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CIIcanoe
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08/01/2009 09:37AM
I posted on my blog some information on our upcoming 21 day canoe trip to parts of the “Little North” that Dave Phillips (jdrocks)and I are doing beginning August 16.

Dave will be bringing his SPOT and we will have it in tracking mode, so it’s possible to see where we are during the trip. The SPOT link is on my blog in the post for Saturday, August 1, 2009.

Chuck

Info on the trip
CIIcanoe.com
 
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wetcanoedog
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08/01/2009 10:16AM
is the book with the routes thru the little north out yet?
looks like quite a trip..good luck
fishnfreak
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08/01/2009 11:13AM
I may be called stupid for this, but what is the "Little North"?
CIIcanoe
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08/01/2009 11:36AM
wetcanoedog,

I think you are referring to, Canoe Atlas of the Little North, by Jonathan Berger and Thomas Terry. I think this has been out for a couple years.

I wouldn’t call it a book with routes that many people would associate with the Beymer books or similar books describing the different routes. This book has several topo maps reduced to a scale of 1:400.000 scale. It has a general location of where the portages have been in the past and other possible portages. This area is a boreal forest and the bush is constantly changing. Although on these maps it might show there’s a portage, but it may or not be there. It might be completely impassable if in fact it’s there.

When traveling through the “Little North" or any area not travel that often one has to rely on many different sources for information. Again, things are always changing and the latest information still might be outdated.

fishnfreak,

The “Little North” is an area north of Lake Superior and south of the Hudson Bay. The eastern boundary is James Bay and the western boundary is Lake Winnipeg. In the early days the fur traders called it, “Le Petit Nord”.

The area north and west of Lake Winnipeg was referred to as “Le Grand Nord”

Here are a couple photos.


The red markings are probably a portage and the gray shows this might be a portage. Again, just by looking at these marked portages on the map doesn't tell you too much.

Chuck

CIIcanoe.com
CIIcanoe
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08/01/2009 12:03PM
On my blog I posted that there were going to be unknowns south of the Albany River starting with Petawa Creek.

Here is a post from mycrr.com:

CII Canoe:
The route you are proposing to take is about as wild as it it gets.

Rick Pargeter did the trip from the Albany through Petawa Creek to Auger in August 2007. You might want to ask him how he made out through there.

From Hurst through Felsia, and on up the Witchwood River and Lake to Whiteclay Lake is about as hard assed as it gets. The few portages that go around the non runnable chutes on this section of the Witchwood River are all clear and useable, but there are no portages around the runnable chutes/rapids for upstream travellers.

Out of Felsia going south there are about 14 disturbances on the River that need to be lined or dragged up in addition to the 6 rapids on this section of the river that have portages around them.
Campsites are few and far betweeen.

Good Luck.

Ben Gervais and perhaps others have done the section below Whiteclay through to Pikitigushi Lake and could comment on that part of your trip.

fishnfreak
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08/01/2009 12:04PM
this totally has my attention. How accesible is this area and how is it regulated. In other words, what kinda Canadian Hell do I have to go thru to get to go in there.
CIIcanoe
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08/01/2009 12:43PM
I wrote a little about the information you asked about in my trip report last year.

CIIcanoe Canoes Wabakimi

I think most people start in Armstrong. Armstrong is about 150 miles north of Thunder Bay. There are very few visitors so there isn’t a quota, so just show up and pay your camping fees. I believe its $10/night for crown land and $14/ night for the park.

The park is only accessible by canoe, train or aircraft. There isn’t any place to drive a vehicle to any landing to get to the park. The park is surrounded by crown land. Last year we took the train to start out trip then flew out 15 days later. This year we will fly to our start destination and at the end we will catch a vehicle shuttle back to Armstrong.

This is an area where one has to do some pre-planning. It’s really not a place for the novice wilderness tripper. There are no maps with portage information. The portages are much tougher than you will find in the BWCA. I should take that back the Wabakimi Project is documenting the portages and are slowly putting out some maps.

