Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Winter Camping and Activities :: Hot tent?
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awbrown |
There is a reason that Snowtrekker tents are so highly regarded for winter hot tent camping. Their combination of features make them ideal for the purpose for which they were designed, ie Winter camping. Canvas breathes and lets out moisture. In the evening, with your stove going, the moisture is driven out of your wet clothing and boot liners. Canvas is ideal for winter tents. Snowtreeker tents, as opposed to many other canvas tents, are made of lightweight, breathable canvas. My 10' x 13' Snowtrekker weighs a bit over 20 lbs. Not heavy for pulling with a toboggan and easily can sleep 4 people. Much lighter than a typical wall tent. Their tents also feature a lightweight, but heavy duty aluminum internal frame. No center pole and much fewer external tie outs. I can easily set up my 10'x13' tent alone . The internal frame goes along the vertical corners and across the top, taking up no space and gives you plenty of vertical and horizontal places to hang clothing and gear for drying. Heavy duty door zipper intended for winter use. I've never had a snag or a frozen zipper on my Snowtrekker tent. Sewn in snow flaps around the base of the tent eliminates the need for staking out, but it also has staking points if needed or desired. I do a lot of camping in the fall, when it's cold, but no snow is on the ground. I tuck the snow flaps into the tent and stake it out. I use a canvas tarp for the floor during these outings. Air/smoke vents near the top of the tent on both ends. The inside of all of their tents have lots of steep vertical walls providing much more usable inside space than a lot of other designs (like tipi's) and the vertical walls prevent snow buildup and shed snow easily. The location of the wood stove is near the front door which is an ideal location. You can pile wood up just inside the door and the location leaves the center of the tent open for use as a living space. In my opinion, Snowtrekker tents are the best designed winter tents available and provide great shelter in all seasons. They are worth every penny. The last photo was taken through the upper vent, during the memorable snow storm of 2018 (?) at the Winter Camping Symposium. |
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WanderingWoodsmanMN |
Wow- some great thoughts and info here. Still digesting it all but I was looking at the Snowtrekker tents and uffda they don't come cheap! Lots of interesting options though and things to think through. Thank you to all who have given their thoughts and of course, more are welcome! It will take a spell to pull the trigger on next steps here. Will probably keep on cold tenting it this winter until I can think through the right set up. But isn't that half the fun? Nothing like winter camping! |
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Kawishiwashy |
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SurlyDude |
Pinetree: "What is your total weight going into the BWCA on the sled?" Not sure if you were talking to me or not. I have an 11' Black River toboggan... it's pretty much jam packed on my trips, but I've never weighed it. I usually don't have the stove on my sled either. But we pack a bunch of things I think I could skip if I was going solo - I usually have 3 wool thick wool blankets for the floor on my sled which are very heavy and bulky, big bait cooler and wouldn't have group food. Currently planning my first solo winter trip with a stove - I have went in December before and cold camped. I have a nylon hammock hot tent that I will be using for the first time in lieu of the Snowtrekker.... but I think if push came to shove I could bring the Snowtrekker if the temps were going to be extreme and make it all fit on my toboggan. |
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bobbernumber3 |
Gadfly: "Although I used a snow trekker for a dozen or so years I haven't used it in about 4 years. For someone who has a priority in fishing I have found the pop up shelter works best for myself. It is a bit heavier than a snow trekker but holds heat much better, sets up in a fraction of the time and allows me to camp in the middle of a lake if I would like. I pair it with a four dog ti stove which is about half the weight of a Kni-co stove. Might not be for everybody but I don't see myself going back at this point. " Does a cot fit into your pop-up shelter?? |
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Gadfly |
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SurlyDude |
Gadfly: "I use the Helinox Cot One with legs and it fits inside the eskimo fatfish 949I with room to spare. My other shelter is a quickfish 3I and it will fit but you have to angle it a little which I don't mind because I only use that shelter on solo trips." Did you make your own stove jacks for your pop-ups? I bought one that fits in my 2 man eskimo shelter and the jack is 9"x9" which is a little smaller than the removable window, but I think it will work just fine. That shelter goes from a 2 man to a small 1 man with a wood stove in there! So, I also want a jack for the 13"x13" window on the quickfish 3 when I am not soloing. Can't find one out there that is that big. I think it would be a pretty easy sewing job - just don't know what kind of material is best. Anyone out there that has made one, that could give me some advice on what the best material is and where you've been able to find it? Thanks! |
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Gadfly |
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WanderingWoodsmanMN |
Gadfly: "I had someone from the winter camping symposium site make me one that fits the 13x13 window. I think I paid $25-$30 for it. I am a big DIY guy but when it comes to sewing I'm willing to pay someone to do it for me. " Wow- that is pretty awesome! I am actually looking at replacing the exact same stove pipe jack window for my insulated pop up tent. Any chance that person would be willing to do another one? |
