Last week during my days off I decided to get out trout fishing for the first time this winter. It was cold out but I was itching to jig for some trout even though I am usually a fair weather ice angler. The planed destination involved a 15 mile snowmobile ride on the Canadian side of some border lakes and then a short hike on snowshoes to my destination. About half way into my snowmobile ride I came to an area with some current where the ice is typically not very safe. It is a spot that never concerns me on my snowmobile as I normally just quickly pass through. As I approached the area I began to encounter a lot of slush when I realized that up ahead it was all open water. My best option was to turn around as I have always told myself I will never skip across open water when I am by myself unless it is my only option. As I was finishing my sharp u-turn my sled hit a spot of bare ice and I lost control of the machine. My snowmobile rolled on its side throwing me off when I suddenly realized that I was in the water.

I remember telling myself 3 times that I was going to die. I intended to survive the situation but understood being soaking wet 7 miles from my car when it was 5 degrees above zero out was a recipe for hypothermia. I managed to get back on the ice quickly and was shocked to see my snowmobile had not gone through the ice. I rolled my snowmobile back on its track where it sat on very thin ice about 5 feet from the big hole that I had just climbed out of. Do you believe in guardian angels?

The first thing I tried to do was start my snowmobile but it would not fire. I then put on what dry clothes I had in my pack and knew it was decision time. I could either try and get my sled going, or walk through the slush to shore and build a big fire and try to get warm and dry. I gave my snowmobile a quick once over and it looked fine. Assuming that it was just flooded I held the throttle all the way down and tried a bit more to start it but no luck. I looked the machine over again and decided I would pull on it 10 more times before I changed spark plugs. Thankfully the trusty sled started and got me back to my car where I had a full change of dry cloths.

Not sure when I will go ice fishing again but I don’t care much for winter at the moment. Anybody know of a job someplace warm for a heavy equipment operator?

Shaken...not stirred.
A harrowing experience no doubt, but you will be wiser for it for what does not kill us makes us stronger...or at least smarter.
I am glad you are OK and I hope that soon you will find the peace to realize that all your years of experience and planning came through when you needed it most.
I will tip my cap and a glass of scotch to you tonight.

Geez, harrowing tale. Glad you made it through alright.

um, Kevin, that is just nuts! so glad you are okay.

Glad to hear you are all right.

You should post this on the general form so every one can read and learn.

That was a close one. Glad you can tell us about your experience.

There are times in our lives when we all find out that there is somebody watching out for us. Glad you are okay.....make sure to pack a full change of clothes next trip.........but get back in the saddle cowboy.

Glad your O'kay and many ways lucky.

Wow. Glad your fine and I agree that "someOne was watching out" for you. Glad you could share it firsthand.....

You did a lot of things right. Seems the first one was having ability to make a fire.

Walleye Hunter,just wondering was the open water by a narrows with more current or like a hole out on the main lake where pressure form snow that produced a upwelling and a substantial hole?

Glad you will be able to fish another day,also brings in mine you should have some survival items along,maybe even dry clothes in a waterproof bag?

Thanks for sharing your story and glad to hear you survived unharmed.

This goes to show that whatever you have on is your survival kit. Your snowmobile could have sunk and taken whatever kit or spare clothes with it. I'm sure having a buddy along on a separate sled is the answer but we all know that isn't how the real world works.

It always amazes me what people do on snow mobiles. Why would anyone travel on ice where there is open water? I'll never know, because I would never do it, however, there are many that do, and they end up dead.


I'm certainly glad that it turned out well, but it just as easily could have been the other way.

quote PINETREE: "Walleye Hunter,just wondering was the open water by a narrows with more current or like a hole out on the main lake where pressure form snow that produced a upwelling and a substantial hole?


Glad you will be able to fish another day,also brings in mine you should have some survival items along,maybe even dry clothes in a waterproof bag?"

It was by a little river mouth.

Thanks,just curious of the different scenarios that can arise.

quote SevenofNine: "Thanks for sharing your story and glad to hear you survived unharmed.


This goes to show that whatever you have on is your survival kit. Your snowmobile could have sunk and taken whatever kit or spare clothes with it. I'm sure having a buddy along on a separate sled is the answer but we all know that isn't how the real world works."

