On a couple of trips with the Boy Scouts back when dinosaurs walked the earth, I was told that you could drink unfiltered water as long as you took it from the middle of the lake and were not anywhere near a river mouth. That is what we did, and nobody got sick.

Since then, I've learned that several things my Scout Leader told me were not true, so I wonder about this intelligence.

What's the story?

The odds are with you as far as drinking unfiltered water, but the consequences of catching a parasite, bacteria or a virus could be extreme.

In general, filters will take care of parasites and bacteria. Bleach will kill viruses.

It depends on the risks you are willing to take. Many on this board will drink unfiltered water taken 100 feet (or is it yards???) from any shore, cap bottle, submerge it, open cap, fill, recap and then bring to surface. This also should not be in a beaver pond or near beavers.

We filtered all our water. I am just not willing to take the chance. Especially if you are tripping in a hotter time of year and/or putting out a lot of sweat- dehydration from diarrhea isn't that far away.

I also used to drink from the lake unfiltered. Then one day when I was swimming on Sag I found a five inch tape worm. I filter now.

Haven't ever filtered, always got water from deep water like your Boy Scout Leader said.......never been sick.
The filter manufacturers are making a bundle off this one.
The only areas to worry about are lakes with septic tanks or high people concentrations.....giardia is quite rare and if you follow the old Scout suggestions you should be OK.....

The other theory is that us old farts have built up a natural immunity to all the bugs and it's only you city slickers that have to filter.

Oh! Ya! don't drink the 5 inch tape worms!!

Been tripping for 20+ years and never filtered until 3 years ago. I was on a 3 mile bushwhack on the east side of Quetico and out of water and my partner had a filter when we came to Scum Lake. It turned that green water into good tasting water. I now carry a filter but rarely use it. So if you are going to be only on large lakes and small stretches of flowing water leave the filter home. If your going to be on long river trips or a string of small lakes you may want one. On one of my trips without a filter the trees dropped there pollen and even large lakes had green in the water. It did not taste the best but no one got sick.
Magic

Some members of my group just dip their cup, but its in the middle of clean lakes, like Ima or Thomas. I for one, dont like the taste of lakewater....basecamp filter for me.

....."Then one day when I was swimming on Sag I found a five inch tape worm. I filter now."

It was very thoughtfull of you to not share where you found it.
Thank you. :) :) :)

I've never filtered, but I've never dipped either. I either boil or use the Iodine tablets. I don't mind the taste, to be honest, I don't really like the taste of water, so the Iodine cuts that out.

Tapeworm might not be too bad if you are trying to loose some pounds:)

For years I've filtered my water, but the past few years I drink about 90% of my water straight from the lake. I never drink unfiltered water close to shore however. I always have a filter with just in case I need drinking water and I'm in camp. I don't know if I'd be a dipper if I tripped in July or August either.

Approximately 35 trips and dipped 80% of time. Filtered maybe 20% of time. If we're lazy and don't want to fill the jug out in the middle of the lake, we filter from shore. If you're not careful filtering, you can contaminate your water anyway. Also wet filters and tubing that never get a chance to dry out can breed bacteria. None of my trip partners or I have ever been sick.

I have taken my kids up for 13 out of 20 years and we drank right out of the lakes. My only experience with Giradia was when I had to drink water from the shoreline of Lake Agnes. I think the deeper the lake the less of a chance of getting sick. I have posted this before and got ripped by my fellow paddlers. Maybe we were all just lucky or the chances really are small of getting sick if you take water from the deep part of the lake.

I always used to drink water right from the small trout streams in northern Michigan. At the cabin we used to keep a tin cup hanging on a nail down on the Green River. After beavers moved back into the area I quit doing that. Now I always filter. The odds are I won't get sick on straight lake water, but it's kinda like my seat belt. It's only saved my life once.

I went with a group several years ago. everyone diped a 100 yards or so off shore. far as i know, no one got sick. the story i read, is if getting water from shore, the wave action keeps the creepy crawlies (giardia, crypto, etc) mixed up and suspended. going off shore they settle to the bottom. one thing to note, chemical treatment does nothing for the tapeworm eggs from the moose. i'd probably guess steripens don't either. Boiling or purification only work.
i've always wondered about the effects of stomach acid reducing meds and the incidence of catching a bug. seems somewhere I was told the acid is there as much to sterilize what you consume as for digestion. this year i'll probably dip again, but if getting water near shore or on a small mudhole, use a purifier. note the difference between filters and purifiers so you're comfortable with the different levels and know what you're buying.

My point was if it is five inches long I could have drank it when it was 1/8 inch long.

As far as filtering goes I would guess that the groups I go with normally filter about 80 - 90% of the time and we have never had a problem with getting sick for the little bit of 'dippin' we do. I have also heard that most of the time when people get sick backcountry camping it has little to do with water and more to do with not washing your hands after doing your business up at the can. think about that the next time your buddy jams his hand in the gorp. Purell. Purell. Purell. Not sure of the science behind any of this stuff, just passing on what I have heard.

