Looking for opinions on which solo canoe is the most seaworthy. By seaworthy I mean able to handle large waves yet having a low-enough profile so that the wind doesn't grab ahold of the canoe too much. My canoe that I solo in is a Mad River Malecite of 16.5' length with bow height of 16", center height of 12", and stern height of 15". This canoe is not a true solo canoe, -it's a dual purpose light tandem/solo. Total load weight when I solo is around 280 pounds. I've been happy with it's performance in the BWCA but wondering how much better I could do. I'm sure with a spray cover and skirt I could improve on both aspects of seaworthiness.

I'm especially gearing this toward paddling in ocean conditions with expected windy conditions and strong tidal currents. So any ocean paddling experiences or incite appreciated.

Thanks, BeaV

Kruger Canoes hands down. I currently paddle Verlen's second generation model, the Monarch and have a third generation, the Sea Wind, on my wish list. I purchased my Monarch in 1985 and someone will still be paddling it when I am long gone.

Take the time to email Mark at Kruger Canoes as he is a fine young man and goes the extra mile in the canoes he builds. I plan to have my Sea Wind built in 2012. Enough said. Kim :+]

quote JoeWilderness: " Kruger Canoes hands down. I currently paddle Verlen's second generation model, the Monarch and have a third generation, the Sea Wind, on my wish list. I purchased my Monarch in 1985 and someone will still be paddling it when I am long gone.

Take the time to email Mark at Kruger Canoes as he is a fine young man and goes the extra mile in the canoes he builds. I plan to have my Sea Wind built in 2012. Enough said. Kim :+]"

Thanks, Kim. Yes, I just started researching the Sea Wind as well as some other makers of decked canoes. I can definately see they are the most seaworthy boats out there, but I'd have to get used to the kayak look to 'em. I'm not sure if they should be called a canoe or a kayak. I may end up going this route but I'd sure like to stick with the standard open canoe if I can find something I'm comfortable with. I'm a canoe'r not a kayaker so I'm definately not going with a kayak on my journey.

Do you get wet paddling your Monarch in big surf on the great lakes or the ocean? How does it do going against river current vs a regular canoe?

For the most part, I only get wet when it rains. Ha! Actually, I have a cockpit cover, so all I need to wear is a rain jacket. You would not believe the water I have paddled on here in Michigan or even the waves on Pickerel Lake in the Quetico in 1989. By design you will be able to paddle in windy conditions when others can't. With a rudder, you can even paddle on the same side all day if you want. I use bent shaft paddles to move me along. Carbon Fiber now with my 1985 Bending Branches as my second which is secured on the deck in front and along side me. I don't get caught up in the debate about what kind of boat it is. It is what I am into...... But then I knew Verlen and even had the chance to paddle with him.....There are many events here in Michigan where you will see lots of these boats.

Be sure to read Mark's blog located on the
Verlen Kruger Memorial Site and look at all the events there. I participated in the "Tip of the Mitt" event in June of this year until sickness caught up with me. On the route that goes across the tip, it all begins by going up river and some sections even have to be poled. Also, the new "Iron Mushroom" event finishes by going up river. These events are not for the faint of heart.

Heck, Verlen paddled up the Colorado!!!!

Sure they do weight more than open solos; yet, they are "Expedition" type boats and you don't have to worry about running into rocks, dragging your boat over them or much of anything else.

However, should you decide to go with an open design boat, you are in the right place for advice. There are lots of seasoned trippers here with many trips and miles behind them that will help you sort out what is most important for YOU!!!!

Right now I have two boats and looking at two or three more. I just know I am going to want a lighter weight tandem one day. Different boats for different reasons. If I don't die paddling one, I hope it's buying one. Ha!

So,please keep us all up-to-date in your search for the canoe that seems right for YOU!!!

quote JoeWilderness: "For the most part, I only get wet when it rains. Ha! Actually, I have a cockpit cover, so all I need to wear is a rain jacket. You would not believe the water I have paddled on here in Michigan or even the waves on Pickeral Lake in the Quetico in 1989. By design you will be able to paddle in windy conditions when others can't. I use bent shaft paddles to move me along. Carbon Fiber now with my 1985 Bending Branches as my second which is secured on the deck in front and along side me. I don't get caught up in the debate about what kind of boat it is. It is what I am into...... But then I knew Verlen and even had the chance to paddle with him.....There are many events here in Michigan where you will see lots of these boats.


