Wondering how everyone handles wind when you're on a trip. At what point do you say it's too much? Is it MPH, water conditions, personal evaluation.
I'm just trying to get an idea of what folks consider safe.
Heading in for my 5th trip with my son, and it would give us a bit of a baseline for what folks consider safe. One person's wind bound day is anothers paddle/fish/scout around day.

Thanks!

Aside from in the face or following wind, more of a wave than wind question. Wind won't kill you, waves might. Look at where you are planning on traveling, wind direction, whether a route sheltered from the wind, which can shift, is doable, and possible sites to seek shelter. Better safe than sorry, and miserable. Laying up and setting out a dawn can turn a terrifying hard paddle into an easy pleasant experience.

I think you have to consider water temps. If you're up there after mid June thru early Sept, capsizing, with a life jacket on, is more of an inconvenience, and a risk of losing some gear, but not necessarily a risk of losing your life. That's not true in May, when capsizing, even with a life jacket on, could cost you your life.

I think the type and size of the canoe matters alot. I go to Saganaga every year, and cross it in these big wide heavy alumacrafts, that are basically aircraft carriers. We have never capsized. In 55 trips, and 110 crossings, there's only been like 3 or 4, we couldn't cross and sat it out.

We definitely respect the wind, and have been consciously trying to get out as early in the day as possible to avoid the heaviest of the wind. We often try to get out by 7 am, and off the water by 11.

I have a Northwind 17 we use for looping and I'm much more conservative. It's not too bad fully loaded, but if we're already at camp, and go out without all that weight, it takes a lot less wind to feel a little uncomfortable. Anything double digits starts to make me think twice about going out.

When it doubt, sit it out. It's just not worth the risk.

I usually trip solo and I'm extremely cautious about paddling in wind. As others have noted, direction relative to where you're paddling makes a big difference, but in general anything more than 10 mph makes me sit it out. Both from a purely safety standpoint, and because paddling in significant waves is very stressful, which kinda defeats the purpose of being out in nature for me.

Rollers

Risk management often looks at the probability of having a problem times the consequences if the problem happens.

It's all about your capabilities and your son's and your boat's. Can you confidently self-rescue every place you will paddle?

If I'm alone in the right boat I think I can handle 20 mph sustained and 40 mph gusts but I can't be sure since I can only guess at the wind speeds I've experienced. If I bring a kid onto my local fairly large river I'll be much much more conservative since things could get very messy very quickly.

My comment, similar to the comment about leaving early, is that if it's a windy day don't be surprised if it gets windier. When one reads about incidents it's just so common for the story to start with "and then the wind picked up". I remember launching on a dead calm day and getting hit with gusts around 50 mph within 30 minutes and I came very close to swimming. When you study the weather reports look for weather fronts; it can be quite memorable to be on the water when a weather front arrives.

Fitness, Fetch, and Fellows.

What is the fitness/endurance factor for each person in your party? How long can each person maintain the effort required to keep the boat on course and in a safe position in relation to the waves.

Fetch - Can I close the fetch enough that I can paddle safely along a shore, in a bay, small(er) lakes etc. along my route. I may still have to battle some wind, but not the waves.

Fellows - Can those in my party make an informed decision regarding the risk for themselves? Most children cannot. Some adults cannot.

I will echo what others have said - Conditions change. Continuous monitoring of the weather and your partners (and yourself) is required. New decisions happen all the time.

It's a matter of what's happening on the water, who I have with me, and what we are paddling.

If I'm alone in my kayak, it will take way more to get me to stay put. My kayak can handle way more wave action than a canoe.

These variables will make me much more reserved:
- New people or inexperienced paddlers on the trip. There ability and comfort level matters.
- Shoulder season cold water. A mistake in these seasons can be fatal.
- Low profile canoes. They can take on water more easily.

All good advice. I will add that one of the things that gets people in the most trouble is leaving from the shore where the wind is coming from and heading out across big water and thinking it looks pretty calm. Oftentimes you are excited to have a nice tail wind to push you along, but after traveling for a mile or two you find yourself in scarier and scarier waves and the LAST thing you want to do is try to turn around, but going forward means ever increasing waves. Don't get in that position. Quartering, following, large waves are the scariest as they are constantly trying to turn you sideways as they push you along. Starting from the windy side is better as you can judge accurately what you are dealing with and the waves will get smaller as you go. Just don't let yourself get sideways in large waves. Wind speed doesn't tell you all that much on it's own, although I would say you are always OK at 15 mph and sometimes OK at 25 mph, but above that I would use a lot of caution unless it was small water or somewhat protected.

