Several lakes are in both the USA and Canada. If I'm camping on the USA side of the lake, can I fish on the Canadian side? Should I buy a Canadian license in addition to the MN license to be safe, or is either license valid on a border lake?

Not only would you need an ontario fishing license, but you'd need the fishing card also

quote mr.barley: "Not only would you need an ontario fishing license, but you'd need the fishing card also"

Outdoors card

Also unless it has changed, no live bait in the Quetico either!

Bruce

quote Arkansas Man: "Also unless it has changed, no live bait in the Quetico either!

Bruce"

and barbless hooks

All those regs on border lakes where the water is in both Canada and the U.S.? Can anyone post a reference? Seems to me that it would be pretty hard to split the rules on a lake that's in both countries. I'll do some looking, too.

I think you'll find the Candian Rangers have very good GPSs and they like to use them.

Tell it to the Canadian Judge ;-)

To fish the Canadian side you need: RABC (remote access border crossing permit), Outdoors card, Canadian fishing license.

Wow! Sounds like I need 3 separate documents????? Is there a place online where I can obtain all of these? Thanks for all the input. This is a great forum!

If I were in the Bwca, fishing a border lake like LLC or Crooked, I would just stick to the US side. forget all the documentation, licenses, permits, and extra expense of time and money. There are more than enough islands and bays to fish in and around to satisfy your fishing needs.

quote mooseplums: "If I were in the Bwca, fishing a border lake like LLC or Crooked, I would just stick to the US side. forget all the documentation, licenses, permits, and extra expense of time and money. There are more than enough islands and bays to fish in and around to satisfy your fishing needs. "

Me too. Plenty of good fishing on MN side. No need to test the boundary.

Yeah, I understand the "just don't go over there" answer, but I like to move around a lot while fishing and was hoping all I needed was a license. It will be hard for me to stay south of a line I can't even see. I don't want to fish looking over my shoulder either so I'll probably take your advice. Thanks for all the input!

There are a few border lakes that I fish a lot. To get your Ontario Outdoors Card and fishing license just call 1-800-667-1940. To get your RABC permit go here fill out the form and mail it in. If you only get up that way once per year it might not be worth the hassle but if you take a few trips (or more) per year up to border country there are several advantages to having the freedom to fish both sides of a lake.

Some rules to be aware of in Ontario (non-quetico). If you use leeches or live minnows they have to be purchased in Canada. It is ok to bring night crawlers across the border. If you are a lake trout guy you cannot use smelt, but can use ciscos on the Canadian side of the lake. Of course don't use those ciscos on the US side, that could be an expensive day of fishing. Also, it is a $1,000 fine if you are caught in Ontario without a border crossing permit and they usually enforce that.

Quetico lakes: In addition to the border permit, outdoor card, and license you would need to get a day pass for the park at a Quetico Ranger station. Plus there is the barbless hook rule and you can't use any bait, dead or alive (GRRRRRRRR).

I wish the border lakes would do something reciprocal like the States do (MN/WI) for example. If your license says u can use it, u can use it, or whatever they do. A "common" set of rules instead of these goofy international things...

quote Amok: "I wish the border lakes would do something reciprocal like the States do (MN/WI) for example. If your license says u can use it, u can use it, or whatever they do. A "common" set of rules instead of these goofy international things..."

Easier said than done. Two countries vs two states... Ontario makes their laws based on helping US tourists use Ontario services.

Perhaps if more Ontario residents took vacations in MN...

quote krick: "It will be hard for me to stay south of a line I can't even see."

You could consider a non-border route if you're concerned about your navigational skills.

quote old_salt: "

quote Amok: "I wish the border lakes would do something reciprocal like the States do (MN/WI) for example. If your license says u can use it, u can use it, or whatever they do. A "common" set of rules instead of these goofy international things..."

Easier said than done. Two countries vs two states... Ontario makes their laws based on helping US tourists use Ontario services...

Perhaps if more Ontario residents took vacations in MN..."

I know. It's wishful thinking on my part. It'll never happen, even with a very useful loophole of using "state/fed/queen" land for recreational use as an excuse.

Of course, I'm talking immediate boundaries only, no all-encompassing rules for both parks.

I've read extensively on this site and everything I could find from Ontario from many different agencies on regulations for fishing and camping, specifically for the La Verendrye Provincial Park side of the BW from Sag down to where Pigeon river park starts. Unfortunately, it seemed Canada wanted to bury that information. After having to go thru countless websites that would give you a link to a different one to find the information and so on, I finally went and printed pieces of the different regulations to make sense of it.

With that said, here's what I found.

Yes, obviously need Ontario Outdoors Card, fishing license, and RABC. You do not need any camping permits unless you camp beyond the boundary of the La Verendrye Provincial Park. I found nothing on hook restrictions. I know there have been discussions about bait.

