Which is best - Ally or Pakboats? I've seen this question come up on the internet in various places. Both Pakboats and Ally canoes are hard to buy in North America with dealers disappearing a few years ago. Shopping at a European dealer, I found an excellent comparison that I thought I should share for future reference to people trying to decide between these two (translated by my web browser)...

Posted on November 25, 2020 by Frank van Zwol — Leave a comment
Ally canoe versus Pakcanoe

The Ally folding canoes from Bergans and the Pakcanoes from Pakboats are closely related in construction. A logical question is which is the better of the two. A simple answer to that is not possible. I have years of experience with both brands and by describing the differences here you can make a good choice yourself.

The skin

The skin of both the Ally and the Pakboat is made of polyester reinforced PVC cloth, also known as truck tarpaulin or Bisonyl. Very strong, UV resistant and wear-resistant. You will need a knife or other sharp object to get a hole in it. There is little difference to discover here.

The foam mat, fixed or loose

The main difference is that the foam mat with the Ally is loose in the skin, clamped under the frame and with the Pakcanoe the foam mat is held in place by two straps. The disadvantage of the loose mat is that it takes some extra time and attention to center the mat properly during assembly. A crooked Ally mat can be damaged when placing the splats.

With the Ally, the foam mat is a bit thicker, which is pleasant for your knees when you are sailing on your knees. For the Pakcanoes there are optional knee pads that you can use as extra padding.

Air chambers, a curse or a blessing

The Pakcanoes have air chambers on the sides. The advantage is that the boat is therefore unsinkable. During assembly, the splats are easier to place (without a hammer as with the Ally) and the boat then draws its strength from inflating the air chambers.

The safety aspect of insinkability is limited in practice. If you want a non-sinkable open canoe, you have to place really large air pockets.

Another advantage of the air chambers: the aluminum rods and trafters do not press directly against the cloth anywhere, if you beat a stone or a bank the air chamber acts as a buffer and the skin is less likely to be damaged.

The disadvantage is that the air chambers can break, for example due to sharp luggage, fishing gear or fall apart because the pressure is too high in the bright sun. The problem is that the strength of your boat is gone, which requires a repair along the way. With Tear-Aid, for example, that is fixed very quickly.

The rods

The rods and shings of the Pakcanoe are made of anodized aluminum. The advantage is that you do not get gray hands from the aluminum oxide when mounting the Pakcanoe as with the non-anodized aluminum of the Ally. If you put on a pair of work gloves with the Ally, you won't be bothered by that either.

If you hit a stone very hard with the anodized rods of the Pakcanoe, the rod may bend or break. Straightening can hardly cause without breaking. The softer aluminum of the Ally can be carefully bent back into its original shape. In case of major damage along the way, the Ally is therefore easier to repair.

Another difference: with the Ally, the rods are connected with stainless steel springs that are clamped into the tubes. With the Pakcanoe there is an elastic in the tube as with a tent pole. Ally's stainless steel springs can rust over time (if you always store the boat dry it can take twenty years, it can also be within two years if you pack the boat wet and leave it for a winter) The Ally springs are available separately and can be replaced. The elastic of the Pakcanoe will also lose its stretching over time and will have to be replaced. I expect after about ten years.

The assembly

The assembly of the Pakcanoes is easier and therefore slightly faster through the air chambers. The Ally gets its strength directly from the tensioning of the cloth through the rods and slats. You often need a few blows of the included rubber hammer to get the slats in place. The Ally takes a little more power to assemble.

The connection of the shings with the bottom rods is secured at the Ally with sturdy twist clips. With the Pakcanoe, there are simple rubber straps that sometimes want to come loose, for example when the boat bends in rapids. For large tours, expeditions and white water sailing, it is worth using tie-wraps here. At this point, the Ally is more solid.

The connection of the slans on the board is an open C-clip on the Ally, on the Pakcanoe the slat is fixed to the edge bar with a twist clip. At this point, the Pakcanoe is a bit more sturdy.

The assembly of the Ally takes 25-30 minutes after some practice. The Pakboat after some practice in 20-25 minutes. No decisive difference.