It IS how my real world works. Without mincing words, I will say that this kind of experience is ridiculous on many levels, unless the OP has a death wish.

Yes, I've done plenty of stupid things, but not for the past 20 or 25 years. I hope the OP outgrows this bad-judgment phase and graduates to cognitive and emotional adulthood.

Harsh, I know. Too bad. I doubt the OP lives in complete isolation (although I could be wrong). He should think next time about how his loss would affect those around him.

Thank the Lord you're alive. Learn from your near-death experience.

Having your wits about you, is your greatest asset. Well done, for a poor situation.

LL

Glad things worked out the way they did. Seems you were prepared for the situation. Good job....well done.

IF you ever see slush that is not a good thing for ice strength. It means the ice is getting bad. So avoid it. I've been teaching Ice Rescue to firefighters and other first responders for 9 years now and part of the class deals with ice. The types, thicknesses, factors that can affect the strength of the ice and hazards.

quote Moss Tent: "

quote SevenofNine: "Thanks for sharing your story and glad to hear you survived unharmed.



This goes to show that whatever you have on is your survival kit. Your snowmobile could have sunk and taken whatever kit or spare clothes with it. I'm sure having a buddy along on a separate sled is the answer but we all know that isn't how the real world works."

It IS how my real world works. Without mincing words, I will say that this kind of experience is ridiculous on many levels, unless the OP has a death wish.


Yes, I've done plenty of stupid things, but not for the past 20 or 25 years. I hope the OP outgrows this bad-judgment phase and graduates to cognitive and emotional adulthood.


Harsh, I know. Too bad. I doubt the OP lives in complete isolation (although I could be wrong). He should think next time about how his loss would affect those around him."

Ya, that is harsh. How is this a bad-judgment and an example of cognitive and emotional deficiency? From what I understand of his tale, he saw open water, made the decision to turn around, and in the process of turning around, had an accident. He also managed to extract himself from the situation and tell us about it. Please further clarify your experiences regarding how your real world works.

quote Minnesotian: "

quote Moss Tent: "

quote SevenofNine: "Thanks for sharing your story and glad to hear you survived unharmed.



This goes to show that whatever you have on is your survival kit. Your snowmobile could have sunk and taken whatever kit or spare clothes with it. I'm sure having a buddy along on a separate sled is the answer but we all know that isn't how the real world works."

It IS how my real world works. Without mincing words, I will say that this kind of experience is ridiculous on many levels, unless the OP has a death wish.



Yes, I've done plenty of stupid things, but not for the past 20 or 25 years. I hope the OP outgrows this bad-judgment phase and graduates to cognitive and emotional adulthood.



Harsh, I know. Too bad. I doubt the OP lives in complete isolation (although I could be wrong). He should think next time about how his loss would affect those around him."

Ya, that is harsh. How is this a bad-judgment and an example of cognitive and emotional deficiency? From what I understand of his tale, he saw open water, made the decision to turn around, and in the process of turning around, had an accident. He also managed to extract himself from the situation and tell us about it. Please further clarify your experiences regarding how your real world works. "

I agree.. please enlighten us on your experiences that make you beat your chest and belittle others in a public forum.

All I can say is sometimes the comments people make here really amaze me. Walleye Hunter glad to hear your safe and unharmed. Chalk it up to another life lesson.

WOW. So glad all worked out for the best. You will have a good story to tell now. Good lesson were learned here about a spare set of clothes with you. I have hit slush before but never broke through like you did. I was always afraid of breaking through and I would carry a set of ice picks just in case. Again wow and thanks for sharing your story with us.

quote KT: "All I can say is sometimes the comments people make here really amaze me. Walleye Hunter glad to hear your safe and unharmed. Chalk it up to another life lesson. "

+1

quote KT: "All I can say is sometimes the comments people make here really amaze me. Walleye Hunter glad to hear your safe and unharmed. Chalk it up to another life lesson. "

+2

Needlessly going into an inherently dangerous situation without support.

Stupid.

Yes, snowmobiling on a frozen lake is an inherently dangerous activity, no matter how cold or how thick the ice might be in general.

"Good job". Why? Because he got lucky that his machine didn't go under? Because he got lucky that it started? Because he got lucky that he didn't knock his head hard enough to become disoriented?

