Question- if the Thumb Fire is 15000+ acres and the Sioux Fire is near 11000, how is the Bear Trap fire only 13500 based on the following map? Especially if Whispering Pines Resort on the NE side of Big Lake is affected to the point of needing resources heard on the radio?



I will add important links from previous threads below.
Feel free to add.

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Fire WatchFire Map

CAl topo


Lake and St Louis CTY's radio chatter

Fire Maplive

Moose Lake web cam(Central%20Daylight%20Time)

They reported on WELY just a bit ago that Bear Trap is now 34,000 acres. It is getting dangerously close to Big Lake.

Thank you, White wolf for doing this. I appreciate you and the other experienced ones insights. It’s like watching the death of a loved one and waiting on the doctors to give their insight and advice. Thanks everyone.

According to Watch Duty, Bear Trap fire is 34,000 Acres.

Sekhar Padmanabhan • Staff Reporter

About 2 hours ago • Jul 16 at 12:09 PM

There was extreme fire behavior yesterday with crowning, torching, and spotting, per Superior National Forest.

Air quality is hazardous throughout the county. For people at higher risk due to medical conditions or other factors, N95 masks are available at the Lake County Service Center, 616 3rd Ave., Two Harbors during business hours (M-F 8-4), per Lake County - Minnesota on Facebook.

The fire is 34421.6 acres (in the U.S. and Canada) per the perimeter uploaded to the National Interagency Fire Center (NIFC), which is visible on the Watch Duty map under the Active Fire Perimeters map layer.

faby3003: "According to Watch Duty, Bear Trap fire is 34,000 Acres.


Sekhar Padmanabhan • Staff Reporter


About 2 hours ago • Jul 16 at 12:09 PM


There was extreme fire behavior yesterday with crowning, torching, and spotting, per Superior National Forest.


Air quality is hazardous throughout the county. For people at higher risk due to medical conditions or other factors, N95 masks are available at the Lake County Service Center, 616 3rd Ave., Two Harbors during business hours (M-F 8-4), per Lake County - Minnesota on Facebook.


The fire is 34421.6 acres (in the U.S. and Canada) per the perimeter uploaded to the National Interagency Fire Center (NIFC), which is visible on the Watch Duty map under the Active Fire Perimeters map layer."

The extreme fire behavior mentioned was evident in yday's radar loop which I posted ( in the previous thread-- in a loop ( serious ash plume) -- but I didn't not save the loop.

I thought the smoke in the twin cities was bad...I have family at our cottage in Grayling, MI right now and am astounded by the amount of smoke lingering over the UP and into mid-northern Michigan as well as Wisconsin. Unreal!

I had the same question, I'm guessing the 34k acres WELY stated is pretty close according to Cal Topo, how fortunate for all that that radio station is up and running just in time.

I think the Sioux, Thumb and Wolfpack fires will merge before this is over. Not much of a prediction, more of a statement.

I'm guessing the smoke has most aircraft grounded again today, not sure.

Some rain just crossed over the fires. Not enough, but a reason for some optimism.

CanoeViking: "Thank you, White wolf for doing this. I appreciate you and the other experienced ones insights. It’s like watching the death of a loved one and waiting on the doctors to give their insight and advice. Thanks everyone."

Ditto. This is deeply saddening. Even though fire is a natural part of the landscape there, this event is going to have a transformative effect on the place we love so much. Even the areas that don't get burned will be affected, because more people will be going to them.

Looks like the entire region north of the Echo Trail will be mostly burned. I just went through many of these lakes in June.

I have a permit for stuart August 14 :/ which seems to be smack dab in the middle of most of those fires.
We are planning alternatives. Just so incredibly grateful I have gotten to visit a lot of those areas these past few years. I'm so sad contentment and brigand are burnt up. They were truly some of the most beautiful lakes I've ever visited.

