ticks. FYI I also don't want the wolves gone and have never talked to anyone that said"kill em all".

As Pinetree pointed out the "Tribes" and their biologist have been working on saving the moose. Dr. Seth Moore has given me more good first hand info than anyone else I have talked with. Seth is the biologist for Grand Portage Band of Lake Superior Chippewa. The research on Isle Royale has gone bad.

For those against killing any wolves, how many is enough.

Pinetree: "

chessie: "

Findian: "

KawnipiKid: "



It's natural for the person who shot the wolf to state that there are “too many wolves” and that “something needs to be done.” I don’t agree ."
"

A Gal I know Sherri lives near Babbitt, her dog "Knokie" was killed yesterday in broad daylight at 11am by a wolf. She said it was the biggest wolf she ever saw. Her family thinks there are too many wolves. Also, yesterday a wolf was trying to get at a neighbor's dogs in a pen. It was chased away. It should have been shot. I can name more than a dozen attacks like this in the area.



The Minnesota DNR and wildlife services kill almost 200 wolves a year. I would guess the DNR would feel those wolves were more than they wanted. Wolves kill more cattle ever year in Minnesota then I can count. I see wolves all the time. I seldom see moose anymore. There were days 30 years ago I could go out in the woods and find moose. Those are days gone by.







This is the wolf shot by the kids in Wisconsin. Hungry? Who know? If it wasn't hungry; it was stupid and now it is dead. The wolves I see are twice its size.



In Minnesota the government kills more wolves than all other states combined. They say there are way too many wolves in the state.



Too many wolves?? I guess it depends on where you live. Just don't give us a double standard. A few years ago, there was a pack just north of Minneapolis. That pack was killed faster than Hunter could do a line of coke. "

The moose pop in MN did tank, and this decline is attributed to primarily brain worm (which deer can tolerate) and flukes. Correlation is not causation. Taking a moose is no small feat for wolves. Lots has been written on this, given the longest running predator/prey study I know of (that is, wolves of Isle Royale). Their success rate isn't great, and on Isle Royale the wolves are limited to moose and beaver almost exclusively. In the Voyageur wolf ecosystem area, there is a high density of wolves/wolf packs, and what's interesting is the deer pop there is not high, relatively speaking. Beaver are a mainstay of wolf diet in that area, and thus we can speculate, elsewhere as well. Most Great Lakes Area Timber Wolf management plans (MN, WI, MI, Ontario) are moving away from a 'target population' -- those have been pretty arbitrary and meaningless. The Timber Wolf Alliance just held their symposium (last week), which I attended. It was session after session of researchers presenting on their wolf research. It was super interesting, and I encourage anyone interested in wolves/wolf research in our area to attend. It's only every four years (next in 2028). In 2019, wolves in MN killed 74 calves and 11 cows. A 1,600 acres ranch in northern MN installed wolf-proof fencing, and invested in a couple of LGDs, and has had zero predation since. "

Data shows many years and more recent study by The Pigeon River Tribal band and the MN DNR wolves were taking 50% of the Moose calves. This matches many other studies. This is really unsustainable. Yes, it is like a piranha taking bites out of something. It's a combination of things, this is cumulative. Major cause of death in Maine and New Hampshire is ticks. I have seen moose up the Gunflint and Quetico being scale white (no hair) due to rubbing to get rid of ticks. Moose than succumb to diseases.
Also, deer studies-wolf studies have shown one spring populations of deer get below 13 deer/sq. mile pre fawn wolves can keep deer from coming back in numbers.
Dlf studies done South of Longville and tagged and radio collared deer some years doe loss reached just under 40-50% all from wolves-mainly the winter.


This same area use to have 15.5 deer/sq. mile deer hunter harvested(number one harvest per sq. mile in the state). Harvested by hunters(pre wolf buildup around 1994 and wolves were well established by year 2000). Now hunter harvest is 1.8 per sq. mile and ranks 56th in the state for harvest per sq. mile in that area.


Wolves belong and I did a research literature wolf project way back in 1970 and I pushed for protection before the Endangered species Act existed. But now is time to delist which the Mn DNR and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Interior has said for 16 years."

I agree there is high predation in that area. I shouldn't have made such a global statement. The predation on moose and/or moose decline, varies a lot by region. The loss of moose in NW MN is largely due to parasites/disease as opposed to wolves, and due to our changed climate, moose are not likely to ever reinhabit that area in numbers. There are times we need to prop up a predator (wolves) to keep an ungulate population in check, for the good of the ecosystem. There are times we need to manage/reduce a predator's numbers for the good of an ungulate population and the ecosystem, s/as the caribou of British Columbia (interestingly, plenty of moose, thus lots of wolves, and caribou are a secondary food source, but scarce and declining). [the reasons for the dynamic in BC are beyond the scope here/and probably beyond acceptable word count, but to point out that humans are intricately involved] Two things and I'll bow out: (1) for an interesting and informative read: Restoring the Balance: What wolves tell us about our relationship with nature, by John Vucetich, and (2) the International Wolf Center contacted the WI DNR about the story that started this thread, and the DNR indicates that its investigation finds the accounting of what happened to be largely accurate. One explanation for the wolves' behavior is "The most likely scenario is that this location was near a rendezvous site for that particular pack of wolves and they were defending pups that may have been in the area but again, that is extremely difficult to verify but is a possible cause of the wolf's proximity and behavior towards humans."

It is interesting when we had the big fires in the BWCA I said maybe that would take care of and kill the host snail in the brain worms' larvae stage. I was scoffed at.
Now studies by biologist's these last few years are saying in the big burns, brain worm infection dropped drastically. At least a short-term solution until snails repopulates.

I have been close to wolves at lot in far northern MN. This incident seems to be all about immature youth and their lack of experience. I MEAN THE THE TEEN LIKE WOLVES, not the young men!