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Minnesotian |
Snowtrekker sells stove jacks for DIY tents. Don't know the size of them, but might be worth a call. Snowtrekker Stove Jack |
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Jaywalker |
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bobbernumber3 |
SurlyDude: "With this particular setup going on the ice figured I might have to use the spark arrestor since it might be harder to get out of the wind. " With this set up (horizontal stack) AND a spark arrestor, I think you will have a serious draw problem... no air flow. |
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Gadfly |
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SurlyDude |
Gadfly: "I believe you will get a better draw if you can get that pipe to run a little more vertical as well. My only caution with the spark arrestor is to make sure it's not knocking sparks down onto your tent. I had my SnowTrekker on about 15 trips with my original stove that did not have a spark arrestor and never had a single burn in the tent. When I got my Four Dog stove it came with an arrestor and the first time I used it I had 5 or 6 burn marks in my tent. I noticed what was happening was the arrestor was knocking the sparks out of the hot air flow going up and then they were falling down right on the tent. It also clogged up pretty good and needed to be cleaned once a day or so. I stopped using it and haven't had any issues since but this is just my experience. " I will definitely try and get a more vertical rise in the pipe. It's not a problem on my other shack where I can 45 the pipe, but this shack the window was the right height for this setup. Potential issues with it noted though. Totally agree on the spark arrestor. The first couple trips we went on with our snowtrekker we used it and often had problem with the stove drawing well (even when clean). I am not sure we have actually used it once in our last 5 years of tripping. With this particular setup going on the ice figured I might have to use the spark arrestor since it might be harder to get out of the wind. |
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WanderingWoodsmanMN |
For years I have been winter camping and just using my 3 season tent with a warm bag, hand/foot warmers, etc. However- am now considering going the hot tent route. Obviously this is a big expense to get a nice set up, but if I am going to do this I want to do it right. I would sometimes be using this near a vehicle but would hope to find something light enough to include on the pulk sled and take into the BWCA. Would usually have anywhere from 1-5 people on a trip but the more space the better of course. I am sure there are tons of tent and stove options out there but if there are any recommendations that would be greatly appreciated! Not sure I will have all of this decided and purchased this winter but thought I would get the ball rolling with this nice chilly weather here and an ice fishing/camping trip coming up in a few weeks! Thanks all! |
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Minnesotian |
Generally speaking, there are two avenues of thinking when it comes to winter tents: a tent made from canvas or a tent made from nylon. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Of the canvas tents, which Snowtrekker Tents are considered the best, you will get a breathable fabric that is really pleasant to live in. But, depending on size, canvas can be heavy. I own a 12x12 Snowtrekker (old one) and I really like it, but it is really heavy and kind of a bear to get on the sled and into the BWCA. Of the nylon tents, there are a bunch of suppliers, but Seek Outside is well regarded. Dave and Amy Freeman lived in one in their year spent in the BWCA. They are really lightweight being made from nylon, but not breathable. What that means is that the moisture that builds up inside has a tendency to freeze up over night (if you don't run your stove overnight which is advisable) and then it "rains" on you when you fire up the stove in the morning. I own a nylon tent that I converted and I find I just have to be a bit more aware of the early morning shower around my sleeping bag. There are plenty of other advantages/disadvantages but generally speaking fabric choice is usually the first decision to be made. A good idea is to "try before you buy." To that extent, there are a couple of outfitters for the BWCA that rent out Snowtrekker tents. |
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bobbernumber3 |
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Soggyfeet |
This is the tent I bought. Although it says it holds four people, I think 2 max with the stove (I was a little concerned about my sleeping bag sliding off my cot and touching the stove). It's perfect for one person with a cot and a stove. Material and construction seem good, and set up is pretty easy (10 minutes). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PNWP62J/ This is the cheapest stove I could find on Amazon. I've had it going a couple of times in and out of the tent. It's sturdy and looks like it will hold up. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09MW4FFBV/ Both the tent and stove are pretty light and pack up small. Overall, I'm happy so far with my purchases. They seem worthy of a several day winter trip in the BWCA. The whole set up was about the same cost of a few days of rental from an outfitter. |
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Whichwaysnorth2 |
We got a Wally World special 10x12 tent, weighs 90lbs. It was cheap $250 total. Then decided to get a stove that would last. We went with the Kni-co Alaskan. Our thought is, the stove will hold it's value and is a VERY good stove. The tent is something to cut our teeth in. Learn the sport, the nuances, and how we will use it. From there we can decide what we want for a tent more accurately. |
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WanderingWoodsmanMN |