Deeznuts: "I have a permit for stuart August 14 :/ which seems to be smack dab in the middle of most of those fires.
We are planning alternatives. Just so incredibly grateful I have gotten to visit a lot of those areas these past few years. I'm so sad contentment and brigand are burnt up. They were truly some of the most beautiful lakes I've ever visited.



"

It’s hard to imagine this area opening this year.

egknuti: "

Deeznuts: "I have a permit for stuart August 14 :/ which seems to be smack dab in the middle of most of those fires.
We are planning alternatives. Just so incredibly grateful I have gotten to visit a lot of those areas these past few years. I'm so sad contentment and brigand are burnt up. They were truly some of the most beautiful lakes I've ever visited.




"

It’s hard to imagine this area opening this year. "

I agree with Eg, defiantly not by mid August.

Just curious, but when they say a fire is XX,XXX acres, do they mean active roaring acres or total burned thus far.? In other words, do they count the area that has already pretty much burned out when they state those acreage figures?

bsolak: "Just curious, but when they say a fire is XX,XXX acres, do they mean active roaring acres or total burned thus far.? In other words, do they count the area that has already pretty much burned out when they state those acreage figures?"

They are referring to the area impacted by fire, so actively burning, smoldering, and burnt.

egknuti: "Looks like the entire region north of the Echo Trail will be mostly burned. I just went through many of these lakes in June. "

I was planning a trip to Mudro for early October. Looks like I should've visited that area this spring. Dang.

NEIowapaddler: "

egknuti: "Looks like the entire region north of the Echo Trail will be mostly burned. I just went through many of these lakes in June. "

I was planning a trip to Mudro for early October. Looks like I should've visited that area this spring. Dang. "

Even if rain were to put out these fires today, the FS would most likely not open these areas due to safety concerns. Portages would need to be cleared and campsites would need to be rehabilitated. If you traveled this area before the closure, consider yourself lucky to have seen this beautiful land.

bsolak: "Just curious, but when they say a fire is XX,XXX acres, do they mean active roaring acres or total burned thus far.? In other words, do they count the area that has already pretty much burned out when they state those acreage figures?"

They mean total acres burned this far in the whole fire perimeter from the origin/start.

egknuti: "

NEIowapaddler: "

egknuti: "Looks like the entire region north of the Echo Trail will be mostly burned. I just went through many of these lakes in June. "

I was planning a trip to Mudro for early October. Looks like I should've visited that area this spring. Dang. "

Even if rain were to put out these fires today, the FS would most likely not open these areas due to safety concerns. Portages would need to be cleared and campsites would need to be rehabilitated. If you traveled this area before the closure, consider yourself lucky to have seen this beautiful land. "

I think the Thumb, Beartrap and Sioux fire will all eventually merge and burn everything north of the Echo trail. They have no chance at stopping this. They will be lucky if they can keep the Camp and Beartrap fires from merging. Gonna be way over half million acres burnt between BWCA and Quetico. I don't see it opening again this year.

Probably best not to speculate too much at this point. Best case scenarios likely won't happen, and worst case ones just serve to upset people even more than they already are. Time will tell.

NEIowapaddler: "Probably best not to speculate too much at this point. Best case scenarios likely won't happen, and worst case ones just serve to upset people even more than they already are. Time will tell. "

People always seem to get very pessimistic when this happens and talk like the entire northern 1/3 of the state is going to burn up. I would point out that the fires really don't appear to be growing the last few days. This is based on studying FIRMS satellite photos. The Thumb fire even got some rain earlier in the week and the Quetico got a little today I believe. No, the fires are not out, but they aren't making any big runs either. Next week looks pretty good with temps in the 50's at night and low 80's during the day with chances of rain here and there. Just hang in there, we'll get some rain before we get some more red flag warnings, I hope. My personal prediction ,based on nothing but past experience, is that the footprints we see now are pretty much what we are going to wind up with. I may be wrong but that's my gut feeling.