I have traditionally been filtering water. In the last couple years I have been drinking straight from the lake. I draw my water from the middle of deep lakes only. I guess I decide from lake to lake which ones to dip, and which to filter. I also wouldn't dip during the warmer months of the summer, but then again I rarely trip then anyway.

I am too chicken to dip unless I really need some water. I have seen what giardia does to a ride home from the BW. I never filter though - only iodine tablets with a neutralizer tablet after.

I drank the water , untreated, and never got sick. Majority of our group was drinking untreated after 5 of our 7 days.

Ya! You should actually look in the cup before you drink....might be foreign material in there, ya know.

I drank straight from lakes and rivers which I probably shouldnt have drank from in retrospect. (small, shallow bodies of water)
Nothing came out of it, but knowing what I know now, I'd probably stick w/ big deep lakes.

I'm with OLDGENTLEMAN: it's kind of a safety belt. Odds are good that you will be fine, but why chance it when filters are relatively small? I've drank out of BWCA lakes in the past few years with no ill effects, but most of the time I filter. For coffee, oatmeal, etc. filtering isn't needed if you let the water boil a minute or two.
I do not use iodine because I hate the aftertaste.

I got Giardia once when I was in North Carolina and it was a whole lot of not fun. I'm probably immune to it now but I've taken way too many microbiology classes to regularly drink unfiltered water. Parasites scare me.

I'm comfortable drinking straight from large, deep, clear lakes. Otherwise I filter.

I drink from the lake all the time. Around camp we filter or boil for cooking. Then boil a big pot on the evening fire then set aside to cool and fill the nalgenes in the AM.
I am more concerned with everyone sharing the GORP bag with unwashed hands(do I need to explain further?). Read and article that this is where most stomach issues are born on wilderness trips rather than bad water. Makes alot of since to me. Now we each get our own GORP bags for the trip.
CB

I got the big G from getting a cup of water off shore to brush my teeth with. We were diligent otherwise, but I do remember thinking "we didn't treat this" while brushing with that one cup. I will drink straight from the middle of the lakes from now on, but never from close to shore. My ode to the big G:

Here I sit broken hearted
I had a surprise in my pants after I farted
I thought I could sneak one and relieve the pressure
It only made it worst when I discovered my treasure
I eat like a sparrow and crap like a goose
I'll be loony soon if this germ I don't lose
Never again will I dip my cup
Into the fetid, untreated water that laid me up
I strongly advise my pals that visit this site
Avoid the giardia bug with all of your might

I think the doc gave me a prescription for 4 football sized pills that you took all at once. Ingest pills, kill bug, flush-done deal-but it took me 3 weeks to figure out what the deal was. I'll spare anymore details.

40 plus trips without filtering. No giardia, or any other illnesses. Could just be lucky.

Spottedowl, good point about the water for brushing your teeth. Great poem by the way, still laughing.

Thanks all for the visuals... Filter or Steripen here. No illnesses.

Just another wonderful choice we are allowed to make. I won't add to the visuals but filter or Aquastar now.
Boppa

Every trip I take to the BW I think about this and I always resort to my trusty teapot. As soon as I reach my camp I boil a 1/2 gallon of water and refill all my water bottles. If I don't have time I dip.

I haven't had giardia personally, but several people who tripped with me got it...one from just swimming in the Basswood River. We were treating the water by that time, but in the '70's I carried a Sierra cup on my belt or drank off the edge of my paddle. It is so easy to purify with pills, or boil, or filter, that I don't ever not do so.

Bring hand sanitizer. That is where your greatest risk for Giardia comes from.

We drink from water away from shore, 100%. We plan ahead for area where we won't have access to deep lakes, etc.

Also, you probably won't get sick for 7-10 days from Giardia, so at least you won't ruin your trip...

I always filter - just not worth the risk to me.

I always filter - just not worth the risk to me.

I always filter - just not worth the risk to me.

I didn’t think it was important until my son got giardia and it was here at home in North Iowa. He was one hurting unit.

As far as we know he got it at a friend’s farm drinking from the outside hydrant. He lost a lot of weight, and was in a lot of pain. After it was finally decided on the diagnosis, it was still several weeks before he felt better.

It’s not something that is going to hit you right away. Not worth the chance in my book.

For 41 years I have been drinking the water straight as have all the guys with me. I believe that people sometimes get sick and I believe that it is miserable. I am not sure that I believe that filters really eliminate all risk and from my perspective the risk is very minimal anyway.

Maybe my college microbiology class broke me... but I'm not a fan of parasites. I will filter and the little buggers can set up in you guys who are willing to risk their fun and games in your bowels!!!

Hi Ripple, welcome.

I got a mild case of cryptosporidium when I was in Milwaukee about 15 years ago. That was no picnic, and I've heard giardia is a lot worse. I think of filtering as just part of the personal safety kit.

I like to think of what I'd collectively call "safe water practices" as insurance. I also like the seatbelt analogy and it really fits well here. For example, the risk reduction of a seat belt when you're the only person driving down a residential street at 25 mph in the middle of the night during dry conditions is less than say when driving in an ice storm on a major highway during rush hour. Yet most people who routinely wear seatbelts would do so under both conditions.

