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Author	Message Text
mapsguy1955	06/24/2017 08:44AM   I think updating the video and adding a more inclusive questionnaire would be perfect. I'm certain they could create a database of people that have already seen it so we wouldn't have to see it every year.
mapsguy1955	06/24/2017 08:44AM   I think updating the video and adding a more inclusive questionnaire would be perfect. I'm certain they could create a database of people that have already seen it so we wouldn't have to see it every year.
MikeinMpls	06/24/2017 09:34AM   quote mapsguy1955: "I think updating the video and adding a more inclusive questionnaire would be perfect. I'm certain they could create a database of people that have already seen it so we wouldn't have to see it every year. " Devise a questionnaire that the group fills out together, not the trip leader. Rather than questions, offer vignettes that require the group to solve, even if the group is two. That way every person is involved and invested in thinking about what is OK and what is not OK, based on the video they just watched. Yes, more labor intensive for the USFS permit offices, but maybe it would make people behave more appropriately in the long run. Mike
Savage Voyageur	06/24/2017 09:35AM   Our outfitter knows us and just gives us a breif rule talk, that's all. Last time for the video was 2 years ago. It is hit and miss on the video. A few don't gave a tv to watch the video, just pictures in an album to look at.
luft	06/24/2017 04:37AM   Watched the video in May at Sawbill Outfitters. They have us watch it each and every time we trip through them. Last year Tofte Ranger station gave us a quiz on the video. Our middle son's name is Trace so when ever the say "leave no Trace" we all hug him and tell him we would never leave him behind. Even at 17 years old this joke never gets old for the rest of us.
Grizzlyman	06/24/2017 06:12AM   Last tine was 2009
bpneiman	06/23/2017 06:45AM   I haven't been to the BWCA since 2009. I'm looking forward to watching it with the 3 newbies I am bringing. It will bring back fond memories of my first trip with my son.
AmarilloJim	06/23/2017 07:10AM   On Spring trips lately I have been taking Scouts and newbies. We watch the videos at our first planning meeting and then I have the outfitters present again just before departure. I think the kids listen a little more to the outfitter than to a parent or scout leader.
hooky	06/23/2017 07:17AM   3 trips in 3 years with 3 video views. All trips have been out of the same outfitter though, Sawbill.
BobDobbs	06/23/2017 07:19AM   was required to watch it when picking up permit from Sawbill. not required to watch it at other partners. I agree with other posters who state that it's not going to change any behavior - retards gonna act like retards.
4keys	06/23/2017 07:28AM   It has been 20 years since I saw the video which I think was at a ranger station, but thanks to basecampmom, I just saw it again. We usually pick up our permit at an outfitters, and they generally ask if we've seen the video, and when we say we've seen it, they say ok.
timatkn	06/23/2017 07:46AM   I've been made to watch the video either at the FS station in Ely or at an outfitter every time usually at Voyageur North. A little disconcerting at hearing how many get to bypass it... 2 years ago my 5 and 8 year sons had to take the quiz at the FS station...verbally. My very first trip was with Cliff Wold and he made us all watch it, it really made an impression I am the only guy that came back but almost 20 years later my buddies still bring up leave no trace. The old video was hilarious...the part of how to deal with bears...in the video the old couple was hanging out and the bear wanders in so far it looked like the couple was going to deal him into the card game before they re-acted :) T
paddlinjoe	06/23/2017 08:42AM   That is a really good question. It is clear that some outfitters and rangers hold closer to the rule than others. I'm having a difficul time coming up with a numbe as I enjoy the shoulder season so am often self-issuing a day permit, or likewise am getting a permit for the last day or two of the season. That said, of the times when I should have been asked to watch the video, I'm guessing I've been asked to 75% of the time. Included in that though is times when I've brought new people, and have made sure they watch it for reference.
2old4U	06/23/2017 10:46AM   Haven't watched it since the early 90's. In fact, I've been to the BWCA so many times they don't even make me get a permit any more...just wave me on through;)
HowardSprague	06/23/2017 11:44AM   As far as I can remember, have watched the video every time at VNO. I always paid close attention to it as well. My friend Jerry, well, ..maybe not as much.
jcavenagh	06/23/2017 01:24PM   August 2008 at VNO. But I have only been to BW/Q once since then, so, there's that.
nicek	06/23/2017 05:49PM   My children have the film memorized after several trips. Always watch it with them and any rookie I bring to the park. It should be revised and it should be absolutely mandatory!
