We have a Vexilar SonarPhone SP200 depth/fish finder installed in our Wenonah Kevlar Ultra-lite shooting thru the hull under the back seat. It's powered by a Li-Po 12v 96wh battery pack (<2lb-ea) which will run it continuously for 48 hrs, we're taking 3 packs for a 11 day trip June 15-26 to Iron/Crooked. The whole system including the three 2 lb battery packs weighs a total of 8 lbs. Also have a GoalZero 7w solar charger and a Brunton 14w SolarRoll to keep the packs topped off. The SonarPhone does not have a screen, but uses Wi-Fi to send the info to an iPhone/Android/Tablet. The Wi-Fi can be received by several devices simultaneously within 100 yds. I'll be using an iPhone 5 with the SonarPhone app (free) and Navionics app (also free) which interact on a common window. The Navionics app has a feature for customers to upload sonar maps and create a very detailed depth contour chart. See their Iron lake sonarmap map for a reference.
Anyone using a SonarPhone? Comments? Suggestions?

seems kinda heavy...brother(lol)

Are there lighter systems including power that will run for 144+ hours to cover a 11 day trip?

The SP200 unit (Transducer and T-Box) only weighs 2 lbs, it's the batteries that add up.

We could use the solar to recharge but not counting on it(Sun).

There will be four of us on a 11 day trip from EP16 to EP23.

Our total gear/food weight is 360 lbs (minus canoes), 90 lbs ea.

Needless to say (but I will) we'll be double portaging!

Planning to base camp in Iron for 6 days then Crooked/Basswood River for 3 days so not too much packing/unpacking.

Ericparlow: Like you say, it's the batteries. Lots of folks have modified their units to run off of AA lithium batteries. You appear to have a lot invested in your recharging system, but perhaps searching some of those threads would still be worth your time. Convert to solar rechargeable AAs, perhaps?

I use a Hummingbird PiranhaMax 230. I get easily 5 days from a set of 10 AA batts.

quote bassnet: "I use a Hummingbird PiranhaMax 230. I get easily 5 days from a set of 10 AA batts. "

Bassnet, what do estimate your Piranha Max and 20 AAs with carrier box weigh?

I have run the SonarPhone on 8 Energizer Ultimate Lithium for 20 hrs.
10 may run it longer as the Wi-Fi drops off at 9.6v and the extra 2 cells will pull more power from all 10 cells before they hit 0.96v/cell vs 1.2v/cell with 8.

Thanks for the suggestion to use 10 vs 8!

Just weighed my power pack (PowerAll Jump starter) on my accurate reloading scale.
It's 14.5 oz, 10 AAs are 9.6 oz without their carrier box.

So, the Li-Po battery packs are 4 oz more than a 10 cell AA pack but give a lot more run time.

Made me re-weigh the SonarPhone system.
Complete SonarPhone: transducer, 20' cable, T-Box , and wires/connectors came in at 21.47 oz.

Total system weight with one battery pack is 35.97oz.

Expect that is less than the PiranhaMax and 10 AAs?

The whole thing with 2 sets(20) batts is 3lb. 4.35oz....about the weight of a Super Blackhawk, unloaded of course. That will be good for 10 days of hard fishing...turned off at lunch.

I tried that sonar phone this spring, kept having issues with it, exchanged it and had the same issues. Have you had good luck with it? Mine would drop the wifi single, at least according to the app, never saw the wifi signal actually drop.then it would not reconnect unless I turned off the viewing device, tried it with an iPhone 5S&6 plus a newer ipad, same issues with all 3.

My model is a SP200A. The T-Box is slightly different than the ones I've seen in pictures. It has a "Reset" button in addition to the on-off button. That said, as long as I stay within Wi-Fi range of 100yds and the Wi-Fi stays connected I've never had the SonarPhone app drop the T-Box signal. If I do get out of range of the Wi-Fi I do have to close and re-open the app.

quote Ericparlow: "My model is a SP200A. The T-Box is slightly different than the ones I've seen in pictures. It has a "Reset" button in addition to the on-off button. That said, as long as I stay within Wi-Fi range of 100yds and the Wi-Fi stays connected I've never had the SonarPhone app drop the T-Box signal. If I do get out of range of the Wi-Fi I do have to close and re-open the app."