There is nothing about this that was a "good job"--it was somebody who made one very bad decision, put himself into a bad situation, and got lucky enough that he came away healthy.

Yes, he was able to extricate himself from the water, and maybe he was wearing a helmet--but that is totally insufficient preparation in the absence of luck--luck that his machine didn't go under, luck that it didn't hit him in the head as it rolled, luck that he didn't break an arm, luck that his machine landed in an accessible place, luck that it started, luck that the weather didn't close in, etc., etc., etc.

I've seen it before, in the mountains out west. On SAR I have also seen the effect that bad news has on families and friends. I have also seen how avoidable much of it is. Stupid. Really, really lucky--but stupid.

Like I said, I have made bad decisions too, especially when younger--and absolutely recognize that I am only still here by the grace of god. If he's younger, he has some excuse, and I gave him latitude for that; but if he's older, then criticism is the order of the day, unless he lives a life in which nobody really cares about, or depends on, him--and I made allowance for that, too.

I make no apologies for the apparent harshness of this criticism. With the caveats and allowances I have included, I think it entirely reasonable, and warranted.

Beating my chest? Absolutely not.

Belittling the OP? No, wrong word.

Criticizing or rebuking the OP? Absolutely.

He's not heroic. Just lucky.

Luck didn't have much of a part...nor do I believe I will hang my hat on "someone watching over" him. What do you say to the boy and girl in the Chicago river? Someone didn't think they were worth watching over? No I think my first comment was spot on...(First response in the tread.)
I also don't see where ANYONE said heroic...but I could have missed it.
I for one won't be ordering a bubble wrap suit and hiding in my basement, but I do think the OP learned a bit about ice safety.
He also had the skills and wits to overcome the situation and did. If the sled would not have started, he had a plan. It did and he got out.
Berating him for going through the ice and not thinking about himself or others is a bit out of line...doing it twice IS pounding your chest...adding the part about SAR IS pounding your chest...
He learned a good life lesson...leave it at that.

It's difficult to remain civil in view of comments like yours.

Even after the brief suggestions I just made, you can honestly say that you believe luck had nothing to do with the outcome? Even after the OP said that he was surprised that his sled hadn't gone under? Right.

Rebuking him, with caveats, is not "out of line" at all, unless you believe that qualified and reasoned criticism of a volunteered experience is unacceptable.

I'm curious if the OP understands that he got lucky. I also want him to understand that in my life, I too have done the types of things that he has described, and I understand that I got lucky.

doughboy--

"what does not kill us makes us stronger...or at least smarter"

I have never entirely believed in that tired old cliche. It depends entirely on the person.

If true in this case, any criticism he receives is part of his entire experience of this event, and will hopefully contribute to making him smarter.

doughboy--

"what does not kill us makes us stronger...or at least smarter"

Like the guy with 10 DUI's.

quote Moss Tent: "It's difficult to remain civil in view of comments like yours."

Thank you for remaining so...
I have my opinion and you have yours... I can LIVE with that.

I'm curious, Moss Tent, about what outdoor activities would NOT be stupid given your definition of "needlessly going into an inherently dangerous situation without support."

Is solo canoe tripping stupid, then? Hiking alone? Winter camping? Running some rapids in a canoe?

Danger seems to be part and parcel of wilderness activities. Of course there are different levels of danger and different levels of "support." Sure, the OP got lucky...but I can't see how all the wisdom and experience and preparation in the world are going to remove luck from the equation.

Everybody gets lucky sometimes, and everybody gets unlucky sometimes.

"Stupid" is relative to both a person's life situation, and to the activity itself, and to how it is managed. I took these things into account in my criticism.

Doing something with another party is one form of management. If you do something with an idiot, you can be worse off than if you solo. If you do something with somebody otherwise incompetent, they can offer some assistance even only if minimal, and if the venture is managed properly.

Soloing any of those activities you mentioned can be needlessly risky, or not--it all depends. I would never recommend that any of them be solo'ed.

Danger is always present, and it's not always a matter of eliminating it--for instance, I never suggested that the OP should never have gone snowmobiling on a frozen lake in the north country. The question is which dangers you are aware of and which you are unaware of, your level of experience with the dangers, and how you plan for failure to meet the challenges of those dangers.