This limit moves depending on our group members, time of the year, experience paddlers or beginners, how much gear or freeboard we have. But mostly if we see any whitecaps it’s time to get off the water. Or if we wake up to whitecaps we are not moving that day.

mgraber: "All good advice. I will add that one of the things that gets people in the most trouble is leaving from the shore where the wind is coming from and heading out across big water and thinking it looks pretty calm. Oftentimes you are excited to have a nice tail wind to push you along, but after traveling for a mile or two you find yourself in scarier and scarier waves and the LAST thing you want to do is try to turn around, but going forward means ever increasing waves. Don't get in that position. Quartering, following, large waves are the scariest as they are constantly trying to turn you sideways as they push you along. Starting from the windy side is better as you can judge accurately what you are dealing with and the waves will get smaller as you go. Just don't let yourself get sideways in large waves. Wind speed doesn't tell you all that much on it's own, although I would say you are always OK at 15 mph and sometimes OK at 25 mph, but above that I would use a lot of caution unless it was small water or somewhat protected."

Good point about a strong tailwind. I was paddling towards my exit on my last day of a Pecos River trip. The canyon walls are quite tall, frequently 200-300’, and they funnel wind up and down the river. Usually, it’s a headwind out of the south. But on the trip I had the least experienced paddlers with me, we had sustained 20-30mph tailwinds. Those slow rollers coming from the back sure make you think twice about what you’re doing, especially in a canyon where reaching a shore isn’t always an option. I was fairly concerned for the other canoe, but fortunately we made it out without incident.

I never really know what the actual wind speed on the lake surface is so I judge based on numerous factors similar to Michwall2's great summary.

Solo: I can handle pretty strong wind and big waves if I'm heading into them or can set a nice wind ferry angle. Even then, I will make sure I have spots I can shelter (points, islands) to take regular breaks. However, if the wind is behind me, I'm much more cautious with the canoe I paddle (Wenonah Advantage) since it is a bit unpredictable. I had a day where I was powering into a strong wind just fine, but then realized that I was going to have to run with the wind later so I returned to my campsite before I got myself into trouble.

Tandem or 3P: Since I generally paddle with family and we are all strong paddlers, we haven't had a situation in the last 10 years where the wind/waves were too much. However, if I am with less experienced people, I'm much more conservative.

Like others have said, it's not wind speed, it's the state of the water, direction of the waves, and if I'm paddling tandem or solo.

I also consider the variability of the wind (occasional gusts versus steady wind) as well as the availability of islands or shoreline that can either provide shelter from the wind to allow paddling, or can offer a safe place to tuck into if the water gets big.

Mike

mgraber: "All good advice. I will add that one of the things that gets people in the most trouble is leaving from the shore where the wind is coming from and heading out across big water and thinking it looks pretty calm. Oftentimes you are excited to have a nice tail wind to push you along, but after traveling for a mile or two you find yourself in scarier and scarier waves and the LAST thing you want to do is try to turn around, but going forward means ever increasing waves. Don't get in that position. Quartering, following, large waves are the scariest as they are constantly trying to turn you sideways as they push you along. Starting from the windy side is better as you can judge accurately what you are dealing with and the waves will get smaller as you go. Just don't let yourself get sideways in large waves. Wind speed doesn't tell you all that much on it's own, although I would say you are always OK at 15 mph and sometimes OK at 25 mph, but above that I would use a lot of caution unless it was small water or somewhat protected."

Mrgraber very aptly describes the power of fetch. I would dispute that you are always ok at 15mph. I was out on Sea Gull Lake in what I would describe as a 5-10 mph very gentle breeze. I was completely surprised by the size of the waves that it was able to generate with 1.5-2 mile fetch. I was not mentally prepared to have to work as hard as I did to keep us on course. A 15(+)mph wind would have made that crossing hair-raising. I was very happy to find some islands to duck behind and enjoyed the rest of the paddle out.

