Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Great Lakes Adventures to Watch
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mastertangler |
quote amhacker22: "All these self-righteous people who are so incensed that a mother would do this should go suck an egg. " ah the tolerant ones........what is not truthful about a mother (or father) abdicating their paternal responsibilities? This act is just one manner of many of this type and IMO should be frowned upon because it helps lead to a demise of the civil society. Will her children not survive? I'm not saying that but all to often in our modern society people willingly take on serious responsibilities, i.e. children, and then shrug them off for their own "wants". Does that make one "self righteous" to point that out? Or does it just make one "right"? Having said that I will not condemn her, only the action she is taking. I wish her well, hope she accomplishes her goals and is returned safely to her loving family. Who is to say wether her NOT GOING would be even more detrimental for her and her family (depression, etc.)......... Yes, even talk radio listeners can be quite tolerant and open minded. |
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BeaV |
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BWPaddler |
quote BeaV: "I found this article about the rescues- I had it wrong. The first rescue was the miscommunication, the second was the serious one. OK - so don't bite your tongue... say what you think. After reading that article anyway, I'm thinking that the equipment might not have been tested enough (article says tracker and navigator interfered with each other) AND possibly she doesn't have sufficient navigation skills without her electronics? If she's primarily a racer, she wouldn't need such skills, but they'd play a big part in survival on a trip like this. Tricky time of year for anyone, no doubt about that. With the previous stories, I had not heard of her doing any kayak trips with camping, etc. Maybe she has? If not, this is a brutal way to learn... but could still work! Hoping for the best! |
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quark2222 |
quote gymcoachdon: "quote missmolly: "I drove through Chicago today. " I live in the Chicago area, and that is why I have a Kevlar canoe . . . Bulletproof! Just kidding, although I NEVER go to Chicago. Hate it. Don't even like going to the Loop on the Union Pacific commuter train. Forget about trying to park for an event in the Loop. Probably $30-$40 a day. Redcams are everywhere. Plus, unless you drive downtown on the 290, you have to pay tolls from the NW suburbs - both ways. I am so tired of watching the Chicago news on TV and having at least half of it being shootings/murders in Chicago. Nothing against guns in Illinois - It is the people that use them daily on the streets that are the problem. Mostly gangs, it seems from what I see on TV. The TV news from Chicago is mostly about the victims of crime, and most of that is in Chicago or in Cook County. 7 people murdered just yesterday on the South Side of Chicago within a 1 mile radius. One was a pregnant woman who took a bullet to the head. Tomster |
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amhacker22 |
quote thinblueline: "quote amhacker22: "All these self-righteous people who are so incensed that a mother would do this should go suck an egg. " Maybe I am a tool. Just a breathing slab of flesh that can occasionally be of great value. I'll take that any day. Now, if you called me an idiot who may listen to too much talk radio and pre-emptively refers to everyone who may disagree with them as "liberals"...I would consider that an insult. There's just no utility there! |
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QueticoMike |
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BeaV |
traci lynn article I deleted what I wanted to say about this, bite my tongue, bite my tongue,... Lessons learned I hope. |
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amhacker22 |
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JimmyJustice |
quote BeaV: "I found this article about the rescues- I had it wrong. The first rescue was the miscommunication, the second was the serious one. Thanks for the update BeaV. I have good idea what your deleted comment was. :) Hopefully she will put the next couple of weeks to good use. |
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BeaV |
Here's their Spot site: 2paddling5 |
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JimmyJustice |
As for the dilemma that Traci may have experienced (equipment interference), would that be something that would (should) have been noticeable on land or on small water while training? Or, is it something that might only show itself out on big water - long crossings? I know we don't know all the particulars of her situation, but for those of you who have used GPS, Tracker and, deck compass, either individually or in combination, anyone have an educated guess? |
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thinblueline |