The thing about this situation is that there are uncontrollable unknowns. Unlike in something else that is inherently very dangerous--say like gymnastics or olympic weightlifting, in the wilderness there are unknowns that are not within the direct control of the participant. There are no surprises about the weightlifting platform, the 10m diving platform, or the rings.

When there are uncontrollable unknowns, you must be prepared for failure--that is, you must expect that failure will happen, you must have a general idea of exactly how you will fail and what it will mean, and you must have a plan to address that failure.

Going without a partner in a situation like this, and not developing and sticking to a plan that minimizes the possibility of encountering the same dangers at the same time, evidences a lack of understanding of the potential mechanism, nature, and severity of the failure.

I would never climb with somebody like this. I would never have flown with somebody like this. My goal in having great experiences is to live through them, intact. Yes, shxt happens. Yes, I have gotten injured. Yes, I have had close calls due to stupidity.

And yes, I have had people rip me a new one for having been stupid. And I accepted the criticism, learned, and grew early, and have since been fortunate to have had a good life, which hasn't included any solo wilderness activities on my part.

Yes, I am extreme, and I know that--I have all sorts of wilderness rescue, first aid and emergency expertise, and my wife happens to have been a qualified saltwater lifeguard and guide with her swift water rescue cert...and there are still times when I smell that something is wrong, and call something off--just last year in fact, in Chamonix.

Nothing is perfect, risk/reward is always something to be considered, and triumph over adversity is a laudable goal. Like I said, even the OP's actions may have been justifiable, depending on his life situation--heck, maybe he's not a foolhardy 20-year-old, maybe he's 90 and has had a good life, I have no idea.

If he is anything like a "normal" person, with social obligations, or friends and family that he hopes to live to enjoy and support, and who want him to live so that they can enjoy his company, he has absolutely just done something stupid. In my opinion.

I hope that he has gotten a healthy dose of fear from the experience.

Quit beating around the bush and say how ya really feel. I am sure the OP learned something from it. Don't scold him for bad luck, or call him stupid. That's just mean or else you wanna toot your own horn..beep.beep

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”--Hunter S. Thompson



Thanks for sharing WalleyeHunter. It takes guts to tell a tale that was basically your own fault. This wouldn't have happened if you would have stayed home watchin' the boob tube.

Now.....get back out there!!

I applaud you WalleyeHunter for not living in a protective bubble. I believe human beings are capable of extraordinary physical challenges that most people never come close to attempting. Once society sinks it's hypodermic fangs into us we shiver even at the thought of stepping on to an un-salted sidewalk in winter.

I have been asked to monitor this post and I will.

Some valid points have been made in a not so tactful manner.

Tact and respect will be involved or I will pull the posts and take additional action if the situation warrants (deleting you account or blocking your ISP Address if not a member).

You guys are better than this... don't make me play Cop.

I respectfully say "glad your ok Wally hunter". I find this thread to be an opportunity to add and make sure of not tripping with a ohh so perfect person who has apparently never made a mistake. Wonder if that is due to be lucky or never taking a risk?

First of all walleye-hunter isn't stupid, ignorant, irresponsible or a risk taker. He saw a dangerous situation ahead and tried to turn around to avoid it. As stated his turn didn't go as planned and he ended up in trouble. Could he have done things differently - sure he could have, but he didn't. He WAS planning ahead, he had dry clothes in his pack. He could have easily started a fire (he had gas in his machine to help out if needed) so as long he was thinking coherently he was okay, just cold as h3ll. We have all made mistakes. I fell through the ice when I was in 3rd grade. I was wearing a snowsuit and the water was 8' deep. I remember hitting the bottom and swimming back to the top luckily finding the same hole that I fell through. I had to walk about a 1/4 mile home in freezing cold temps wearing a soaking wet snowsuit that now weighed almost as much as I did because the zipper was stuck and I couldn't get it off.

