So I'm thinking about doing a big loop in WCPP, and I'm wondering what the northern part of the park is like. Judging from trip reports and photos posted on Google Earth, not many people go up there.

The reason I ask is that my wife and I are thinking about a long trip next summer, perhaps as much as a month. We need some space to stretch out our legs so to speak...we like to travel. So we are looking at options, one of them being Woodland Caribou. We've actually been there three times, but each time to Leano (as far west as Beamish lake, and then south from there), so we'd like to avoid the south east corner. One possibility I'm thinking about is entering somewhere near Red Lake, heading north to Bigshell, west picking up the Bloodvein river at Larus Lake, going to the Manitoba border, dropping south to the Gammon River, then back to Red Lake.

But I'm wondering what the Northern half is like? What's the terrain like? Vegetation? I love the Canadian Shield with the Jackpine and Spruce and reindeer moss: but somewhere long ago I remember reading about aspen parkland up there? I'm guessing not many canoeists, though it looks like the big lakes have fishing camps which isn't necessarily a deal killer to me.

Its a good problem to have. My wife would really prefer to go somewhere with somewhat established routes, and we'd also like to keep costs down so we don't want to fly. We are also thinking about Wabikimi but that's another post.

Thanks!

Brian

quote marsonite: "So I'm thinking about doing a big loop in WCPP, and I'm wondering what the northern part of the park is like. Judging from trip reports and photos posted on Google Earth, not many people go up there.

The reason I ask is that my wife and I are thinking about a long trip next summer, perhaps as much as a month. We need some space to stretch out our legs so to speak...we like to travel. So we are looking at options, one of them being Woodland Caribou. We've actually been there three times, but each time to Leano (as far west as Beamish lake, and then south from there), so we'd like to avoid the south east corner. One possibility I'm thinking about is entering somewhere near Red Lake, heading north to Bigshell, west picking up the Bloodvein river at Larus Lake, going to the Manitoba border, dropping south to the Gammon River, then back to Red Lake.

But I'm wondering what the Northern half is like? What's the terrain like? Vegetation? I love the Canadian Shield with the Jackpine and Spruce and reindeer moss: but somewhere long ago I remember reading about aspen parkland up there? I'm guessing not many canoeists, though it looks like the big lakes have fishing camps which isn't necessarily a deal killer to me.

Its a good problem to have. My wife would really prefer to go somewhere with somewhat established routes, and we'd also like to keep costs down so we don't want to fly. We are also thinking about Wabikimi but that's another post.

Thanks!

Brian"

I've only done the Gammon but my partners have done only the north and love the Bloodvein and associated lakes. Others will chime in with more expert advice but I'm envious!

We met a couple last weeks who did 14 days...Entry at Lund then paddled up thru Artery, stepped into Manitoba on their way south along the border and then back east along the Gammon system. They came out with us thru Optic to Douglas. Basically, they circumnavigated the north end of the park.
Harlan at RLO can fill in the details of their route. The couple was Bob and Ellen from Maryland. They own a cabin by Soiux Narrows, near Lake of the Woods. We never got their last name.

WCPP 2013

Here is a photo album link from my 2013 trip on that portion of the Bloodvein River from Artery Lake to the point where Larus Lake dumps into the river. (The next to last pic is a route map.) Unfortunately, the pic's are not listed chronologically since they are ordered by title.

Our original plan was to make the run to Bigshell Lake, but alas the snowdown event from the early snowfall the previous fall resulted in the portages being completely clogged by deadfall (to a height of at least chest deep). Those portages have since been cleared. So what was originally slated to be a travel/layover trip turned in to more of a base-camp trip. The good news in this is that the fishing was OUTSTANDING. Unfortunately, we were pretty much stuck on water where motor boat traffic (from Sabourin Lodge) was present (mostly early and late in the day).

