Sorry, I know this is all over every social media and news constantly but I had an experience in the BWCA recently and am wondering if this is a new normal.

In early January, I tripped to Basswood for a couple of nights. I have an RABC and read that there’s a recent memo saying that, for Quetico, your printed reservation is your off season permit. I did just that and camped on the Basswood side of Quetico on the ice for a couple of nights.

On the way out, while still on Basswood, I suddenly saw a couple of snowmobiles and thought, that’s odd, they’re not allowed. It happened so quickly that before I knew it border patrol was upon me. They wanted my name, where I live, whether I crossed the border, etc. I answered truthfully. They explained how to check in back in Ely. Thankfully they didn’t require ID because it was buried in my gear.

I suspect that I was watched by drone because they intercepted me less than an hour after breaking camp. Is this a new normal? We should expect to see snowmobiles in the BWCA now?

Drones have been used by border patrol in the BWCA since at least 2010. That year we had a drone fly over us while canoeing the border route along Crooked Lake. After our trip when we stopped by the FS office we asked about drones. The FS staff said that yes, the border patrol uses drones in the area. That was sixteen years ago.

Border patrol spot-checking remote areas using snowmobiles in winter sounds entirely reasonable and appropriate. Security of the realm is the number one role of the government. What's the issue?

Good to see that Border Patrol actually spends some time along the border!

I don't want this to turn political so I'll try to keep that out of my reply and I ask that others try to also. I was mainly wondering is this always happening or a new trend? I don't do many winter trips. Maybe it's always been normal and I'm just unaware.

As for what's wrong, again keeping politics aside, I go to the BWCA for peace, quiet, solitude, and for good fishing. Let's call it spiritual. This experience rattled me a bit and pulled me out of it. Is that an issue? You're entitled to your own opinion and judgment and I respect that.

Were they US or Canadian border patrol agents?

Jackfish: "Were they US or Canadian border patrol agents?"

US and on the US side of the border.

To simplify your original post, are you asking if snowmobiles can be used by the Border Patrol within the boundaries of the BWCA?

I don't question the legality. I understand that they're probably within their right to use any mode of transport and that the rules that apply to me don't apply to them. Nor should they.

I'm wondering if my experience is happening with frequency and whether increasing. I've never seen myself nor heard of stories of BP in the BWCA.

Minnesotian: "
To simplify your original post, are you asking if snowmobiles can be used by the Border Patrol within the boundaries of the BWCA? "

I think he's asking how common it is

Freddy: "Good to see that Border Patrol actually spends some time along the border!"

+1

Just wanted to chime in that I appreciate DTrain keeping this non-political. It’s a nice change of pace.

”I think he's asking how common it is"

This is how I received the post.

Would be curious if they were looking for “someone” or “something” specific. They don’t stop/check a ton of people during prime time months.

I get the question for sure.

This is not political but anytime law enforcement approaches you it is a little off putting. Not even saying it's the officer's fault. Most people are expecting to be alone, not see any type of machine, then 2 of them come up on ya. It's gonna be disconcerting. They come at you different than Rangers/FS/DNR personnel would. I don't how to describe it but it's different. You can't compare a ranger or DNR stopping you.

I was in Quetico fishing one time and a float plane dropped in. Armed Customs and game agents came out and checked us. We had everything we needed and to be honest they seemed mad we had everything in order...but it's just an experience most of us are not used to and it throws ya off. Not expecting that in the middle of no where.

Also is this the new norm? Every time we go near the border or cross is this going to happen? Not gonna argue if it is right or wrong, I'd just like to be prepared.

T

I have been stopped three separate times in the BWCA by DNR/Conservation officers on snowmobiles, twice on Clearwater Lake on the BW side and once on Wood Lake. They checked our licenses and bait and were on their way. I have zero problem with this and actually support it. I can live with a few minutes of snowmobile noise if it's helping to make sure our country is safe.

Thanks T, interesting to hear an experience on the Canada side of the border, and especially to drop in via float plane like that.

In my 20ish trips (spanning 35 years and three seasons) that have had some passage along the border, I've never seen any LEO or drone.
Occasionally the USFS plane on a rescue mission.

