Okay, folks, the Yeti is not paranoid--and if this topic has surfaced earlier, please just direct me to where I should go to read the thread--but the buzz is (no pun intended) that Homeland Security, DoD, and ICE are flying drones along the US-Canadian-Mexican borders. That's not new. But, what IS new is the steady increase in the last two seasons of low flying (observable) drones, drone engine noise that can be heard during calm/still weather periods, blackhawk helicopter, and treetop jet activity. Has anyone else experienced/observed/viewed any of these activities? Just curious.

Thinking of bringing some of that cheap Winnipeg Marijuana over the border for a quick buck?

Well if that is your question, people do it all the time. Have fun on the Quetico side, Beaverhouse EP is remote and so is enforcement.

That would totally suck to have the peace and quite interrupted by an F16 doing Mach 2 over our campsite. Or a blackhawk, which are LOUD! I have read stories, but never experienced any of that. So far, the most disturbing man-made noise other than other paddlers has been sea planes heading up to Lac LaCroix.

Nothing nefarious going on, just find military activity within the BW an unnecessary intrusion, especially when it involves heavy equipment (and I've been buzzed by fighter jets before in other wilderness areas--it'll scare the bejesus out of you and make you wet yourself all at the same time before you know what's happening!) and there's no immediate emergency behind it. I also find it unsettling that I'm being watched from the Eye in the Sky by a bored stick jockey from a bunker in Grand Forks....

The only border enforcement I have noticed in the BWCA has not actually been in the BWCA. I have seen Dept. of Homeland Security/Board rder Agent trucks at the Kawishiwi Station outside of Ely. Beyond that I have never seen an eye in the sky while in the BWCA, although I heard they do patrol along the US-Canadian border.

Just posted the other day on another thread that my group saw flashing red and green lights hovering in the general direction of the border last year. It was two sets of them.

The folks on the Tumblehome podcast have mentioned the increase of airplane sightings

I got stopped by the border patrol. We were riding the border on the Canadian side on the edge of the bwca. We pulled on to Gunflint Lake and I got chassed by the Helicopter. It over took me and I stopped. I was going about 80 mph. I thought they were going to try and pinch me for ridding in the B-Dub. But no they had followed our tracks in from Canada and along the bwca. We had our papers in order, rabcp. We talked flying for awhile while they had lunch on the lake. I have also seen the helicopters in the summer. They fly out of North Dakota.

cowboymac12: "That would totally suck to have the peace and quite interrupted by an F16 doing Mach 2 over our campsite. Or a blackhawk, which are LOUD! I have read stories, but never experienced any of that. So far, the most disturbing man-made noise other than other paddlers has been sea planes heading up to Lac LaCroix."

That's happened to me when hiking in the Cascades on two occasions. I think the rationale is likely that since this is government land, practicing these maneuvers will be less intrusive. It scared the living daylights out of my brother the first time it happened. Frankly it sounded like half of a mountain caved in or a volcano erupted. We were ready for it the second time later that evening. It was surreal to see a plane flying in absolute silence overhead, and then about five seconds later to hear it.

Bushpilot: " We talked flying for awhile while they had lunch on the lake. I have also seen the helicopters in the summer. They fly out of North Dakota."

Gotta love those A Stars--I've flown to 16,700 in one (yes, the pilot had O2), and they can fly a lot higher (e.g. rescues at 20,000 feet on Denali, touching down on Everest summit at 29,029). Impressive critters.

there has always been illegal activity along the northern border, coast-to-coast, it just hasn't received the same publicity as the more active southern border. i would expect more northern enforcement as the US tightens up the southern border and forces illegal activity to other locations.

i traveled the border roads from Texas to Arizona a couple years ago, and was absolutely astounded by what i saw in the way of enforcement activity. when you see our guys starting a foot patrol 30 miles inside the USA, and they're armed to the teeth and equipped as if on patrol in Afghanistan, kinda makes ya think that there's way more than poor people running around in the desert.

according to the locals, considerably more shooting going on than ever makes the news, better hope it doesn't start up north. drones?, heck, the southern border has drones, blimps, plus every kind of fixed wing and rotary aircraft in the inventory. they're not worried about your solitude as they patrol over park land or national forests.

