Interesting that both Quetico and the BWCAW continue to require physical check-ins to obtain permits. Same goes for Killarney PP. Algonquin park permits, on the other hand, are obtained online and no check-in is required for back country camping. You just print them and carry them with you.

I looked up the reason for this dichotomy in Ontario. One explanation given was that Algonquin possesses modern technology which captures licence plates. That's horse manure because there's dozens of back country access roads to remote admission points that clearly don't have this technology installed.

Another reason is that online permits necessitate the abandonment of face to face policy presentations by personnel prior to camping. From memory while reserving in Algonquin last year, there was a one-pager of "required" reading of park rules, regs and best practices prior to printing your permit. Are face to face presentations really all that effective? This is one of this good intention vs actual results discussions where, in my opinion, that latter is clearly the priority.

Anyway, if that horse has left the barn for Algonquin, what's the hold up elsewhere - at least in Ontario parks? It sure would make life easier for Beaverhouse and US entry point visitors.

I don't think the videos they make you watch when you pick up a BWCA permit make one iota of difference for anyone. The people who are respectful of other folks and of the wilderness will behave the same way even without the videos, as will the miscreants. I still enjoy talking with the outfitters when picking up my permit, but wish they'd do away with the silly videos.

My last 2 trips they had me watch 2 - 3 minute videos online with a very pleasant woman narrating. It couldn’t have been any easier. I picked up the permits at VNO & Seagull Outfitters but I always do that. Geez I swear some people will complain if their ice cream is cold…

scat: "Geez I swear some people will complain if their ice cream is cold…"

Love it--I'm stealing that line. As a volunteer trail maintainer, I usually say "some people would whine about free beer at the trailhead"...

TZ

scat: "My last 2 trips they had me watch 2 - 3 minute videos online with a very pleasant woman narrating. It couldn’t have been any easier. "

Ha, your are talking about Nancy, my buddies wife, he is the retired FMO/Fire Management Officer on the West side of the Superior NF and 20 year Smoke Jumper. She is easy on the eyes but don't let it fool you, she will write anyone up in a minute.
She was one of the four rangers that got caught up in the burn over on Insula Lake during the Pagami fire.

That’s cool! Insula, or that Lake 4 scariness on the island? Or was it 3? I forget exactly.

I’d really like to bump into her in the woods - a local star! I thought she was a paid actress!

Speaking of miscreants…does the NFS publish violator data?

LindenTree: "

scat: "My last 2 trips they had me watch 2 - 3 minute videos online with a very pleasant woman narrating. It couldn’t have been any easier. "

Ha, your are talking about Nancy, my buddies wife, he is the retired FMO/Fire Management Officer on the West side of the Superior NF and 20 year Smoke Jumper. She is easy on the eyes but don't let it fool you, she will write anyone up in a minute.
She was one of the four rangers that got caught up in the burn over on Insula Lake during the Pagami fire."

Exo:

I’d really like to bump into her in the woods - a local star! I thought she was a paid actress!
"

Definitely not an actress, she works out of the Kawishiwi RD, she must be close to retirement, She was there when I worked out of the Isabella Work Station in the early 2,000's

LindenTree: "

scat: "My last 2 trips they had me watch 2 - 3 minute videos online with a very pleasant woman narrating. It couldn’t have been any easier. "

She was one of the four rangers that got caught up in the burn over on Insula Lake during the Pagami fire."

I remember that. She had to deploy her potato.
That story was scary as sh*t.
Tom

This is the video I was trying to remember - yes - Insula. This crew recently went to the island they made their stand on and brought a fire shelter along.

YouTube Video

They used to give out I watch the video cards.

So, on repeat trips show them the card.

Go on your way.

I thought the one-year expiration was a little short.

For people who have been tripping for years.

scat: "My last 2 trips they had me watch 2 - 3 minute videos online with a very pleasant woman narrating. It couldn’t have been any easier. I picked up the permits at VNO & Seagull Outfitters but I always do that. Geez I swear some people will complain if their ice cream is cold…"

Who's complaining?

It's funny they don't have a section on boats entering the BWCA on motor lakes.I was not allowed to cross Prarie this year because my trolling motor was mounted on the front of my 16 ft lund. . But more on that later.. I can't believe boaters wound be that dumb or inconsiderate. Maybe fire related

I don't see the in-person pickup requirement going anywhere, although it would significantly streamline my operation. The USFS wants it because they want to have the opportunity to educate people on the rules. Outfitters probably like that it gets even people like me who own all the gear in their doors where they might make a purchase. For most groups and situations, it's a minor inconvenience at most. Since I like visiting PMAs, it can become a major inconvenience sometimes because the pickup locations are so limited.

It's definitely a money grab in the BWCA. The outfitter industry is a large part of the economy. Now that you can't pick up a permit at a ranger station it's funneling even more people to the outfitters. You don't have to spend any money there when you pick up your permit, but most will.

I don't think that's a bad thing. Especially this year those outfitters need all of our support.

A lot of folks are talking here lately about other people breaking the rules. It seems to be a consensus that the wonderfully produced videos of today and yesteryear are not affective at educating people. What can we do to change that? I think taking away the in-person requirement, the video watching, the quiz etc will make the matter worse.

Carbonfiber: "They used to give out I watch the video cards.


So, on repeat trips show them the card.


Go on your way.


I thought the one-year expiration was a little short.


For people who have been tripping for years."

Completely agree. 50+ trips since 1978. Maybe I could skip the videos...

Mike

Z4K: "A lot of folks are talking here lately about other people breaking the rules. It seems to be a consensus that the wonderfully produced videos of today and yesteryear are not affective at educating people. What can we do to change that? I think taking away the in-person requirement, the video watching, the quiz etc will make the matter worse."

I think they are better than nothing, but some people just won't care about them even if forced to watch. Not much can really be done about that outside of additional enforcement presence.

I had one of those cards when I was doing 2-3 trips a year. Again, my last 2 trips, last Sept, June this year, I was asked to watch 2-3 minute videos on line, once when I got the permit and I think like 2 weeks before put in date. So twice, but it’s cool have a cup of coffee and watch a BW video. Was never asked to watch it again while picking up the permit at the outfitter, they can tell you are experienced. Even if you have to watch the videos it is 6 minutes of your time. Oh the outrage…. I don’t get it.

tumblehome: "

LindenTree: "

scat: "My last 2 trips they had me watch 2 - 3 minute videos online with a very pleasant woman narrating. It couldn’t have been any easier. "

She was one of the four rangers that got caught up in the burn over on Insula Lake during the Pagami fire."

I remember that. She had to deploy her potato.
That story was scary as sh*t.
Tom"

What’s a potato?

I recognized our outfitter in the video.

Samsquatch: "What’s a potato?


I recognized our outfitter in the video. "

Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a "potato baker" is slang for the emergency fire shelters wildland firefighters carry in case of burn-over. Sometimes they can be lifesavers, other times...not.