Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Group Forum: Quetico Afficionados :: 28 days in the Q in 2020, a Resolution
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tumblehome |
My last farther north trip was to St. Raphael Provincial park which is more or less in between Wabakimi and WCPP. I was looking for the farthest place I could reasonably get to so I could find solitude and wilderness. I was somewhat disappointed in my trip. After several days of paddling I ended up on a lake with a Fly-in camp. I saw float planes and motor boats on a good part of my trip. The few campsites I found had furniture, cooking utensils, garbage, and what not. Upon my return to the US, I realized that everything I was looknig for was actually in the Q. Bigger trees, more diverse forest, amazing lakes, solitude, campsites. There is no need for me to travel hundreds of miles further for what was staring me in the face all along. Tom PS. HATE HATE small mouth bass. I don't fish much but when I do I hope that I never catch one of them. I fish for food. My personal opinion that is not shared by many. |
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joewildlife |
I'm a fisheries biologist by education and have worked in the field before switching to the wildlife side of things. It's fun to see the reaction of the Smallmouth fanboys here in Missouri when they see Quetico pics of me or my daughter with a 3 or 4 pound smallmouth on a stringer, lol. I feel no guilt in killing them but they just don't taste as good as the other species, and have a surprisingly small amount of meat on 'em for their size. We aim to eat a fish every night and the fact that we eat smallmouth now and then is a testament as to what they do to the native fish populations in some lakes. Joe |
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joewildlife |
I've never done a solo trip of any duration, so really look forward to the read. I need to figure out if I'm cut out of it. It sounds like a book best enjoyed on a trip to Quetico. Joe |
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PineKnot |
Maybe I missed such data/reports. But the following article was an interesting read and some information re walleye/smallmouth impacts. One part of this article discusses the impact of warming waters leading to die-off of ciscoe, a primary food source for walleye populations. Don't mean to hijack this thread and perhaps I should move this to the fishing forum and start a real food fight.... :-) In-Fisherman Article--Smallmouths at risk |
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joewildlife |
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joewildlife |
In the fall I'm doing the Hunter's Island loop more or less, with a paddling buddy. 7.7% of my year in the Quetico. Not enough, not enough. Joe |
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joewildlife |
This can be mostly avoided simply by route choice...if you get out of the walleye waters, you will see nobody. This is because where there are walleye, there are cabins and motorboats. Harlan explained it to me. US fishermen want walleye. Period. So go to trout water and you see nobody. Once I left Mexican Hat (the Kawnipi walleye factory of the WCPP), the only people I saw was OldZip and his wife Carol, and that was absolutely in the middle of nowhere on trout water. A 14 day trip. Spring 2019 we took a route through the southern end of the park and it was damn near deserted. The year before we were on the Gammon and areas more central, and saw more people than you would expect for a park touting less than 600 canoeists a year. In two long trips to WCPP, we only saw 1 occupied campsite. Personally, a trip to WCPP is a lot more expensive and requires two additional vacation days of travel. 2 nights hotel and meals in Red Lake. And we used shuttle service and that is pretty costly. To make matters worse my contact and outfitter has been Red Lake Outfitters, which is now gone. Richard at Chukuni Outdoors may pick up some of the slack, but that is yet to be seen. I think he mainly wants to run a hunting/fishing shop. I considered Harlan a friend and will miss his enthusiasm, knowledge, and helpfulness! Woodland Caribou is very rough and rugged country. The portages are shorter by far, but can be very rough and brushy, and/or near impossible to find and follow. Much of the park has had stand-replacement fires in the last 2 decades, and some parts have burned more than once. Campsites are a much bigger issue, because so many are now unusable because they are grown over in small jack pines or have all kinds of widow-makers standing around ready to kill you during a storm. So overall, travel can be difficult and time consuming finding and using portages and campsites. It can also be very fun and adventurous if you have the right mind set! Ecologically, the park is jack pine and old growth black spruce. Old growth black spruce is not particularly attractive, as the amount of blowdown is significant. Jack pine is usually in thickets, being the species that colonizes after a burn. You will find very very few food pack hanging trees (I don't hang, so it doesn't matter), but you will also find most campsites are very small and have few larger trees for hammocks and such. Hell, in a lot of areas even setting up a tarp or two tents is tough. That said, the fishing can be fantastic. Overall, my most epic and enjoyable trip ever was Spring 2019 when we did 14 days on trout water for the most part and it was excellent. Having done that, I don't know that it could be repeated elsewhere in the park. I WILL be back, but for the next couple years I will do new routes in Quetico I haven't done before, and then start exploring out of Beaverhouse since I have seen most of the southern part of the park. Quetico is much more scenic if you like old growth cedar, red pine, and white pine, larger open beautiful campsites, more topographic relief, etc. That will be nice to get back to. And interior Quetico has some awesome fishing in and of itself. I have tentative routes sketched out for 2 future WCPP trips across the park on the Gammon and Bloodvein