I swear we had a drone fly over us at night on Gabbro in October 2011 but attributed to the Pagami fire.

Have also heard (and seen) the F-16s out of Duluth before. They routinely do training flights south of the wilderness.

I saw drones twice in 2015 on Crooked just south of the border. I couldn't hear them, but was able to verify them with binoculars.

I would love to see an F-16 buzzing to Treetops at Mach 2

landoftheskytintedwater:

Have also heard (and seen) the F-16s out of Duluth before. They routinely do training flights south of the wilderness."

The Duluth Bulldogs train-dogfight with f16s just south of the bwca in the Isabella area. They call the training area "snoopy" MOA military operation area. The jets are supposed to operate above 6000 ft above sea level.

Other aircraft are supposed to stay above 4000 ft above sea level over the bwca. 4000 ft above sea level is about 2000 ft above ground level over the B-Dub. This does not apply to border patrol.

In June of 2018 I was resting in camp on McAree when the First Nations people came past in a motor boat as they’re allowed to do. A few minutes later I heard a higher pitched motor, which turned out to be a drone. I stood up and threw it the one-fingered peace sign as it flew past, directly overhead.

Later, I was out canoeing and I ran into the owner of the drone. He said he was using the drone to follow the boat belonging to the First Nations so that he could see where the good fishing spots were. A real sportsman no doubt.

My understanding is that drones are outlawed in the BW but legal in the Q.

Where is Sigurd Olson when we need him? This ain’t the singing I want in the “wilderness”.

Not a BW occurrence but in 85 I was hiking up Black mountain at Philmont Scout Ranch and a f15 made three passes by our group.
The first pass he was above us, 2nd pass he was at eye level, and the 3rd he was below us.
At the time it was pretty cool to watch, I think i'd have more of a mixed reaction now. Disappointed at the intrusion on the wilderness, but my aviation geek would still think it was pretty cool to watch a high speed pass at eye level and below us.

Not in the BWCA but I took this photo around 1983. I was setting up to take the usual photo of Splitrock Lighthouse and I heard this roar approaching. Two F-4 Phantom jets made a close flyby. I managed to catch the second one. The original is Kodachrome slide film.

Out of crane going through the narrows, in a small fishing boat loaded to the hills, my cousin pointed to the border patrol helicopter. They swooped and buzzed us a couple times. And wouldn’t you know there was a couple us border patrol at the Canadian outfitters. Yeah, yeah... not bwca... but crossing the border or riding the border this day and age you can’t be to surprised. More surprising is when one of them old yellow tankers swoop down and scoop up a load of water in front of you. Those are no longer in service here.

srust58: "


Not in the BWCA but I took this photo around 1983. I was setting up to take the usual photo of Splitrock Lighthouse and I heard this roar approaching. Two F-4 Phantom jets made a close flyby. I managed to catch the second one. The original is Kodachrome slide film."

This is the picture the pilot was after.

I was intercepted by 2 f16s of the Bulldogs. 1 on my tail the other overtook me and cut in front of me. Less than 100 yards from me.

Great picture you took!

Bushpilot: "

srust58: "



Not in the BWCA but I took this photo around 1983. I was setting up to take the usual photo of Splitrock Lighthouse and I heard this roar approaching. Two F-4 Phantom jets made a close flyby. I managed to catch the second one. The original is Kodachrome slide film."

This is the picture the pilot was after.

I was intercepted by 2 f16s of the Bulldogs. 1 on my tail the other overtook me and cut in front of me. Less than 100 yards from me."

I think I might be a bit pissed. Seems reckless for them to approach a civilian aircraft in such a manner and and so close.