I think that people who boil/filter/treat water before drinking are much the same way. Personally, I know that some areas are higher risk than others in terms of "flora" that could be harmful, but I routinely filter. Giardiasis probably wouldn't set in during your trip if you are going for less than a week, but it's not fun regardless of where you are when you become symptomatic. From a purely financial point of view, it costs less to have a filter that would probably last you years than it does to take a single trip to the doctor to evaluate and treat your infection.

that's a lot of typing for just $0.02, but there ya go.

I've got over a year trail experience in the past decade drinking unfiltered water--never had an issue. Only 1 person in any of my groups ever got giardia. That being said--I've only used iodine on 3 separate occasions--2x on the Ottawa river and once while camping in a swamp in the middle of nowhere. Be weary of beavers and stagnant water...otherwise use your best judgment. That being said I did just take microbiology and probably will filter in the BWCA--water seems to have more particulate matter than Canada

My last trip was the first time I used a filter. I have been operating under the assumption that Windsor will kill the bad stuff. I am still contemplating buying a filter for this year's trips.

for those who are filter/boil/chemical/magic pill people, has anyone ever drank from a well? and im not talking a 6 inch pipe sunk down 250 feet, im talking a 20 foot deep 3 foot wide well.

Alright I'll say it. For my solo this fall I will be filterless. I went through the 80's and 90's without a filter and in an effort to go lighter and with less hassle I will be drinking from the lake.

Just gotta be smart about where you dip from is all.

Thank you for the welcome- I just figured out how to find my posts to be able to respond!

Tom T-why not bring the iodine tablets? 2 tiny bottles-works great.

Never filter, and no one in my groups over 35 years have ever gotten sick in any way, shape or form.

quote Savage Voyageur: "I also used to drink from the lake unfiltered. Then one day when I was swimming on Sag I found a five inch tape worm. I filter now."

I assume that was a horsehair - looked like mono?

Water filters are so compact and easy to use these days, there's really no excuse to not filter.

Chances are non-filtered water taken from the middle of a clean lake will not make you sick, but have you ever had food poisoning before? The bug you could catch from bad water gives you roughly the same result. It's horrible! Why take that chance?

If you're dead set against a filter, at least take the time to boil the water and let it cool before putting it in your canteen or camelback or whatever.

There's lots of critters in them woods, and they all make poopies in the lake or close to it, so....

Savage Voyageur: "I also used to drink from the lake unfiltered. Then one day when I was swimming on Sag I found a five inch tape worm. I filter now."

Lol That wasn't a tapeworm. It was a leach. They do swim near the surface sometimes. They can be as long as 8 to 10 inches when they are swimming like that.

I have seen people sick from filtered water. We always purify with a lifestraw mission. Not all filters remove giardia, cryptosporidium and virus. Also do not use a filter that has been frozen since the membrane will expand and break from the ice.

chiefzago: "

Savage Voyageur: "I also used to drink from the lake unfiltered. Then one day when I was swimming on Sag I found a five inch tape worm. I filter now."

Lol That wasn't a tapeworm. It was a leach. They do swim near the surface sometimes. They can be as long as 8 to 10 inches when they are swimming like that. "

Nah dood. Ive seen long long parasites like that. Leeches suck blood. Biologists chime in.

chiefzago: "

Savage Voyageur: "I also used to drink from the lake unfiltered. Then one day when I was swimming on Sag I found a five inch tape worm. I filter now."

Lol That wasn't a tapeworm. It was a leach. They do swim near the surface sometimes. They can be as long as 8 to 10 inches when they are swimming like that. "

Tape worms are white. Not hard to tell the difference. However, a tape can't live outside a body-host very long. But the eggs and larvae can.

I carry a DIY gravity filter and a sawyer squeeze filter but I'm not afraid to take my tin cup and scoop up a drink out of the middle of the lake. I take an empty milk jug and gravity filter into it for camp.

Don't understand the "I've tripped for 30+ years, dipped, and never got sick" analogy. There's no science to that statement. Its the same as others have said about seatbelts or bike helmets. . . i.e.. . . "I never wore a seatbelt as a kid and don't wear one now".

Water filtration is just too easy today. Our entire team uses Lifestraw water bottles when underway. . . .no more time then "dipping" a no filtered bottle. Honestly don't understand why people choose not to filter. And really don't understand a trip leader recommending his group not filter.

I pulled parts of a tape worm out of my cats butt once. Different story for later.

When you are in camp and the sun is low on a lazy summer evening, you might catch a beaver swimming across that beautiful clear, deep lake and admire his beauty.

And then remember that he likes to poop while he is swimming out in the lake and there might be a decent amount of giardia coming out of him.

And if you shall be so lucky the next day after you’ve slept well and he’s been out all night dashing to and fro in front of of your camp, that you will paddle out and scoop up some fresh, clear, cold water with little microscopic bits of beaver poop.