systems. I know I will see motorboats and cabins...which is okay if that is expected. not okay if you want true solitude. After the memory of my spring 2019 trip fades, I will do it again. Overall, I'd say Quetico has very few drawbacks, while WCPP can have a few, some can be avoided but some can't. If you want to look into WCPP, check out the Red Lake Outfitters web page if it is still up. Their package trips provide good clues as to what to expect in different areas. See the Trout and Solitude package, as this was in the area I took my trip in 2019 that was trout waters and was pretty much deserted. If you are into adventure and want to see new places, at least one trip to WCPP is in order so you can experience it yourself. Not a place I would take newbies or "softer" folks. And the wind blows at WCPP. Every. Single. Day. You gotta remember, Quetico is a lush boreal rainforest. WCPP is found on the ecological prairie/boreal transition so it is much drier and winder, and is a fire dependent community. To answer you question, I'm going back to Quetico for the beauty, solitude, fishing, weather, old growth, nice campsites, and logistics. Joe |
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joewildlife |
But in talking about WCPP, it has renewed my interest and I've received some pointers and done some research. I no longer want to do the Gammon and Bloodvein rivers just to say I had. Turns out there is a lot of waters smack between the two, with no lodges and probably the non-motorized solitude I'm looking for. I didn't want to blame walleye population declines on smallmouth. Yes there are a lot of factors that might lead to declines in some areas. I bet smallmouth are tops on the list in some places, but I can't and won't say they are the sole reason! Maybe 2021 I'll head back to WCPP. If not, it will be a trip out of Beaverhouse. Oh, Richard at Chukuni is surely filling some of the void with Harlan's departure from the WCPP scene. I know for a fact that he is now selling the more detailed WCPP park maps that Harlan created. I look forward to giving him my business. He gave me great advice (and sold me the lures I needed) to catch a good many lake trout last time I was up there! Joe |
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joewildlife |
WCPP has almost no smallmouth bass. I'm a snob. but smallmouth bass do not belong in the north country. I don't like to eat them so I'd just as well not have them there, they are a detriment to good walleye, pike, and trout fishing (and eating) as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather catch pike trout and walleye all day long and throw 'em all back after I've kept one or two, than be in a lake where all you catch is those damn smallmouth. Joe |
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old_salt |
joewildlife: "Just realized something... Same song, 2nd verse. Smallies are Quetico’s carp. They don’t belong here. |
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joewildlife |
Most of the lakes are of extreme low fertility. That means it takes a lot of water just to support one top predator. There is just not ecological room for another top predator, so something has to give. Also, in some lakes especially smaller ones, the smallmouth overpopulate and you end up with hoards of 10-11" fish. When that happens eat 'em like they were crappie. Joe |
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cburton103 |
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TomT |
That said, I hope they stay out of WCCP. |
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old_salt |
It will never happen because of the popularity of bass fishing. |
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Frenchy19 |
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Frenchy19 |
joewildlife: "It's a complex fish community when you have as many as 3 or 4 top predators. I can tell you that smallmouth are detrimental to native fish populations, just as any other introduced predatory fish is. The rainbow trout is perhaps the most widely introduced predatory fish in the US, and it is decimating brown, brookie, cutthroat, and other mountain trouts in many places. But back to smallmouth, there is no doubt is competes for food with other fish, which slows the growth of the other fish, but it also eats any small pike, trout, or walleye it encounters, so there are less of them too. I may be wrong, but isn't it technically true that walleye are not native to most of those lakes? I am fairly certain this is true in the BW. In any case, I get your point, but I do enjoy catching the smallies! |
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old_salt |
Yes, they’re fun to catch. Another angle to consider, and maybe Joe can weigh in here, is that bass are competing with the native game fish. My observations are that the waldos and lakers are not doing as well in lakes dominated by bass. |
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Jackfish |
Have you read the book Alone in a Canoe by Mike Kinziger? Great story about paddling extended solo trips in WCPP, Quetico, Opasquia & Wabakimi Provincial Parks. If you haven't read it, I think it would be right up your alley. |
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joewildlife |
I've never been to Wabakimi and someday I will travel there. I was told that it shares a lot of similarities with WCPP, being a "younger" park (hasn't been a park for so long) and has cabins and boats on it as well. At least some parts. I was told that some lakes are accessible from outside the park with big, big motor boats. But Wabakimi is a mystery to me so I will hit it some day. Don't get me wrong, WCPP is not overrun by motorized boats by any means. I think I saw about 8 of them in operation on my 2018 trip. But not a one on the Trout loop, just a couple stashes that look to be rarely used. Here's a couple pics of WCPP campsites: One of the biggest pike my daughter ever caught |
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arctic |
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cburton103 |
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