Age old question. I’m taking my 2 nieces on their first trip this year. They’re in their 20’s, but not experienced at canoeing.

My last several trips I’ve been in a solo boat, either as a solo trip or as part of a trip with two friends. (We basically each have our own stuff except for a few shared items and travel together.)

I’m debating tandem + solo or 3-person. I’ll also have my dog along. Dog is useless when it comes to portaging or paddling but she’s pretty. I’m sure nieces will do their part. Still, uncertain about portaging a big ol’ threefer, but also uncertain about them having either 1 in a solo or 2 in a tandem. Dog I’m sure will be where I am.

Any wisdom to consider?

Only wisdom I can offer: “Labs make life better.”

If your nieces are inexperienced with canoeing, after this trip they won't be. Put them in a canoe together while you are in the solo, then change off so each gets a chance to try solo. Be patient as they may not travel as quickly as you.

If neither of your nieces has any experience in the stern seat, I'd suggest the 20' Northwind with the 4th seat removed. This will give you space for your dog. We used this for three guys last year and it worked well.

Two things to consider...the paddler in the middle seat has a LONG reach over the gunwale to get their paddle wet...so pick out one extra-long paddle, and have your nieces stagger their sitting positions so one is close to one gunwale and the other is close to the other.

The other issue with such a long canoe is that the paddler in the bow can't hear the stern paddler (you) if there is any wind at all. So the middle paddler ends up conveying a lot of messages.

Have a great trip!

I think both ideas presented will work…there isn’t an actual “right” answer.

I personally like having the solo and 2 nieces in their own canoe. Can they practice before the trip at all?

Either way they will most likely be very…very…slow…show patience. Don’t paddle a head and fish or explore. Then they are always chasing you and not getting a rest. In scouts we like to let the slowest person lead…otherwise the fastest get ahead, the the slower people catch up, then everyone takes off again…not a good experience for a slower adult or young scout…quick way to disengage them. So maybe try to have them lead and you follow…advise.

if you are trying to get some miles in…and they are just along for the ride then maybe the 3 person is a better option.

T

Long route or base camp?
Big water or small waters?

I was skeptical of the 3 seater. Thinking 2+1 was the way to go until we had to do it and realized the 3 seater is so much fun. I’d opt for that

We may do some big water, but I prefer smaller lakes. It’ll be a route rather than a base camp but probably one or two hangout days.

I’m not concerned about speed. I have a feeling they’ll be much faster on land, but I have the canoe experience. I do feel I can teach them as we go, but that doesn’t substitute for experience.

I've done nearly all my trips in a 3 seat Souris River. And I've led a few church trips.

With 20 year old women, I would agree with the 1 solo canoe and 1 double canoe. After a very short time, they will be capable in the double canoe.

And they should also be quite capable of portaging a double canoe. I've seen 10 year old girls portage canoes.

The third seat in a big canoe is tough to paddle from.


BUT... if you really want to just relax and visit, then a 3 person canoe would be nice. All three of you will be part of every conversation. You can take turns relaxing in the "princess seat" as my daughters call the middle seat.

To me so much of the experience is the ability to explore whenever/wherever I want. Having two canoes opens that up.

Although, safety above all else, so a couple trips around a local lake first would seem wise. Hoping all enjoy!

From the original post, it seems like portaging a 3 person canoe may be the main question. If that is the main concern, I'd suggest the tandem and solo. You could portage the tandem and one of them take the solo. As they get used to that, see if they can take the tandem. That gives you some flexibility, gives them a chance to enhance their paddling and portaging skills, and doesn't overwhelm anyone with carrying a big canoe.

I've taken trips with HS students and they have been more than capable of carrying a kevlar tandem.

I agree that there is no "right" answer to the number question.
The only "right" answers mentioned so far is to 1) get them out in a canoe before you go. I once took a day trip with a guy who had no business in a canoe. Every time we floated a small rapid (It was intended to be a light whitewater trip), the guy held his paddle over his head and leaned on one direction or other. Some folks seem like the type. But ain't.
AND 2) Be patient. Plan an itinerary that allows for that and it will be easier to execute the attitude once there.

Also...IF you decide for one canoe: Your crew would be fine in the right 18.5-ish hull. I did two trips last year in an 18.5-3 seater. I way 325 lbs and my other passengers were all at least 200. We went for at least a week both trips and covered a good bit of water, large and small.

Thanks, everyone, for the replies. I think we’re going to go with 2 canoes. Yes, portaging the big one is part of the issue. Not the weight as much as we’re all short. The short part can also make a difference on paddling.

I’d like to try a pre-trip test but we live in 3 different states.

Anyway, this trip will be the first where I’ve got the “young’ns” to come along, so I’m pretty excited about that.

sueb2b: "Thanks, everyone, for the replies. I think we’re going to go with 2 canoes. Yes, portaging the big one is part of the issue. Not the weight as much as we’re all short. The short part can also make a difference on paddling.


I’d like to try a pre-trip test but we live in 3 different states.