Instead of analyzing what he did wrong, we should all be glad that he survived and is okay. We can all learn from this. If you are going across any body of supposedly frozen water on a snow machine, ski's, snow shoes or even on foot be prepared! 1)if you see open water get off and drag your sled around instead of trying to power it around, 2) if you encounter slush - stop immediately and investigate why, 3) make sure you have a ditch pack with dry clothes, a fire starter, and a way to signal or call for help. Keep all of this in something waterproof that floats and not tucked inside a compartment of your snow machine in the event that it sinks.

Walleye-Hunter - I'm glad it turned out the way that it did and that you are safe. Thanks for the lesson/reminder that we all need to plan ahead. Some of you posters need to ease up a bit and cut a guy some slack.

Someone brought up the importance of having ice picks on you. The "SAR" guys in the gumbi suits have em and use em. And they work well as long as they aren't in your pocket.

Here is a video from MN DNR on self rescue. Sorry, I can't link direct due to iPad issues.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4KDqEJlwclg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D4KDqEJlwclg

Ditch kits should NOT be on your sled, or your snowmobile.

And I'm surprised anyone fell for the troll...

Not really a Troll...he posts here often under that "name"...just not registered.
I think he has some good points, just doesn't need to insult the intelligence of the OP like that...and especially not repeatedly.

"Instead of analyzing what he did wrong, we should all be glad that he survived and is okay. We can all learn from this."

Respectfully, you cannot learn from this without analyzing what he did, right or wrong.

Make no mistake, I am incredibly glad that the OP came through well, for all the reasons that I mentioned.

My intention was not to troll, to be insulting, or to be abusive. While I may or may not have exhibited a lack of tact, I did not sense, and still do not believe, that "tact" is what is called for in this situation.

I don't know the OP, but I assume he is not particularly sensitive or vulnerable, especially considering the fact that he posted of his own volition. Also, I suspect from the tone of his post that he drew more from his experience than have some commenters on this thread.

As such, my comments were not directed especially toward him individually, but to the responses posted by other commenters.

The "bubble living" issue is a red herring, and no attention should be paid to it. Once again, I have NEVER suggested that he NOT go snowmobiling and fishing on a frozen lake in the north country. Never. Consider the fact that I post here, and that I like the board, and the BWCA/Q, and outdoor activities in general. I do not come here to in any way diminish the experience or reverence of the outdoors, and I do not believe that my contributions to this thread have done so.

I would like to hear the OP's further impressions of, and thoughts about, his experience, including the reactions of those closest to him. I will not post on this thread any longer, regardless if he writes or not, and regardless of what it is that he writes, because by now everybody knows what I think.

Wow this took a funny turn!

quote Moss Tent: ""I would like to hear the OP's further impressions of,"

Moss Tent- I think I understand what you are trying to say but find your accusations, assumptions, and analogies to be a bit asinine. I'm just a guy that likes to fish, not any sort of daredevil with a death wish. Having been a soldier, and now a heavy equipment operator at a mine, I am used to moments on the job that cause me to pucker up on occasion. Therefore, I am very accustomed to looking out for myself and others. I am usually very prepared and when I go fishing on my snowmobile by myself I always have some tools and parts, along with some snowshoes just in case.

I enjoy snowmobiling and am a bit of a sled neck in the winter. I realize that it can be dangerous, but so is downhill skiing and mushing. Snowmobiles are engineered to be ridden aggressively and in many situations you have to drive aggressively unless you enjoy being stuck. The folks that post on this website enjoy getting outside and doing stuff, often by themselves. I posted this just to remind us that bad situations can arise quickly while enjoying the great outdoors.

As far as wishing that I will get a healthy does of fear from this I assure you it ain't going to happen. I am not afraid of life. I will continue to fish, hunt, camp, snowmobile, or help out a stranger. If I ever see you stranded along the Gunflint trail I will stop and help you out without thinking about the worst that could happen. I will not judge you for being unprepared and not having a spare water pump, or spare whatever, in your trunk.

+1 nice reply walleye hunter

Game, Set and Match

Interesting thread...

quote motox380: "+1 nice reply walleye hunter"

++++++2

quote walllee: "

quote motox380: "+1 nice reply walleye hunter"

++++++2"

+3

+4.

quote bojibob: "Game, Set and Match


Interesting thread... "

Response to moderator, in view of the fact that he has commented:


Bojibob, this was not a "contest". My comments were a commentary upon, and criticism of, the psychology of the replying commenters--and as it turns out, of the OP's psychology as well.