If I can answer any questions about that stretch of the Bloodvein, let me know.

dd

quote dentondoc: "
Unfortunately, we were pretty much stuck on water where motor boat traffic (from Sabourin Lodge) was present (mostly early and late in the day).
dd"

Is the motor traffic any worse than on the Gammon river system (Telescope, Glenn, Hansen)? That's where I was a couple years ago and while it would have been nicer if they hadn't been around it really wasn't a bother. Just a couple boats per lake and for the most part they're just sitting there fishing. Just wondered if it was the same farther north.

Alan

quote Alan Gage: "

quote dentondoc: "
Unfortunately, we were pretty much stuck on water where motor boat traffic (from Sabourin Lodge) was present (mostly early and late in the day).
dd"

Is the motor traffic any worse than on the Gammon river system (Telescope, Glenn, Hansen)? That's where I was a couple years ago and while it would have been nicer if they hadn't been around it really wasn't a bother. Just a couple boats per lake and for the most part they're just sitting there fishing. Just wondered if it was the same farther north.

Alan"

On another trip (2010), I did that chain of lakes (Hansen, Glenn, Telescope, Optic). I only saw a single motor boat on Hansen (a couple of the lodge owners) and Optic (father & son). However, I did have a float plane overfly me on Telescope to check out the cabin and boats there.

On Barclay or Mary's lake (2013) I'd see multiple boats per day. So based on my limited experience, I'd say the motor traffic is heavier along that section of the Bloodvein. I even saw a couple of motor boats on Artery (go figure)!

Other places where I've encountered motor traffic are the Donald/Carroll area (2011) and Kilburn Lake (2009), since its connected to Sylvia. I didn't see any on Haggart and Bulging lakes in 2011, but entering via Beresford Lake to the Garner Lake EP, I saw several going in, but none coming out.

dd

quote dentondoc: " WCPP 2013

Here is a photo album link from my 2013 trip on that portion of the Bloodvein River from Artery Lake to the point where Larus Lake dumps into the river. (The next to last pic is a route map.) Unfortunately, the pic's are not listed chronologically since they are ordered by title.

Our original plan was to make the run to Bigshell Lake, but alas the snowdown event from the early snowfall the previous fall resulted in the portages being completely clogged by deadfall (to a height of at least chest deep). Those portages have since been cleared. So what was originally slated to be a travel/layover trip turned in to more of a base-camp trip. The good news in this is that the fishing was OUTSTANDING. Unfortunately, we were pretty much stuck on water where motor boat traffic (from Sabourin Lodge) was present (mostly early and late in the day).


If I can answer any questions about that stretch of the Bloodvein, let me know.

dd"

Hey thanks. I'd like to see your pics, but for some reason the link isn't working.

quote marsonite: "

quote dentondoc: " WCPP 2013


Here is a photo album link from my 2013 trip on that portion of the Bloodvein River from Artery Lake to the point where Larus Lake dumps into the river. (The next to last pic is a route map.) Unfortunately, the pic's are not listed chronologically since they are ordered by title.


Our original plan was to make the run to Bigshell Lake, but alas the snowdown event from the early snowfall the previous fall resulted in the portages being completely clogged by deadfall (to a height of at least chest deep). Those portages have since been cleared. So what was originally slated to be a travel/layover trip turned in to more of a base-camp trip. The good news in this is that the fishing was OUTSTANDING. Unfortunately, we were pretty much stuck on water where motor boat traffic (from Sabourin Lodge) was present (mostly early and late in the day).



If I can answer any questions about that stretch of the Bloodvein, let me know.


dd"

Hey thanks. I'd like to see your pics, but for some reason the link isn't working.