Take care now.
Tom

tumblehome: "I pulled parts of a tape worm out of my cats butt once. Different story for later.


When you are in camp and the sun is low on a lazy summer evening, you might catch a beaver swimming across that beautiful clear, deep lake and admire his beauty.


And then remember that he likes to poop while he is swimming out in the lake and there might be a decent amount of giardia coming out of him.


And if you shall be so lucky the next day after you’ve slept well and he’s been out all night dashing to and fro in front of of your camp, that you will paddle out and scoop up some fresh, clear, cold water with little microscopic bits of beaver poop.


Take care now.
Tom"

Love it!

Given the ready availability, cheap price, and ease of use of various kinds of water filters on the market today, it's irresponsible to drink untreated water IMHO. Sure, you might not get sick, but why take any chance at all if you don't have to? It's just not smart.

No thanks, not even to brush my teeth. Agree that there is no good reason to not filter. It is affordable and so easy there is just no reason to take the chance. We bring a Platypus system with a 4 liter clean bag and 2 MSR bags at 6 liters and 10 liters. So when fully loaded we have 20 liters of filtered water available for anything your heart desires. Encourages us to drink lots of liquids, dehydration can be a thing up there.

Drank from the lake my first 25 or so trips because I didn't know any better and there weren't a lot of options that I was aware of. I was lucky, never had an issue.

If you have never been involved in a serious car accident so far, is that a good predictor of the future and a reason to not wear your seat belt? Sorry if I sound preachy, I just hope that those of you who dip and drink don't suffer down the road from the folly of your logic.

I’ve told this before, but I got giardia from dipping a cup next to shore to brush my teeth, it’s one of those immediate uh oh, I think that was not so smart moments, and yeah 10 days or so after…. Oh man, it’s not something you want to do again, I’ll spare the gory details. Went to the doc, I knew what it was, he gave me 4 huge pills I took all at once and it killed it almost immediately. We were treating our water, but I paid the price for that one slip up, never again! I think it was on Beartrap Lake if that means anything.

Last season I probably drank more unfiltered water than filtered for four months & I didn't have any issues. That said, I didn't drink unfiltered from beaver ponds or from near shore, that stuff is always filtered or boiled. I'll be doing the same again this year. It's just more convenient to dunk my nalgene below the surface to refill while traveling than it is to pull off to shore & get out the filter + pump. I'd probably drink less water on travel days if it became inconvenient to hydrate. I did replace my gravity filter system with a pump after crossing a stretch of beaver ponds & running out of H2O. With a gravity filter I'd have had to stop somewhere & set it up + wait for it to finish (while being destroyed by bugs); for a solo traveler a pump is sufficient though I wouldn't want to use a single pump filter for a group.

Personally, I'm more disturbed about drinking tap water than raw BWCA water... It's recycled sewage full of traces of pharmaceutical drugs, e.g. synthetic estrogen from birth control (imho, this has wrecked havoc on men) & the PH is not good for humans.

How is dipping a Naglene bottle in the lake more convenient then something like a Lifestraw bottle filter?


Life Straw water filter

JohnGalt: "Personally, I'm more disturbed about drinking tap water than raw BWCA water... It's recycled sewage full of traces of pharmaceutical drugs, e.g. synthetic estrogen from birth control (imho, this has wrecked havoc on men) & the PH is not good for humans."

The biggest flaw with this line of reasoning is that I can test my tap water at home if I'm concerned about its safety. Can't do that with BWCA water. So I personally am going to assume it's not safe to drink unfiltered. I knew someone who died as a result of the effects of giardia they picked up by drinking unfiltered BWCA water. It's a free country and you're welcome to do what you're comfortable with, but I'm not going to take any chances with my health if it's easy to avoid them - which in the case of filtering water, it is.

PS, I'd love to see some science on the PH of tap water being bad for humans. That's a new one for me.

NEIowapaddler: "

JohnGalt: "Personally, I'm more disturbed about drinking tap water than raw BWCA water... It's recycled sewage full of traces of pharmaceutical drugs, e.g. synthetic estrogen from birth control (imho, this has wrecked havoc on men) & the PH is not good for humans."

The biggest flaw with this line of reasoning is that I can test my tap water at home if I'm concerned about its safety. Can't do that with BWCA water. So I personally am going to assume it's not safe to drink unfiltered. I knew someone who died as a result of the effects of giardia they picked up by drinking unfiltered BWCA water. It's a free country and you're welcome to do what you're comfortable with, but I'm not going to take any chances with my health if it's easy to avoid them - which in the case of filtering water, it is.

PS, I'd love to see some science on the PH of tap water being bad for humans. That's a new one for me. "

Death from giardia is quite an extreme case, it typically results in 'having the runs', which, while not ideal, does not strike much fear into my heart. It is tragic to hear that someone you know had such an extreme outcome, though I think that is an abnormal result.

'Science' has become more about politics & profits over the past few decades, you'll be able to find at the top of the list of articles what has been bought & paid for by special interest groups, imho. I'm guessing anything I might provide will be met with hostility so I will let the issue be. Cheers!

ockycamper: "How is dipping a Naglene bottle in the lake more convenient then something like a Lifestraw bottle filter?