Wabakimi Project

If you read my trip report I think it will give you a feel for the area.

If you can enter Canada then there’s no hell, except maybe on some portions of your trip due to the conditions in the bush depending on where you go.

Chuck

CIIcanoe.com
fishnfreak
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08/01/2009 01:04PM
this is not all wabakimi though. Alot of that area is crownland. Looks like logistics are the hardest part to me. I am definitely interested in a new place to paddle, looking for somewhere that has very little known info about it. This looks like the ticket.
jdrocks
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08/02/2009 07:19PM
the route goes through the Caribou Forest (crown land), Wabakimi P.P., Albany River P.P., and the Ogoki Forest (crown land).

the Wabakimi Project will eventually cover the area from 599 on the west to Lake Nipigon on the east, Albany River on the north to the Brightsand on the south. i took a look at the approximate area one time and i think it was about 6 million acres.

chuck and i are doing some groundwork for the crews that will work some of the same area in 2010.

the logistics are the least of the problems you can encounter traveling these routes.
CIIcanoe
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08/06/2009 11:30AM
Here is a link to some comments on solotripping.com about this trip. Also, Rick posted a photo of his canoe on the Petawa Creek while he walked ahead cutting dead falls. It took Rick who travelled ths creek in 2007 17 hours.

Dave and I are planning to push through this area in one day.

Chuck

CIIcanoe.com
CIIcanoe
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12/27/2009 07:32PM
I'm almost done with my trip report. I will post it on another blog.

21 Day Canoe Trip to the "Little North"

Chuck

CIIcanoe
jdrocks
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12/27/2009 08:08PM
that photo in the header must contain a clue...hard to believe we were out in some of that with a fully loaded tripping canoe.

i also like that quote from back on 8/6/09 regarding Petawa Creek-

"Dave and I are planning to push through this area in one day."

CIIcanoe
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12/27/2009 08:49PM
We almost made it in one day, but since we didn't quite make it we had less than choice accommodations for the evening. It took 14 hours to track up this 10 kilometer section.

The photo was the next morning. It was dark when we got the tents up the night before. We were standing around the food pack in our completely wet clothes eating gorp for dinner.



Chuck

CIIcanoe.com
CIIcanoe
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01/02/2010 11:41PM
My trip report is finished and posted! I also put the link under trip reports, also.

21 Day Canoe Trip to the "Little North"

Chuck

CIIcanoe.com
kanoes
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01/02/2010 11:55PM
rlhedlund
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01/03/2010 06:18AM
Thanks for posting!
jdrocks
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01/03/2010 06:21AM
i think what chuck actually said was-

"Dave, you better learn to paddle or we're going to die in here."

i admit to having difficulty controlling the bow of that boat in fast water. we were loaded with about 750# and that Q18.5 is not a whitewater boat. we nearly died a couple times...but the good news is i eventually got better.

anyone who paddles with chuck will come out the other end a better paddler.
CIIcanoe
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01/03/2010 07:33AM
I think "nearly died" might be too strong of word, but those two times definitely got our attention. This trip was loaded with excitement, due to the high water. Lots and lots of fast, moving water. A lot of water on many of the portages, also.

Thank you for the compliment!

Chuck

CIIcanoe.com
BrownTrout01
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01/03/2010 10:11PM
Man alive, I'm only half way through. Long days, large volume river in high water... good stuff. Great pictures and description.
quetico1
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01/04/2010 09:20AM
Hi everybody. Just a word of warning. In general, the area you are discussing is nothing like BWCA or Quetico. It is boreal forest - this means primarily black spruce (no nice campsites under the pine trees). The topography is extremely rough with large areas of swamp and blow downs that are impossible to get through. The paddling can be dangerous with many rapids. For paddlers inexperienced in whitewater, it would be foolish indeed to attempt many of these routes. Campsites are few and far between. Bush crashing is the rule and not the exception. Portages are often unmarked or have not been used for decades (with the exception of the amazing team from The Wabakimi Project). Extreme weather events are very common - much more so than in BWCA. Finally, the risk factor goes way up because you are far from any type of help.
TomT
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01/04/2010 10:25AM
I'm only on day 8 but the trip is pretty incredible. Great pics too. Some of the campsite shots and portages are amazing. This ain't our friendly BWCA for sure!