The two I had were SP-200's, I contacted Vexilar and they were not much help, I'm sure it was some bug with the App but it left a bad taste in my mouth, didn't want to risk it flaking out on a trip. Have you been using it with the Navionics in split screen mode?

Below is a screen shot of the msg I'd get, as you can see in the upper left corner it was still very much connected to the T-box wifi but for whatever reason it didn't think it was and refused to reconnect

Ragged,

Can you confirm if you have a SP200 or SP200A?

I've attached a few pictures of my SP200A for reference.

My serial number is 11403.

My app screen looks different.

Not sure if yours or mine is the latest most up to date.

Also attached a screen shot of my app window.

I've also attached a few screen shots of the Navionics SonarCharts for Iron lake showing the rapids below Curtain Falls and the area around Three Island.

No idea, I would assume they were new stock, got both from Fleet Farm and they were not on the shelf long, was in the store a week before and they didn't have them.I gave up and returned it 3-4 weeks back. The screen shot I posted was of the old App skin, they updated it on March 27, but I was having the same issues even after the big update, 2 different Tbox units and three different iOS devices all running the most current OS. When did you start using it? They very well could have fixed the bug in the time since I returned them. I'm still interested in the technology because I beleive it is going to be the way of the future.

Ragged,
I've only had our unit for a week, thus the questions to the Forum. Got it last Wed 4/23 from Amazon. Put it to the battery life test on the bench with the transducer in a bowl of water for testing it's power consumption and Wi-Fi range and floating on our pool to test the depth accuracy from 2-12 ft. It will pickup a Shad Rap reeled under it at 8ft in the pool! I've tested four different power sources: 1.) 12v8a20h AGM R1280 battery at 50+ hrs but it weighs 80 oz, 2.) PowerAll 12v 96wh pack at 48 hrs weighs 14.5 oz, 3.)8 AA battery pack at 12 hrs weighs 7.9 oz. 4.) 8 AA (4 GoalZero + 4 Energizer) rechargeables at 4 hrs due to them being NMH with a starting voltage of ~9.6v. Next test will be a 10 AA pack of Energizer Ult Li to give it a higher starting voltage of ~15v which will give a lot more run time until it drops to 9.6v where the Wi-Fi cuts off. I've had the app open and running during the battery testing and sync'ed with the Navionics app "tracking" to time it. The range is at least 100 yds outside, but only 25 yds across the inside of the house. It's about the same as my Verizon internet Wi-Fi box. So, I've not had it on a lake which why I wanted input from the Forum. We have it installed in the Wenonah and will be doing our BWCA dry-run May 8-10 on Lake Monroe near Bloomington IN. I sure hope it works better than your experience, but that's what the dry-run (it may be a wet-run based on the forecast!) is for. I'll call Vexilar and inquire about the SP200 vs SP200A and see what they say. I agree this system is the way of future, to use you existing device to view and control via an app. I was hoping more had used it and there was a larger pool of experience. Thank you for your feedback. I'll report back with what I learn in the next two weeks. Stay tuned. Eric--

I bought the SP300 last spring and used it with my Samsung G3 without many issues. It lasted a 4 day trip (actually 2 different trips) on one charge and worked well on Trout lake (very deep spots sounding well).
I did bring vexilar batteries (rigged up with 12 volt chargers) for the phone.

I recently got a Samsung Tab pro but have not tried that yet. I will be testing it out soon and taking it to Sag over memorial day weekend (on a motorized trip).

Hmm... I was just about to pull the trigger on a similar system. Did you by chance look at the Deeper Smart Fish Finder ? I'm just curious about differences you see between the systems. The Deeper is USB charged, so I can hook up to a 16,000 mah portable battery pack that I already have to charge.