I will share what I've learned from both sides of the border because I want to use live bait on these lakes.

First with the Canadian side. For lakes entirely within Canada, you're already traveling in Canada to get to the lake so buy your bait up there. In Minnesota, importing minnows, live or frozen, is not allowed except I found Minnesota Statute 97C.341 which basically reads if you have the proper documents to prove it's VHS free, you can import them, meaning if I can find a Canadian bait store in BMZ 6 that would ship them to me, I could legally possess them in Minnesota and cross over to the Canada side of these lakes and be legal to possess and use.

Ironically, the reasons for bait restrictions from both sides are the exact same. Both sides have implemented buying and selling rules for bait that are almost identical. So I can buy VHS free bait in Minnesota and use it on the Minnesota side of these border lakes and if it comes off my hook and swims over to the Canadian side no problem...... BUT if I paddle over the Canadian line with the same minnows I become a criminal?? Ridiculous. Canada and Minnesota need to look at each others paperwork for buying and selling disease free bait and then remove these restrictions from these lakes.

Winter1: You do not need any camping permits unless you camp beyond the boundary of the La Verendrye provincial park. "

Fun to see these antique threads continuing to help folks years later.

On the camping thing, you are correct if you are a resident of Canada. If you are not a resident, you will need a Crown Land Camping permit for any public (crown) land or for "non-operating" parks of Ontario.

New to the site and did'nt introduce myself. I'm Ryan and I have lived on the Northshore my entire life. I live fairly close to the BW and started going there with my folks when I was little. So about 40ish years. I didn't like the creation of the BW when I was young because my family and so many others had a nice cabin in what is now the BW. They were given a short notice to get their belongings out and they burned it to the ground.

Fast forward to today and I'm glad we have it. I'm sure my opinion on how the BW is managed differs from the majority that use it and advocate for it. My friends and family that have been going there before the BW started all agree that the forest needs to be managed. It can be done with not only a zero impact to the environment but a huge benefit to it for all aspects of nature.

To be clear, I'm NOT talking about clear cutting the whole thing like they did to our white pine forest years ago. For those who do not live around here and have the BW in their back yard it seems that they are bullies protecting their personal playground and in this instance are literally throwing gas on the fire.

In closing the comment you made about the antique thread helping people was very true and as long as Minnesota and Canada keep changing their rules and regulations these conversations will continue.

Winter1: Welcome to the site!

I am not sure I understood all of your post.

Some of the rules have changed since this originals thread…call to verify…don’t just believe internet posts :)

I believe now you can fish Canadian waters without an RABC as long as you don’t touch Canadian soil. If you do a shore lunch, go to shore for the bathroom then you would need the RABC. For fish length and limits you need to follow the province or state that has the most restrictive rules.

You would still need to have an Ontario outdoors card, Ontario license, if you are in Quetico Park waters then you may need a day permit and you would need to follow all Quetico Park rules: no live or dead bait in possession and the hook on your line needs to be barbless.

For non-Quetico Waters no day permit needed. I don’t know the rules for bait, my guess is minnows and leeches would not be allowed to cross the border and you would need proof that they were bought in Canada if you got caught with them?


T

To clarify, the information I gathered was all from the different governing agencies of both sides and all the reading I've done on this site was to see if the answers to my questions were discussed here or spot things I may have missed.

I've been going into Canada since I was a kid but missed out on going for about 15 years to raise my own kids so I'm fairly experienced at how Canada takes care of business. That's why I laugh out loud reading some of the posts on this site about Canada.

For those on this site who have encountered the Canadian authorities who can enforce their laws, they are spot on correct that there is no grey area and no exceptions to knowing and abiding by their rules and regulations. Some people just get lucky. Also the thought that the more restrictive side is what determines your limits and size restrictions on possessing fish is false. This is only true if you can't provide a receipt or other paperwork that shows you were in Canada when you caught those fish. Furthermore you can legally possess your limit of fish for both sides at the same time if you have the receipts or paperwork to show you were in Canada for the fish you have along with your allowable Minnesota fish.

Obviously like many other things our DNR does, they don't make that publicized information. Simply put if you have the required licenses to lawfully possess fish from Canada or any other state along with receipts or paperwork to show you were there to catch those fish it's legal.

This is an interesting thread and legal question - a question that should not be rapidly dismissed nor answered with anecdotal responses. IMO it rises to the highest levels of legal analysis, knowing that the treaties establishing the border in the BWCA have prompted numerous cases rising to the Supreme Court.