Life Straw water filter "

For those keen on not drinking unfiltered water, this would be a good option to consider. Folks have been drinking water directly from those lakes for a very long time, I consider it part of the experience at this point. Modern society is so intent on rounding off every sharp corner & bubble wrapping helmets - I embrace opportunities to buck this trend, even if it is just drinking water straight from the earth.

The Sawyer Mini Water Filtration System is so simple, so easy to use while you paddle. Fill the sack, attach the filter, and drink. No excuse for dehydration. Yes, if for some reason I didn't have it with me, I'd still drink from the center of the lake. It's what we did for years and years. But the Sawyer is so simple and easy.

Dave

I will add, in my case, the cup of water I filled my cup up to brush my teeth with was in somewhat stagnant water right off a lee shore, with a stream flowing in at the end of the not so deep bay. Perfect storm maybe. Wasn’t a brilliant move obviously, and like I said, I thought immediately that it might bite me in the…. Which it did. It’s a little more extreme than having diarrhea for an afternoon I can tell you that. Of course at first you don’t realize you have a parasite inside you so you think it will go away, keep eating, then well it’s not more than a half hour until well, the scat hits the fan…. Just thought I’d share. Until you get the pills you are in for a rough time. Dipping from the middle of a BW lake is another story, I’d probably still be ok with it.

First went into the BWCA before it was the BWCA in 1957 and have been drinking from the lake till recently. At the relative cost of filters these days and their effectiveness, it seems prudent to filter as there are too many what-ifs in not filtering. If I were taking groups out today I would definitely insist on filtering. We sometimes used to bring trips in and camp the last night on the chain, where it was definitely not a good idea to drink unboiled water (no filters back then). A kid on a trip my partner brought in didn't listen when told not drink the water and got sick.

tumblehome: "I pulled parts of a tape worm out of my cats butt once. Different story for later.


When you are in camp and the sun is low on a lazy summer evening, you might catch a beaver swimming across that beautiful clear, deep lake and admire his beauty.


And then remember that he likes to poop while he is swimming out in the lake and there might be a decent amount of giardia coming out of him.


And if you shall be so lucky the next day after you’ve slept well and he’s been out all night dashing to and fro in front of of your camp, that you will paddle out and scoop up some fresh, clear, cold water with little microscopic bits of beaver poop.


Take care now.
Tom"

FYI I use a gravity filter despite my previous posts to be funny…

But this is way too alarmist and unrealistic…I’ve been going to the BWCA for 24 years and probably 60 trips…plus I’ve been fishing on remote lakes since the mid 1980’s… Beavers don’t swim down the middle of lakes…they stick around streams, creeks, rivers, or the edge of lakes… if you are dipping where Beavers might sh!T then you deserve giardia…Giardia cysts sink…the greatest risk is getting water from running water, and the edge of lakes where waves bring up the cysts. Even if you filter getting water near shore it still offers risk for getting giardia maybe more than dipping from the middle of the lake…because you are exposing yourself to the most likely area where Giardia cycsts are located there can be cross contamination? There is an argument to be made at least.

Dipping from the middle of the lake is pretty low risk. Maybe the same risk level as filtering near shore…

I think filtering is easy, why not? But don’t exaggerate the risk…

T

What do people think happens to the sewage in the pit toilets, both operating and old ones covered up? It leaches into the water table and into the adjacent lake. Now look at a map and see all the campsites surrounding the lakes. I took my family to Ester lake in 2017 and the open pit toilets were FULL, nearly to ground level. Thinking this is pure wilderness water, and there is no mixing of bacteria into the middle of the lake is foolish. Sure, the solids are filtered somewhat by rocks and will sink into the lake, but drinking from any portion of a lake ringed by raw sewage pit toilets given the visitation the BWCA receives now (not 50 years ago) is just a bad bad idea. Forget the beavers, you have humanity to worry about.

As others have stated, it is today so simple to treat the water. Naglene type bottles have filters in them. Gravity filters ( I have two 6 litre Platypus filters) can supply an entire camp for a couple of days.

Holding on to "tradition" or "the way my Grandpa used to do it" just doesn't fly. We bring med kits for a reason. We wear PFD's for a reason. We cook food thoroughly for a reason. Why ignore a simple safety measure like clean water for tradition?

As to people have become sick on filtered water. . . I would have to call false news. More likely lake water dripping off the outside of the bag after filling the bag got into someone's cup, or the hose was allowed to touch the ground. In our camps I recommend that only one person fills the gravity filters, who is trained to do it properly. Making sure that the filter and hoses never touch the ground and the outsides of the bags are wiped down after hanging.

timatkn: "

tumblehome: "I pulled parts of a tape worm out of my cats butt once. Different story for later.



When you are in camp and the sun is low on a lazy summer evening, you might catch a beaver swimming across that beautiful clear, deep lake and admire his beauty.