I love Chuck's writing because of the detail. Looking forward to reading the rest. One thing I will say though - you guys are fortunate to get out of there with no serious injuries. But I'm sure you know that. One helluva adventure, boys. Good work.
brerud
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01/04/2010 10:43AM
That was very cool to read.
jdrocks
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01/04/2010 10:56AM
We sent our maps and notes to the wabakimi project. Chuck and I are contributors to that effort. They are using our map sets to update their own.

Some of the portage work we did gets them started for the 2010 season.
CIIcanoe
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01/04/2010 08:17PM
dickb, rlhedlund, BrownTrout01, TomT and brerud: I’m glad you enjoyed the trip report.

quetico1: You are very correct about the conditions in the boreal forest. I think for the average BWCA or Quetico traveler that they really can’t comprehend the effort to complete such a trip. There were some people who doubted that Dave and I would accomplish this trip. Thanks to all who have taken the time to read it and / or look at the photos.

Chuck

kanoes
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01/04/2010 08:29PM
lewis and clark? i think not.
jdrocks
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01/04/2010 08:56PM
kanoes, go take a crap in some other thread. you know nuthin', why pretend.
kanoes
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01/04/2010 08:59PM
mature response.
jdrocks
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01/04/2010 09:05PM
it's going to be a predictable response when you address subjects you know nothing about. face it, you're one tiresome dude.

i know you consider this forum your personal domain, just go play in some other part of it.
kanoes
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01/04/2010 09:11PM
face the truth.

half the people on this board could do the very same trip...given the time off and money you seem to have.

you act like you were the first ones there. (thus the lewis and clark reference)

"BWCA or Quetico traveler that they really can’t comprehend the effort to complete such a trip."....give me a break.

signed...tiresome dude
jdrocks
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01/04/2010 09:29PM
kanoes-tiresome, repetitious...and misinformed. from kanoes earlier post on the same subject.

09/10/2009 10:43PM

sorry JD. i tend to forget YOURE GOD. fyi? no matter where you go...youre not the first. id maybe accept that fact and not be so holier than thou.

ANYONE (including me...heaven forbid)...with time and money could do the same trips you do. thats the ONLY difference.

id stop thinking youre "that" special...if i was you.

temporary "oath" suspension. worth it and justified.

btw? have you ever true soloed before?

i doubt it.

kanoes, you don't know anything about our trip cost, the boreal country, the route, or the conditions. the same people who didn't think we could get through had already been on all or parts of our route. our route had been traveled 5000 years before lewis and clark were born.

you or anyone else that wants to go in there, go ahead. if you read the report, not many do.

CIIcanoe
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01/04/2010 09:33PM
kanoes,

You have gotten better with your comments in the last year or so, but many of the newer members probably really don’t know the real you. Where you gave stupid comments that had nothing to do with canoeinng. In fact, maybe the first 6000 post were just snide remarks such as the ones today.

Your comment was simply uncalled for! I don’t understand why you feel so insecure and threatened.

I think you need to "Take the Oath of Dignity and Respect" , again.

I don’t understand why Adam and the other moderators have put up with this type of behavior for so long. In fact, I ask Adam, to contact me about what he plans to do about your behavior, if any.

The only time I commented to you was a couple years ago when you responded to one of my post saying I must drive a volvo. My reply was, No, and what did that have to do with canoeing.

I know I get tired of seeing your sarcastic comments.