The question involves the "Free and open" clause of the Webster Ashburton and subsequent treaties. The usual water communications and their portages are free and open for travel and commerce to citizens of Canada and the US. However sovereignty of the nations extend to midstream. We understand from legal precedent that you may not anchor and go to shore without an RABC and Passport, but fishing is usually permitted without these qualifications and it is understood to be an activity of recreation or commerce and as a traditional food source for voyageurs transiting the usual waterways.

As an example, many fishing guide services on Lake of the Woods set out from the US and fish all day long in Canadian waters with a boat full of US sportsmen who have no permits, sportscards, or fishing licenses. In some cases the guides require a sportscard - just to be on the safe side - but no one has stated that this is a certain requirement. In fact, this practice has irritated many on the Canadian side. One of the reasons Lake of the Woods guide fishing hasn't been addressed is that the legal definition of fishing as commerce or recreation may fall under the "free and open" clause.

If I'm understanding what I've read, in the case, PIGEON RIVER CO. v. COX CO, the court determined that neither nation can impose discriminatory burdens such as taxes - discriminating on the basis of citizenship. At the same time, the court did conclude that a company on one side of the waterway can impose a toll to use an improved passage - but they must allow citizens of both nations to use the improved passage and pay the same toll without discrimination. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USREPORTS-291/pdf/USREPORTS-291-138.pdf

A legal case could be put forth that the arduous Canadian permitting - including the suspension of RABC causes an burden such as a tax that prevents the free and open use of the waterways in regards to fishing and hunting. They do not implement RABC on their own citizens and have suspended applications for the US citizens - setting up a discrimination based on citizenship. One could even point to traditions dating back to the fur trading era when voyageurs were required to fish and hunt along these water communications for food while in transit to support the traditional understanding of free and open use of the waterways. I am not a lawyer - but I do find the nuances of these arguments fascinating.

This is not a legal argument that to my knowledge has been made to date. But I am saying that it could be made - and it is not as cut and dry as saying you cannot fish a millimeter over the midstream border without a bevy of special hard to obtain permits. Also, to date, I haven't seen any hard written rules which stipulate that a canoeist that is unanchored cannot cast, catch, and keep a fish from either side of the midstream border. If there are, I'd love to see them - specifically guidance from Canadian Border Services. The only thing I can find are individual opinions based on personal practices, morals, and traditions - all of which seem reasonable - but the actual interpretation of law can sometimes be surprising.

I will just add to this that there are special fishing regulations for the border lakes that a fairly generous for limits. And I do believe the MN regulations match the Ontario regulations on these specified waters.

Well….. that was a long winded reply. I have a feeling that there is a lot of AI in that reply.

The answer is still no, you can’t fish Canadian waters without all the paperwork associated with it. You can utilize international waters as a means of conveyance from one US side to the other, but you cannot participate in recreational activities nor land on foreign soil.

Not too much room for interpretation or precedent. It’s all been hashed out over the last 225 years. Many have tried to forgo the law and many have paid the price.

Tom

Just to add a little to what has been said and to illustrate how uncompromising the rules are. We had two teenage boys along on a trip down the Basswood river. They were told not to fish the Canadian side, but being teenage boys they made some casts from midstream towards the Canadian side and ended up being chastised and escorted back to our camp by a Canadian ranger who explained how the border was mid stream and they needed proper permits to fish the Canadian side. Obviously we knew this which is why they were told not to do it but it illustrates the Canadians willingness to enforce the rules precisely. Another group I know got ticketed for casting towards the Canadian side of Bottle lake without proper licenses and permits. In both cases the actual canoes were on the US side only the lines and lures were on the Canadian side.

Getting a ticket for casting towards the Canadian side seems excessive. Especially on a stream or river because that would make it essentially unfishable unless it's big enough. The most that US rangers can do on the Mexican boarder is confiscate or cut illegal fishing nets on our side of the boarder. Even if they catch the person in the act, unless they are on the US side at the time, they can't do anything. Why can Canadian rangers come on to the US side to cite or lecture US citizens that never crossed the boarder into Canadian territory?

It is an "international" border. We are so used to basically ignoring borders in the USA and even some other international borders (e.g. Schengen Area of Europe). This is not like fishing the Menominee River between Wisconsin and Michigan.

The word is sovereignty. Respect for the other country's rights over their boundaries and the use/harvesting of their resources. They want to be fairly compensated for the right to use their resources (waterways) and harvest their bounty (fish). They also have a right to know who is within their borders.

RE: Casting from the USA into Canada - Let me give you another scenario - You are standing on the US side of the land border with a bow with arrows that have a string or wire attached. You are hunting small game/varmint. You spy a coyote on the Canadian side. You take careful aim and make the kill. Now you reel in the varmint with the carcass crossing the border as you do. Assuming you are legal in your state/US, have you committed an infraction of Canadian border/hunting laws? You have taken an animal that was clearly on the Canadian side of the border, but you have never crossed the border.