quote amhacker22: "All these self-righteous people who are so incensed that a mother would do this should go suck an egg. " What a tool |
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BeaV |
"Her confusion was born of an incident earlier in the day, when her team noticed her progress tracker and GPS equipment were interfering with one another, Martin said. She was told to turn the GPS equipment off..." If it were me, I would tell my team to ""go suck some egg", I'm turning the tracker off and leaving my GPS on!" (this is assuming that I don't know how to use my deck compass, as BWP mentioned) |
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BeaV |
quote JimmyJustice: "When you zoom in, it looks like Joe and eggy have gone a long way already. :) This is from the Spot Knowledge Base page: "Other devices should be at least 12 inches from SPOT to prevent distortion of GPS coordinates and interference with message transmission" Yes, been there and seen that when I first got my Spot. Take a look at this pic of Traci's boat. The Spot is right next to the GPS. The Spot is not waterproof and is likely going to fail as soon as she gets into some waves. The deck compass is poorly fastened and is off level even under calm paddling conditions. I have the exact compass and it can get sticky if not near level. Compass needs to be firmly fastened and kept away from metal, other than that, it's fail safe. It looks like boat setup was an after thought. |
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JimmyJustice |
I don't think the spot will do much good if she and the boat are separated. Wouldn't you want to keep the spot on your person/in your pfd? |
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BeaV |
quote JimmyJustice: "I don't think the spot will do much good if she and the boat are separated. Wouldn't you want to keep the spot on your person/in your pfd? Good point. Sheriff probably wants it on the boat so when it comes time to destroy it, it'd be easier to locate. Seriously, though, I bet she has a PLB for her own safety on her person. So then the Spot not on her is not too big a deal. With the tiny size of that boat's cockpit, attaching the Spot to her PFD makes sense to keep it away from the GPS. Although, wherever the Spot is located, she has to be able see it to make sure it's sending tracking points and messages properly. |
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TomT |
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BeaV |
Joe Zellner was supposed to be a part of that but something changed. Now Joe and Peggy are doing their own thing called "2 People Paddling 5", a 6,100 mile attempt, and is set to start April 1st. 2paddling5 I know Joe and Traci come from kayak racing backgrounds and both are successful in that. I did meet Joe in Ely last year at the Great American Canoe Festival and talked about his planned trip. Liked him except he was faster than me in his sleek racing 'yak. Both adventures have satellite tracking sites so their progress can be watched, if you're interested. |
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Grandma L |
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thinblueline |
I fully expect the liberals on this site to flame me for this opinion and how I am a sexist, etc, etc... That's fine. |
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yellowcanoe |
and its just the beginning second rescue |
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Grandma L |
quote thinblueline: "I don't know. Two young boys at home who need their mother. One even asked her outright not to do it. I'm not a mother but I know there is no way on God's green earth my wife would have missed out on nearly a year of our boys' lives...on purpose. I know military women are faced with this and there isn't much they can do about it, but they are sacrificing for their nation and fellow man. To remove yourself from the needs of your children for that long of a period to accomplish a personal goal...I don't see it. When they're older, fine, set a different goal for your abilities at that time. Not "flaming". I do understand your view and it does have merit. It is their decision. The problem is , you can't go back and have a "do-over" if it turns out to have been a bad decision. |
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WhiteWolf |
and forecast to engulf more of Sag Bay--- if she can get across to Tawas area-- she should be OK-- but that is a big if. forecast for Friday the 30th at 8pm- |
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TomT |