Be sure to read the Mark's blog at Kruger Canoes and also go to the
Verlen Kruger Memorial Site and look at all the events there. I participated in the "Tip of the Mitt" event in June of this year until sickness caught up with me. On the route that goes across the tip, it all begins by going up river. Also, new "Iron Mushroom" event finsihes by going up river. These events are not for the faint of heart...... Heck, Verlen paddled up the Colorado!!!!


However, should you decide to go with an open design boat, you are in the right place for advice. There are lots of seasoned trippers here with many trips and miles behind them that will help you sort out what is most important for YOU!!!!


Please keep us all up-to-date in your search for the canoe that seems right for you. "

Thanks for the info, I'm getting more interested by the minute. And I just read about some of Verlen's trips- WOW!!! He's my kind of guy. And I see what his design is capable of. That's just what I need. A boat that can handle the ocean, rivers (up and down current), and portagable. I see Verlen has traveled much of the same water I am planning for. I"m in the early stages of planning my trip but am thinking of the following route:

1st leg: The NW Inside Passage- Seattle, WA to Skagway, AK
2nd leg: Portage the Chilkoot Trail, down the Yukon River (possibly detouring up the Chandelar River, bushwhacking to the Koyukuk River, back to the Yukon River) to the Bering Sea. All in one season w/o layovers.

63 pound solo?!

BeaV, you need to call Mark and talk to him. Tell him I said hello.My last name is on my member profile.

For the adventures that your dreaming about, you need to get your butt in a Kruger canoe.... Oh, I am not a kayaker either. Way too much work to pack, unpack and etc.

The more you research Verlen, the more you will want to paddle one of his boats.

Many Kruger owners have their own websites where they share about all their adventures.


Yes BillConner01, they are advertised at 63 pounds, yet I think most of them come in a bit lighter than that. That is why I double portage. Ha! At some of these events, some Kruger owners just drag their loaded boats across the portage. I don't think I could ever do that. Nope.

I will weight my Monarch again soon. It weights way less than a Sea Wind. Verlen sold the design rights of the Monarch to Mad River and that is who built mine, back when they were still located in Vermont. They did not build them quite to Verlens standards and that is why mine is a bit lighter. Also why I needed to make a few modifications.

.

Undoubtedly the Krugers are the ultimate.

But its very possible to paddle other solos on big water. I did an eight day Lake Superior trip with a RapidFire by Placid Boatworks with a full spray cover. Not its first trip on big waters..do the Gulf of Mexico with it too.

And just got back from three days on the Atlantic Ocean in Maine camping on offshore islands also in RapidFire. I would say its weakness is its a smaller volume solo and cannot handle a huge fresh drinking water load without the waterline getting sunk a little deeper than I would like. That is mostly a concern with Florida Bay paddling and a hundred pounds of fresh water.

What I do like about the RF is quick entry exit and I can heave a big pack out fast on a surf landing. Plus 23 lbs is a nice thing on portages. Can be double bladed and also single..I use a 46 inch 12 degree bent from Foxworx.

"Big water " is relative. I would like to do more ocean stuff and do want a real sea canoe but for now with patience and quite a bit of sea kayak experience I get by just fine in a smaller undecked canoe. I have also used Hemlock Peregrine and Curtis Nomad.

Like others I have no patience with fiddly small kayak hatches. Those 8 inch Valley ones drive me nuts..impossible to pack aside from one item at a time.

I am spoiled with my rudder. I would most likely just go around in circles in a Magic! Ha!

This is what we rode out to an Island in the Phillipines. No lifejackets or nothin'. I was impressed with the stability. Here in the states I'd go to Spring Creek and get their float system. Floats

I was up to Maine for a schooner trip in June of 2008 and saw a lot of kayakers out there. My first thought was, "How are they carrying water?"