I don't doubt that we are being watched/tracked from above.

it happens year round. sometimes in the summer the border patrol, cook county sheriff, DNR and USFS will all be in the same watercraft to cover all aspects of a "visit".

Quick short answer: yes, it’s normal. I’ve made a handful of winter trips up to Basswood and we camp very close to the border. Each year, we’ve seen snowmobile tracks and the first year I was angry, assuming it was illegal jackoffery. Since, I’ve learned that it’s Border Patrol. The funny thing is that they must be traveling via GPS because their tracks are literally right on the invisible borderline that shows on my GPS map. One of my favorite fishing spots is like 50-100 yards from this invisible line and we take extra care to make sure we’re well on the US side during our winter trips.

Tony

I didn’t realize that motors were allowed outside of emergency situations. Just to clarify…are you guys saying there were snowmobiles is non-motorized areas?

DTrain: "Thanks T, interesting to hear an experience on the Canada side of the border, and especially to drop in via float plane like that."

We joked after they left that they were mad because they did tell us they had to rent an airplane for the day. The weather was terrible, couldn't be many people out fishing. They were patrolling the Canadian side of Crooked Lake on the MN Walleye opener. If they had good business they wouldn't of left the border and into the interior. Probably needed to pay for it with fines :) They kept us out on the water in 50 degree weather for an hour, about got hypothermia.

I've had Quetico Rangers drop in on a sea plane as well. Totally different experience.

T

brp: "I didn’t realize that motors were allowed outside of emergency situations. Just to clarify…are you guys saying there were snowmobiles is non-motorized areas? "

Border patrol can do whatever they want in the wilderness.

Since 9/11 there have been border patrol in Ely. There are three full time agents in Ely, I think. They have been normal citizens in the community in my experience.

Drones and snowmobiles have been used in the winter for a long time. I haven’t heard much about it in the last decade, but when it first started, it was fairly common.

We were breaking trail into Knife fifteen years ago for the winter trout opener and a drone flew over us. It felt bizarre to be out all alone traveling by dog and not a soul around.

Illegal crossing concerns in the 1950s

I was surprised to see this scene about an illegal crossing on border in that area once. Go to 1:40 time.

Zulu: " Illegal crossing concerns in the 1950s


I was surprised to see this scene about an illegal crossing on border in that area once. Go to 1:40 time."

Great video Zulu, never saw that before.

In the 1990's and 2000 plus there was a group of about 5 snowmobiles-mainly from Ely or the range area would sneak into Canada most winters and lake trout fish. One of those guys was convicted later of assault and rape. Often they would than leave numerous beer cans on the ice and a small Island on a lake they burnt most of it down. Yes even seen a note touting people whom found there antics.
Yes they were caught a couple of times.
Yes personally I found the beer can and other trash they left behind.
If you went from Burke to Basswood-than lakes north you could see the carbide studs on their track cut up tree roots and scratched the rocks deeply which will be there long after I am gone.

Well, what are they gonna do, deport you back to the US. Ruin your day I’m sure, give you a spanking, a hefty fine and tell you not to come back I’m guessing. I wouldn’t be real happy if I was following all the rules and I get rushed up on by two armed agents or whatever they are. My first instinct would be to tell them to eff off.

scat: "I wouldn’t be real happy if I was following all the rules and I get rushed up on by two armed agents or whatever they are. My first instinct would be to tell them to eff off. "

Scat, I don't know if you're serious or not, but we're talking about an international boundary here. These officers are doing their job and making sure the border is protected. If you go back to DTrain's OP, he was surprised, too, but he answered truthfully, and shortly thereafter, both parties were on their way. No harm. No foul.

Not happy if you were following all the rules and you get rushed up on by two armed agents? How do THEY know you're following the rules? You're on the international boundary. I think we can all admit that the likelihood of nefarious ne'er do-wells being on a frozen lake in the middle of nowhere is slim to none, but that doesn't mean a person getting checked should get all pissed off. And if you follow your first instinct by telling them to eff off, your day isn't going to get any better.