quote thinblueline: "I don't know. Two young boys at home who need their mother. One even asked her outright not to do it. I'm not a mother but I know there is no way on God's green earth my wife would have missed out on nearly a year of our boys' lives...on purpose. I know military women are faced with this and there isn't much they can do about it, but they are sacrificing for their nation and fellow man. To remove yourself from the needs of your children for that long of a period to accomplish a personal goal...I don't see it. When they're older, fine, set a different goal for your abilities at that time. I am in agreement with you. I imagine that young boy to be pretty worried about losing his Mom too. It's her decision but she had children and she might regret missing this time with them. A 10 year old sure could use his Mom. I'm not a fan of labels though. I hate the terms liberal and conservatives. It's so black and white. What of the vast majority in the middle like myself? It's her life, her kids and her regrets. I would just wait 5 more years but that's me. |
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mastertangler |
quote thinblueline: "I don't know. Two young boys at home who need their mother. One even asked her outright not to do it. I'm not a mother but I know there is no way on God's green earth my wife would have missed out on nearly a year of our boys' lives...on purpose. I know military women are faced with this and there isn't much they can do about it, but they are sacrificing for their nation and fellow man. To remove yourself from the needs of your children for that long of a period to accomplish a personal goal...I don't see it. When they're older, fine, set a different goal for your abilities at that time. I'm with you Blue line but I will apply that standard to fathers as well.........It is the height of selfishness to take off paddling for a year while you have kids. Its unimaginable. When my daughter was born I stopped going out west on business for 2 months every year like I had always done so I could be what God called me to be........a Dad! If your not going to be a parent then don't have kids. |
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BeaV |
I hope she goes home, clears her head/heart of family obligations, fires her massive support team, renounces her failing high tech navigation, gets mad at the "authorities" whom want to deter her, and gets back on the water (well mostly liquid water). Actually, I hope she doesn't go home and instead just quietly sneaks back out on the water and does her thing. |
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WhiteWolf |
quote yellowcanoe: "not going well Looks like she hasn't moved since the 2nd rescue.- at least according to her tracking device. According to the article -- she was attempting to cross Saginaw Bay from near Port Austin and across to the NW to Tawas City area. thats about a 25 mile open water crossing that does not look like fun with the weather being like it has been in that area and forecast to be-- not counting what looks like some scary ice flows..... WAVES ARE THE SIGNIFICANT WAVE HEIGHT - THE AVERAGE OF THE HIGHEST 1/3 OF THE WAVE SPECTRUM. OCCASIONAL WAVE HEIGHT IS THE AVERAGE OF THE HIGHEST 1/10 OF THE WAVE SPECTRUM. Today NE wind around 12 kt. Partly sunny. Waves 2 to 3 ft. Tonight NE wind 10 to 12 kt. Mostly cloudy. Waves around 2 ft. Thursday E wind 13 to 16 kt. A chance of snow before noon, then a chance of rain and snow between noon and 2pm, then rain after 2pm. Waves around 3 ft. Thursday Night E wind around 19 kt, with gusts as high as 26 kt. Rain and snow, becoming all rain after 8pm. Waves 4 to 5 ft. Friday ENE wind around 16 kt. Rain likely, mainly before 8am. Waves 4 to 5 ft. Friday Night NNE wind 14 to 18 kt. A chance of rain before 2am. Waves 4 to 5 ft. Saturday NNE wind 6 to 11 kt. Mostly sunny. Waves 2 to 3 ft. Saturday Night Variable winds 5 kt or less. Partly cloudy. Waves around 1 ft. Sunday Variable winds 5 kt or less. Mostly sunny. Waves around 1 ft. |
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Basspro69 |
quote thinblueline: "I don't know. Two young boys at home who need their mother. One even asked her outright not to do it. I'm not a mother but I know there is no way on God's green earth my wife would have missed out on nearly a year of our boys' lives...on purpose. I know military women are faced with this and there isn't much they can do about it, but they are sacrificing for their nation and fellow man. To remove yourself from the needs of your children for that long of a period to accomplish a personal goal...I don't see it. When they're older, fine, set a different goal for your abilities at that time.I totally agreed with you until your last sentence. Im an independent conservative so your liberal comment doesn't apply to me, but let me just say im so incredibly sick of this political bs trolling crap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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A1t2o |
