BWCA Teen refuses to go Boundary Waters Group Forum: Canoeing with kids
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08/03/2013 10:03AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Has anyone here had this problem? Our teen (14) refuses to go on any more BWCA trips. I would consider going without her, but we only so much vacation, and I feel like going without her would mess with our family bonding. But if she's miserable the whole time, that is not good, either. So do we just do other vacations until she either decides to come along, or is old enough to be on her own? Or what? We did not go on any vqction this year, other than my husband taking the kids to our cabin for a week, though this was partly because I have limited vacation this year due to starting a new job.

Where is the line between respecting who are children are and family togetherness?
 
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luft
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08/03/2013 10:45PM  
I haven't had this issue but it seems to me that BWPaddler has had similar morale issues with her older daughter and BWCA trips in the past. I think she let her daughter bring a friend who was really into it and that helped? Hopefully she will see this and be able to weigh in with advice.

I guess if I it were my daughter I would try and compromise with her...

~she has to come on the BWCA trips but she can bring along a friend (if boredom is the issue)

~she has to come on the BWCA trips but you will make sure that the trips aren't too strenuous (if the paddling/portages are the issue)

~she has to come on the BWCA trips but you will take another family trip at a later date to a spot that she does enjoy (a beach vacation?)



 
08/05/2013 04:23PM  
Hey Nola!
As the mother of 5 teens now raised and out of the house- I had everyone of them refuse some vacation at some point. It is part of their need to establish themselves as independent beings. Somewhere in reading about teens I remember a line "A teens job to push the limits, a parents job to keep the limits- it is a recipe for conflict."

I felt very strongly that they needed time with their parents and siblings no matter how much they disagreed. My rule was- there is family time and friend time. When it is family time there is no such thing as opting out. It was a non negotiable thing.

That being said- we have some lovely pictures of very angsty looking teens on vacation. I just ignored their drama- but it wasn't fun sometimes.

Now that my kids are much older- they tell me their best memories are the long car trips, the camping, the crazy family times. Don't let your daughter decide she doesn't need family time anymore- she really needs it more now than ever.
 
08/06/2013 06:33AM  
Thanks for the thoughtful responses, luft and ripple.

Ripple, what is your opinion on making her go to the BW, or choosing a different type of vacation?

Also....nice to hear from you. How are you?
 
08/06/2013 08:55AM  
quote nojobro: "Thanks for the thoughtful responses, luft and ripple.

Ripple, what is your opinion on making her go to the BW, or choosing a different type of vacation?

Also....nice to hear from you. How are you?"

Nice to check in sweet! I am busy as usual- but get to take Ed's grandkids to the BWCA at the end of August!

I think that there isn't anything wrong with having some input from your daughter long before the family vacation- but ultimately you have to establish lines of authority even more now as they try to push them.

You are not their friend anymore, you are not trying to mold the family to her needs and wants the same way you did when she was a baby. This is the part of her life where she learns to live within constraints she isn't fond of sometimes. You know like when you grow up and the world isn't bowing down to your every whim?

It is a very fine balance between giving them some input and having them control the family decision making. Only you know where that line is. I do have to say that the line has to be drawn by you though- with out it she is very similar to the toddler who screams for the candy at the grocery check out line. You give in this time- and every time you plan a vacation she is the one who decides if it will happen.

My youngest claimed to hate being on the camping trips. She tried everything to not be on the trips sometimes. "I am staying at my friends!" "You can't force me to be miserable!" I quietly responded- "When you are the Mom you get to take your family anywhere you want." Foot stomping, door slamming, eyeball rolling, pouting in the car the whole way, snarky little comments through out the whole trip. Sometimes I wondered if it was worth it. She is now 18 and finally admits they were amazing trips that she is grateful for.

Once they become a teen- you have very little influence in their world. Their peers, the media, everything becomes something to model behavior on because that is where they are at developmentally. They are supposed to "try on new hats" to see what they want to become. They are desperately molding themselves and you have so little input as it is - the time together as a family now is what patterns them forever.

