How many are taking the bear proof vaults/containers that are outlined now? How many just do it as they always have?

For larger groups, it seems like you'd have to have several to store everything they are recommending.

Last year my buddy and I still brought the 30L blue barrel (always will) but I also brought along an Ursack Major XL in case we needed to show it to anyone. I bring the barrel in a CCS Deluxe Insulated food pack which also holds our kitchen. It's the perfect size and I've found this to be the most comfortable and efficient setup.

I started using the bear canisters in early 2000's and have continued to use them and Ursacks ever since. So I do it as I always have except the first 1-2 trips.

I've used Bear Vaults and Ursacks since 2018.

I started using Ursacks when I started solo trips because I know I stink at hanging. On a solo I can fit everything in 1 Ursack (8 days).

Once I introduced my husband to Ursacks a couple years ago, he wanted to switch for our family trips as well. For family trips, we bring 1 bear canister that holds liquid items and then Ursacks for all dry goods.

Ten day trip with 3 adults we brought 4 Ursacks (but one wasn't very full) and 1 bear canister.

So no change in our behavior because of the rule change. We were already in compliance.

I switched from blue barrel to bear vault 10+ years ago. I only need 1 because my trips are either solo with the dog, or tandem with one of my kids. A couple of times tandem it hasn’t all fit so I put day 1’s lunch, snacks, and dinner in a small dry bag which worked well because everything that needed to be stashed the 1st night was in the vault.

If I ever do a longer tandem trip I’ll probably add an ursack.

So the new order didn't change anything for me.

Still using the blue barrel. Most often take week-long trips with 4 people so the 60L has been a good size for all food and camp kitchen items. I don’t often frequent burn areas so hanging hasn’t been an issue yet. I made a rope and pulley system that takes a lot of the chore out of hanging.

Nothing changed for me either. I’ve been using Bear Vaults for my food and Ursacks for my dogs’ food the past several years.

I've been using the Bear Vault BV-500's for the last couple of years. I hated hanging the food pack. Every time I got it up, my kids wanted a snack lol. It has taught me to condense my food supply. We still eat like kings though.

Our groups are all base campers and typically on Red Rock Lake, which has a very short portage from Saganaga.

We switched to BV500's in the groups (we have 3-4 groups that go up each fall) for a few years. After the new announcment, we tried bear certified coolers (Lifetime 55) last year. The concensus was that yes, they are heavy. But losing the BV 500's and having the ability to keep things frozen/cool for a week long trip. . . and not having to hang. . .was worth it.

We will probably continue wiht the Lifetime 55's.

I have been using the bear vaults for quite some time,so the order didn't change anything for me. I am going to use a ursack for dry goods this year, and pack any wet food and fragile equipment in a bear vault. I am making this investment to take weight out of my pack. I don't understand why you need to put the ursack in a barrel.

So my original question was based on me not fully understanding the new requirement. We have been using a big kitty litter bucket inside a pack for portaging and storing our food. Now that I have researched the new requirement, we are going to continue the way we've been doing it because we do hang our food pack. I have a blue barrel also that had a lid and locking ring that also fits inside one of my packs but not as nice as the kitty liter bucket does.

Ahahn366: "I have been using the bear vaults for quite some time,so the order didn't change anything for me. I am going to use a ursack for dry goods this year, and pack any wet food and fragile equipment in a bear vault. I am making this investment to take weight out of my pack. I don't understand why you need to put the ursack in a barrel."

You don't need to do that . . .

I also don't see the point of putting a Ursack in a blue barrel. Just use the Ursack. Time to "cut the cord" on the blue barrels!

ockycamper: "I also don't see the point of putting a Ursack in a blue barrel. Just use the Ursack


time to "cut the cord" on the blue barrels!"

I think you'd see the point if a bear ever tried to get into it.

I love my Ursack. It's the lightest, most convenient, and most cost effective of the approved containers IMO. But I'm also fully aware that a bear can easily ruin everything in it. I probably won't ever use it by itself for trips where I'm more than a day's paddle from an exit.

Putting it inside a barrel makes it much harder for the bear to crush, poke holes in, and slobber on your food. Though I suppose it would make it easier for it to carry it off, especially if you leave it in a harness.

I used to just stash which I learned in a book which was probably by Cliff Jacobson, then I went to BearVaults, now I added an Ursack. Either can be breached by a determined bear but I think the chances of that happening to both are very remote. Typically the smellier and liquid stuff goes in the Bear Vault(s) and the dry and less smelly stuff goes in the Ursack.

plmn: "
I used to just stash which I learned in a book which was probably by Cliff Jacobson, "

I'm not doubting you, and I'm certainly not doubting Cliff Jacobson, but I can never wrap my head around the stash your food approach. with a bear's remarkable sense of smell, there's no place you can hide your food that a bear can't find it. Is this approach simply about keeping a bear out of your campsite if it does come after your food?
thanks

Go to Canoecopia and ask Cliff.