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Arcola |
When I was a Kid in the 70's, we packed food, ground sheet, pad, and a -20 bag and camped ALOT with no tent. All methods and styles have their pros and cons. There is no such thing as a perfect tent, I've looked. |
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MidwestFirecraft |
WanderingWoodsmanMN: "Hah, boy howdy if I could find a used setup that would be the way to go! I have a feeling folks hang onto this type of gear for a long time once they have it ready to go. If you know of a used tent and stove let me know! Thanks much." I purchased both my Snowtrekker tents used off of forums. It is possible, you just need to be patient and diligent on checking every day. Good luck with your search. As a side note, I rented a Snowtekker for my first winter camp and it and the stove were beat to hell. I still got the idea of what the setup would be like, but it certainly isn't the same as having well maintained gear. |
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WanderingWoodsmanMN |
The tent is currently set up in the back yard and the wood stove is assembled- hoping to do a first test burn this weekend! The whole setup cost maybe $300 or so if I remember. Well maybe $325 as I did buy a small carbon monoxide detector and fire extinguisher with it. Hoping the test burn goes well and excited to take it out solo this winter! |
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ChadW |
My plan this year is to rent a Snowtrekker and try it out. Still pricey to rent ($60/night listed on Piragis), but I figure a good investment to decide if I really want it enough to buy one. |
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SurlyDude |
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Pinetree |
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SurlyDude |
I have enough welding blankets for some future stove jacks too. I have an Eskimo Outbreak 650... which is an awesome pop-up but it's an absolute monster and basically takes up my entire toboggan, so it would probably need to be a car or side by side trip. |
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AlexanderSupertramp |
SurlyDude: "Well test run in backyard with the Eskimo Quikfish 3i went great! Sewing was a challenge - probably because I was using a machine that wasn't quite as heavy duty as needed, but with some cursing got it done. Now bring on some good ice! You're probably already ahead of me on this but I would most certainly add or angle that pipe upwards or you could have some issues. |
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IAWoodsman117 |
SurlyDude: "Well test run in backyard with the Eskimo Quikfish 3i went great! Sewing was a challenge - probably because I was using a machine that wasn't quite as heavy duty as needed, but with some cursing got it done. Now bring on some good ice! Oh my lord this is incredible. You’d have to Jerry rig a massive ice fishing sled with anyone of some kind but that looks incredible! I love my Outbreak 350! |
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AlexanderSupertramp |
I've decided I need something new to do in the winter and since I moved to Duluth 2.5 years ago I have been dying to get into winter camping up North. After telling myself at this exact time last year that I would spend the next Summer collecting gear... I didn't. So here I am again right before Winter with no hot tent. It will only ever be my and my dog and I'll probably only be doing 1-2 night trips on weekends and ease my way into longer trips. I save my vacation days for the Summer trips (for now), though deep down I really enjoy winter more. Used market is pretty bleak, I have searched high and low to no avail. I called SnowTrekker, they said it's a 6+ week lead time right now for 8x10s. They have a 9x11.5 basecamp available but would that just be too big for myself and my dog? Would I even notice the 24 extra square feet? Cost penalty is $500 more, and it's 9lbs heavier than the 8x10 Shortwall. Anyone here do weekend solos in a 9.5x11Basecamp? |
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ppine |
I have never taken it on a canoe trips. It is pretty large and heavy, but I have packed it with mules on horse trips. If water is still flowing, it is usually not too cold. We did one canoe trip in Feb in the desert on the Colorado River above Yuma, AZ. Frost every night and it was hard to build a fire. I have used a Whelen lean to on many trips with a fire in front. It works well even in the snow on winter trips. It is nylon and very light. Now I am 73 and don't take the cold so well, but I still set up the wall tent in the back yard even in winter. Great fun to sit with friends around the stove and cook with Dutch Ovens on a fire. |
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Gadfly |
WanderingWoodsmanMN: "Gadfly: "I had someone from the winter camping symposium site make me one that fits the 13x13 window. I think I paid $25-$30 for it. I am a big DIY guy but when it comes to sewing I'm willing to pay someone to do it for me. " Here is the site I bought through. I have bought several items from Chris including a top bag for my toboggan that he customized to hold my auger and a bag for my stove. I believe his contact information is on the home page. You could send a request for the stove jack and Velcro. He will just need to know if you need to Velcro hooks or loops. Stove Jack |
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SurlyDude |
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SurlyDude |
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AlexanderSupertramp |
SurlyDude: "I may be ahead of you, but not sure. Can you elaborate? Are you just talking about the distance the stove pipe is away from the shack? If that's what you are talking about, I have more pipe and a spark arrestor I could put on if it was windy. Or are you talking about an issue with the 90 degree turn to a flat pipe causing creosote build-ups or some other issue?" It's an issue with the wind, so yes if you have a spark arrestor I would use it almost always. Even if it's not that windy, chances of sparks blowing or drifting directly back onto the shelter are high. In general, it's best practice to have the stovepipe vertical or somewhat vertical to get the sparks and smoke up and over your tent. |