 
08/06/2013 12:37PM  
I'm taking notes, in 10 years I'm sure I will be at this same point. When I was 17 I refused to go on the family vacation so my parents cancelled the trip. They said in 4 years they would go without kids (and they did lol). Looking back I was a spoiled brat who should have been grateful for a vacation.
 
paddlefamily
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08/06/2013 10:19PM  
We had some of this happen this year with our two oldest ages 14 and 12. Actually the 14 yr old has given us grief for a few years, but we keep bringing him along with mixed results.

The 12 year old happily went on a Namekagon trip with me in July.
After the fact, I don't know if I will be able to talk her into it again....lol.

All our kids went with on our yearly camping trip along the north shore. They love that trip.

The BW trip however, was a different story. Generally, they come along on all vacations as we feel it's important for our family-grumpiness and all. In this case we compromised as we'd done a few family trips this year. They went to visit grandparents that they hadn't had the opportunity to stay with for a long time. My husband and I got a lovely trip without them for the first time in a year and a half.

The irony is that the morning of the departure for our BW trip our 14 yr old boy decided he wanted to come with us (he doesn't quite get the logistics that go into this sort of trip). We said next time he'd have to let us know sooner. Good grief!

Nola, when you have limited vacation time, the time with your family becomes precious. It's a hard decision and I know what it's like to spend vacation time with a moody teen. However, my hope is that someday they will appreciate what we did together. That we were together.

I do like others suggestions of bringing a friend along. We've done that with our kids on other camping trips, which has made a big difference.



 
08/07/2013 09:11AM  
This is a very good thread. Thanks. I'm sure I'll need to use it at some point. Our and 8 and 6 year old girls scare me sometimes because they start showing teenager signs already. aaaahhhhhhh.

Good Luck Nola and I know you will make the right decision for your family.
 
08/07/2013 10:18AM  
An added wrinkle for us is that she has some issues that come into play that I'm not going to write about on this public board...so I have to take advice for "normal" kids and try to work it as it applies to her special needs. As if having a teen isn't hard enough, haha.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, everyone.

I have a couple ideas for how to make a trip great...one is taking a cousin along (she doesn't have friends who would go along, I don't think...but this cousin would be awesome...she's at their house right now for two weeks) or a certain other canoeing family as a double trip.
 
08/14/2013 06:27AM  
I've heard from oldest two (13, 14) that they don't want to go to BWCA, that they don't like canoeing, they don't like camping, they are not "nature girl", etc.

BUT - I don't believe it. I think those are their statements trying to say that they are "different from" me. There are frequent signs that they DO appreciate nature and enjoy it and SOMETIMES reluctant admittance of same from the teens.

I completely agree that some things are not negotiable. We parents do SO MUCH for our children, that I don't think a BWCA trip in exchange is asking too much. We cannot FORCE teens into a car, but we can certainly make sure that our energy expenditure for them gets limited in such a way that they get the point of the potential consequences... luckily it hasn't come to that for me. I hear crap leading up to the trip, but once out the door things have been good and/or great.

Phrases I use are "Thank you for coming anyway." and "I can understand it's hard to do something you don't enjoy, in fact, there are many things I do with you that are not 'my thing' and I do them because you enjoy them."

I do try to work in things that they look forward to (Chocolate Moose meals, maybe tourist time on either side of trip that I wouldn't normally need to do). So the trip becomes MORE than paddling and camping for them. I might let them pick something like Wolf or Bear center or North Shore favorite stop/overlook/hotel.

I try to foster any gear-related excitement I see. New pieces of gear or clothing at any inkling they are excited about it. Let son bring heavy flashlight for example, and two multi-tools that repeated tools I already carry. But these were "his"...

I did start adding friends to the mix and I must say that is brilliant and I've had much success with it - so much that the friends now BEG me to take them along, lol. 1) Friends enchantment with the trip is good for my kids to see. 2) Built in social opportunities which are hard to squeeze into our real life. 3) Might allow for more kid independence DURING trip. 4) for me, individual friends have been slightly more successful than whole family friends, but that has as much to do with adult dynamics as children, lol.

This past trip (just back) I had my 13 & 14 yo kids, and my eldest child's birth brother (age 11 and his first trip and first time away from his mom).

- I took one boat for the 4 of us, lest weather conditions make for a nasty day battling waves with no adult in a boat. PERFECT decision.

- I used a tow service to get up Moose Lake, a novelty intended to entice children to experience something new for us.