An act of Congress was required to allow the use of chainsaws in the BW after the blowdown of 1999. So I don't think getting a little pissed off by yet another government agency that decides it can write its own rules is really out of line.

Just my two cents.

Pete

ClarkPeters: "An act of Congress was required to allow the use of chainsaws in the BW after the blowdown of 1999. So I don't think getting a little pissed off by yet another government agency that decides it can write its own rules is really out of line.

Just my two cents.

Pete"

Pete,
It is was the Superior National Forest supervisor, Jim Sanders who approved that action in 1999. He was my boss. Congress did not approve that order.

Thanks GopherAdventure, Finnboy, timatkn and others for the stories. It sounds like my experience was not that unusual. In the BWCA I've been asked for my permit by forest service, asked for fishing license by game warden, but never encountered BP.

scat: "Well, what are they gonna do, deport you back to the US. Ruin your day I’m sure, give you a spanking, a hefty fine and tell you not to come back I’m guessing. I wouldn’t be real happy if I was following all the rules and I get rushed up on by two armed agents or whatever they are. My first instinct would be to tell them to eff off. "

Wanna know how to turn a mildly stressful situation into a potentially dangerous one? This is how you do that.

Rule number one when dealing with law enforcement officers - always be polite and respectful, even if you think their behavior doesn't warrant it.

It had to be 20 years ago, my friend and I skied up to Praire Portage, put camping fees in a drop box, then skied to the eastern side of Carp Lake.

We were fishing the next day and, about noon, had a helicopter following our tracks. They landed right by us and checked all of our licenses and then snowshoed back to our camp. We had a small wall tent and used small dead spruce poles to support it. They searched around and checked to make sure these were dead trees.

They did give us a ticket for too many lines in the water because we had pulled up one rod but left it hanging about 6" in the water so it wouldn't freeze .

Strange deal for sure.

A helicopter to give a ticket for one pole geez... Few years ago i was walking to the bank half a mile from my house on a beautiful summer morning. All of a sudden two cop cars haul up next to me, two of Lake Villa’s finest jump out and come running at me and start peppering me with questions, what’s my name, what am I doing. I just kept walking and told them to get the eff away from me. Apparently they were looking for some guy they say looks like me. I’m like, eff you, no clue, gave them my name and said I’m walking to the bank to make a deposit, leave me the eff alone. Didn’t have my license with me but I wasn’t interested in discussing it. Finally they relented and went away. That was actually quite satisfying cuz I was able to tell them to eff off and get away with it.

Cheers, scat

timatkn: "This is not political, but anytime law enforcement approaches you it is a little off putting."

Glad to hear others chime in a-politically. I've personally felt uncomfortable when interacting with law enforcement. Not even the one time I was arrested. Show respect and it is usually returned. I believe not breaking the law helps. I will never understand the mindset that Scat is describing. Unnecessary escalation, for no gain.

It really bugged me the way they ran up on me and were aggressive. I’m like I have no idea what you are talking about and don’t get me involved. It pissed me off so I let them know I wasn’t real happy about it, being implicated or whatever. I didn’t break any law, I was minding my own business walking to my bank enjoying a beautiful summer day and these two idiots wannabe tough guys sure as heck weren’t going to ruin my day.

My daughter is a cop. She and I have had a conversation about the best way to interact with people. How you approach people as law enforcement makes a huge difference. She said if you approach people with a calm professional demeanor, it puts everyone at ease and makes for a better outcome in most cases.

It could be I have issues, don’t like wannabe tough guys haha.
Ok I’ll shut up now, got a bit off track. Be careful out there…

Blatz: "My daughter is a cop. She and I have had a conversation about the best way to interact with people. How you approach people as law enforcement makes a huge difference. She said if you approach people with a calm professional demeanor, it puts everyone at ease and makes for a better outcome in most cases. "

My Dad was a police officer and he always acted like your daughter said. He treated everyone like a human being. Even decades after he pasted away people he arrested or gave a warning to talk about how much respect they had for him and in many cases helped them turn their life around.

