I am wondering if any of you Wilderness owners can answer a question I have. I picked up a Bell Magic this spring and have been on a couple of week-long trips with it. I really like how it handles, but I cannot get comfortable in it. I've tried 3 different seats at different heights and angles, and no matter the configuration, my hips hurt like hell after about 15-20 minutes of paddling-and this does not happen in my tandem.

This brings me to my question: Do you Wilderness owners experience this? I am thinking of purchasing a Wilderness, but I want to make sure I won't experience the same discomfort as I do in the Magic. I know I need to test paddle one before considering making the purchase, but I thought I'd start asking here. Thanks in advance for any input!

I have a Bell Rockstar and have none of the issues you are mentioning. I only mention this as the Rockstar and Wilderness are very similar canoes. I've used both the contour web seat and the straight cane seat and do prefer the web seat when sitting on the seat directly. Otherwise I use a GCI Sit Backer seat and am very comfortable. I also added a pair of the kayak style adjustable footrests but don't use them as often as I could. Usually I just cross my legs in front of me or have my feet pushing up against a pack.

I haven't had that problem, no. The one gripe I had during a test paddle before I bought mine was that the rear thwart was close enough to the seat that during hard (lean-rocking) paddling I could bump into it, so when I had mine built I asked for that thwart to be put a few inches back from normal. I also got the seat that's ever so slightly curved.

quote Sierra1: "I have a Bell Rockstar and have none of the issues you are mentioning. I only mention this as the Rockstar and Wilderness are very similar canoes. I've used both the contour web seat and the straight cane seat and do prefer the web seat when sitting on the seat directly. Otherwise I use a GCI Sit Backer seat and am very comfortable. I also added a pair of the kayak style adjustable footrests but don't use them as often as I could. Usually I just cross my legs in front of me or have my feet pushing up against a pack."

Thanks. Likewise, most of the time I am sitting cross legged or use the pack as a foot brace. Still really sore after a spell!

quote tonyyarusso: "I haven't had that problem, no. The one gripe I had during a test paddle before I bought mine was that the rear thwart was close enough to the seat that during hard (lean-rocking) paddling I could bump into it, so when I had mine built I asked for that thwart to be put a few inches back from normal. I also got the seat that's ever so slightly curved."

Appreciate the input. I need to find somewhere to test paddle a Wilderness...going to check with Midwest Mountaineering.

quote Frenchy19: "Appreciate the input. I need to find somewhere to test paddle a Wilderness...going to check with Midwest Mountaineering."

Both Midwest Mountaineering and Hoigaard's did demos, but MM's are very infrequent (their next one is August 9th this year) whereas Hoigaard's is more regular (their next one is July 14th).

quote tonyyarusso: "

quote Frenchy19: "Appreciate the input. I need to find somewhere to test paddle a Wilderness...going to check with Midwest Mountaineering."

Both Midwest Mountaineering and Hoigaard's did demos, but MM's are very infrequent (their next one is August 9th this year) whereas Hoigaard's is more regular (their next one is July 14th)."

Thanks! I could rent one for a day @ MM, but it's $45, and that's a bit steep. I'll also be in Ely in early August, so perhaps a test ride in a boat from Piragis. Appreciate the input.

I don't know, Frenchy. I can't wrap my head around a certain hull design causing this problem. Since you tried multiple seats and seat positions in the Magic I don't think it's a problem with the Magic design.

quote mr.barley: "I don't know, Frenchy. I can't wrap my head around a certain hull design causing this problem. Since you tried multiple seats and seat positions in the Magic I don't think it's a problem with the Magic design."

Maybe it's just my aging ass!

Seriously, though, when I paddle my tandem, I can cross my legs and my knees hang below my waist, and I can paddle in this position for a really long time without feeling like I want to stand up. In the Magic my knees are always above my waist, and this puts pressure on my hips. I assume this is because the seat is much higher in the tandem than the solo.

I've played with 2, 3 and 4 inch drops, and there is little, if any, difference between them in terms of comfort.

I think you have your answer and the answer may raise a new issue.

The Magic seat drops in the pic you showed me are very long. My seat drops are one inch at the front edge and two in the back. They are short.

But would you be comfortable in the Magic sitting so high with your knees dropped the way you like?

Maybe not. Maybe its just a bit of more seat time. In order to test this you will have to pack your Magic with some gear or sandbags or something. If you raise your center of gravity an empty boat is going to feel real tippy especially at first.

Though this is not a Magic problem per se, you might have to go to a bigger solo just to feel secure with a higher seat.

I'll bet dollars that you would never be happy in a kayak.. simply because of the leg position. I know I am not. I get achy too and wicked stiff.