In the Pakcanoe, the rods are color-coded to easily get them in the right place. With the Ally you have to apply a color coding yourself if you find this convenient.

Seats

The Ally has adjustable freestanding seats on which you can sail both with your legs straight and kneeling. The seat can be tilted for this. The seat is also easy to move forward or backward to adjust the trim of the boat. And the seats are adjustable in height. The ergonomic plastic seat is excellent for 95% of people. Only a few get a wooden rear of it. There are several seat legs to place the front, middle or rear seats in the boat. Two seats (with sets of front and rear legs) are included as standard.

The Pakcanoes have a webbing seat with a wooden frame. This is mounted on the trafters as a sliding seat. These webbing seats can be placed slightly forward or backward to fit the trim. Also here standard a front and rear seat and a middle seat as an accessory. Advantage of the webbing seats is that you can also sit a little 'out of the middle'. Some people like that sailing, you are closer to the board. Especially the first time, mounting the Pakcanoe seats is a bit more difficult. For families with children, the (optional) webbing seat in the middle of the boat is a godsend. Two small children look next to each other.

Boat trim

With both the Pakcanoe and the Ally, the seats can be moved to adjust the trim. With the Ally this can be just a little further than with the Pakcanoe.

Conversion kit

A nice option of the Pakcanoe is the conversion kit. This allows you to change the hull shape within the same skin with a five or six (depending on the model) cross-tides from wide and shallow (standard) to narrower and deeper. Compared to the Ally, you would use this to adapt an all-round model to a flat water model. Two boats for (a little more than) the price of one so. The conversion kit is there for the Pakcanoe 150 and the Pakcanoe 165. The 150 is ideally suited for solo sailing with conversion kit (and a middle seat) and is therefore a good alternative to the no longer produced Ally 15.5'DR.

Ally does not have the possibility of a conversion kit.

Extras

The Pakcanoes are more fully equipped as standard, for example, they have five reinforcement strips on the bottom, a D-ring at the front and back to tow or moor the canoe, and a dunge bag is included as standard.

With the Ally, you have to glue yourself for a keel reinforcement strip or a D-ring. A packing bag is not included, the Ally comes separately with all parts in a box (but at folding canoe store you get the nylon storage bag for free).

Accessories

-A sail can be mounted for both the Ally and the Pakcanoe. The Ally mudflains are a bit more convenient to close with elastic and hooks than the Pakcanoe's lacing system.

-With the Ally you have loose sailpers that are placed around your waist and around the manholes. Around the middle hole is a flat cover. With the Pakcanoe, a trunk is attached to the mudsail, which is a bit more difficult to get in – and out.

-For the Pakcanoes there is a dismountable carrying yoke to carry the boat on your shoulders (carrying). For the Ally you have to construct something similar yourself. There is a kind of backpack frame where you can carry the Ally on, but that turns out not to be very convenient in practice.

-For the Ally there is also a stuff net and a card bag for the spail.

The finish

With the Ally's there is sometimes a bram on the aluminum, a spring comes loose prematurely or there are some creases in the skin. I've seen it all come by. Problems are always solved, but I prefer problems to be ahead of through careful production and good quality control.

The Pakcanoes are neatly finished than the Ally canoes. So less beauty flaws and you can see that reflected in the price.

Sailing characteristics

Because the Pakcanoe draws its strength from the air chambers, the boat as a whole is slightly more flexible than the Ally. A more flexible boat runs more over the waves instead of drilling into them. So you sail drier in a Pakcanoe. The downside is that part of your paddle energy disappears in the flex of the boat.

The longer the boat the more flexible, but that is also the case with the Ally. An Ally 18'DR bends slightly more than a 15'DR. The Ally's are a bit stiffer in the longitudinal direction than the Pakcanoes, but this is mainly a matter of personal preference and novice canoeists may not even notice the difference.

The weight

The Pakcanoes are a few kilos heavier than the Ally's at similar lengths because of the reinforcement strips, D-rings and air chambers and wood/webbing seats. Every benefit...

The storage bag

With Pakcanoes, the bag is included as standard. With Ally, that's not standard.