And then remember that he likes to poop while he is swimming out in the lake and there might be a decent amount of giardia coming out of him.



And if you shall be so lucky the next day after you’ve slept well and he’s been out all night dashing to and fro in front of of your camp, that you will paddle out and scoop up some fresh, clear, cold water with little microscopic bits of beaver poop.



Take care now.
Tom"

FYI I use a gravity filter despite my previous posts to be funny…

But this is way too alarmist and unrealistic…I’ve been going to the BWCA for 24 years and probably 60 trips…plus I’ve been fishing on remote lakes since the mid 1980’s… Beavers don’t swim down the middle of lakes…they stick around streams, creeks, rivers, or the edge of lakes… if you are dipping where Beavers might sh!T then you deserve giardia…Giardia cysts sink…the greatest risk is getting water from running water, and the edge of lakes where waves bring up the cysts. Even if you filter getting water near shore it still offers risk for getting giardia maybe more than dipping from the middle of the lake…because you are exposing yourself to the most likely area where Giardia cycsts are located there can be cross contamination? There is an argument to be made at least.

Dipping from the middle of the lake is pretty low risk. Maybe the same risk level as filtering near shore…

I think filtering is easy, why not? But don’t exaggerate the risk…


T"

Gotta disagree with you there. Properly filtered water is always going to be safer than dipped water, no matter what part of the lake you get the water from. As other people have pointed out, giardia isn't the only thing in the lake water that can make you sick.

I agree with both sides...sort of. Modern technology has made filtering easy and relatively inexpensive. That said, I will still dip from the middle of the lake on occasion.

Drinking sketchy water is probably not good. Too much cleanliness is not good either. Just as your cardio-vascular and respiratory systems need to be exercised, so does your immune system. If you don't let it conquer the little nasties, the big ones will really throw you for a loop.

Edit: However, I just came across
a really good reason to buy a Sawyer filter or seven

NEIowapaddler: "

timatkn: "

tumblehome: "I pulled parts of a tape worm out of my cats butt once. Different story for later.



When you are in camp and the sun is low on a lazy summer evening, you might catch a beaver swimming across that beautiful clear, deep lake and admire his beauty.



And then remember that he likes to poop while he is swimming out in the lake and there might be a decent amount of giardia coming out of him.



And if you shall be so lucky the next day after you’ve slept well and he’s been out all night dashing to and fro in front of of your camp, that you will paddle out and scoop up some fresh, clear, cold water with little microscopic bits of beaver poop.



Take care now.
Tom"

FYI I use a gravity filter despite my previous posts to be funny…


But this is way too alarmist and unrealistic…I’ve been going to the BWCA for 24 years and probably 60 trips…plus I’ve been fishing on remote lakes since the mid 1980’s… Beavers don’t swim down the middle of lakes…they stick around streams, creeks, rivers, or the edge of lakes… if you are dipping where Beavers might sh!T then you deserve giardia…Giardia cysts sink…the greatest risk is getting water from running water, and the edge of lakes where waves bring up the cysts. Even if you filter getting water near shore it still offers risk for getting giardia maybe more than dipping from the middle of the lake…because you are exposing yourself to the most likely area where Giardia cycsts are located there can be cross contamination? There is an argument to be made at least.


Dipping from the middle of the lake is pretty low risk. Maybe the same risk level as filtering near shore…


I think filtering is easy, why not? But don’t exaggerate the risk…



T"

Gotta disagree with you there. Properly filtered water is always going to be safer than dipped water, no matter what part of the lake you get the water from. As other people have pointed out, giardia isn't the only thing in the lake water that can make you sick. "

I think you missed the entire point of my post :)

I agree with your statement “properly filtered water is always going to be safer than dipped” the key is “properly” filtered…that was the whole point of my long post. Where do you get your water to filter?

People that dip from the lake are usually very careful about the location where they get their water. Because of this it is very low risk…my point is many people that filter are not very careful on where they get their water and quite possibly subjecting themselves to cross contamination. There can be a sense of safety with filtering that creates unnecessary risk. If you get water from the middle of the lake and filter there is no argument on if filtering is safer. Get it from shore, running water, shallow water (less than 15’) etc… those are high risk areas for Giardia. What if you touch the filter, the container, exit spout…the filter now doesn’t matter. You still need to be careful…

T

timatkn: "

NEIowapaddler: "

timatkn: "

tumblehome: "I pulled parts of a tape worm out of my cats butt once. Different story for later.




When you are in camp and the sun is low on a lazy summer evening, you might catch a beaver swimming across that beautiful clear, deep lake and admire his beauty.




And then remember that he likes to poop while he is swimming out in the lake and there might be a decent amount of giardia coming out of him.




And if you shall be so lucky the next day after you’ve slept well and he’s been out all night dashing to and fro in front of of your camp, that you will paddle out and scoop up some fresh, clear, cold water with little microscopic bits of beaver poop.