@ Frenchy -
Here's a completely different approach to the issue. If the hip pain only happens in the magic and no other canoes then it's likely a seat issue. But, if it occurs at other times it may be something else.

Are you fairly fit? Part of the problem may be an issue with core strength. If you spend a lot of time sitting at work - and not much time exercising - then you may have weakened core muscles in your abs, lower back, glutes, abductors and adductors, which can lead to pain in your hips.
I've had to spend more time doing very simple balance and strength exercises in the past year than I would care to admit, I was getting very sore and tight hips while driving, canoeing, etc. And I thought I was very fit from running, biking, etc. But my body began fighting back after age 50 - so... something to consider.

quote IBFLY: "@ Frenchy -
Here's a completely different approach to the issue. If the hip pain only happens in the magic and no other canoes then it's likely a seat issue. But, if it occurs at other times it may be something else.


Are you fairly fit? Part of the problem may be an issue with core strength. If you spend a lot of time sitting at work - and not much time exercising - then you may have weakened core muscles in your abs, lower back, glutes, abductors and adductors, which can lead to pain in your hips.
I've had to spend more time doing very simple balance and strength exercises in the past year than I would care to admit, I was getting very sore and tight hips while driving, canoeing, etc. And I thought I was very fit from running, biking, etc. But my body began fighting back after age 50 - so... something to consider. "

Very good points to consider. While I do not sit much on my job (middle school teacher), I do not exercise as much as I should either. I dropped about 15 pounds over the winter, but you're probably right about the core strength issue. Perhaps it's time for a pontoon on Mille Lacs...

Hey you with the aging.... I think we still have a royalex wilderness at Spring Creek. Call to be sure... but there's no charge to try it out. Tell em I sent ya... :)

quote nctry: "Hey you with the aging.... I think we still have a royalex wilderness at Spring Creek. Call to be sure... but there's no charge to try it out. Tell em I sent ya... :)"

Thanks, Ben! I may just take you up on that offer as I have plenty of time on my hands. I also want to hear about your upcoming August trip sometime.

I paddle a Magic and could never find a comfortable way to arrange my legs. A foot brace completely solved the problem for me, I feel like I'm locked in with the brace installed, no fishing around for a place to put my feet. I don't know how you'd temporarily install a brace to try it, but as much as I like that boat, I'd hesitate to get rid of it without trying some way to get comfortable in it.

quote fraxinus: "I paddle a Magic and could never find a comfortable way to arrange my legs. A foot brace completely solved the problem for me, I feel like I'm locked in with the brace installed, no fishing around for a place to put my feet. I don't know how you'd temporarily install a brace to try it, but as much as I like that boat, I'd hesitate to get rid of it without trying some way to get comfortable in it. "

Good idea, and I will keep farting around in hopes of finding a solution. If not, I am pretty sure I could find it a good home.

I've noticed that the higher the distance from the seat to the floor of the canoe the more comfortable I am sitting in it or kneeling. My body simply doesn't like being compressed like that for long periods of times. I'm a larger guy, so that may have something to do with it too. I find that kayaks are very uncomfortable for me, and so are low seats in a canoe. Generally, I don't like to sit and paddle but the footbrace in my solo makes paddling while seated much more comfortable, so that may help your situation. Just so you know, I do not own a bell magic, this is just my general thoughts.

I play around with seat heights with my Magic, and I have it all the way up now with a 3/4" drop at the front only. I like just hooking my toes against the front thwart at the gunwales, and that's enough for me to feel connected and 'tight'. I do that regardless of the seat height, and maybe it works for me because I'm lucky enough to have it happen to be the right distance away. I know I'd have to be at my wits end to ever consider giving up on a Magic. Good luck though, on finding a good solution. The best canoe is the one you want to be in.

Foot braces make a world difference if you sit while you paddle. My last Prospectorish boat was a Nova Craft Bob Special and I glued in some foam blocks to rest my feet against (I actually put them in to kneel right on center, but their position was perfect as footrests while sitting in the bow seat).

I finally did see a Wenonah Wilderness in UL/Kev over the weekend, and while it had alot more pronounced tumblehome than the Royalex version the keel looked really hogged. The center was noticeably shallower than the ends, and I had never heard this mentioned about the Wilderness before.

Was that a one-off bad/abused boat?

I am putting a foot brace into the Magic (Actually, North West Canoe is putting it in for me). I am planning a short trip in September and another in October, so I'll see how that works. I am hoping it will alleviate the hip pain.


I can handle discomfort, but when it comes to actual pain, well, I am rather adverse to it!