quote Basspro69: " I totally agreed with you until your last sentence. Im an independent conservative so your liberal comment doesn't apply to me, but let me just say im so incredibly sick of this political bs trolling crap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I think it is a sign of people's frustrations with the political BS that they point out that they are likely to get flamed. It also deters a lot of the flaming because it make them think twice about doing what is so expected it is borderline cliché. So don't give him too much crap for having his guard up. I'll also point out that Liberal is not the same as Democrat. The extreme feminist that would give him crap is a far left liberal viewpoint, that doesn't mean politics at all. The argument may have been carried into politics but it is not purely a political discussion. To make the two one and the same is part of what causes more of the political BS that you are so sick of. |
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yellowcanoe |
I have had family members say I should never canoe alone as it is too risky and it is selfish. I prefer to live my life as I see fit. My kids are grown and my husband in agreement. Its my life, Not yours and not theirs. |
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A1t2o |
quote yellowcanoe: "Whether to go or not to go.. is it selfish is an age old question that all solo paddlers have to wrestle with. You never disagreed that it is selfish though. It is inspiring and an adventure that people will talk about, but ultimately it is done for themselves. Family situation aside, going out in conditions where you are needing to be rescued twice and putting those rescuers at risk is very selfish and they are correct to fine her or confiscate/abandon her kayak with such reckless behavior. It is one thing to sacrifice time with your family and risk your own life, but putting others in harms way, not to mention the cost which she does not pay, is very selfish and should be punishable. I agree that you can do dangerous things because it is your own life, but you have to draw the line when you start to have a much larger impact on people other than yourself and your family. Like you said, its your life not theirs, so don't risk others too. |
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WhiteWolf |
quote A1t2o: "quote yellowcanoe: "Whether to go or not to go.. is it selfish is an age old question that all solo paddlers have to wrestle with. |
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BWPaddler |
1) Thanks BeaV for sharing these adventures. They will be interesting to follow for sure. 2) I agree that a feat like the Pointe trip is a contradiction in parenting (thanks to whoever pointed out that such a trip is a mom AND dad conflict). And to me, it doesn't seem to be an easy choice for her. She is 52. She has RA. Her mom's health situation influenced her thinking. She's framing it as "now or never" basically. And in theory, I agree that what is good for a parent and their mental health and happiness, does benefit the child(ren) as well. But it is a risk - from the perspective of what the children might need during that time, and from the perspective of survival of the parent to return to the child(ren). I don't recall much being said about the dad in the video, but I would hope he's fully able and prepared to meet the needs of the boys while she's away. *I* couldn't/wouldn't do it. But how many male explorers head off and leave their children behind with mom? Have we ever debated that ethic? Most accounts I read don't even indicate if the male explorer has any children... just sayin'. 3) what's up with her kayak? Is an open cockpit like that meant for paddling this water temperature? 4) I read the rescue article and was shocked to read that the coast guard said if they needed to rescue her again, they'd leave her boat at sea or otherwise penalize her. I GET the point, and understand the risk to rescuers from someone that keeps attempting the same thing. I've just never heard that kind of language before - are there other rescues like this where rescue team responds similarly? Making it essentially their call when it's safe? |
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Grandma L |
Good prespective on Dad-Mom explorers and Good question about the Rescue Team. I just hope she can have good weather ane make good decisions for a safe journey - that will benefit every one. |
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BeaV |
Joe is also a dealer for Stellar Kayaks so I gotta believe Joe/Traci/Stellar collaboration feel they have the right boats. Good thing about cold water is your chocolate won't melt if you leave it laying on the hull:) |
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thinblueline |
quote A1t2o: "quote Basspro69: " I totally agreed with you until your last sentence. Im an independent conservative so your liberal comment doesn't apply to me, but let me just say im so incredibly sick of this political bs trolling crap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Spot on |
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Alan Gage |
I think people who are happy and content with their lives don't have a big desire to do things like this. One thing this trip will give her is lots of time without distraction to think about things. Lots of things. One can only hope that in the end she's wrestled with some demons and come out ahead. It's entirely possible this could turn out to be a very positive thing for both her and her children. Alan |