Take care now.
Tom"

FYI I use a gravity filter despite my previous posts to be funny…



But this is way too alarmist and unrealistic…I’ve been going to the BWCA for 24 years and probably 60 trips…plus I’ve been fishing on remote lakes since the mid 1980’s… Beavers don’t swim down the middle of lakes…they stick around streams, creeks, rivers, or the edge of lakes… if you are dipping where Beavers might sh!T then you deserve giardia…Giardia cysts sink…the greatest risk is getting water from running water, and the edge of lakes where waves bring up the cysts. Even if you filter getting water near shore it still offers risk for getting giardia maybe more than dipping from the middle of the lake…because you are exposing yourself to the most likely area where Giardia cycsts are located there can be cross contamination? There is an argument to be made at least.



Dipping from the middle of the lake is pretty low risk. Maybe the same risk level as filtering near shore…



I think filtering is easy, why not? But don’t exaggerate the risk…



T"

Gotta disagree with you there. Properly filtered water is always going to be safer than dipped water, no matter what part of the lake you get the water from. As other people have pointed out, giardia isn't the only thing in the lake water that can make you sick. "

I think you missed the entire point of my post :)


I agree with your statement “properly filtered water is always going to be safer than dipped” the key is “properly” filtered…that was the whole point of my long post. Where do you get your water to filter?


People that dip from the lake are usually very careful about the location where they get their water. Because of this it is very low risk…my point is many people that filter are not very careful on where they get their water and quite possibly subjecting themselves to cross contamination. There can be a sense of safety with filtering that creates unnecessary risk. If you get water from the middle of the lake and filter there is no argument on if filtering is safer. Get it from shore, running water, shallow water (less than 15’) etc… those are high risk areas for Giardia. What if you touch the filter, the container, exit spout…the filter now doesn’t matter. You still need to be careful…


T"

No, I understood your post perfectly well. You claimed that filtering water from less-than-ideal sources was as risky, or maybe even riskier, than dipping from - theoretically - safer sources. If that were the case - and assuming your statement about the number of people who filter water from risky sources is true - why aren't there more stories of people who filter still getting sick? I mean, yeah, we've all heard the story about so-and-so's cousin's uncle's friend who filtered and got sick, but the vast majority of cases of water-born illnesses in the backcountry are people who didn't filter their water. That's why I stand by my statement that properly filtered water from any source is safer than drinking untreated water. And by properly filtered I mean they're using the filter properly.

And yes, I use a towel to wipe off the outside of the dirty water bag and my hands before I connect the filter and begin filtering. Not necessary, but it provides extra peace of mind.

NEIowapaddler: "

timatkn: "

NEIowapaddler: "

timatkn: "

tumblehome: "I pulled parts of a tape worm out of my cats butt once. Different story for later.





When you are in camp and the sun is low on a lazy summer evening, you might catch a beaver swimming across that beautiful clear, deep lake and admire his beauty.





And then remember that he likes to poop while he is swimming out in the lake and there might be a decent amount of giardia coming out of him.





And if you shall be so lucky the next day after you’ve slept well and he’s been out all night dashing to and fro in front of of your camp, that you will paddle out and scoop up some fresh, clear, cold water with little microscopic bits of beaver poop.





Take care now.
Tom"

FYI I use a gravity filter despite my previous posts to be funny…



But this is way too alarmist and unrealistic…I’ve been going to the BWCA for 24 years and probably 60 trips…plus I’ve been fishing on remote lakes since the mid 1980’s… Beavers don’t swim down the middle of lakes…they stick around streams, creeks, rivers, or the edge of lakes… if you are dipping where Beavers might sh!T then you deserve giardia…Giardia cysts sink…the greatest risk is getting water from running water, and the edge of lakes where waves bring up the cysts. Even if you filter getting water near shore it still offers risk for getting giardia maybe more than dipping from the middle of the lake…because you are exposing yourself to the most likely area where Giardia cycsts are located there can be cross contamination? There is an argument to be made at least.



Dipping from the middle of the lake is pretty low risk. Maybe the same risk level as filtering near shore…



I think filtering is easy, why not? But don’t exaggerate the risk…




T"

Gotta disagree with you there. Properly filtered water is always going to be safer than dipped water, no matter what part of the lake you get the water from. As other people have pointed out, giardia isn't the only thing in the lake water that can make you sick. "

I think you missed the entire point of my post :)



I agree with your statement “properly filtered water is always going to be safer than dipped” the key is “properly” filtered…that was the whole point of my long post. Where do you get your water to filter?



People that dip from the lake are usually very careful about the location where they get their water. Because of this it is very low risk…my point is many people that filter are not very careful on where they get their water and quite possibly subjecting themselves to cross contamination. There can be a sense of safety with filtering that creates unnecessary risk. If you get water from the middle of the lake and filter there is no argument on if filtering is safer. Get it from shore, running water, shallow water (less than 15’) etc… those are high risk areas for Giardia. What if you touch the filter, the container, exit spout…the filter now doesn’t matter. You still need to be careful…



T"

No, I understood your post perfectly well. You claimed that filtering water from less-than-ideal sources was as risky, or maybe even riskier, than dipping from - theoretically - safer sources. If that were the case - and assuming your statement about the number of people who filter water from risky sources is true - why aren't there more stories of people who filter still getting sick? I mean, yeah, we've all heard the story about so-and-so's cousin's uncle's friend who filtered and got sick, but the vast majority of cases of water-born illnesses in the backcountry are people who didn't filter their water. That's why I stand by my statement that properly filtered water from any source is safer than drinking untreated water. And by properly filtered I mean they're using the filter properly.