Anyway, this trip will be the first where I’ve got the “young’ns” to come along, so I’m pretty excited about that. "

Short? How short? I portage our NW20 and I’m 5’7”…. Never thought height was any sort of consideration for portage a canoe.

sueb2b: "Thanks, everyone, for the replies. I think we’re going to go with 2 canoes. Yes, portaging the big one is part of the issue. Not the weight as much as we’re all short. The short part can also make a difference on paddling.


I’d like to try a pre-trip test but we live in 3 different states.


Anyway, this trip will be the first where I’ve got the “young’ns” to come along, so I’m pretty excited about that. "

I think you made a wise choice. Take it easy and be patient, it’ll all work out fine. I really think the option for you to swap positions and roles offers such a great opportunity for them to be so much more engaged. There might be a little more risk with two boats but the reward is likely much greater. Best of luck and good on you for giving them this opportunity.

Tundra

Short? How short? I portage our NW20 and I’m 5’7”…. Never thought height was any sort of consideration for portage a canoe. "

I think I’m the tall one at 5’3” and shrinking. My nieces are petite little things. I’m just short. Climbing up or down with my stubby little legs can be an issue.

907Tundra: "I think you made a wise choice. Take it easy and be patient, it’ll all work out fine. I really think the option for you to swap positions and roles offers such a great opportunity for them to be so much more engaged. There might be a little more risk with two boats but the reward is likely much greater. Best of luck and good on you for giving them this opportunity.


Tundra"

Patience I got. I do think they’ll enjoy the experience, which is the goal.

I vote for the 3man.
You will spend more time with them and all portages will be easier
A Northstar Northwind 18 is light (48lbs?) and will have plenty of room.

Normally, I would agree with the 3 person canoe however here are some other factors to consider:

1. I don't think an 18 footer will do it with gear and a bigger dog. When we go with three people in an 18 footer there are 4 packs in the empty well and a person each per seat. Unless the dog is at the feet of the center seat how is this going to work?

1a. Corollary to 1 - Trimming a longer boat can be problematic.

2. I don't know what your relationship is like with these young ladies, but eventually, they are going to want to talk about young lady things and have other young female things to do. You will either put a damper on that or create an uncomfortable situation (mostly for you, but for everyone really). Sometimes they enjoy teasing/shocking a male? Like I said, what is the dynamic that will/might develop here.

3. Big water changes all this. Inexperience + big water + wind will create a need for you to be in the stern seat. Safety first.

4. The need for speed. I know you said that speed is not a factor, but perhaps a three seater would allow you to make a larger loop, cover more ground. Portaging the extra boat will take more time. Inexperienced paddlers will take more time. Several of the longer boats have speed profiles - e.g. 20' Minn III. No rocker and narrower.
Three people in a Minn III can cover some ground in a hurry. The longer boats are not necessarily a lot heavier, but just more awkward in some portaging situations. (Make sure the front of the boat comes out of the water first.). The weakness? Meandering rivers.

5. Will the nieces want to take a canoe and go off exploring by themselves? Maybe the tandem and solo would work better here?

6. Are there any scenarios where 3 solos would be the preferred option? Sometimes the double blades are more user friendly than the single.

There are lots of moving parts here. I would involve the nieces in the discussion/decision.

I hope you have a fast solo. 2 20 year old girls will leave you in the spray after a lake or two. Use a tandem with a straight keel line and they won’t have any problem paddling and going straight.
My Daughter had the rule at that age if a boy can do it she could do it better, and she did! She still portages the canoe for this old man.
HAVE FUN!
Carl

Michwall2: "Normally, I would agree with the 3 person canoe however here are some other factors to consider:

2. I don't know what your relationship is like with these young ladies, but eventually, they are going to want to talk about young lady things and have other young female things to do. You will either put a damper on that or create an uncomfortable situation (mostly for you, but for everyone really). Sometimes they enjoy teasing/shocking a male? Like I said, what is the dynamic that will/might develop here.

"

Just a hunch, but I think sue is not a male....probably.

LMAO

dogwoodgirl: "

Michwall2: "Normally, I would agree with the 3 person canoe however here are some other factors to consider:


2. I don't know what your relationship is like with these young ladies, but eventually, they are going to want to talk about young lady things and have other young female things to do. You will either put a damper on that or create an uncomfortable situation (mostly for you, but for everyone really). Sometimes they enjoy teasing/shocking a male? Like I said, what is the dynamic that will/might develop here.


"

Just a hunch, but I think sue is not a male....probably.


LMAO"

OK - Forgive a jet-lagged brain. Missed that clue (I guess that makes me clueless?)

dogwoodgirl: "Just a hunch, but I think sue is not a male....probably.


LMAO"

Not according to Johnny Cash!

Well played SNS!

In your scenario I would go with the 3 seater. I’ve never done it, but from my last trip, me in my Prism, no way I could keep up with 2 motivated 19 year old girls. And my buddy and his wife left me in the spray so to speak crossing Seagull Lake. It’s hard to keep up even with a yak paddle which I hate using cuz it makes a huge puddle in the boat at the end. Might be more fun to stick together. It’s all about making memories.
If you are staying on smaller lakes might not be an issue, but there is usually a decent paddle wherever you go.

Good Luck & have fun scat