I spend a fair amount of time each year on the Eastern side of the park and have done so for over a decade. Last spring I started seeing low level (few hundred feet above the lake) helicopter flights following the border. At times these were daily. This was a marked change from the occasional high altitude small plane or drone fly over.

Jackfish: "

scat: "I wouldn’t be real happy if I was following all the rules and I get rushed up on by two armed agents or whatever they are. My first instinct would be to tell them to eff off. "

Scat, I don't know if you're serious or not, but we're talking about an international boundary here. These officers are doing their job and making sure the border is protected. If you go back to DTrain's OP, he was surprised, too, but he answered truthfully, and shortly thereafter, both parties were on their way. No harm. No foul.

Not happy if you were following all the rules and you get rushed up on by two armed agents? How do THEY know you're following the rules? You're on the international boundary. I think we can all admit that the likelihood of nefarious ne'er do-wells being on a frozen lake in the middle of nowhere is slim to none, but that doesn't mean a person getting checked should get all pissed off. And if you follow your first instinct by telling them to eff off, your day isn't going to get any better. "

This is the problem. Those agents assume nefarious activity. Their attitude showed it. You are guilty until proven innocent. Getting checked, ok. (Evidently you give up your 4th amendment rights within 100 mi. of any border.) But being immediately put on the defensive and required to prove your innocence is called intimidation. It is not respectful in any definition of the word.

During a trip in June 2024, we were portaging to Mountain from Clearwater. As we were approaching Clearwater on a return trip, we see a canoe that had just pulled to shore. I look and see two guys wearing Border Patrol jackets. I was kind of chuckling while asking if they were really Border Patrol agents because I could not imagine anyone attempting a border crossing in that area. They were the real deal. Very nice guys and we chatted for 10-15 minutes.

The older agent explained he was introducing the newbie to the area and wanted to show him some points along the Border Route Trail, which intersects that portage. He said they see most border activity during the winter and in areas further west of Clearwater. However, when they increase patrol in those western areas the activity will move east to include our area. Illegal drugs were the main target.

Finnboy: "

brp: "I didn’t realize that motors were allowed outside of emergency situations. Just to clarify…are you guys saying there were snowmobiles is non-motorized areas? "

Border patrol can do whatever they want in the wilderness."

Do you know the actually wording in the BWCA legislation regarding that? I suspect you are incorrect that there is no restriction, but don’t actually know.

Can they snowmobile through non-motor areas that do not touch the border and have an established road between that space and the border?

I understand that in the current political climate we are more likely to have agents patrolling the border. I hope they make genuine efforts to be as unobtrusive as possible. Use drones instead of snowmobiles when possible, use one snowmobile instead of two, use electric or 4 stroke snowmobiles, limit speed/noise when practical, interact with people at EP rather than in the wilderness, when possible, etc.

GopherAdventure: " The funny thing is that they must be traveling via GPS because their tracks are literally right on the invisible borderline that shows on my GPS map. "

I've always understood that both the US and Canadian governments could follow this invisible line via motorboats for whatever reason, so it stands to reason that they could use snowmobiles as well. I'm not sure it matters which agency is in the boat. Not sure if there is text to this effect in the Wilderness Act?

CanoeGnu: "Last spring I started seeing low level (few hundred feet above the lake) helicopter flights following the border. At times these were daily. This was a marked change from the occasional high altitude small plane or drone fly over. "

This was my experience last spring as well. While paddling along the border route a low altitude helicopter passed over each day that appeared to stay on the Canadian side of the invisible boundary.

Outside of this and the occasional search and rescue plane, I have had my permit checked twice by the forest service and each interaction was pleasant.

brp: "

Finnboy: "

brp: "I didn’t realize that motors were allowed outside of emergency situations. Just to clarify…are you guys saying there were snowmobiles is non-motorized areas? "

Border patrol can do whatever they want in the wilderness."

Do you know the actually wording in the BWCA legislation regarding that? I suspect you are incorrect that there is no restriction, but don’t actually know.

Can they snowmobile through non-motor areas that do not touch the border and have an established road between that space and the border?