Eric
I have done battery tests on several types of batteries with regard to loads similar to fish detectors. For non rechargeable the 2 types that are most commonly used are Alkaline and Lithium. The voltage out of the 2 types is different so you will want a different number in series to get the most out of the batteries for your device. For devices that require between 10 and 17 volts I recommend the following.
10 Alkaline in series.
OR
8 Energizer Ultimate Lithium in series.
For rechargeable the NiMH are the best of the no hassle (no protective electronics required) batteries. They are still heave for the power out of them. They are lower voltage than the Alkaline but 10 in series is the correct number for fish detectors. I have been running a fish detector of a Lipoly 3 cell battery for a couple of years. The battery I use is similar to
this Lipo battery pack. The one I have is no longer available but this one would run many types of fish detectors for about 80 hours. If it is operated without protection electronics it will most likely start a fire or be destroyed the first time it is charged or discharged. The protection boards are not very expensive but they need to be connected up by soldering wires to the boards.
What I think will be the best option for now is one of the batteries packs with charger that are available from
this ebay search Would someone buy one of these and let me test it for a couple of days

LONG POST
I called Vexilar Tech Support this afternoon at (952) 884-5291.
They were VERY helpful.
Talked with Pat first on the SonarPhone SP200 vs SP200A, then Tom on SonarPhone interface with Navionics app
The model SP200A has only been out since early '15.
According to Pat:
The “A” model is very different in construction.
It has a dedicated on/off switch so you can leave it on and the power supply will turn it on/off without need to press the button on the unit.
This was done for boaters who permanently mount the T-Box out of sight and want to just flip the master power and everything fires up.
When the dedicated on/off was changed the reset function was moved to a separate “RESET” button.
This allows a reset without turning it on-off-on to reset.
The box physically changed also.
The button(s) moved from the bottom to the top for installation reasons.
The transducer cable and power connection moved to the bottom.
The power cable changed from a socket/plug to a hardwired pigtail.
The transducer and pigtail being hardwired allow it to be made waterproof for the SP300’s portable use.
Pat didn’t give out any internal changes but I expect there were several made.
The SonarPhone app has had many versions 1.0, 1.2, 1.9, and now at 2.1
The app GUI changed significantly from 1.9 to 2.1
The unit is designed to go into a “Sleep” mode after 15min without a device connected.
I have not seen this “sleep” mode reflected in the current draw which stated by Tom is to drop to 1/10 of the active draw which would be 0.0125 Amp.
That said Pat & Tom both quoted the active current draw at 27.5 mAmp (0.0275 Amp)
I've tested the Wi-Fi only mode to draw 0.126 Amps (solid LED lit), when the device is connected it ups to 0.145 Amps (blinking LED).
The 20 deg vs 40 deg sonar angle has no effect on the current draw.
I asked Pat & Tom what they recommend as the best power supply,
(Keeping in mind Vexilar sells Li-Po batteries with 12v12aH for their ice fishing units but they weigh 6lb)
Their response was the exact PowerAll power pack I’ve been using.
See: http://thepowerall.com/
The specs of the PowerAll Supreme are:
• Battery Type: Lithium Ion
• Battery Capacity: 16,000mAh
• Watt Hours: 59.2Wh
• Peak Amps: 600A
• Vehicles: 12 Volt (4-8 Cylinder)
• Lifespan: 1,000 Life Cycles
• USB Outputs: 2x 5V/2.1A
• LED Flashlight w/Multi-Modes: Flashlight, Strobe Light, SOS Emergency Flash
• Dimensions: 6.7”x3.1”x1.25”
• Weight: 14 oz.
• MSRP $169

MagicPaddler, When I was searching for info on battery packs I ran across several people who bought the 12v6800mAh packs off EBay.
They found it was really a 12v2200mAh when tested, but commented it was a good value even at that power storage level.
The primary users were RC hobbyist.

Now, on to Tom’s input on the T-Box to app link and the Navionics app interface.
To get the Navonics app to link to the T-Box the SonarPhone app CANNOT be open at the same time!
This was counter-intuitive for me but after knowing this I fired up Navionics on its own and got the dual screen automatically as expected.
They debated how to do this with the Navionic app team and determined that only one could be used at a time.
Tom commented that Navionics really took the ball on the interface and did far more than Vexilar expected.
And he also commented that new and improved apps are in the works with a lot of additional capability.