I remember camping On the Baptism River in the mid 70's long before the state park was developed. You could just park your car beside the highway and we would backpack in upriver and camp for the weekend. Two B-52's made a flyover at low altitude.

A couple of months ago I was reading an interview with an air force pilot who was training in (pretty sure) California. He would fly his jet at night over lakes where people would camp and he described how when he saw a campfire he would turn off his engine and glide in on the lake and turn on the after burners right as he approached the lakeside campers. Talk about being scared to death!

TomT: "A couple of months ago I was reading an interview with an air force pilot who was training in (pretty sure) California. He would fly his jet at night over lakes where people would camp and he described how when he saw a campfire he would turn off his engine and glide in on the lake and turn on the after burners right as he approached the lakeside campers. Talk about being scared to death!


"

If I recall, they were trying create UFO sightings by doing that..

The F-4 over split rock was back in the days of when the 148th flew RF-4C's =Reconnaissance 4F's... Come in Fast and scraping the tree tops.. During that time, There were quite a few places in northern MN/WI that got "buzzed" be it homes, boats ect..

TomT: "A couple of months ago I was reading an interview with an air force pilot who was training in (pretty sure) California. He would fly his jet at night over lakes where people would camp and he described how when he saw a campfire he would turn off his engine and glide in on the lake and turn on the after burners right as he approached the lakeside campers. Talk about being scared to death!
"

Yep, I saw a F-15 flying over our fire encampment about 1,000 feet above ground level in 1996. I was on a fire assignment in the wilderness area of Sequoia Kings Canyon National Parks of California, 12 hiking miles from the nearest road, he didn't turn on the after burners
The jet simply flew over our work area without hardly making a sound. It was amazing how big it looked in contrast to the nearby mountians, it couldn't have been a few thousand feet away from us.
We called it into dispatch, and after some time we got no official word of its presence.

TomT: "A couple of months ago I was reading an interview with an air force pilot who was training in (pretty sure) California. He would fly his jet at night over lakes where people would camp and he described how when he saw a campfire he would turn off his engine and glide in on the lake and turn on the after burners right as he approached the lakeside campers. Talk about being scared to death!


"

A tale I heard when I lived in NYC:

Pilots used Shea Stadium as an approach marker to land at LaGuardia Airport. When there was a Mets game being played, commercial jet pilots would be known to tune in the baseball game on their radio, then accelerate (I'm sorry I don't know the technical term, but "turn up their engines very briefly") so they could hear their own plane on the radio.

Or so goes the tale I learned during my residence in NYC.

Mike

srust58: "


Not in the BWCA but I took this photo around 1983. I was setting up to take the usual photo of Splitrock Lighthouse and I heard this roar approaching. Two F-4 Phantom jets made a close flyby. I managed to catch the second one. The original is Kodachrome slide film."

You are mistaken, what you captured here is a large northern MN mosquito. They have been known to carry off small children and pets.

Kidding, obviously, but that is a really cool picture. Thanks for sharing :)

Last summer there was a bit of a crime spree in Canada and the murderous pair were straight north of the BWCA, though it turned out they were really far north. The Border Patrol came back the cabin access road at McFarland off of the Arrowhead, with full gear and automatic weapons to take a look around every cabin, just in case they managed to cross the border through the wilderness. I wondered if we might see some sort of drone fly by heading over the BWCA.

The BP and the Air Force run regular ops along the border, to include the BWCAW and most of northern MN. They’re usually pretty good about not flying low or buzzing people. But every once in a while they get a pilot on temporary reassignment from somewhere else who pushes the limits.

Legally, they can do whatever they feel like doing in the furtherance of their mission. However, The “local” authorities - like the BP operating the Grand Forks sector (which includes MN) tries to mitigate “incidents” and would rather not have folks even know they’re there.

Again, some pilots push it. I’m reminded of an incident a few years back where a Blackhawk decided to do some wildlife watching over the Agassiz Wildlife Refuge near Thief River Falls. They hovered about 3 feet off the ground and scared the living daylights out of every critter in a 3 mile radius. It had to be (patiently) explained to the pilot the purpose of a wildlife REFUGE and how doing what he did, in the dead of winter, wasn’t exactly healthy for animals living in subzero conditions, trying to maintain their energy levels and survive the season.