And yes, I use a towel to wipe off the outside of the dirty water bag and my hands before I connect the filter and begin filtering. Not necessary, but it provides extra peace of mind. "

It is important to remember that the number of BWCA trippers using filters is extremely small compared to the backpacking community that has filtered water for generations. Filtering water is the common and accepted approach to drinking water from lakes and streams among that group. And they fill from the shore (no canoes)

ockycamper: "

NEIowapaddler: "

timatkn: "

NEIowapaddler: "

timatkn: "

tumblehome: "I pulled parts of a tape worm out of my cats butt once. Different story for later.





When you are in camp and the sun is low on a lazy summer evening, you might catch a beaver swimming across that beautiful clear, deep lake and admire his beauty.





And then remember that he likes to poop while he is swimming out in the lake and there might be a decent amount of giardia coming out of him.





And if you shall be so lucky the next day after you’ve slept well and he’s been out all night dashing to and fro in front of of your camp, that you will paddle out and scoop up some fresh, clear, cold water with little microscopic bits of beaver poop.





Take care now.
Tom"

FYI I use a gravity filter despite my previous posts to be funny…




But this is way too alarmist and unrealistic…I’ve been going to the BWCA for 24 years and probably 60 trips…plus I’ve been fishing on remote lakes since the mid 1980’s… Beavers don’t swim down the middle of lakes…they stick around streams, creeks, rivers, or the edge of lakes… if you are dipping where Beavers might sh!T then you deserve giardia…Giardia cysts sink…the greatest risk is getting water from running water, and the edge of lakes where waves bring up the cysts. Even if you filter getting water near shore it still offers risk for getting giardia maybe more than dipping from the middle of the lake…because you are exposing yourself to the most likely area where Giardia cycsts are located there can be cross contamination? There is an argument to be made at least.




Dipping from the middle of the lake is pretty low risk. Maybe the same risk level as filtering near shore…




I think filtering is easy, why not? But don’t exaggerate the risk…





T"

Gotta disagree with you there. Properly filtered water is always going to be safer than dipped water, no matter what part of the lake you get the water from. As other people have pointed out, giardia isn't the only thing in the lake water that can make you sick. "

I think you missed the entire point of my post :)



I agree with your statement “properly filtered water is always going to be safer than dipped” the key is “properly” filtered…that was the whole point of my long post. Where do you get your water to filter?



People that dip from the lake are usually very careful about the location where they get their water. Because of this it is very low risk…my point is many people that filter are not very careful on where they get their water and quite possibly subjecting themselves to cross contamination. There can be a sense of safety with filtering that creates unnecessary risk. If you get water from the middle of the lake and filter there is no argument on if filtering is safer. Get it from shore, running water, shallow water (less than 15’) etc… those are high risk areas for Giardia. What if you touch the filter, the container, exit spout…the filter now doesn’t matter. You still need to be careful…



T"

No, I understood your post perfectly well. You claimed that filtering water from less-than-ideal sources was as risky, or maybe even riskier, than dipping from - theoretically - safer sources. If that were the case - and assuming your statement about the number of people who filter water from risky sources is true - why aren't there more stories of people who filter still getting sick? I mean, yeah, we've all heard the story about so-and-so's cousin's uncle's friend who filtered and got sick, but the vast majority of cases of water-born illnesses in the backcountry are people who didn't filter their water. That's why I stand by my statement that properly filtered water from any source is safer than drinking untreated water. And by properly filtered I mean they're using the filter properly.



And yes, I use a towel to wipe off the outside of the dirty water bag and my hands before I connect the filter and begin filtering. Not necessary, but it provides extra peace of mind. "

It is important to remember that the number of BWCA trippers using filters is extremely small compared to the backpacking community that has filtered water for generations. Filtering water is the common and accepted approach to drinking water from lakes and streams among that group. And they fill from the shore (no canoes)"

I guess we will just disagree…your chance of getting Giardia from the middle of a big lake is next to zero…Giardia cysts sink, UV light kills Giardia, beavers don’t swim in the middle of big lakes, how would Giardia get there? You can’t catch that which cannot exist in a location. While filtering from a poorer source there is still a risk…hence why backpackers who filter still get Giardia each year. People have reported on this very sight that they got sick even though they filtered their water. Maybe it’s happened but I’ve never heard of someone who always dipped from the middle of big lakes get Giardia. I’ve heard and read of people getting it from running water, near shore, stagnant water get Giardia…once again filtered or not.

I am not saying don’t filter, I use a gravity filter myself, the middle of the lake idea can’t be used on many lakes anyway so the argument is moot to some extent.

T