I understand that in the current political climate we are more likely to have agents patrolling the border. I hope they make genuine efforts to be as unobtrusive as possible. Use drones instead of snowmobiles when possible, use one snowmobile instead of two, use electric or 4 stroke snowmobiles, limit speed/noise when practical, interact with people at EP rather than in the wilderness, when possible, etc. "

Maybe the best description of this is they can use whatever mode of transportation they need to do their job in the wilderness. This is my somewhat educated understanding of the situation.

And this is where, regardless of politics, I just can't wrap my head around the math. They are paying salaries of border patrol agents, covering the cost of snowmobiles, drones, and whatever else. Have they ever caught someone coming from Canada with nefarious intent in the Boundary Waters? Not like a lost fisherman, but someone who is actually crossing the border with the intent to commit a crime on this side of the border. Because if you are patrolling Basswood or Knife, it's not like there is a Canadian city on the other side.

From Lac La Croix to Saganaga is Quetico Provincial Park - also non motorized. It's not just non-motorized by rule; you would be hard pressed to travel much of the interior by snowmobile or motorboat. And if you did travel 50 plus miles from the nearest remote Canadian settlement and then crossed into the Boundary Waters, they still have a ways to go before they are truly out.

Now maybe, maybe I could see the justification somewhere like Sag or Lac La Croix where there are small settlements on Canada's side, but even then. I felt this way about the international border folks that clear monument and watap portages with chainsaws. We allow a federal agency to violate the federal environmental protections we set in place just to spend a ton of money doing so, and for what? Some feel good line about keeping the border safer, but honestly wild spaces do a pretty great job at that on their own. And that crazy proposal earlier this year to stick in roads and things for the border agents would only make the space easier to travel for anyone nefarious anyways. Set up a bunch of discreet audio sensors near the border if you must, but I don't get the finances or the ethics of the current system.

Treebear they are saving the US from the nefarious Cisco importers :)

No, the math doesn’t make any sense. Three full time agents in Ely? Complete waste of tax dollars. Maybe I am wrong? With all that money spent, is there anything to show for it?

All that time, work, money to confront Dtrain…and then, in the end, they didn’t even verify if he was a citizen! He could have been a Canuck secret agent, for all they knew. :) So what are they doing again?

T

Z4K: "

timatkn: "This is not political, but anytime law enforcement approaches you it is a little off putting."

Glad to hear others chime in a-politically. I've personally felt uncomfortable when interacting with law enforcement. Not even the one time I was arrested. Show respect and it is usually returned. I believe not breaking the law helps. I will never understand the mindset that Scat is describing. Unnecessary escalation, for no gain."

I think you need to recognize your experience is unique…not every interaction is great. My best friend is a detective in KC. He has had to shoot criminals 3x personally (that’s a very high number if you don’t know). I have a lot of respect for law enforcement. They have a tough job. The type of work I do, I’ve had over 50 interactions with law enforcement. The vast majority were good and respectful.

With that being said, having someone come up on you in an accusatory…guilty before proven innocent attitude…that has a gun and power over you is unsettling. Not all of them do that but too many…

I once got pulled over five days in a row…every night coming home from baseball games/practice. Why? Because I was 18 and any 18 year old driving after 8:00pm must be drinking (I didn’t drink ever). Each time they made up some fake thing I did, to pull me over. Each time, I was guilty until I went through all the tests. Each time I was treated like crap. I get it if you pull over EVERY SINGLE 18 year old driving late they might get a DUI occasionally. but you can’t treat people that way. It’s all about how you are approached and the intent.

BTW, as I’ve aged, a far more effective profiling in that area would be to pull over every single old guy driving after 7:00pm if they want DUIs, but they don’t.

My personal experience with Border Patrol is mixed. I’ve had normal experiences and I’ve had the aggressive for no reason attitude. So yeah, I’ll be respectful, but it’s still unsettling, and none of it necessary. I know too many good at their job, so I know it can be done differently.

T

Preach it Treebear.

I hear ya, I told my story. Don’t come running up to me in an aggressive accusatory manner. My first reaction was get away from me, I don’t know what you are talking about and leave me alone and I was vocal about it.