Ragged, I asked Tom about the SonarPhone app dropping the T-Box link.
He said two things:
1.) The Wi-Fi needs to be locked to the T-Box in the device’s setttings and not able to switch to another stronger Wi-Fi signal.
If it switches the link will be lost and the app will need to be cycled to restore the link.
2.) All other apps MUST be closed when using the SonarPhone or Navionics app.

ChiPaddler, I looked at the Deeper first and was planning to buy it before finding the Vexilar.
The Deeper “Ball” has an internal battery that runs for 3-5 hours per charge.
To charge it has to be disassembled by unscrewing the top cover (now not it’s not waterproof which is BAD in the BWCA) and plugging in a USB power source.
It then takes 2-3 hours to charge.
The Deeper seems like a shore fisherman’s unit and a lower level unit/system than the Vexilar.
Not to mention the SonarPhone’s interaction with the Navionics app, which knowing what I know now would make the decision to go Vexilar very easy.

Take-Away: Vexilar Tech Support was outstanding and answered all my questions on the first call and I didn’t have to wait on hold at all.
We’ll see how it works May 8-10 out on a lake that I’m unfamiliar with.
We’re going Walleye hunting!
Stay Tuned for an update.
Eric--

Eric
Thanks for the update. Your information on the battery pack is useful. You say it is RC hobbyist. RC hobbyist want to run cars, boats and helicopters from their batteries. They frequently draw over 10 amps from there batteries. Batteries that will supply that high current and still have their stated capacity are much more expensive than ones that will supply 1/10 of an amp. Those batteries may provide the stated capacity while running a load like a fish detector. I still want to test one.

MagicPaddler,

Here's a link to a detailed review of one of the 6800mAh packs.

6800mAh Review Link

In the battery test he discharges at 340 mA. That is in the range of some fish detectors or at least not 10 times what a detector draws so it applies to detectors. Batteries from China have a reputation of stretching their capacity values.

quote Ericparlow: "Ragged,


Can you confirm if you have a SP200 or SP200A?


I've attached a few pictures of my SP200A for reference.


My serial number is 11403.


My app screen looks different.


Not sure if yours or mine is the latest most up to date.


Also attached a screen shot of my app window.


I've also attached a few screen shots of the Navionics SonarCharts for Iron lake showing the rapids below Curtain Falls and the area around Three Island.


"

Update:
Took the SP200A on a test run.
It powered up and stayed linked to the iPhone with no issues during a 8hr paddle.
It tracked the depth to exactly match the NAVIONICS chart within +/- 1 ft.
No issues shooting through the Kevlar hull.
The shake down revealed several issues but none with the SP200A.
The iPhone battery needed to be connected to an external source after 4 hours.
This is because it needs to be at full brightness to be able to be seen in the sunlight.
I tried to use the arm band that comes with the SP200A.
No good for paddling, it gets wet and is just not comfortable when doing a lot of cruising/trolling.
The arm band works OK when just fishing and not paddling much.
I will be using a fixed mount for the iPhone that attaches to the thwart using a RAM flexible arm and swivel ball connection.

The Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA 10 pack worked as expected on a bench test and ran the unit for 18 hours from 14.8v down to 9.6v where the WiFi cuts off. The LED was still lit but no T-Box signal. Expensive test! I got the batteries off Amazon for $1.60 ea.

For BWCA trip I will be using the PowerAll jump starters referred to in the previous posts. Based on my bench test and trial run 3 PowerAlls will run the SP200A and the iPhone for 10 hrs/day for 10 hard days of fishing! I'm taking the Energizer AAs as a back up and spares for flashlights.
Next I'll be using the SP200A and the NAVIONICS Sonarcharts Live to map the depth contours of the 5 ac pond behind Sam's Club at I65 exit 68 in Columbus IN
Enjoy!

quote Ericparlow: "Update:



The Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA 10 pack worked as expected on a bench test and ran the unit for 18 hours from 14.8v down to 9.6v where the WiFi cuts off. The LED was still lit but no T-Box signal. Expensive test! I got the batteries off Amazon for $1.60 ea.