"

might try copy/paste of the address (below) to your browser url/address line

http://www.bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=photos.view&catid=3507&journalname=Basecamping%20Adventures%20in%20WCPP%202013

(I re-check the link and it seems fine and I asked someone else to launch the address and it opened for them. Let me know if you continue to have an issue.)

dd

I have spent 2 trips to the North End of the park, Artery East up the Bloodvein, then down to Royd and over to Donald. The other one was Olive to Lund. I flew in and Paddled out on the last one. The first one I flew in and out. It is very do-able if you have TIME!!!
You can paddle in and paddle out in a loop and get to the North end of the park, it requires time, I have never had enough of that so I paid for a fly in and paddled out or flew in and flew out.
Any questions, email me

SunCatcher

quote dentondoc: "

quote marsonite: "

quote dentondoc: " WCPP 2013



Here is a photo album link from my 2013 trip on that portion of the Bloodvein River from Artery Lake to the point where Larus Lake dumps into the river. (The next to last pic is a route map.) Unfortunately, the pic's are not listed chronologically since they are ordered by title.



Our original plan was to make the run to Bigshell Lake, but alas the snowdown event from the early snowfall the previous fall resulted in the portages being completely clogged by deadfall (to a height of at least chest deep). Those portages have since been cleared. So what was originally slated to be a travel/layover trip turned in to more of a base-camp trip. The good news in this is that the fishing was OUTSTANDING. Unfortunately, we were pretty much stuck on water where motor boat traffic (from Sabourin Lodge) was present (mostly early and late in the day).



If I can answer any questions about that stretch of the Bloodvein, let me know.



dd"

Hey thanks. I'd like to see your pics, but for some reason the link isn't working.


"

might try copy/paste of the address (below) to your browser url/address line


http://www.bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=photos.view&catid=3507&journalname=Basecamping%20Adventures%20in%20WCPP%202013


(I re-check the link and it seems fine and I asked someone else to launch the address and it opened for them. Let me know if you continue to have an issue.)


dd "

That's weird. The link won't work for me. Says "Sorry, no photos where found for this user." So I went to the photo gallery button>view member photos and I was able to view your pics that way. Weird.

Nice photos. Looks like the camping is similar to the south...leave your tent stakes at home! We also love pictos so that would be a draw.

Thanks for the replies. I guess I conclude that people don't canoe much in the north because they don't have time. Suncatcher, did you see anyone? Were the fishing lodges a significant factor?

I had another, perhaps harebrained, idea to canoe down the Bloodvein until we came to the Gammon, and then go up the Gammon. I've heard that most of the rivers are pool and drop type rivers, but still don't know if it's feasible to ascend. That may be more miles that we could cover. That would involve canoeing a fair amount in Atikaki of course.

In a similar vein, I've considered canoeing the whole Bloodvein. It's supposed to be incredible. The trouble is getting from one end to the other at the end though.

quote marsonite: "

In a similar vein, I've considered canoeing the whole Bloodvein. It's supposed to be incredible. The trouble is getting from one end to the other at the end though.


"

I had the opportunity this year but the flight back was the deal breaker for me. Someday maybe.

I'm doing some of that northern stuff next year. But I'm staying off some of those bigger lakes when I can.

The northern half of WCPP offers less travelled waterways. The reason it doesn't receive as much visitation is due to the larger loop options here that require a longer commitment. We have slowly been re-opening old routes to offer more options and make this area more attractive to paddlers.

This summer, we finished working on the link from Bigshell across to Burntwood and down the Dutch River. This route seldom gets paddled yet it has many perks - clear waters, hidden little lake, healthy crop of wild rice, evidence of traditional use, beaches, great fishing, interesting bogs, and more.

The park crew is currently working north out of Burntwood to open up a new route that will have paddlers explore areas in the new Dedicated Protected Areas - Mimi - Job - Robert - and back down into WCPP at Hawk and Musclow. We hope to complete it next summer.

Upper Chukuni and Sabourin Rivers are great to explore... but still have a number of trees across the way to clear. The traverse from Olive south to Knox... awesome fishing and a good measure of smaller lakes to explore.

And there's the "Middle Wilderness" area between the Bloodvein and Gammon Rivers where the topography is much like the southern half of the park with rocky shores, pine and spruce forest, and moss floors... except add walleye to most of the lakes. Caribou sightings too.