The price

The Pakcanoes are slightly more expensive than the Ally's, but also more completely equipped and more carefully finished as standard.

Conclusion

I hope this information is helpful in making your choice, but never buy a canoe on the internet without having sailed in it. Features such as stability, agility and stability are very personal, so reviews from others have limited value. So always come first test sailing!

Nice comparison, thanks.

I don't know anything about Pakboats but I really liked my Ally, I had the 16.5 footer that I paddled solo. I agree that the foam mat was a pain to get centered.
Bought mine in Canada but the company does not appear to sell them anymore.

I own and have used a 17 PakCanoe on three 4-6 week northern Canada/Alaska trips (and planning on another 4 week trip this summer). They are the fly-in pickup of the northern areas, as you can check them as baggage on domestic flights, and you don't have to strap them on floats. They are extremely durable if reasonable care is taken (i.e. don't throw them down after portages). On one trip, we lost all the inflater tubes for the air tubes, and didn't notice any difference in paddling efficiency (hey, it's a truck!). We did big lakes and big whitewater (both with spray decks), and they performed admirably. You can buy them direct from the company in New Hampshire . I can highly recommend them for remote trips. For
BWCA, not so much, as they are slow (but stable). https://www.pakboats.com/pakcanoes/

Mreid,

I am looking into buying a new 150T (15 foot Pakboat) to paddle remote rivers with potentially pretty powerful whitewater. Definately lots of class 2, and some class 3 where there would be navigable passages, paddling either solo or tandem. You mentioned using spray skirts and unfortunately there is no skirt option for the 150. I was just planning to bail out water in eddys when necessary. I've remember seeing a video of a pakboat taking rapids and bending considerably with the water so can see why it wouldn't take on as much water.

What do you think of paddling the smaller 15 foot Pakboat without a spray skirt? Would you suggest air bags (front and rear) in addition to the floatation already present? The other option is going with the longer 165 model that can get narrower for solo paddling (where you can get a spray skirt) but that is a lot longer and I hear the longer packboats do not track well paddling solo since the ends would have pronounced rocker with the weight in the centre (where the paddler is). Also the 165 isn't rated on their website for Cl 3 whitewater as the 150 is.

I have only paddled the 17. My partner has a 15 which he's paddled solo on the lower Stikine, and I think he's paddled it on the Salmon in Idaho (at his limit!). I don't know if he was using a spray deck. From my point of view, a spray deck is most useful when paddling a loaded canoe, or in exposed lakes where bailing is problematical. For whitewater, floatation is needed, whether it is the waterproof packs or added floatation. Our boats were full (up to six weeks without resupply), so floatation wasn't an option. I made my own spray deck. Cooke Custom Sewing makes spray decks if you want one.
I'd think a 15 tandem would be a small boat for trips, but just right for solo.
If you're not flying into destinations, a rigid boat would probably be a better option--easier to outfit, don't have to assemble it, easier to find used, etc.

Agreed about rigid canoes being nice. That's been my only experience with a few decades now of regular paddling. I have a few rigid canoes (Royalex or kevlar) for most applications but the pakcanoe or Ally seems to shine with remote use with planes to start/end the trip and also to throw in the trunk for long road trips with the family where I can just pull a canoe out for some enjoyment.

I'm hoping the 150T should be fine for tandem paddling in my use case, given that we do ultralight camping with less than 400 pounds weight in the canoe at any point. I'd also rather solo a 15' canoe in rapids instead of 16 or 16 1/2'.

I owned 17 pakboat until last year. It was a nice boat that is boat that is excellent for fly-ins. These craft take time to learn in terms of putting them together, and taking them apart. They are relatively light weight, ie., 50 plus lbs. The new pak canoes come with much better seats than the original older versions. The newer ones have sliding seats that can be adjusted to trim weight. They are similar to standard canoe seats. It is best to zip tie ribs and crossbars where they come together. Mine did have a factory made splash cover. The pakboats hull were designed off of the mad river explorer. I am not familiar with the Ally boats but would consider them well made as well. About one year agao pakboats was still open. Good luck in your effort to find one,