There’s more to write, but it’s not worth it.

Chuck

kanoes
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01/04/2010 09:42PM
perhaps if you would add something to bwca.com besides a random trip report and shameless links to your own website i would respect you more. theres no more to write.
Itchy Menace
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01/04/2010 10:00PM
I'm up to day 15. Still amazing. I'm exhausted just reading it. The weather, the portages, the rapids, phew not sure I'd be one to duplicate the trip. Very glad you shared such a detailed report.
jdrocks
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01/04/2010 10:09PM
we had been in a lot of fast water and had already lost the boat twice by the time we got to the albany river. we were moving almost 7 mph on the albany without a paddle in the water and it was a whole different deal. the misehkow was small and fast, but the albany was big and fast in high water. every creek and river fed the albany from west of 599 and the volume of water moving in the river was staggering. the wabakimi project had pulled their crew off the river because of dangerous conditions.

when you read chuck's report, we portage around one of the falls on the albany, but then have to cross a long eddy with big standing waves that extended a long ways down the river. we exit the standing waves and are in more fast water around a point on river left. we could not see what the water was doing past the point.

we were in 1km of big short cycle standing waves, and chuck's photo down the river from where we started doesn't do it justice. chuck kept the boat straightened up while i alternated a slow paddle and brace. we were trying to ride it out, but if we had lost the boat there, it might have been the ball game. we were way out in the river. i was soaking wet, and it wasn't raining. i'd already seen a standing wave fill the boat in one heart beat.
TomT
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01/05/2010 05:39AM
If you could do it over would you use a full boat skirt or cover? You could take on more water I would think.

Regarding Kanoes, someone from the BWJ thread said that "if you look for the negative you will find it". I don't agree with your comments at all. These guys aren't bragging about this trip, they're just pointing out the facts and the difference to the BWCA.

And don't kid yourself that anyone with the time and resources could do this trip. Personally, I wouldn't TOUCH those rivers. You gotta give them props for just surviving a trip like this. Call 'em crazy, but not Lewis and Clark poseurs. :)
jdrocks
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01/05/2010 07:16AM
tomt, that's a good question on the skirt. a skirt might have helped, but our biggest problem was that we could not trim the boat past neutral with me in the bow seat. i have at least 125# on chuck and there was nothing we could do to get that bow up enough to help us out.

we weigh our packs at the start of the trip, so it wasn't a case of moving the packs around. chuck did get creative and stowed a pack at his knees and we were going through our food at a good clip, so the trim started getting better. we pretty much stayed out of trouble from that point on.

i still think the q18.5 is a good boat for these trips. it only has an inch of rocker, but can carry the load, and is a darn safe boat overall.
not a whitewater boat, but mine has been in plenty of it. put it this way, it's been places that a loaded kevlar boat was not designed to go. it has the scars to prove it, but no holes. souris builds a tough boat.
Basspro69
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01/05/2010 07:50AM
Im jealous that you get to go in for three weeks, I dont know if i could stay in that long unless my family was with me, I would miss them too much.
jdrocks
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01/05/2010 07:56AM
one of the people that provided some route info had been on the eastern half of our route with his wife, another couple, and six young children. they were in there about 20 years ago and he didn't say they had any particular problems going through even with the kids in tow.

read chucks report for his comments on tracking up petawa creek and the condition and length of those portages on that section of our route as we turned south.

either the conditions were different, or those families were a lot tougher than us.

my point is that family groups do go in there. great canoe country.
CIIcanoe
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01/05/2010 10:42AM
Here is what "Uncle Phil" Cotton, with The Wabakimi Project, wrote and posted on the myccr site about our trip:

"Chuck: You and your crew are to be congratulated. . .an excellent report and fantastic photos. Given the extreme water levels and the condition of the portages you encountered, I'm amazed that you managed to cover the entire distance in 21 days. You guys can certainly claim to be les hommes du nord.