None of the maps/sources I am checking are showing the Little Knife fire boundary at all. I am reading it's made it south to Ogish, but haven't seen it mapped like the other fires. Anyone know the reasoning?

OgimaaBines: "

bsolak: "Just curious, but when they say a fire is XX,XXX acres, do they mean active roaring acres or total burned thus far.? In other words, do they count the area that has already pretty much burned out when they state those acreage figures?"

They are referring to the area impacted by fire, so actively burning, smoldering, and burnt."

To add to OgimaaBines. within the burn scar there will likely be islands of unburned fuel. These islands will still be counted in the acreage.

So much technology.... just build more fire fighting helicopters.
Its not like they won't be used..
A jr. College in Dubuque Iowa is offering a 2 year program to fly a helicopters..
Young kids or not so young but capable... jump on that.....

Supposed to be a shortage of 66k helicopter jobs. Damn wish i was younger.....
But im not..... just thinkin
Young kids.......
OPPORTUNITY

Raining like gangbusters right now.

Radar estimated rainfall totals through 7:38am - still raining mainly Ely and areas E

I see it’s pissing rain in Ely. How much can we expect this to help? We have an Aug 27 entry into Moose and hoping things will be good by then. Definitely keeping the community up there in mind, getting an EP axed has nothing on what those folks are going through.

Smoke Plume seen on radar from 2am to 5am 7/15/26

paddlindrew: "I see it’s pissing rain in Ely. How much can we expect this to help? We have an Aug 27 entry into Moose and hoping things will be good by then. Definitely keeping the community up there in mind, getting an EP axed has nothing on what those folks are going through. "

as of 0700 Crane lake got 0.8 inches and Winton 0.28 inches.

shouldertripper: "None of the maps/sources I am checking are showing the Little Knife fire boundary at all. I am reading it's made it south to Ogish, but haven't seen it mapped like the other fires. Anyone know the reasoning? "

I'm also curious about the zone on the US side of the Little Knife fire. I'm only able to determine hot spots from some of these maps, but not a fire border. Anyone have a link (or a pic) they can share of how far that one has crept?

Keep that rain going!! *rain dances in place*

And thank you WhiteWolf for the new thread!

Yeah I have a september trip planned out of seagull and I am really interested in how Ogish and Kekabec are doing!

LiquorPugs: "

shouldertripper: "None of the maps/sources I am checking are showing the Little Knife fire boundary at all. I am reading it's made it south to Ogish, but haven't seen it mapped like the other fires. Anyone know the reasoning? "

I'm also curious about the zone on the US side of the Little Knife fire. I'm only able to determine hot spots from some of these maps, but not a fire border. Anyone have a link (or a pic) they can share of how far that one has crept?


Keep that rain going!! *rain dances in place*"

The USFS updates have mentioned they have not been able to fly a plane to map the Little Knife fire due to low visibility. Hopefully that will happen today.

I’m not sure about actual rainfall that reached the ground, but my weather app is saying .85” of rain fell in Ely and surrounding area this morning. I believe that’s more than was forecasted, I hope it helps with slowing fire progress. It also appears that the fires turned a bit and started moving west overnight.

Tony

According to the linked article, Ely had 1.78 inches of rainfall between June 1 and July 16, yesterday. So .8 inches in one morning would be significant percentage wise.

Can somebody with more knowledge talk about the significance of .8 inches as it relates to the fires.
N MN Drought

The amount of rain that dropped on the fires this morning was substantial. You can bet it will change the fire behavior today significantly.

Almost like prayers were answered. Funny how that happens?!
Tom

Quick fire question for those who are knowledgeable,

Do mature white and red pines usually burn down in fires similar to these? I’ve been doing a bit of research online but I’m taking that with a grain of salt due to the circumstances of drought and abundance of fuel.