I don’t want any interaction with any type of law enforcement. I drive one mile an hour over the speed limit on cruise control 100% of the time. This might sound nuts but I stopped walking in my neighborhood, a nice suburban area, cuz I had this fear that some guy was with no pants on was going to come running out of his house one morning and get shot in front of me. Then I have to get involved, talk to cops, go to court, blah blah. Don’t want anything to do with any of that. I don’t break any laws so leave me alone. I’d probably just keep walking.

The "math doesn't add up" argument neglects the deterrent value of generating the awareness that at any time, in any location near the border, you could get pinched if you're up to no good.

Obviously, in remote areas the border service cannot patrol the vast wilderness. Thus, the only effective deterrent is the surprise effect that yes, the authorities can magically appear using aircraft, boats and snowmobiles at any time in any location.

Projecting that image requires the occasional show on the ground and the waterfall effect of having the word of that operation cascade through the community - be it a town or a canoe bulletin board.

I highly suspect these operations are few and far between. But are achieving the desired deterrent effect.

RE: @Treebear's comments...if you think about it the rusticity of the BWCA probably makes the region more secure than any wall could. If you were a criminal and trying to smuggle drugs/guns/humans across the border in any direction, would you want to do it with a canoe or dogsled? Heck no...you would use a cigarette boat on Lake Erie or Ontario, or a parade of jeeps along the ND/Manitoba border. If you will forgive the pun, the very nature of the wilderness protects the border for both nations.

Argo - I must say that is a legit point. I can see what you are saying.

I will keep all this mind when traveling thru a few border lakes this June and stay close to the US side. Don’t want to get deported back to the US and cause an international incident of epic proportions.

Good write, Treebear.

Record setting decline in crime in 2025. What is being done is working and our country is becoming safer.

I wouldn't say that one group approaches more aggressively than others.

I have a lead foot - which over the years has led to quite a number of interactions. Some pleasant and some not. Like every profession, there are individuals who are good at their job and individuals who aren't.

The biggest a-hole I've come across was the FS ranger on Isabella lake. The guy was on a major power trip and just acted like a complete jackwagon.

We were two families of three. Each with a three year old young boy. First site we stopped at was kind of trashed so we left from there. Having some concerns about campsite availability, we dumped the two ladies and two kids in one canoe, while the other dad and I shot off in the second canoe to find a campsite.

We paddled past a couple occupied, found an open one, dropped a few packs on the shore and paddled back to the rest of the family to lead them to the camp. We arrived about the same time as the ranger. Right away he accused us aggressively of occupying two sites, wanted to search our gear, it was just a mess and he was aggressive the whole time.

After finding nothing wrong. He still felt the need to lecture us on the rules and then proclaims, you might want to go find another site, we're going to be here for a while, I think we need to move the latrine.

We declined to leave and stayed to set up camp. Unsure what his deal was.

What kind of an impression did that make on the 6 kids in your group. Witnessing their parents get the ‘3rd degree’ and bullied around when again you weren’t doing anything wrong but reserving a campsite for your families, including 2 - 3 year olds in the group. Complete jackwagon, that’s the kind of behavior that really bugs me. Guy gets some authority all of a sudden he’s god. Glad you dug in and stayed on the site, well done.

Overall, I think LE has grown accustomed to honest people rolling over to obey their every command. For me, I was probably in that camp. I used to have huge respect for the Border Patrol. Heck, I almost became a cop.

I can say, in no certain terms, my viewpoint has changed 100%. What I’ve seen and witnessed has shown me who the enemy really is.

This whole thing sort of reminds me of what the ATF did in Waco. Can anyone say that what the ATF did was a justified action? So many innocent people died in order capture (kill) a few thugs.

Sorry, I know this forum doesn’t want this sort of talk, but the BWCA is in Minnesota and many people have been beaten into a hole.

I must ask, who is destroying Minnesota, immigrants or the government?

Tom

Gadfly: "Record setting decline in crime in 2025. What is being done is working and our country is becoming safer. "

Chicago's crime has been declining significantly for the last few years.