The Wabakimi Project needs more contributors like you and Ed if we're ever going to complete our goal of mapping this huge wilderness area. Thanks so much for this magnificent effort."

Chuck

CIIcanoe.com
Stormy
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01/05/2010 03:03PM
I just want to say, incredible trip, photos and report! Sure wish you had time and inclination to fish though.
BrownTrout01
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01/05/2010 04:08PM
Really enjoyed reading your trip report, thanks for posting.

I always wondered about using a kevlar canoe in a similar enviroment. If the water levels were between low to normal, do you think you would have used the same boat or tried to do the same route?
jdrocks
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01/05/2010 05:21PM
the high fast water put a damper on the fishing. no way you could fish from the canoe most of the time, and our camps were many times right at fast water so even fishing from shore was a problem. when you see chucks photos of that moving water, you can imagine the futility of tossing a line in there. the one time i did fish, i caught a pike on the second cast. i can't remember what i had planned for dinner, but we ended up with fish chowder.

i'll have to get 'em next time.
jdrocks
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01/06/2010 01:32PM
browntrout-

i think a normal water level would sure have helped, while real low water like you find in there sometimes towards the end of the season (like 2006) would have hurt us with different kinds of problems. it's super bony in there in low water and you might find yourself carrying hundreds of meters along a rocky river bed just to get to where the portage actually starts. jumping across those rocks carrying the canoe or packs is a good place to break some bones.

i got an unpublished trip report from some guys that were on part of our route in 2007. they purchased a new souris q17 for the trip and ran sections of river in their kevlar boat that i judged to bony to run in both 2007 and 2008 in my kevlar boat. besides the boat itself, it's how heavy you're loaded and how you see the river. there was a broken in half grumman at the bottom of those rapids in 2007. we heard that a canoe camp lost a couple boats there in august, 2009, but our route didn't go through that area on this trip.

fast forward to 2009, chuck and i ran a section of river in high water where the two guys in the q17 had to bushwack a 500m portage around that rapids in 07. it took them almost half a day to get through.

whatever boat you have, count on it getting beat up. there's just no way around it.

a plastic boat works just fine, but man, the weight will about kill you on the portages, especially if you're an old guy. those youngsters can carry whatever they happen to have. some of the canoe camps are still using wood/canvas chestnuts on their long range trips across the little north.
01/06/2010 04:08PM
Thanks for posting. I love hearing about other areas. Sounds like an exciting trip.

T
Kiporby
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01/06/2010 05:33PM
Impressive stuff boys! Obviously you both have youthful minds and a sense of adventure. Not bad for a couple of "older" gents mind you, but with your years comes retirement and the opportunities to undertake such adventures. Hope I'm able to do such things when I get a "bit" older. Until then my youthful bones will be content with week long adventures.
jdrocks
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01/06/2010 05:49PM
chuck and i both work. chuck has to jump through a bunch of hoops to schedule his time off, while i'm still doing design/build jobs and juggling my schedule around deadlines. we work our asses off just like everyone else. work hard, play hard. as long as the phone keeps ringing, i just don't see myself retired. on the other hand...i have some places i'd like to see.
Kiporby
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01/06/2010 07:41PM
Oops. Bad assumption JD. Guess I shouldn't put you and Chuck in the retirement home just yet! Ha. When I'm your age and if still at the same job the 5 weeks of vacation will come in handy.
jdrocks
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01/08/2010 08:55AM
chuck and i have talked several times about photos from this trip where the camera was pointed directly down the portage trail when the photo was taken, yet you really can't see that anyone has ever set foot there. here's another one.