!
"

Eric
I think I can save you some money. From measurements I made on my fish detector I found that the higher the voltage the more current the detector drew from the batteries. If the voltage was too low the detector did not work properly or completely shut down. So having the optimum voltage will optimize the performance of your detector and extend battery life. If I could choose a battery pack that would supply the minimum voltage that the electronics worked well that would be optimum. I believe that optimum voltage for most fish detectors is 10 volts. You stated your unit worked down to 9.6 volts and that sounds reasonable. Looking at data I have taken and
PUBLISHED DISCHARGE CURVES you can see that when a Energizer Ultimate Lithium (EUL) battery has discharged to where there is 1.25 volts there is little energy left in it and when it has been discharge to where there is 1.2 volts there is even less energy in it. So if you have 8 EUL battery in series that have discharged to where their voltage is down to 1.2 volts the voltage to your device will be 8 X 1.2 = 9.6 volts. Because your electronics will probably draw less current on the lower voltage provided by 8 EUL batteries in series your electronics will probably run slightly longer on 8 EUL batteries in series rather than 10 EUL batteries in series but not much longer.
So where did this idea of using 10 batteries come from? Probably me, but not with EUL batteries. Alkaline batteries are lower voltage batteries and 10 of them in series provide the correct voltage until almost all the energy is used up out of the batteries.
Repeat after me.
Lithium Polymer batteries use 3 cells in series for a fish detector.
Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries use 8 cells in series for a fish detector.
Alkaline batteries use 10 cells in series for a fish detector.
.
Lithium Polymer batteries use 3 cells in series for a fish detector.
Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries use 8 cells in series for a fish detector.
Alkaline batteries use 10 cells in series for a fish detector.
.
Lithium Polymer batteries use 3 cells in series for a fish detector.
Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries use 8 cells in series for a fish detector.
Alkaline batteries use 10 cells in series for a fish detector.

So, the theory is: '"the power the fish finder consumes is proportional to the voltage applied". Based on that, a voltage regulator set just above the minimum operating voltage would maximize the time regardless of which battery type or how many were used. If that holds true then more batteries = more time at a 1:1 ratio.
To test the theory I'll use a variable power supply and plot the applied voltage vs current draw.
Thanks for the tip. Using 8 EUL is far preferred not only from the cost but also weight and the 8 battery back has a much better shape (tall & skinny) than the 10 (wide & flat).
I'll report back with the findings and a plot. ERic--

Eric

quote Ericparlow: "So, the theory is: '"the power the fish finder consumes is proportional to the voltage applied". Based on that, a voltage regulator set just above the minimum operating voltage would maximize the time regardless of which battery type or how many were used. If that holds true then more batteries = more time at a 1:1 ratio.
To test the theory I'll use a variable power supply and plot the applied voltage vs current draw.
Thanks for the tip. Using 8 EUL is far preferred not only from the cost but also weight and the 8 battery back has a much better shape (tall & skinny) than the 10 (wide & flat).
I'll report back with the findings and a plot. ERic--


"

That is true only if the regulator is efficient. The most common type of regulator (like a 7810) will just throw the extra power away (and gets hot) but there is a type that converts the extra voltage into current at about 90% efficient. You can find them on ebay for less than $3 if you search includes words like (buck down converter). My guess is the most efficient and lightest system will be 8 Energizer Ultimate Lithium in series. If the cost is your concern and you are willing to carry a little extra weight go with 10 alkaline batteries. The best alkaline battery value is Ikea batteries at$.199 each.
I have that data (voltage verses current) on only one fish detector and would like to have it on others. Please post your data. It will not be a 1 to 1 ratio that is when the voltage goes up 10% the current will go up but less than 10%. Fish detectors draw more current during the pulse which makes it difficult to read with many digital amp meters. My meter has a setting which will give a average reading. A analog meter will be slow enough to average the current. My readings were.
For 17 volts the detector drew 153 mA.
For 10 volts the detector drew 116 mA.
I express this as for a 41% drop in voltage there was a 24% drop in current.

That's a huge difference:

17V, 0.153A, 2.6W
10V, 0.116A, 1.16W

2.24 times the power draw!

Even at 10% loss in a voltage regulator the system would be more efficient and run almost twice as long.

I'm interested to see if the SP200A has the same voltage to current relationship.