Some motorboat activity can be found along the Bloodvein and Gammon Rivers including Thicketwood where outcamps are located. These outcamps offer a different service and experience to park visitors. Did you know that you can make arrangements at Sabourin Lake Lodge for a nice dinner at their lodge as part of your trip?

With the help of some good friends of the park, we have been able to open up the MinJim and the Poodle Lake links. As already mentioned, we are now focusing on other areas to clear for next summer. Many untapped waterways yet to work on. So if you have the extra few days, do not overlook the northern half... check in with an outfitter or call the office for additional information.

quote marsonite: "Thanks for the replies. I guess I conclude that people don't canoe much in the north because they don't have time. Suncatcher, did you see anyone? Were the fishing lodges a significant factor?


I had another, perhaps harebrained, idea to canoe down the Bloodvein until we came to the Gammon, and then go up the Gammon. I've heard that most of the rivers are pool and drop type rivers, but still don't know if it's feasible to ascend. That may be more miles that we could cover. That would involve canoeing a fair amount in Atikaki of course.


In a similar vein, I've considered canoeing the whole Bloodvein. It's supposed to be incredible. The trouble is getting from one end to the other at the end though.


"

I saw one couple right when I landed on Artery after that No one till I got to Donald. On this years trip, Olive to Lund, only saw a fishing boat on Knox, other than that No one, it doesnt bother me to run into a lake that allows fly in fishin, It is still WILD country for the most part. I went 6-8 days at a time twice and never saw NO ONE at WCPP

quote Que: "The northern half of WCPP offers less travelled waterways. The reason it doesn't receive as much visitation is due to the larger loop options here that require a longer commitment. We have slowly been re-opening old routes to offer more options and make this area more attractive to paddlers.


This summer, we finished working on the link from Bigshell across to Burntwood and down the Dutch River. This route seldom gets paddled yet it has many perks - clear waters, hidden little lake, healthy crop of wild rice, evidence of traditional use, beaches, great fishing, interesting bogs, and more.


The park crew is currently working north out of Burntwood to open up a new route that will have paddlers explore areas in the new Dedicated Protected Areas - Mimi - Job - Robert - and back down into WCPP at Hawk and Musclow. We hope to complete it next summer.


Upper Chukuni and Sabourin Rivers are great to explore... but still have a number of trees across the way to clear. The traverse from Olive south to Knox... awesome fishing and a good measure of smaller lakes to explore.


And there's the "Middle Wilderness" area between the Bloodvein and Gammon Rivers where the topography is much like the southern half of the park with rocky shores, pine and spruce forest, and moss floors... except add walleye to most of the lakes. Caribou sightings too.


Some motorboat activity can be found along the Bloodvein and Gammon Rivers including Thicketwood where outcamps are located. These outcamps offer a different service and experience to park visitors. Did you know that you can make arrangements at Sabourin Lake Lodge for a nice dinner at their lodge as part of your trip?


With the help of some good friends of the park, we have been able to open up the MinJim and the Poodle Lake links. As already mentioned, we are now focusing on other areas to clear for next summer. Many untapped waterways yet to work on. So if you have the extra few days, do not overlook the northern half... check in with an outfitter or call the office for additional information. "

Thanks. This is very helpful information. The meal at Sabourin Lake Lodge sounds like fun, especially during a long trip. I'll be sure to contact you when the time gets closer for some updated information. Thanks again.

As to the fishing boats. It seems many lakes have fly-in outpost cabins. On these lakes you may encounter a motor boat or two. But the Park has a 9 HP motor limit. We came across cabins and a few fishermen in motor boats, but it did not bother me in the least. If we could, we would stop and chat for a few minutes. The WCPP is huge and beautiful, and I was OK with folks enjoying it in whatever way they were able to or could afford. Even with the occasional motor boat and float plane traffic, in comparison the WC still makes the BW seem like Disney World.

Don't forget...two guys in a motor boat offered us cold beer at 10 in the morning!! ;)

In a similar vein, I've considered canoeing the whole Bloodvein. It's supposed to be incredible. The trouble is getting from one end to the other at the end though.