I've not changed - still a hanger. CCS deluxe food pack with their stuff sacks. Rope and pulleys - usually rigged 3:1. I know - confirmation bias - still hasn't failed me - BWCA or Philmont, where hanging is mandatory.

If it ever fails, I think I'll add an electric fence. Under 4 pounds. IGBC certified.

I have observed that reports of bears getting food seem to be when food is left at a site while campers out fishing or whatever. I have never left food in an unattended camp.

fence

I’m with Bill C. On this. If I must stow my food from a bear, I hang. Those blue BV things are not shaped in a way that you can put them in a pack and be efficient with your space.

I never got the attraction of the blue barrels. We divide up the BV500's one per paddler and they either just carry it or put it in a pack. No one wants to haul around a fully loaded blue barrel. . . .particularly the 60 litre ones

For those using Ursacks have you considered that if I bear does have a go at it your trip’s done?

Sure the bear might not eat your food but it will be destroyed and drenched in bear saliva.

The food could be mush but you can eat mush. I doubt it would be drenched in saliva. Our food is vacuum sealed and in an opsak inside the Ursack. The final point for me is that we carry multiple Ursacks and distribute them around our campsite. It is unlikely that a bear will find and crush them all. Overall, the weight savings over a canister make it worth it to me.

RTurner: "

plmn: "
I used to just stash which I learned in a book which was probably by Cliff Jacobson, "

I'm not doubting you, and I'm certainly not doubting Cliff Jacobson, but I can never wrap my head around the stash your food approach. with a bear's remarkable sense of smell, there's no place you can hide your food that a bear can't find it. Is this approach simply about keeping a bear out of your campsite if it does come after your food?
thanks"

I was very surprised when my outfitter for my first Quetico trip recommended the "stash the blue barrel approach". As he explained it to me: It's important to consider the wilderness you are traveling through. A lightly traveled wilderness area that is predominantly visit by folks with backcountry experience (practicing LNT) is going to be a very different bear situation from a wilderness area with much higher visitor numbers and a higher percentage of inexperienced (i.e. messy) campers.

In other words, what works in Quetico or Woodland Caribou will not necessarily work well in the BWs or Rocky Mountain National Park. It's all a matter of how habituated the bears are or are not. There is not one perfect bear solution for all environments, other than always keeping a clean campsite and LNT.

RTurner: "

plmn: "
I used to just stash which I learned in a book which was probably by Cliff Jacobson, "

I'm not doubting you, and I'm certainly not doubting Cliff Jacobson, but I can never wrap my head around the stash your food approach. with a bear's remarkable sense of smell, there's no place you can hide your food that a bear can't find it. Is this approach simply about keeping a bear out of your campsite if it does come after your food?
thanks"

As I understand it, it's because bears get habituated to go to the campsites to find food. That's where most of the smells linger. Bears are typically going to be following the most obvious path to the most obvious places rather than doing a methodical search of the woods. Hangs are usually going to be done in the most obvious spots and once a bear finds those spots they are going to keep coming back to them.

I've mentioned on here before that I don't know if stashing actually worked for me or if there simply weren't any bears around. Ursacks and Bear Vaults also fail which is why the instructions say to store them away from camp. Some claim that hangs are the most breached method which would make sense since most are not properly done. Others claim that the blue barrels are better than Bear Vaults because they seal in the smells better. There's valid arguments to be made for many different methods and I think doing them correctly and keeping a clean camp is probably going to do the most to improve your odds.

I feel the regulations are geared towards protecting the lowest common denominator. As in, approved containers are still likely to succeed in preventing bears from getting food when the people using them are careless.

ockycamper: "Our groups are all base campers and typically on Red Rock Lake, which has a very short portage from Saganaga.


We switched to BV500's in the groups (we have 3-4 groups that go up each fall) for a few years. After the new announcment, we tried bear certified coolers (Lifetime 55) last year. The concensus was that yes, they are heavy. But losing the BV 500's and having the ability to keep things frozen/cool for a week long trip. . . and not having to hang. . .was worth it.


We will probably continue wiht the Lifetime 55's."

I've camped on Red Rock, Alpine and Seagull with Yeti coolers. They are a bit of a pain to portage but not too bad. They can easily be portaged once or twice a trip. It is nice to have another seat and they 100% bear proof and they are large.