I have also paddled big water in my tandem and couldn't agree more with yellowcanoe about a spray cover. I would love to trip around Superior one day too.... You all got me dreamin' again!!!!

That RapidFire is one light boat!!!

Hey!....I love your original canoe!
....but I don't think I'd take down the Inside Passage ;)

quote cowdoc: "Hey!....I love your original canoe!
....but I don't think I'd take down the Inside Passage ;)"

Ya nice ride you have there. Mine is red with wood trim also. Mine is a 1997 vintage. Looks like the new Malecite's are bigger boats than mine (based on the current specs). I really like it but I don't like paddling from the center position unless the wind requires it (akward for me to paddle at 34" width). I don't want to paddle from that position for the 1700 mile Inside Passage, even if it was seaworthy enough. That's why I'm thinking of trying other solo canoes with less width.

quote BeaV: "

quote cowdoc: "Hey!....I love your original canoe!
....but I don't think I'd take down the Inside Passage ;)"

I just noticed you don't have the third center (solo) seat that I have. If the winds not to bad, I paddle from the stern or bow.

...it's a 94 model that I refinished. I flip it around and paddle from the bow seat.Works pretty good when trimmed right. I'm thinking of moving the bow seat back about 6 inches to help with solo and tandem paddling. Even when you set a good tandem up to solo....it still doesnt handle like a good solo boat.

quote cowdoc: "...it's a 94 model that I refinished. I flip it around and paddle from the bow seat.Works pretty good when trimmed right. I'm thinking of moving the bow seat back about 6 inches to help with solo and tandem paddling. Even when you set a good tandem up to solo....it still doesnt handle like a good solo boat."

cowdoc, just another reason for you to get another boat too! Ha!

Is the Inside Passage on the Itinerary?!

If so the most pertinent question is "what is the most seaworthy solo canoe that provides the best accommodations"

For sure a Sea Wind. You cannot sleep in most solo canoes. You can sleep in a Sea Wind.

I have only traveled the Inside Passage on the Alaska State Ferry..but there are many places where the mountains meet the sea. No beach for miles.

Sorry but I did not know that your big water also entailed no landings for many miles.

quote yellowcanoe: "Is the Inside Passage on the Itinerary?!

Sorry but I did not know that your big water also entailed no landings for many miles."

Yellowcanoe, yes the Inside Passage is part of the itinerary and I'm learning that suitable campsites can be few and far between. The big changes in tides also complicates camping matters.

I'm impressed with the Placid RapidFire- looks alot like a little smaller version of the Bell Magic or the Souris River Tranquility. I'm leaning toward the Sea Wind- has alot of advantages over an open-decked canoe.....but I sure would like to do it in a open-decked canoe(w/a splash cover).

Thanks for the advice. BeaV

The RapidFire is not related to either the Tranquility Solo nor the Magic but rather the old Curtis Vagabond.

Thanks for everyone's input on this topic. I am nearly convinced that the Kruger Sea Wind is what I will purchase for this trip. Only thing is, I'd like to be able to sit in one and give it a try before I place an order. Does anyone here own a Sea Wind or know someone who does and is located in Minnesota or western Wisconsin and wouldn't mind renting it to me for a half day or I could bring my canoe and we could go canoeing somewhere local and swap canoes for awhile?

Thanks, BeaV

Better get on the Sea Wind list if you want one..I have no idea what lead time is but it could be a while.

And they want a grand up front ..I would not do that unless I had a time frame for delivery.

BeaV,


I am trying to find a person with a Kruger that lives near you. If not, you may use my Monarch for as long as you like. Shoot me an email and we will work something out.

Mark at Kruger Canoes is a wonderful young man. If you haven't chatted with him yet, do so.


Kim :+]

quote JoeWilderness: "


BeaV,



I am trying to find a person with a Kruger that lives near you. If not, you may use my Monarch for as long as you like. Shoot me an email and we will work something out.


Mark at Kruger Canoes is a wonderful young man. If you haven't chatted with him yet, do so.



Kim :+]


"

Thanks Kim, I exchanged emails with Mark and he too is trying to find someone with a Sea Wind close to me. Looks like you're located on the east side of Lake Michigan?