My hair brained daydream is to paddle down the Bloodvein and then turn around and paddle back up it, taking the Gammon river back during the last leg.

Probably not going to happen though. It's hard to find much info on current speed online but I think there are more rapids than I was hoping which would be a hassle since they'd probably all have to be portaged on the way upstream. It would take a lot of time and work but at least I wouldn't have to pay for a shuttle.

My other thought was to start at the end and paddle upstream as far as I could get. At least then if I got too exhausted or ran out of time I'd be able end with the easy part.

Alan

quote Alan Gage: "

In a similar vein, I've considered canoeing the whole Bloodvein. It's supposed to be incredible. The trouble is getting from one end to the other at the end though.

My hair brained daydream is to paddle down the Bloodvein and then turn around and paddle back up it, taking the Gammon river back during the last leg.


Probably not going to happen though. It's hard to find much info on current speed online but I think there are more rapids than I was hoping which would be a hassle since they'd probably all have to be portaged on the way upstream. It would take a lot of time and work but at least I wouldn't have to pay for a shuttle.

My other thought was to start at the end and paddle upstream as far as I could get. At least then if I got too exhausted or ran out of time I'd be able end with the easy part.


Alan"

Yeah Alan, I mentioned that idea earlier too. You never hear much about the Gammon in Atikaki PP.

Speaking of going upstream, do you have any idea what the Bloodvein is like? My preference at this point would be to go west via the smaller lakes, possibly from Lund, to Carroll lake, and then north along the border up to Artery, and then East along the Bloodvein. Partly I think the lake paddles look more daunting up there and it would be nice to go with the wind at your back. But there looks to be a few sections of actual river that might be daunting to paddle up.

quote marsonite: "Speaking of going upstream, do you have any idea what the Bloodvein is like? My preference at this point would be to go west via the smaller lakes, possibly from Lund, to Carroll lake, and then north along the border up to Artery, and then East along the Bloodvein. Partly I think the lake paddles look more daunting up there and it would be nice to go with the wind at your back. But there looks to be a few sections of actual river that might be daunting to paddle up. "

You will have a choice of 2 short portages going upstream between Artery and Mary's Lake. From Mary's, it is open waterway until you either enter Larus (short portage to Larus) or Simeon Lakes. There is virtually no current along this section of the Bloodvein. As evidence of this, I met a paddler coming downstream in one of the narrowest sections of the river. We talked for perhaps a half hour and we could not have drifted more than 5 feet in all that time (and that could just as easily have been caused by a mild breeze).

If you continue on the Bloodvein into Larus, Murdock and Knox Lakes, you'll be entering a significant burn area (esp. Murdock, which was completely ringed by fire) from a couple of seasons ago.

Hope this helps.

dd

quote marsonite: "

quote Alan Gage: "

In a similar vein, I've considered canoeing the whole Bloodvein. It's supposed to be incredible. The trouble is getting from one end to the other at the end though.

My hair brained daydream is to paddle down the Bloodvein and then turn around and paddle back up it, taking the Gammon river back during the last leg.



Probably not going to happen though. It's hard to find much info on current speed online but I think there are more rapids than I was hoping which would be a hassle since they'd probably all have to be portaged on the way upstream. It would take a lot of time and work but at least I wouldn't have to pay for a shuttle.


My other thought was to start at the end and paddle upstream as far as I could get. At least then if I got too exhausted or ran out of time I'd be able end with the easy part.



Alan"

Yeah Alan, I mentioned that idea earlier too. You never hear much about the Gammon in Atikaki PP.