Be respectful of other countries and their laws. Be clearly on the side of being lawful.

Americans like to push the boundaries of the law. Nothing so clearly demonstrates this as our constant speeding on our highways and streets. Other countries do not tolerate this behavior. Why is this a surprise to us when their law enforcement require us to follow the law to the letter?

The law differs if you have a Canadian fishing license, RABC permit, etc.. Also, the laws change with time stay up to date. Also, I have herd of people having problems for having liquor and crossing.

I have been "yelled at" from people at Canadian Customs Prairie Portage for fishing the "line." Also look what Happened to Latourell's, Jim Maki and more for netting Cisco's on the line. Property taken and destroyed, yet I don't think anyone was ever charged.

OgemaBlackstone: "The law differs if you have a Canadian fishing license, RABC permit, etc.. Also, the laws change with time stay up to date. Also, I have herd of people having problems for having liquor and crossing.


I have been "yelled at" from people at Canadian Customs Prairie Portage for fishing the "line." Also look what Happened to Latourell's, Jim Maki and more for netting Cisco's on the line. Property taken and destroyed, yet I don't think anyone was ever charged. "

I don’t think the Cisco scenario was limited to netting the line. I believe they were landing on the Canadian side also. I think years later there were small fines issued.

Finnboy: "

OgemaBlackstone: "The law differs if you have a Canadian fishing license, RABC permit, etc.. Also, the laws change with time stay up to date. Also, I have herd of people having problems for having liquor and crossing.

I have been "yelled at" from people at Canadian Customs Prairie Portage for fishing the "line." Also look what Happened to Latourell's, Jim Maki and more for netting Cisco's on the line. Property taken and destroyed, yet I don't think anyone was ever charged. "

I don’t think the Cisco scenario was limited to netting the line. I believe they were landing on the Canadian side also. I think years later there were small fines issued. "

I might be wrong but I am pretty sure that case is still pending. The investigation started in 2012…search warrants issued in 2016…charges issued in 2020…a couple dismissal requests by the defendants dragging it out…the Feds are slow and methodical but they have almost a 100% conviction record with that approach.

I could be wrong though, so please correct. The only thing I found were court records in 2021 and 2022 for filings for dismissing the case or removing evidence that were reviewed but determined the case would go forward.

Michwall2: "Americans like to push the boundaries of the law. Nothing so clearly demonstrates this as our constant speeding on our highways and streets. Other countries do not tolerate this behavior. Why is this a surprise to us when their law enforcement require us to follow the law to the letter?"

The surprising part is that they can cross the boarder and impose their laws onto someone that never entered their jurisdiction. I get not crossing into Canada even on a lake, you cross the line and you put yourself under their rules. If I never cross the boarder though, they shouldn't be able to touch me. At most they should only be able to cut the line while it is on their side or call American law enforcement to get them to fine you.

If I was standing on the US side of a river and fishing below some rapids and a Canadian ranger tried to give me a ticket, I probably would have told him to take a hike because the whole concept sounds ridiculous.

A1t2o: "

Michwall2: "Americans like to push the boundaries of the law. Nothing so clearly demonstrates this as our constant speeding on our highways and streets. Other countries do not tolerate this behavior. Why is this a surprise to us when their law enforcement require us to follow the law to the letter?"

The surprising part is that they can cross the boarder and impose their laws onto someone that never entered their jurisdiction. I get not crossing into Canada even on a lake, you cross the line and you put yourself under their rules. If I never cross the boarder though, they shouldn't be able to touch me. At most they should only be able to cut the line while it is on their side or call American law enforcement to get them to fine you.


If I was standing on the US side of a river and fishing below some rapids and a Canadian ranger tried to give me a ticket, I probably would have told him to take a hike because the whole concept sounds ridiculous. "

Casting on to their side is fishing their waters. We have mutual agreements to cross the border to apprehend law violators. Chincy…Maybe? So is casting into Canada…

T

tumblehome: "Well….. that was a long winded reply. I have a feeling that there is a lot of AI in that reply.

The answer is still no, you can’t fish Canadian waters without all the paperwork associated with it. You can utilize international waters as a means of conveyance from one US side to the other, but you cannot participate in recreational activities nor land on foreign soil.

Not too much room for interpretation or precedent. It’s all been hashed out over the last 225 years. Many have tried to forgo the law and many have paid the price.

Tom"

I have a question....I hope this hasn't already been addressed above...what does a Canadian resident need to enter the US side of a border lake to fish? Out of curiosity?

This may have been somewhere too, but if you have ever fished LLC, you know well that Canadians have no issue coming across in their boats. It's an every day thing. Not a validation nor argument, just a statement.