If you don't find someone near you let me know. I am more than willing to meet you in Madison, WI. I am unable to paddle my boat right now, so you are most welcome to.

Just an update- I was able to try a Sea Wind on Lake Superior back in November. I was very impressed. I placed an order with Kruger Canoes today.

BeaV

Merry Christmas! and good luck with your purchase and your trip.

Thanks for the update BeaV and welcome to the Kruger Team. It is the right boat for your upcoming trip.

boonie is right....."Merry Christmas!"

be prepared for an 8 paragraph critique from yellowcanoe. :)

the old town penobscot 16 makes an excellent "sea worthy" solo canoe, but it is not sea worthy at all as a tandem. as a solo boat, with descent lines, considering, i find this boat very competent in wilderness trekking, and in an occasional class three whitewater, situation. but it not exceptional on flat water, but surprisingly good. if someone was to ask me what was the best solo, wilderness river boat, meaning rapids and nasty Canadian crap, this would be the boat i recommend, it and it's 17 ft sister are standouts amongst the royalex boats. besides the belly wobbles, these canoes paddle like we expect old towns to paddle.

I found out last Wednesday that my new Sea Wind was scheduled to be completed on last Friday. Mark from Kruger Canoes asked me "so when do you think you'll come to pick it up?" I left the next day and arrived on Friday (it's a 13 hour drive). The boat is beautiful both in form and function.



On my way back to MN, I launched the new boat in Lake Michigan. It felt great to be in the boat that's going to take me to, through, and around Alaska. It was fitting that my "Most Sea-Worthy Canoe" maiden voyage be in one of the Great Lakes. I was a little overwhelmed and very excited for what lies ahead for this canoe and me!

Thanks JW and YC for steering me in the right direction.

BeaV

That is a beautiful boat!! Congratulations on your purchase!

Another Mad River, if you can find it: The Traveler. It was a high volume solo tripper with low profile, 16.5'. If you can find one on Craigs or ebay it would be worth it. Maybe call the MRC hq and see whether they might have any NOS or used.

Looks great. I can tell you're excited :). When does your big trip begin?

quote boonie: "Looks great. I can tell you're excited :). When does your big trip begin?"

Yes I'm very excited. The trip doesn't start until next March (at least it's less than a year away now). It can be difficult to concentrate on anything else.

quote shsylvester: "Another Mad River, if you can find it: The Traveler. It was a high volume solo tripper with low profile, 16.5'. If you can find one on Craigs or ebay it would be worth it. Maybe call the MRC hq and see whether they might have any NOS or used."

I have a friend with one of those old boats and it might be him but he was flat down for the count when the wind comes up. However what I think did that boat in for him was the weight.

Anyway congrats on your purchase. Any purchase that gets you out where you want to go safely is a good purchase.

quote BeaV: "

quote boonie: "Looks great. I can tell you're excited :). When does your big trip begin?"

Yes I'm very excited. The trip doesn't start until next March (at least it's less than a year away now). It can be difficult to concentrate on anything else. "

I'll bet you're going to be close to worthless for the next 11 months :).

VERY NICE canoe BeaV....It is really a purdy boat!
SunCatcher

I like my Monarch well enough, but the boat you now own is really something else. I will own one too one day. You will really know what it means to paddle a Sea Wind after your first bad weather. I am happy for you BeaV. Keep in touch and welcome to the Kruger Team.

Looks GREAT, BeaV!
Now to get it out on a trip.
Enjoy!

butthead

quote butthead: "Looks GREAT, BeaV!
Now to get it out on a trip.
Enjoy!


butthead "

Oh yea, I'm working on a long list of trips for this year to include:

-BWCA in June
-BWCA in September
-Circumnavigate Lake Mille Lacs
-Circumnavigate Leech Lake
-Namikagan River/St Croix River to the Metro
-Multiple trips to Lake Superior
-some faster moving rivers??
-maybe the Everglades this winter

Boonie's right, I'll be close to worthless for the next 11 months!

Got to get her broke in and me toughened up:)

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

BeaV