I plan to run it at constant voltage (via a regulated adjustable power supply) and record the power usage for a 5 min run to get the average current. Then drop in 1V steps from 18V down to when the T-Box WiFi drops off which has been 9.6V.

I hate to burn through another 8 EULs just to prove to myself they run for the same or longer than 10.

I have 24 AA EULs packed along with the 3 PowerAll packs for the trip.

Total weight for 210 WH (~57000 mAH) is 56.68 oz (3.54 lbs).
That's great vs the AGM battery I was going to take.
The Li-Po PowerAll still had a much better weight to power ratio
Li-Po = 0.24 oz/WH
EULs = 0.39 oz/WH

Suggestions?

One of the best batteries for weight to energy are Lipoly batteries. The best I have found are from HobbyKing.com. I have purchased some and they meet specks at a good price but no built in protection. They do have the leads brought out so you can wire them to a protection card. Without the weight of the protection card one of their batteries has a 9.4 mAh/Gram ratio. The specks you quoted included the protection board and have a 35 mAh/Gram ratio. The battery you specked is about 10 times bigger than the one I got the information from so that would help yours but I question that your battery would have almost 4 times the power density of the ones sold by HobbyKing.
What several batter pack sellers do is to say this pack has 3 cells in series and each cell puts out 19000mAh so the pack has 3 X 19000mAh = 57000mAh and that is not true. If there are cells in series the voltages add and the mAh is equal to the lowest of the series cells. Remember battery salesman are salesman.
Looking forward to seeing your data on current draw from your detector. With that data I can give you an idea of 8 EUL battery life.

Ericparlow
Got any new data?
MagicPaddler

Just got my new battery meter last night.
Ran the current vs voltage test on the SP200.
Measured current from 8V to 16.5V in 0.5V steps.
Found the WiFi does work down to 8V but could not confirm reliable depth readings in garage, looked OK.
Meter only has 2 Sig. Digits to 00.00
Summary of Current at
8V = 0.19A
10V = 0.16A
12V = 0.16A
14V = 0.15A
16V = 0.14A
So, the current drops as the voltage is increased to maintain a power draw.
I also ran a total power consumption test for 5 min at each of the above voltages
8V = 0.016mAH (0.128mWH)
10V = 0.014 mAH (0.140mWH)
12V = 0.013 mAH (0.156mWH)
14V = 0.013 mAH (0.182mWH)
16V = 0.012 mAH (0.192mWH) 37% higher than at 10V
From these results it shows the most efficient voltage to run to get the longest battery life is the lowest that it will function.
Bottom line: the SP200 consumes about 2W / H.
ERic--
Hitting the water at EP16 Monday (6/15)

That is not that bad of a current draw. You should get about 16 hours out of a set of 8 Ultimate Lithium batteries. I copied your data and saved it on my computer for future reference. Thanks for posting your results.
Have a good trip and look north and wave. I hit the water Friday (6/12) at Nym Lake.

EricParlow, How has the SP200 been working out for you and is it still your canoe fish lo-k-tor? If so, what is you most up to date battery package, charging for the sp200. What is your latest Battery configuration for your smart phone? If not, what lo-k-tor have you switched over to?

Ericparlow, App engineers at Vexilar are recommending this year as a battery source for the SP200 and the smart phone battery charge source. Weego published Battery Capacity specifications??? The following output 12 V and 5V usb output to charge smart phone:

Model 22, 20Wh, $68, 0.65 lb, 6.25" x 3.175" x .75", Max Input: 5V/3A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:1700A/300A, Max Output: 5V or 9V/2.4A
Model 44.1, 41Wh, $96, 1.5 lb, 6.5" x 3.4" x 1.5", Max Input: 15V/1A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:2100A/440A, Max Output: 5, 9, 12V/2.4A, 12V/10A, 19V/3.5A
Model 66.1, 61Wh, $128, 2.5 lb, 9.2" x 3.2" x 1.5", Max Input: 15V/2A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:2500A/600A, Max Output: 5, 9, 12V/2.4A, 12V/10A, 19V/3.5A
Without 5V USB Out to charge smart phone
Model 22S, 20Wh, $56, 0.65 lb, 5.5? x 3? x .675?, Max Input: 5V/2A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:1700A/300A,

Weego products