Speaking of going upstream, do you have any idea what the Bloodvein is like? My preference at this point would be to go west via the smaller lakes, possibly from Lund, to Carroll lake, and then north along the border up to Artery, and then East along the Bloodvein. Partly I think the lake paddles look more daunting up there and it would be nice to go with the wind at your back. But there looks to be a few sections of actual river that might be daunting to paddle up. "

I meant taking it all the way to Lake Winnipeg and then back up and catching the Gammon on the return trip. It looks like it remains a pool and drop river for quite a while but there is a good long stretch at the end where it looks like a plain old river and from some of the reading I've done online it sounds like there are lots of small rapids. Perhaps the current between the rapids isn't so bad but going upstream I'd think it would be necessary to portage nearly all of them. Downstream you'd have the option of running the easy ones. I'd love to hear from someone who has done it what the current speed is farther downstream as you get closer to Lake Winnipeg.

Alan

The north is grand. My wife and I, along with our 3 year old lab, just finished a 10 day paddle from Olive Lake to Johnson Lake via Big Shell, Thicketwood, Larus, then up the Bloodvein to Knox, down to Indian House and finally Johnson. I would suggest checking water levels before you explore this country. The river between Olive and
Big Shell was very low...between Big Shell and Thicketwood the river was low enough to make paddling over the downfall very difficult.

But: large lakes, wonderful beaches, good fishing, and well cut portages. We have in the past paddled upstream on the Sabourin River ending several trips in Big Shell after starting in the southern end of the park. An option would be to start at Lund, work to Knox, then upstream on Knox Creek to Linge then over to Olive then loop back via
the Sabourin and those wonderful big lakes.

The river between Big Shell and Thicketwood passes through several small lakes that we have labeled North Bound, High Cliff Popple, Rice/Rock...for geographic features that took our fancy. Lots of wild rice this year, ducks, a few moose, a pair of swans and three young.

Along the rivers expect some popple, a mix of jack pine and spruce and few outcrops of rock for camping. All the lakes have the classic rock outcrop camp features, and some sand beaches.

Wind...going down river: into the prairie winds on good days. The lakes will get some good swells of waves.

We have also gone from Big Shell to Burntwood and down the Dutch. My understanding is that the long portage out of Big Shell has been cut after the snowdown.

Good trout fishing in the upper lakes, walleyes good close to the Bloodvein.

While we cut our way down river this late August/early September it is well worth the travel and I am sure as time goes the river will get more paddlers and park crews which who will help clear the paddling...

With a month to play with the possibilities are endless in WCPP. I would suggest entering at the Johnson access or Red Lake Outfitters boat shuttle to Douglas Lake. Travel to Indian House and north to Knox and on to Olive. Go to Bigshell and use either route to Thicketwood. Explore all the Bloodvein waters you want to and then head south to Dunstan and SE to Royd. If time allows paddle the new Irvine Loop or head directly to Constellation Lake. If you do the Irvine Loop you can return to Royd-Constellation or take the shortcut through Poodle. Either way you will take the Minjim route through Lightning and out to Indian House and then back to your starting point. Except for the first day and time on Thicketwood and the Bloodvein River you will see no boat traffic.

I enjoyed the Olive and Bigshell areas this spring but my best memories always center around the middle ground between the Bloodvein and Gammon Rivers. I have not mentioned Murdock because that area burned in 2011. I do not mind some burn for the diversity but not a long day of travel in it.

As others have mentioned the rivers in the northern areas will be difficult in lower water conditions. We paddled through all of them early in the season but as the water drops the trees become a problem in some areas.

You can see what it looks like in my videos of the area. It will give you a clearer picture of what the river looks like than I can describe.

TheNorthwoodsman1 youtube videos

in response to the bloodvein river questions. i canoed this river in the early 2000s. it is pool and drop, virtually no currents in the river outside of the rapids, of which there are way many. the wind as mentioned blows out of the west, it's sweeping across the canadian prairie and lake winnipeg, at times we were almost windbound, that's going down river. i would think that it would be entirely possible to canoe down the bloodvein to lake winnipeg, turn around and return to wcpp. not easy i am sure but very doable. the portages on the river were very well maintained and all very easy. don't plan on spending time in the village of bloodvein, it's not a pleasant village. the bloodvein river itself when you drop off of the shield has amazing fishing. we even caught catfish.