this portage is mentioned in trip reports, old publications, MNR documents, geologist maps, and even shows on beta copies of Wabakimi Project maps. Native people probably used it for untold years. you have to use this portage on this route, and its part of a portage system that extends about 1400m here. there's no alternate way around it. besides us, no one had stepped out in there for quite some time. the portage trail is directly in front of the canoe.
RobKesselring1
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01/08/2010 09:36AM
Awesome trip and an entertaining and informative report. But canoeists that read the report and have decided Wabakimi and the Little North might be too extreme might want to reconsider. 2009 was a peculiar year - a cold and very wet spring and summer. High water adds a lot of drama to any river trip complicating river running, tracking, lining and portaging. And although open campsites are not as abundant in the full boreal forest as in the fringe of the boreal forest (BWCA and Quetico) they are still common, unfortunately in 2009 some of them were underwater! Even in a normal year JD and Chuck's route would be ambitious and there are gentler routes through that country if an arduous trip is not one of your goals.

Happy Trails

Rob

jdrocks
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01/08/2010 01:31PM
rob, i can generally agree with you. 2009 was about the 3rd year of unusual weather, although 07 and 08 straightened out towards the end of the season. chuck and i both saw what the kopka river was doing when we crossed the bridge on 527, so we pretty much knew what we were getting into.

there are downright easy and well traveled routes in Wabakimi. in 08, we saw an outfitter dump 20 paddlers on the same route all at once, but that's not what we're after, so we stay off those particular routes. we wondered how all those people were going to enjoy their "wilderness" experience. there were more canoes in there decades ago, than there are now. i've only seen two canoes in the last four trips, and we saw those only when we dropped the packs and portaged into a lake off our route just to look around.

rob, i'd like to get your take on this, but i continue to think that one of the challenges faced by experienced paddlers coming out of the bw/quetico is the transition from interlake travel to drop and pool travel. depending on where you are and the water level, you could spend most of the day in fast water on those river systems. you might need to go through fast water just to get to a portage landing. as the water rises, what was an unremarkable swift is now class water. there may be a convenient portage, or not. it takes some getting used to.

we planned to use some beach campsites on miminiska and petawanga, but as you mention, they were 3' under. we had only spotty campsite information, and could not even find some we were specifically told were there...and we really needed to find them.

chuck's report or my comments are not meant to discourage people from going in there. it's wonderful canoe country. the maps available from the Wabakimi Project make trip/route planning through that specific area easier than it's ever been. people should go if they get the opportunity, but plan and prepare.
Traveler
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01/08/2010 05:29PM
Gentlemen

I just finished reading your report and enjoying the many photos. I congratulate you on a safe trip and thank you for the effort to put together the fine report. Many years ago I took a 21 day trip with one buddy in northern Manitoba. While our trip was less strenuous and less dangerous than yours, your trip report did bring back many good memories. Thank you.

Traveler
dogmusher
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01/08/2010 06:56PM
Wow, nice trip!!! This is the stuff I love reading about. Any plans for next year?
Mongo65
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01/08/2010 10:10PM
I'm only halfway through and can't wait to read the other half. Kudos to the two of you and the trip report.
jdrocks
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01/13/2010 06:49PM
chuck and i both started the trip with new OTB boots. chuck had the Odhin and i had the Abyss. both of us had problems with the boots, but we were in the water day after day. tough on footwear. i don't think i would spring for another pair at $130, but...

direct from the OTB online store @ $70 plus modest shipping. green only. heck, i can live with that, so i ordered another pair. Odhin this time around.

the Ohdin is not just a slightly taller version of the Abyss, it's a different boot right down to the shoe laces. it shares features with the Abyss and the manufacturing appears the same. we'll see. can't beat the price if you're looking for this style of wetfooter.

you can swim with these boots on. we proved that.
tremolo
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01/13/2010 07:34PM
Tell me once again what you plan to do with your one wild and precious life."

