So, there have been some big discussions around campsite messes, as well as "enhancements" that some have been doing to yet other sites. I share the frustration with the garbage people leave behind, and I too think that keeping impact minimal (true zero is impossible) is very important.

But this topic prompted a thought - and I'm curious what the hive mind here would say.

Let's say I take a group of people to Zephira (something we are considering doing, as it seems no one has put a boat in there in basically forever). It's safe to assume there are no campsites on Zephira, since there is no true way in there and no one visits the lake. The nature of the buschwhack into there also means, if you get the boats there, you will be camping on the lake.

What is acceptable in the way of creating a campsite? My thoughts would be, we'd find a suitable spot, clear a tent pad or two, and build a fire ring. Maybe, if necessary, clear out a little small stuff to make room to get a boat off the water (may not be needed). And that's about it.

Is that too much, or just right? Would you do more? What is acceptable rules-wise?

I should note of course that if we did put in a site, we'd want to make sure future visitors used it and didn't create another one, so I'd be sure to enter it into the PCD.

Well you can camp anywhere in Quetico but you cannot cut down any trees to build sites. Most of the time you can find what looks like what would make a good site by looking for rock ledges and open areas and use those. As for building a fire pit. I would say build a small one and then break it down afterwards and scatter the rocks and ash.

I would look at satellite photos from several websites and topo maps to look for areas that you could use for campsites. Looking at the map there are some islands and points that look rocky so those would be the first places I would think about using for a campsite. Or are there some sandy beaches on the lake? As those would be good to use too.

quote OldFingers57: "Well you can camp anywhere in Quetico but you cannot cut down any trees to build sites. Most of the time you can find what looks like what would make a good site by looking for rock ledges and open areas and use those. As for building a fire pit. I would say build a small one and then break it down afterwards and scatter the rocks and ash. "

Sorry, should have clarified, when I said clearing tent pads, I didn't mean cutting down trees. I mean shoving dead stuff out of the way and maybe clearing off little ground stuff and rocks if necessary, just to make a spot big enough to pitch a tent. We'd never cut down any trees.

Clearing deadfall and other stuff away would be acceptable in my opinion.

Can't wait to hear the trip report if you do something like this.

Let's be realistic here though, if you are camping with a group more than 2 and have to bushwhack a camp there is absolutely no way you all are going to find a tent spot without some pruning or clearing slightly. Maybe I shouldn't say no way but more of not very likely.

You should just do the bare minimum needed to have a safe camp I guess, I don't have a problem with it.

I don't know about the fire pit. Should you scatter them or leave them which is worse... I'd leave that up to your judgment.

With all that said--even if you make a new camp and clear it...by the time I ever get there I am sure the forest will have reclaimed it ;)

T

I would leave your fire pit as is when you are done. People building, destroying and rebuilding fire pits makes more of an impact than just leaving it. Do people destroy their fire pits at established sites in the Q?

The situation will dictate some of the choices to be made and I am in the camp where leave no trace is often not reasonable, but leave minimal trace and for sure clean up behind yourself dictates. Seems like the original OP follows this idea so I too am in the camp looking for a report how it did turn out.

To further reduce impact use a stove rather than fire and consider hammock over tent. I have bushwhacked a site in the Q at a site clearly not viable for tent and was quite comfy for the night. When I left the next day only the log I pushed aside (and boy did the ants scurry) showed my even being there. I would want more to base camp.

quote AmarilloJim: "I would leave your fire pit as is when you are done. People building, destroying and rebuilding fire pits makes more of an impact than just leaving it. Do people destroy their fire pits at established sites in the Q?"

No but those are established and marked on the maps campsites. It was suggested to us when we went thru orientation that if we needed to make camp at an unestablished site that we not make a fire pit or destroy it if we make a very small one. Not like the established sites where they have huge rocks firepits.

Leave no trace - but if you do, keep it to yourself.

quote JackpineJim: "Leave no trace - but if you do, keep it to yourself."

Lol

If it is a lake with zero campsites at present and I think after the last 100 years one site has not been made, I would say do minimum camping at that site and than take down your fire ring after being done. There is not many lakes with no signs of a permanent campsite. We can leave a few like that.

"To further reduce impact use a stove rather than fire and consider hammock over tent. "

Now that would be the best LNT option.

I camp on Crown Land lakes, so just about every lake I visit is a lake with no campsites. I just paddle the shoreline until I find a possible tent pad flat enough and big enough to pitch a tent and I'm all set. However, LNT is impossible, for I've returned to those sites a couple years later and I can still see where I smushed moss. It's not dead, but it's exactly as it was.

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I agree that with a lake like Zephira, it's good to leave it as wild as possible.

But I do have mixed feelings about the fire ring. Clearly, using a stove would be best. Though I admit, I like a good campfire. If I made a small fire ring, I do wonder if it's best to leave it as is, or break it up and scatter it, which might make more of a mess.

Also...

quote JackpineJim: "Leave no trace - but if you do, keep it to yourself."

That's awesome, haha.

I, like you, love camp fires. You could through the stones from your pit well into the water and this would LNT.

Here's what the Leave No Trace Center recommends:

Minimize Campfire Impacts
Campfires can cause lasting impacts to the backcountry. Use a lightweight stove for cooking and enjoy a candle lantern for light.
Where fires are permitted, use established fire rings, fire pans, or mound fires.
Keep fires small. Only use sticks from the ground that can be broken by hand.
Burn all wood and coals to ash, put out campfires completely, then scatter cool ashes.