Michwall2: "

mgraber: "All good advice. I will add that one of the things that gets people in the most trouble is leaving from the shore where the wind is coming from and heading out across big water and thinking it looks pretty calm. Oftentimes you are excited to have a nice tail wind to push you along, but after traveling for a mile or two you find yourself in scarier and scarier waves and the LAST thing you want to do is try to turn around, but going forward means ever increasing waves. Don't get in that position. Quartering, following, large waves are the scariest as they are constantly trying to turn you sideways as they push you along. Starting from the windy side is better as you can judge accurately what you are dealing with and the waves will get smaller as you go. Just don't let yourself get sideways in large waves. Wind speed doesn't tell you all that much on it's own, although I would say you are always OK at 15 mph and sometimes OK at 25 mph, but above that I would use a lot of caution unless it was small water or somewhat protected."

Mrgraber very aptly describes the power of fetch. I would dispute that you are always ok at 15mph. I was out on Sea Gull Lake in what I would describe as a 5-10 mph very gentle breeze. I was completely surprised by the size of the waves that it was able to generate with 1.5-2 mile fetch. I was not mentally prepared to have to work as hard as I did to keep us on course. A 15(+)mph wind would have made that crossing hair-raising. I was very happy to find some islands to duck behind and enjoyed the rest of the paddle out."

Agreed. Seagull gets nasty fast, So does Gabimichigami...we had a wild ride going west to east as the fetch picked up some big waves (note-we were expecting it and therefore had our strongest paddler in stern).

Side-note - the weatherman always seems to under-predict wind speed in canoe county. I always add a few mph to it.

Two long-fetch bays that empty out into a lake create a slightly opposing wave action - also not easy to deal with when the wind decides to straighten out because it isn’t being funneled and you are met with waves coming into you from different directions AND the wind is coming from yet another direction. Similar issue with bounce-back waves off a cliff-face from shore.

A quote from Keenan (Canoe The North): "It is always better to be on shore wishing you were on the water, than it is to be on the water, wishing you were on the shore."

PaddleIN: "A quote from Keenan (Canoe The North): "It is always better to be on shore wishing you were on the water, than it is to be on the water, wishing you were on the shore." "

And both are better than being IN the water and wishing you were on shore!

Depends if the canoe is loaded. Loaded not much. Not loaded white caps

Once you see whitecaps forming, you need to have a conversation with your canoe partner. It's not a hard limit but that's when it can start to get hairy. Your direction of travel, amount of open water, and how long of a stretch of open water the wind has to build up the waves all factors into our decisions to stay on shore or head out.

I've traveled pretty far with heavy winds before, and staying near shore really helps. It depends on the direction the wind is blowing and the shape of the lake, but usually you can get behind islands and points to get some shelter from the wind. Going against the wind is probably the safest, since the waves should be getting lighter as you paddle, with going with the wind as the next safest, but cross winds are risky. I'd rather tack a few times and travel further to avoid a cross wind.

Once we were on Pine traveling east to west, I don’t know what the wind speed was, but we probably shouldn’t have been out there. We made it, but it was exhausting. We were younger, and my husband was very confident in our abilities.

I know we’ve paddled into a 27 mph wind (checked the weather afterwards) and while physically tiring, it wasn’t nearly as scary as being pushed by strong winds, or hit broadside. This last weekend we were out camping, was wind bound Saturday afternoon, wind died at 11:30 pm, we were up at 5, packed, across the portage by 7. Winds were starting already. In the middle of the lake we were getting hit almost sideways which made for stressful paddling on a large lake - and the winds were only 10 mph which we usually consider safe paddling.
Everything is dependent on conditions, locations, and people’s experiences.

I mostly travel solo, but if I were someone else I would have to evaluate my partner's skills. I'd also consider wind gusts. 40mph gusts can sneak up on you and be a little disarming. As for soloing, the direction of the wind makes a difference for me. I'd rather paddle into the wind than paddle with the wind. But last year I was going into the wind on LLC with two foot rollers. I probably should have waited it out, but I went forward anyway. I wasn't taking on any water, so I kept going.

Thanks for all of the advice. We are both pretty strong paddlers so that's not really the issue. It's probably more about the wind/waves combo and some nerves. Travel days are the concern. We can always fish from shore and play cards or adjust travel schedules. We will be in for a week so there are options.