Love the Mary Oliver quote-- one of my favorite poets. A line to live by.
jdrocks
distinguished member(694)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/13/2010 07:57PM
i quoted that line to a young man i ran into at a post office in alaska this past spring...stopped him in his tracks. he sat down and told me what it meant to him in a pretty damn interesting 30 minute conversation. he was about to start a bicycle ride from alaska to north carolina. solid handshake as he walked out the door.

you're right, it's a line to live by. you get no second chance as the years fly by. don't miss out. la vida loca, la vida buena, sometimes it's all the same.

tremolo, you're the first around here to identify that quote. good call. my version is not true to every word, but it was the way i remembered it at the time.

RobKesselring1
member (18)member
 
01/14/2010 04:42PM
JD and chuck

I am a confirmed wetshoer and my current NRS wetboots are showing their wear

Tell me the difference between the OTB Abyss and OTB Ohdin

I kneel 80% of the time so a big stiff boot doesn't work for me

I also had a bad bout with plantar fac. a couple years back so i need a boot that fits wide and has a solid foot bed.

Will either of these OTB's work for me?

enjoying all the chatter about your epic trip

hope to meet on a river some day

-Rob

jdrocks
distinguished member(694)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/14/2010 05:21PM
rob, chuck and i have destroyed several pairs of NRS Storms. the Storm was the best portage boot made, but the boot had a short life span. it would predictably fall apart. the new Storm design is reported to be a departure from the old design and also non draining.

the Abyss and Odhin are different boots and you can see this in the high resolution photos on the OTB page. like i said, the Odhin is not just a taller version of the Abyss.

www.otbboots.com

both models share the perforated sole but not too much else, although the manufacturing is very similar.

i wouldn't say these boots are stiff, but they're not as flexible as the Storms. the footbed feels more substantial than the Storms, but the tread is not as aggressive, and the sole material not as grippy.

these boots don't have the neoprene like the Storms, so in cold water you will feel it unless you add something.

i ordered a new pair of the Odhins, higher for a little more ankle protection when lining/tracking those rivers. the OTB boots are not perfect, but a pretty good wetfooter for $70.

i ordered these one full size larger than i normally wear, they seem to run small.



IBFLY
distinguished member(1350)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/11/2010 03:46PM
quote jdrocks: "rob, chuck and i have destroyed several pairs of NRS Storms. the Storm was the best portage boot made, but the boot had a short life span. it would predictably fall apart. the new Storm design is reported to be a departure from the old design and also non draining.

the Abyss and Odhin are different boots and you can see this in the high resolution photos on the OTB page. like i said, the Odhin is not just a taller version of the Abyss.

www.otbboots.com

both models share the perforated sole but not too much else, although the manufacturing is very similar.

i wouldn't say these boots are stiff, but they're not as flexible as the Storms. the footbed feels more substantial than the Storms, but the tread is not as aggressive, and the sole material not as grippy.

these boots don't have the neoprene like the Storms, so in cold water you will feel it unless you add something.
i ordered a new pair of the Odhins, higher for a little more ankle protection when lining/tracking those rivers. the OTB boots are not perfect, but a pretty good wetfooter for $70.
i ordered these one full size larger than i normally wear, they seem to run small.

"


Great info JD - thanks for posting this and hooking me up to this thread.
I'm gonna take a look at the storms and their much less expensive NRS workboot - plus the OTB Odin and SAR's - so many choices.

Moreover - your trip looks incredible. I'm imnpressed. I haven't been able to get out for more than 12 days in the past few years - I think I've gotta try for a 3 week fest in Fall of 2011. It might have to be a solo unless I can convince my brother to take that much time off.
IBFLY
distinguished member(1350)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/11/2010 04:03PM
Just ordered a pair of SARs (OTB) at $49.95, I'll still look at the NRS storms and others, but figured I'll try the SARs and report back to folks in late May/early June after my first couple of trips this year.

Thanka again.
jdrocks
distinguished member(694)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/11/2010 04:13PM
now the odhins are only $60. green only.


direct from the manufacturer-otbboots.com


i sure would think they will clean out their inventory at these prices.
 
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