Why not make and use a small fire pan, USFS Firepans. I have several commercial aluminum pizza pans that would work well with a sand/dirt layer in the bottom.
I do believe in the LNT principal and try hard to accommodate, Stove would be my choice primary.

butthead

No need to clear for a place when you use a hammock. Just need two trees spaced correctly. Take a stove and there is no need to make a fire area.

quote Savage Voyageur: "No need to clear for a place when you use a hammock. Just need two trees spaced correctly. Take a stove and there is no need to make a fire area. "

I have tried to do the sleep outside thing in Quetico a few times, and regretted it every time. The bugs are just too horrendous. How do you deal with that?

quote DancesWithTrees: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "No need to clear for a place when you use a hammock. Just need two trees spaced correctly. Take a stove and there is no need to make a fire area. "

I have tried to do the sleep outside thing in Quetico a few times, and regretted it every time. The bugs are just too horrendous. How do you deal with that?
"

Either you're joking or you really need to check out the hammock camping forum.

butthead

quote DancesWithTrees: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "No need to clear for a place when you use a hammock. Just need two trees spaced correctly. Take a stove and there is no need to make a fire area. "

I have tried to do the sleep outside thing in Quetico a few times, and regretted it every time. The bugs are just too horrendous. How do you deal with that?
"

This is what I use. Blackbird Put a tarp over you, an under quilt under you, and your sleeping bag "on top" of you. It all packs down real small and light too. Join the private Hanging Forum here for more ideas.

BTW, I would leave the fireplace intact. How often will people visit that site? And when they do they will appreciate the rocks.

quote butthead: "

quote DancesWithTrees: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "No need to clear for a place when you use a hammock. Just need two trees spaced correctly. Take a stove and there is no need to make a fire area. "

I have tried to do the sleep outside thing in Quetico a few times, and regretted it every time. The bugs are just too horrendous. How do you deal with that?
"

Either you're joking or you really need to check out the hammock camping forum.


butthead"

I wasn't joking, and I didn't know there was a hammock forum.

quote TomT: "

quote DancesWithTrees: "

quote Savage Voyageur: "No need to clear for a place when you use a hammock. Just need two trees spaced correctly. Take a stove and there is no need to make a fire area. "

I have tried to do the sleep outside thing in Quetico a few times, and regretted it every time. The bugs are just too horrendous. How do you deal with that?
"

This is what I use. Blackbird Put a tarp over you, an under quilt under you, and your sleeping bag "on top" of you. It all packs down real small and light too. Join the private Hanging Forum here for more ideas.

BTW, I would leave the fireplace intact. How often will people visit that site? And when they do they will appreciate the rocks.




"

Good info, thanks. Learn something new every day.

Hanging Forum, should have linked this in my reply, DWT. No offense meant.
I am not a hanger, but interested in the use and designs.

Matthew Quigley:
"I said I didn't have much use for one. Didn't say I didn't know how to use it."

butthead

I'd be willing to bet you will find an old campsite there. We found one on Dettbarn Lake, with a large fire pit. In fact almost every lake I've ever bushwhacked into (& I've been in many), I have found old campsites that we've made usable by moving a few downed logs or branches. Some pits had large trees growing from them.. Often the fire pits were large & very old, and I think may have been from Indians.
If you don't find an old site, it usually just takes moving a few downed logs over a flat tent site....I'm sure you'd make do.

Here's one on a bushwhack lake....

Please don’t throw the rocks in the water! When someone needs those rocks it is a pain to wade out in the water to retrieve them. I have notice the camps around the edges of the park where rookies camp have no rocks in the camp sites.

Yes sir! I have seen the result of taking a rock from underwater to add to a fire ring.

butthead

quote Stumpy: "I'd be willing to bet you will find an old campsite there. We found one on Dettbarn Lake, with a large fire pit. In fact almost every lake I've ever bushwhacked into (& I've been in many), I have found old campsites that we've made usable by moving a few downed logs or branches. Some pits had large trees growing from them.. Often the fire pits were large & very old, and I think may have been from Indians.
If you don't find an old site, it usually just takes moving a few downed logs over a flat tent site....I'm sure you'd make do.


Here's one on a bushwhack lake....

"

That's a good point. Even if no one (or nearly no one) has camped there in years or decades, it's possible there was a camp from long ago. There was some logging in that part of the (now) park as recently as the 1940's I've been told. And of course there were still Ojibway ranging around in there into the early 20th century. In fact, if we did find some very old site, I'd consider that a pretty cool archaeological find.

I still think the chances of there being a site on that one aren't huge, and of course a much lower chance we'd even find it if it's pretty well overgrown. But worth looking for, before trying to create one.

Also a good chance to clarify again, I have no interest in doing anything more than just making room for tent(s) and a fire pit. Not zero impact I know, but as minimal as possible within those parameters.

You can look at aerial photos and pretty well guess where the campsites could be, or were. Even before I had access to computer & aerial photos, I made guesses based on topo maps as to where someone might have camped. Several cases I ended up being dead on. On Dettbarn lake there was a sprawling campsite right where I expected. It had a large stack of bone dry, cut wood next to a well exposed fire pit. The neat stack was 3 feet high, and would have been higher, but the bottom logs had turned to dust. We guessed the wood was cut 30+ years before.
The two no name lakes just West of the South end of Agnes... They both had sites exactly where I guessed. The northern lake site was very scant but had a broken down fire pit, that I resurrected. The Southern one had a for sure site with a good fire pit.
This is the stuff that makes me love the bushwhack....you never know what you'll find.
Dettbarn Lake...