- I planned a route (that copied yours Nola!) that included stepping on Canada and the chance to see border markers, etc.

- on the way in, I never made them paddle - simply pretended I was tripping with the world's longest solo canoe (Quetico 18.5). They giggled and laughed and pointed at loons and teased each other and made statements that confirmed their love of the outdoors and which I will cherish forever. Actually, the newbie paddled almost the entire time and I had to TELL him to take a break (but his stroke was virtually ineffective, lol.)

- We lined/walked one portage just for the adventure of it. Getting wet and taking a reasonable risk made another memory for the child that wanted to do it (the other two walked the portage and had some chillaxing time).

- We basecamped, and even skipped an all day trip to a waterfall I would have liked to see, but which would have felt rushed and eliminated some 'down time' in camp.

- I let kids do their own thing in camp, which meant 14yo spent an entire beautiful day in the tent with a book. She was in heaven, and that's what I wanted. Often the three of them were in the tent and I was free to relax in my hammock or swim. The giggles I heard throughout the day were worth it.

- When it came time for a spontaneous evening paddle/hike/meal on top of Thunder Point, I had three willing and able and EAGER kids. Not one complaint about the paddle, or the hike, or the bugs, or paddling home in the PITCH dark afterwards. A memory they will all talk about for years I am sure.

- On the way out, I had three motivated paddlers eager to get to Chocolate Moose for dinner. We cut our travel time significantly even as we paddled against the wind. They were able to show off their portaging skills and get complimented by the crowds passing us in the opposite direction - that had to feel good for them.

- I shortened the paddling part of the trip, and added other items to the vacation plan. We paddled for 4 days, and then saw Ely (Molter museum, independent kid shopping), Rainy Lake, Ft. Frances, Atikokan/Souris River/Quetico HQ, Kakabeka Falls, Grand Portage, Gunflint Trail (Honeymoon Bluff, Kimball Lake, Chik Wauk museum), Palisade Head, Split Rock Lighthouse, Gooseberry Falls, Lester River beach, Duluth lift bridge, etc. That is a compromise for ME - because I have to squeeze in so much with so little vacation time. There are other sights I want kids to see before they leave home, so we do a little BW and a little road trippin'. This time, the Canada crossing was a huge hit with the kids - their first "international" trip and new money!

I would insist that she go Nojobro. BUT, I wouldn't make it an issue until the next trip is planned. Too much time between trips to make it into a power struggle. Just plan your strategy in your head and don't even discuss it until closer to departure. Our lives with special needs kiddos revolve so much around them. This is something we do for ourselves as well as our kids and it's OK to make them come just for that reason alone. So far, I have never regretted making kids come. They don't really want to be miserable for a week, and in my experience they have never ruined a trip yet. Good luck!

 
salukiguy
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08/14/2013 12:33PM  
Just got back with my kids. 13 yo and 5 yo. They knew we were going to Mall of America on the way back home which turned out to be quite an enticement. If all else fails pick a different type of trip. Last year we went to Grand Tetons and Yellowstone. Quite the adventure while not having to rough it too much.
 
brantlars
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02/04/2014 02:03PM  
I totally agree with making them go on the family BWCA trip. But you have to make it fun for them. Let them steer the canoe, If they are old enough let them carry it on a short portage,my son was so proud the first time he did this( I don't have a lite canoe). When they are out swimming let them swamp the canoe and teach them to get back in. Let them take a friend or plan a trip with another family that has kids there age. As a kid I can never remember being bored in th BWCA, it was always the one trip we took that I looked forward to even if I was not getting along with my dad
 
CrookedPaddler1
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02/04/2014 02:27PM  
I feel for you. I love my trips into the BWCA and what makes many of them special is time spent with the family.

What I have learned is that I do a couple of trips with my friends, where we push hard and fish hard. But when my family comes along, it is a much more relaxed trip. I have one daughter that fishes more than I even want to, and one that wants to find a sunny spot on the rock and read a book. But the key to this is listening to the kids, and trying to fit in some of what they want.

I am not saying that the day won't come when they don't want to go, but right now I have a 14 and 12 year old that are both asking when next summers trip is and if they can bring 1 or 2 friends.
 
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