Rain Drops keep falling on your head

Young1: "Quick fire question for those who are knowledgeable,


Do mature white and red pines usually burn down in fires similar to these? I’ve been doing a bit of research online but I’m taking that with a grain of salt due to the circumstances of drought and abundance of fuel. "

When I drive on Highway 1 through the Greenwood fire area (fire was in 2021), there are many mature red and white pines still standing and looking healthy. After the fire these trees had some charred areas on their trunks. Definitely hope that mature trees will survive, but I'm sure in areas where the fire is very hot even healthy mature trees will die.

Young1: "Quick fire question for those who are knowledgeable,


Do mature white and red pines usually burn down in fires similar to these? I’ve been doing a bit of research online but I’m taking that with a grain of salt due to the circumstances of drought and abundance of fuel. "

Red and white pines are fire resistant species and are adapted to low intensity fires. The problem is that because we have been putting fires out for the last 100 years, our forests have built up a thick organic layer and worse, an understory of small balsam fir. Even healthy, green balsam fir go up like gasoline, so when they burn, the fire spreads into the crown of the pines.

I think the amount of fuel that is currently in our forests in the BWCA is a bigger factor than climate change.

brp: "According to the linked article, Ely had 1.78 inches of rainfall between June 1 and July 16, yesterday. So .8 inches in one morning would be significant percentage wise.


Can somebody with more knowledge talk about the significance of .8 inches as it relates to the fires.
N MN Drought "

I was on the Pagami Fire and we received over two inches of rain after the blow up.
We continued to actively fight the wildfire until late fall. I still don't know all the rain totals but an inch of rain will slow most growth for several days this time of year. It will take alot more than an inch to really hammer this fire hard.

marsonite: "

Young1: "Quick fire question for those who are knowledgeable,



Do mature white and red pines usually burn down in fires similar to these? I’ve been doing a bit of research online but I’m taking that with a grain of salt due to the circumstances of drought and abundance of fuel. "

Red and white pines are fire resistant species and are adapted to low intensity fires. The problem is that because we have been putting fires out for the last 100 years, our forests have built up a thick organic layer and worse, an understory of small balsam fir. Even healthy, green balsam fir go up like gasoline, so when they burn, the fire spreads into the crown of the pines.


I think the amount of fuel that is currently in our forests in the BWCA is a bigger factor than climate change. "

When shade tolerant climax species like Balsam Fir take over the risk of fire goes up especially in a artificial park situation like Wabakimi creating the situation that unfolded with Dryden 13. Diane Laybourne described the situation in Armstrong Station after being evacuated for the first time in 65 years of living in the community.

marsonite: "Red and white pines are fire resistant species and are adapted to low intensity fires. The problem is that because we have been putting fires out for the last 100 years, our forests have built up a thick organic layer and worse, an understory of small balsam fir. Even healthy, green balsam fir go up like gasoline, so when they burn, the fire spreads into the crown of the pines.


I think the amount of fuel that is currently in our forests in the BWCA is a bigger factor than climate change. "

I agree. As I mentioned in another thread, MN is far from alone in this position. California for one has been dealing with years of catastrophic fires driven largely by all the fuel that has accumulated over a century of forest mismanagement. In any forest where fire is a natural part of the landscape you basically have two choices - small fires more often, or large fires less often.

Forest management or climate change?

shouldertripper: "Little Knife fire boundary"

CalTopo

Watchduty also recently added the Little Knife perimeter.

NASA has it as well.

Looks like the Beartrap Fire spread westward early this morning, otherwise pretty quiet today.

shouldertripper: "None of the maps/sources I am checking are showing the Little Knife fire boundary at all. I am reading it's made it south to Ogish, but haven't seen it mapped like the other fires. Anyone know the reasoning? "

''





I'm seeing maps. Looks like it is down by Jenny and Annie. East end of Ogish burned in Ham Lake fire if I am not mistaken.

I am sure hoping Ester made it. It did not look good a few days ago but now I am holding my breath.

https://firemap.live/

https://wfca.com/fire-map/detection/edfb6ea50106575b?lng=-91.122&lat=48.125&zoom=10.83