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BnD |
quote A1t2o: "quote yellowcanoe: "Whether to go or not to go.. is it selfish is an age old question that all solo paddlers have to wrestle with. Nailed It! Biography........ I'm gonna make a series of selfish and reckless decisions but if I need rescued everyone should risk their lives and expend public resources saving my poor misguided heroic backside. PS....if I don't make it please be sure and tell my kids I did it my way without regard for their well being. I'm sure they'll understand? |
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missmolly |
As far as flirting with death, I drove through Chicago today. Those folks spit in the face of assured clear distance and stomp speed limits. |
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JimmyJustice |
It looks like both groups started/will start on Lake Huron and go clockwise around the 5 lakes. There must be some reasoning behind that...timing of ice melt, anticipated conditions on each lake during anticipated time thereon, etc. Obviously there is a lot a planning that must go into expeditions of this sort and quite a bit of back office support. Good luck to all. |
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gymcoachdon |
quote missmolly: "I drove through Chicago today. " On purpose? |
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yogi59weedr |
That'll look good on the resume... |
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yogi59weedr |
That'll look good on the resume... |
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mastertangler |
quote BeaV: "BWP- regarding your question on her surf ski kayak...I'm not knowledgeable about kayaks but I know Joe Zellner is and he is a resident of Grand Marais and knows about cold-water paddling on Lake Superior. Check out this link that discusses both his boat (the orange one) and her's. This is from when they were partners. kayaks Whoa! I have owned a Gruman aluminum...........then a plastic coleman canoe........Now I own a Bell carbon fiber solo........and a Superior Expedition (a canoe/Kayak hybrid much like a Seawind) Ahem.......I have very little experience evaluating canoes and Kayaks. But to attempt something like this in an open boat seems borderline ridiculous even to someone as inexperienced as myself. Marketing perhaps? The obvious problem as I see it is cold water. Sure the boats are probably very seaworthy but wearing cold water hour after hour is going to kick anyones posterior and that in short order. I had assumed she was paddling a traditional sea kayak and skirt. Looks like a great boat however and given the right circumstances it looks like it could really fly. I will giver her credit for being gutsy thats for sure. I am heading to Isle Royal this summer in my Expedition (Lord willing) and am going to make generous use of a water taxi to avoid stretches of harsh Lake Superior shoreline even though I have an ideal boat for big water. I remember just how cold that water is. Brrrr! |
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BWPaddler |
quote BeaV: "BWP- regarding your question on her surf ski kayak...I'm not knowledgeable about kayaks but I know Joe Zellner is and he is a resident of Grand Marais and knows about cold-water paddling on Lake Superior. Check out this link that discusses both his boat (the orange one) and her's. This is from when they were partners. kayaks I had skimmed that article before and saw they added hatches for her gear. I missed the part where it shows there is a cockpit cover available. I guess the design difference is intended to offer speed, which would be required if she's to do that distance in one year. I do wish her well! |
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BWPaddler |
quote mastertangler: "Whoa! I have owned a Gruman aluminum...........then a plastic coleman canoe........Now I own a Bell carbon fiber solo........and a Superior Expedition (a canoe/Kayak hybrid much like a Seawind) Check out the video of the boat in this article. The design does show a cover, but doesn't appear to be in use as she launched. The design sure looks different and unique, but I'm no kayak expert to judge how well it will work on a trip like that. Kayaker launch |
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BeaV |
quote JimmyJustice: "I was unable to find the article on Traci's two rescues. Saw the video of the second. Where her rescues because she was trapped by the ice?" JJ- First rescue sounded necessary. From what I read, she was attempting a big open water crossing and her navigation equipment failed. She aborted crossing and had difficulty trying to retreat and get to shore due to ice blocking her way. Sheriff department recued and claims she wouldn't have made it without their help. Second rescue was miscommunication (again sounds like maybe equipment related) between her and her shore support crew. So the second rescue was a waste of everyone's time, same sheriff's department. |