That commentary and criticism is still valid, and is only strongly reinforced by the further evidence of the OP's psychology, as given by him in his last post, and of the respondents' psychologies, as given by them in their subsequent "+" posts.

I disapproved of the cavalier attitudes taken toward his related experience, because I found those attitudes to be founded upon traits of character such as immaturity, arrogance, impetuousness, ignorance, etc.--traits that we all exhibit to varying degrees at times, but traits that I do not generally find praiseworthy.

To the extent that that is true--and neither the respondents nor the OP have given me any reason to believe it false--I still disapprove, and strongly.

That the OP and supporting respondents on a board such as this should express such attitudes is not surprising, although it is disappointing. The OP's last comment, and the responses thereto, make me doubt that those people understand either the actual issues raised, or the subsequent discussion thereof.

My thanks to you for running a good board, hopefully this thread will remain unmodified. I think that even if this comment is scrubbed, the thread speaks for itself to those with good reading comprehension, who are willing to devote the time and effort to actually thinking about the issues presented.

DFTT

Life is full of choices. Good ones, bad ones, life threatening ones, all kinds of choices...everyday. In the morning, you decide, do I get up or do I stay in bed. If I were to look at my life through the eyes of those who over-analyze things, I would drive myself crazy and would become paralyzed with fear of the unknown. I shouldn't drive to work today because I could get in an accident. I shouldn't eat lunch cuz the food might be contaminated and make me ill. I shouldn't take a shower cuz I may slip and fall and hit my head.

I saw walleye hunter making a decision that he's probably made several times before, to go on an excursion to a place he's familiar with. Along the way, he had the opportunity to make several choices and ultimately made the right one, to turn around and avoid the open water and further slush. He had an accident and made the choices necessary to better his situation and shared his story with us. Why? Probably so we could share in his pain, learn from the experience, and show us how unpredictable life can be.

Moss Tent is entitled to his/her opinions and ideas, most of which I don't agree with. At the end of the day, I choose to be more like walleye hunter than moss tent because I'm not going to be afraid to live. You prepare the best you know how and you learn to adapt.

Life is full of choices...choose wisely.

@ moss tent

My comment was incorrectly taken. "Game, Set, Match" was my way of saying Good this discussion has run its course! There was an OP, a counter, and a counter-counter....anything beyond that is dribble.

I'm not here to keep score. I'm just here to keep it civil and encourage mutual respect.

Many times I have to bite my tongue and refrain from blasting font in caps at people for ideas I think are from somewhere south of Mars...but I'm not a censor...

I am a Moderator.

Geez, at my advanced age I hate to have to learn something new every day, but you guys just keep introducing new stuff to me all the time. Had to research what DFTT meant......Of course earlier in this thread I had to research what a Troll was.......and earlier then that I had to research what an OP was.

Nap time.

I thought the thread went cold! Nope, one of those little embers in the ashes that when exposed flares up a bit.

I use to do a lot of river snowmobiling when I was trapping one really needs to pay attention. Lost a high school friend last winter to thin ice. He had Been running the same lake for years.

Stuff happens just be careful and be prepared.

If one stopped doing what one likes and loves to do because it might be dangerous one would do nothing.

So maybe we can talk about Bigfoot on this thread without it getting pulled??? :O)

quote WhiteWolf: "So maybe we can talk about Bigfoot on this thread without it getting pulled??? :O)"

You mean Sasquatch don't you?

I say its almasti!

quote Doughboy12: "

quote WhiteWolf: "So maybe we can talk about Bigfoot on this thread without it getting pulled??? :O)"

You mean Sasquatch don't you? "

No abdominal snowman.

quote PINETREE: "

quote Doughboy12: "

quote WhiteWolf: "So maybe we can talk about Bigfoot on this thread without it getting pulled??? :O)"

You mean Sasquatch don't you? "

No abdominal snowman."

Yeti...

Now back to the original message?

quote PINETREE: "Now back to the original message?"

Not on your life...that conversation is dead...as a door nail.
Frozen solid, cut off, locked up, and off limits.

They may have the ability to maybe bring the Wooley Mammoth back now so anything is possible.