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bobbernumber3 |
AlexanderSupertramp: "...You're probably already ahead of me on this but I would most certainly add or angle that pipe upwards or you could have some issues." The issue isn't sparks, it's venting. Hot smoke rises, but doesn't travel horizontally. You will get better venting and stove operation with an upright stack. |
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SurlyDude |
AlexanderSupertramp: "SurlyDude: "I may be ahead of you, but not sure. Can you elaborate? Are you just talking about the distance the stove pipe is away from the shack? If that's what you are talking about, I have more pipe and a spark arrestor I could put on if it was windy. Or are you talking about an issue with the 90 degree turn to a flat pipe causing creosote build-ups or some other issue?" Whew. Was worried there was something I hadn't thought of. I always have the spark arrestor and could put on another section of stove pipe as well. For this run through I was trying to burn the thing as hot as possible to stress test the stove jack and just any potential hot spots on the inside where fabric might melt. I was outside most of the time so was watching wind and sparks closely. Thanks for note though - the biggest reason for posting things is to help eliminate oversights! |
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Jaywalker |
Like most gear, it can be hard to find something that works for so many situations. When I have hauled my tent and medium Kni-co stove into the BWCA i have had plenty of times I wished I had gone smaller and lighter, but I still get it there just fine even traveling solo. When i use it in situations where my car is close by, I am very happy to have all the room for myself and my dogs. If you are traveling with multiple people, you can easily break up the gear. You might also consider switching to a longer toboggan over a pulk if you need to carry more gear. In my opinion, the plastic on most premade sleds is not as slick and therefore has a higher coefficient of friction than an HDPE or UHMW-PE toboggan. One last thing to think about is that the greatest benefit of a hot tent does not come from sleeping in it. I'd say the majority of hot tenters let the stove go out and end up sleeping in the cold at least part of the night anyway. The two great benefits are having a place to go in and warm up, and a place to dry your gear. If you have a group of 4, you could always go with a somewhat smaller tent and just use it for eating and drying, and have 2 people sleep in cold tents. If you are warm when you go to bed, all your clothes and boots are bone dry, and you know someone in the hot tent will have the fire going and coffee on when you get up - sleeping in the cold is not that big of a deal. |
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MidwestFirecraft |
bobbernumber3: "When deciding between stoves, go with the larger size. You won't regret it. Tapered, nesting stove pipe is the way to go. Cribbage loser each night starts the stove in the morning." Completely agree with this! |
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Togolance |
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Togolance |
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OgimaaBines |
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Pinetree |
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MidwestFirecraft |
Togolance: "I lived a full winter on basswood in a snowtrekker and I in absolutely no way think they are the great tent everybody makes them out to be . The light 7oz. Canvas is to thin and doesn't hold heat at all. As for no floor and having flaps ,they freeze in and shred when torn out . Reliable tent and tepee makes the Teton with 10.10oz. Canvas that holds heat and has a floor . It never freezes in and the steep pitch of the roof with an excel tex fly sheds the heaviest and wettest snow. There off season deals are now. There advertised weight is ridiculous because the stakes I believe are 22lbs of it. I spent a full winter (December to April) in each and you will cut half the wood in a Teton. My current tent is what I consider the best hot tent on the planet an arctic oven. They are bulky but you can heat them with a candle. I'm using the igloo because I like to stand up and this model laughs at the winter wind in hoist bay narrows " Fair real hand review. I would argue as someone who does not live in a tent, but only winter camps I would prefer the lighter, more breathable Snowtrekker. I want a tent that Breathes well, dries my gear, and is easy to setup/take down. I did upgrade to the Alaskan which gives me 3-4 hours burn time at night. I don't particularly like it to be over 60 degrees F in the tent anyway. To each his own. |
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OgimaaBines |
Togolance: "ogimaa they didn't have the marine grade when in bought mine . I will definitely get that with the new one . I ended up with dry rot along the bottom seam . Disclaimer I lived in it for 9 years ( first winter in a house in 9 years sucks !) I did have the flame retardant treatment. " 9 years?! Well, you're the guy to ask then. Thanks for sharing your perspective and experience! |
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Soledad |
Get a big ass wall tent if you want to live in a tent all winter. |
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MidwestFirecraft |
Pinetree: "Always cold-tented. How much does the hot tent and equipment to hot tent add to your total weight?" Minimum of 50 pounds for me, though I can't really tell the difference on my sled. |
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Gadfly |
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