If they had been on some kind of actual mission or operation, it would have been different, but not just while joyriding.

I was buzzed early one morning while in the Aravaipa Canyon wilderness in southeast Arizona. It is a remote, beautiful area with only a few BLM entry permits per day. It isn’t exactly a slot canyon, but still tight and deep enough that whatever fighter jet ripped through the canyon low and tight was a deafening experience.

Still not happy about that experience. I really don’t think that they need to be that low in a wilderness area. Or if there is a real justification, it should be limited to the low season when the monsoon flash flood possibility keeps most reasonable people out of the canyon.

srust58: "
Not in the BWCA but I took this photo around 1983. I was setting up to take the usual photo of Splitrock Lighthouse and I heard this roar approaching. Two F-4 Phantom jets made a close flyby. I managed to catch the second one. The original is Kodachrome slide film."

The same thing happened to my brother and me. We were at the same spot you were at. The jet came from the other direction so we could not hear him coming. We were sitting on the rocks down by the beach when all of a sudden the jet came out and then turned so we could see the after burners light up. So one minute it was waves and birds, then a jet engine at the same distance as your picture.

Savage Voyageur: "

srust58: "



Not in the BWCA but I took this photo around 1983. I was setting up to take the usual photo of Splitrock Lighthouse and I heard this roar approaching. Two F-4 Phantom jets made a close flyby. I managed to catch the second one. The original is Kodachrome slide film."

The same thing happened to my brother and I. We were at the same spot you were at. The jet came from the other direction so we could not hear him coming. We were sitting on the rocks down by the beach when all of a sudden the jet came out and then turned so we could see the after burners light up. So one minute it was waves and birds, then a jet engine at the same distance as your picture. "

If you look closely at the photo you can see two people at the edge of the cliff in front of the lighthouse. They had even better seats than us looking down on the aircraft.

We were staying on Bald Eagle in 2018. A military jet flew over the lake with a sonic boom. Wasn't expecting that and wow, scared the crap out of me. Barely seen the plane it was going so darn fast. Sure was cool though!

I was driving down to the Keys in Florida on Card Sound Road about 30 years ago to go diving and fishing. It was about 5 A.M. and we had 2 military jets fly about 50 feet over our heads, buzzing the mangroves out of Homestead. It scared the heck out of us. Totally unexpected.

Drones suck. I hate them with a passion.

I think they should be banned. Is it legal to throw rocks at them if they buzz you? Asking for a friend.

Portage99: "Drones suck. I hate them with a passion.


I think they should be banned. Is it legal to throw rocks at them if they buzz you? Asking for a friend."

Obviously your friend has serious anger issues and should seek professional help, the fact that anyone would think that throwing rocks at a drone hovering above them is acceptable is almost unbelievable to me, not to mention the fact that throwing a rock in the air could cause serious injury. A rock should never be used as a substitute for a well aimed shotgun.

I've only seen 1 aircraft over the BWCA in the last 10 years of trips up there.
It's not your/my private property so getting pissed about it seems misguided.
Simple answer, if you don't like it don't go. I get irrationally annoyed when people try to get me to sing karaoke....thus I don't go to karaoke bars.....lol

Fortunately drones are not allowed in the BWCA.

That’s hilarious! Thanks for a great laugh today.

nooneuno: "

Portage99: "Drones suck. I hate them with a passion.

I think they should be banned. Is it legal to throw rocks at them if they buzz you? Asking for a friend."

Obviously your friend has serious anger issues and should seek professional help, the fact that anyone would think that throwing rocks at a drone hovering above them is acceptable is almost unbelievable to me, not to mention the fact that throwing a rock in the air could cause serious injury. A rock should never be used as a substitute for a well aimed shotgun.