Brandon

My weekend trip (solo, Northwind Solo, loaded) standard bent carbon paddle (no kayak paddle) - smaller lakes - at most 1ft waves to the bow and 1.5ft waves from stern.

Can you paddle in 20mph winds? Yea. Should you? Depends.

Historical weather data from wunderground.com / Ely Station.

Overall, each day was right on the edge of being windbound - both headwind and tailwind days. As others have mentioned, fetch, direction, lake dynamics, etc. all play a part in getting windbound. Larger lakes with 2+ mile fetches and wide-open, I wouldn’t have been on the water.

Th - 17 gusting to 28 SSE
Generally head-on

Fri - 20 gusting to 32 WSW - short gusty periods
Whitecaps starting to roll over. Generally a tailwind, minor crossing tailwind off left shoulder, minor yawing of canoe from larger waves. Longest fetch 1.2mi. Several breaks behind islands.

Sat - 22 gusting to 30 W and WNW - long periods of gusts
Whitecaps rolling over. Head-on - at times forward momentum stopped. Some boat slap coming off a wave. This day was a grind - longest fetch was 3/4 mile, no islands to duck behind for breaks.

Sun - 14 gusting to 20 ESE
Whitecaps barely seen, or just starting to roll over. Tailwind and quartering away. During quartering away, moderate yawing from larger waves.

bfurlow: "Thanks for all of the advice. We are both pretty strong paddlers so that's not really the issue. It's probably more about the wind/waves combo and some nerves. Travel days are the concern. We can always fish from shore and play cards or adjust travel schedules. We will be in for a week so there are options.


Brandon"

The usual advice is to travel early in the day. The afternoons get windier as the land heats up and the warm air rises. Some days don't follow that pattern, but most do.

Happy wilderness tripping!

The motto testing gear before the trip is better than while on the trip comes to mind. Even if it isn't the canoe you will be using it helps having experience paddling on the not so nice days. And you can get a sense of your limits as well.
I have been paddling a Magic 12 years with a Werner Coryvecken bent shaft double blade. While flat calm water is a treat playing in the wind can be lots of fun. On a mid-April paddle wind was expected to die down after 3 and I put it with only a light wind heading upstream, wind at my back. I noted wind picking up about a mile or so upstream so turned (practice the dreaded turn with strong stern winds) and had a thrilling paddle back to the takeout. I was able to practice sudden side gusts, rounding points into funneled wind and wave, and paddling with side wind and waves. So much fun!

I always try to plan trips (and campsites) to have access to large and small water and don't get too hung up on getting to my final destination. Had days paddling around rivers that were fairly serene while the big water nearby was filled with dangerous waves.

shouldertripper: "

PaddleIN: "A quote from Keenan (Canoe The North): "It is always better to be on shore wishing you were on the water, than it is to be on the water, wishing you were on the shore." "

And both are better than being IN the water and wishing you were on shore!"

This pretty much sums up my whole approach to weather and canoeing. (Keenan's YouTube channel is one of my favorites)

Wind can be a relative term in the BWCA , as others have stated a lake like Seagull the wind may seem not bad from shore or a distance but the lay out of the lake/islands can whip the wind strong and in different directions & change very fast. One story,,, we were at the rog portage , and it was piss on a plate , i told everyone lets get going ASAP , one said why , i said i've only seen seagull like this one other time , lets take advantage of it , by the time we got to the landing we were in 2-3' white caps. Another example Ogish lake , it's hour glass shaped and you'll have the wind at your back then as you approach the narrows it will be full force in your face. And of course experience/endurance has a lot to do with your limitations !

I was coming out through Farm Lake last week and a cross wind was picking up as I crossed, some rollers. Quartered the waves, took me off course a bit, and went along the shore to the boat ramp.

shock: "Wind can be a relative term in the BWCA , as others have stated a lake like Seagull the wind may seem not bad from shore or a distance but the lay out of the lake/islands can whip the wind strong and in different directions & change very fast. One story,,, we were at the rog portage , and it was piss on a plate , i told everyone lets get going ASAP , one said why , i said i've only seen seagull like this one other time , lets take advantage of it , by the time we got to the landing we were in 2-3' white caps. Another example Ogish lake , it's hour glass shaped and you'll have the wind at your back then as you approach the narrows it will be full force in your face. And of course experience/endurance has a lot to do with your limitations ! "

Ayuh:


G-D South Wind!