RTurner: "

plmn: "
I used to just stash which I learned in a book which was probably by Cliff Jacobson, "

I'm not doubting you, and I'm certainly not doubting Cliff Jacobson, but I can never wrap my head around the stash your food approach. with a bear's remarkable sense of smell, there's no place you can hide your food that a bear can't find it. Is this approach simply about keeping a bear out of your campsite if it does come after your food?
thanks"

Because when you hang you are essentially increasing the distance your smell travels. You could be bringing a bear in from further away.

Stashed food is lower to the ground, harder to smell. A bear has a great sense of smell but if there is no wind, for stashed food they have to be right on top of it to smell it. If it is off the main trail they will never encounter your food. If there is a wind they can only smell down wind. They could stand right by your food and not know it if the wind is blowing the right/wrong direction. Watch a hunting dog sometime... While your food hanging in the tree is a beacon "HERE I AM" they don't need to smell it they can see it!

Bears that typically come to camps are habituated. Only certain areas are suitable for hanging. They beeline right to that area from previous experience where they were rewarded and if they don't find anything they take off. They don't mill around camp smelling around for food. They check your gear and packs and the hanging tree. Then leave.

That in a nutshell is the reason for the stashing method.
A moot point for the BWCAW now but that's the reason it works...unfortunately what some did was nothing just leave smelly food all over camp. That's not a stash method. But ruined it as an option.

To answer other's questions Why use a blue barrel with an ursack: The smell!!! A camping blue barrel is water tight and air tight. BV 500's and ursacks (even vacuum sealed food) are not. I use Ursacks and BV 500's. I haven't used them in a blue barrel as I am an ounce counter--it's too much weight. I am considering it though because although I don't have the nose of a bear... whenever i portage my ursack or BV 500 I can smell food. (I vacuum seal everything twice) they smell like a BEAR BEACON compared to the old days of Blue Barrels. If my human nose can smell it, so can a bear. I want to keep my smells down. I've done informal experiments with my dog and he can smell food in my BV500 (they don't advertise them as waterproof/smell proof in their defense) and Ursacks when food is sealed and he can smell it. He can't in the a blue barrel. There is a huge difference.

The whole purpose of combatting bears isn't having a device they can't get into...the most important thing is to make sure they aren't attracted to your camp.

With that said...no method is infallible. You can find plenty of videos of bears getting the best hung packs, Blue barrels broken into, BV 500's chewed up, Ursacks destroyed...

If someone wants to use an Ursack in a Blue barrel I can't for the life of me think why it's such a big deal to some? Especially those who continue to hang when up to half of the BWCAW you can't even hang to the requirements anymore due to wind and fire damage???

T

I've been using the Bear Vaults and an Ursak/Opsak for a while now, so no major changes. I may add another Ursack at some point as I like the ability to fit things in around it in a pack as opposed to the BV500.

Just to clarify-

It’s not a big deal to me if they do or don’t. The question was why do you need to - you don’t as in it’s not required. But it’s not prohibited either. Personally I don’t care if they do put it in a blue barrel. Others opinions may vary.

ockycamper: "I also don't see the point of putting a Ursack in a blue barrel. Just use the Ursack. Time to "cut the cord" on the blue barrels!"

It sounds like you had already "cut the cord" on them before ever using one.

Nor have I ever used a blue barrel. As far as those that ever have or still do, especially if they're using them in a manner that's consistant with BWCA rules, I don't care in the least--I'm not on their trip.

I have a BearVault BV500-Journey. It is carried under the brain of my pack (the brain of my pack converts to a day bag for in town which is why I bring it) with only that day's food and other items, like my water filter's cleaning tools, rain poncho, extra dry socks in a ziplock because eww worn socks loose in my food canister, paper map, cook set but not the fuel (that goes in a pocket), sunscreen (again in a ziplock incase it leaks), etc that I might need during that day and don't want to dig through my pack for.

The rest of my food goes in my pack during the day in separate smellproof bags.

I've squeezed 10 days of food into it by repackaging almost everything, and leaving some things like wrapped candies and flavour/coffee/sugar packets loose to fill the gaps. It definitely tested my Tetris skills!

At night, my food, other smellables, and the ziplock of food related trash all fit without worry.

It is worth the weight for the convenience of not having to precisely place everything in it (when only carrying 3-7 days of food), and it's a taller camp seat than the smaller BVs.

I carry it like this during the day for a couple of reasons; the food inside the pack during the day for balance, so there is not as much weight in the top part of my pack.

The other is so I don't have to dig it out of my pack if I want to use it as a quick seat for meals or other types of breaks; those 12.7 inches make a big difference to my knees when sitting because they can be slightly bent vs the full drop to the ground which makes getting back up, for me anyway, a lot more difficult.

BearVaults come in 4 sizes; BV500-Journey 7 days of food, BV475-Trek 5-6 days of food, BV450-Jaunt 3-4 days of food, BV425-Sprint 1-2 days of food