TominMpls	06/22/2017 02:23PM   Last saw it in 2002. Was a little distressed to realize that my daughter has never seen it. So I guess we'll watch it next week at the ranger station.
Spartan2	06/22/2017 02:39PM   Every time. I don't know when they first had a film, then a video, as we started canoe-tripping in 1971 and I know they didn't have one back then. But for decades we have seen the video. And the last few times we did trips we told them we had been going for more than 40 years, but we still had to watch the video. At Ranger Station in Ely. At Sawbill. At Clearwater Lodge. At Rockwood Lodge. I believe those are the most recent. Usually had to answer a little "quiz", too. It never bothered me to do it.
AdamXChicago	06/22/2017 02:44PM   I would guess about a decade ago
pswith5	06/22/2017 03:28PM   If I use outfitter i feel I am much less likely to have to watch it. Probably 8 out of 10 at ranger station. Lately I have been bringing newbs so I watch it with them. It's only an extra 10 minutes so why not.?
Spartan2	06/22/2017 03:43PM   We have never used an outfitter, but we have often picked up our permit at one. Usually when we were staying there the night before, with Clearwater as an example. These threads always astound me, as we are always asked to view the video, and we certainly don't look like newbies.
1bogfrog	06/22/2017 04:13PM   We always pick up our permit at Sawbill, regardless of our entry point, and the video always gets watched. To the point that we can recite sections of it verbatim, right down to the classic line "Do it firmly. You will both be better off.". Our daughter has referred to it since small childhood as the "Don't Poke the Bears" video. But all joking aside, it has done its job. And a trip wouldn't really feel like a trip without watching it.
Jaywalker	06/22/2017 04:30PM   Last month at the Ely ranger station I was asked if I had been to the BWCA before I said it was I think my 21st trip. The ranger issued me a "Knows The Rules" card allowing me to skip the video and rule review - just get the permit and go. I felt really cool, as if Telly Savalas had just handed me a Player's Card (if you are old enough to remember that). I last saw the video at the Tofte Station last July, my first canoe trip of last year. A month later on my second trip, the Cook Station knew I had just seen it and skipped the video but did briefly hit all the rules with me. Card or not, I'll watch the video once a year to see if anything has changed. I kind of like the video, and I'll happily put my fish guts anywhere they want.
h20	06/22/2017 05:11PM   watch it......might reignite some brain waves.
mutz	06/22/2017 07:26PM   We have used the same outfitter long enough that he knows us all by name, if we have someone new with us he has them watch it and every once in awhile he tells us to grab a beer and all of us watch it. Never hurts to watch it again and there are a few laughs.
Atb	06/22/2017 07:36PM   I'm commonly asked to watch it. At VNO, various rangers. I suspect the vandals that have been getting attention lately may not even be in on a permit.
Mocha	06/22/2017 07:28PM   oh, Mr. Barley,... you two looked like you needed to see it! as a "cooperator" of the Forest Service, outfitters sign an agreement that is multi-page about what our responsibilities include. visitor education is near the top of the list and it was to either show the video or verbally review rules using a flip-book. No cooperator wants to lose their priviledge to issue permits, it would put a business out of business pretty quickly. So, Mr. B and Mooseplums, yes, you had to watch the video. if i remember you also got free pancakes with the staff during "quality check" time. i'm no longer an outfitter but would be more than happy to watch the video and take the quiz. as an aside, i stood in a ranger station one day and watched as 5 different parties showed up for their permits. None watched the video, none took the quiz, none were given the option of the video. one leader had to produce his ID to prove he was the person on the permit. needless to say, i was a bit miffed by this. this all took place in about 20 minutes time.
LindenTree3	06/22/2017 07:52PM   Kinda funny, When I did my last solo in the BW (2014) before moving to AK, I got my permit from the Ranger station in Cook. I told him I worked for the United States Fish and Wildlife Refuge's, the ranger gave me a pass on the video. But when I did a trip with my wife in 2007 the Ranger (Char) at the Isabella Work Station made me watch it. I was engine captain of engine 672 out of Isabella from 2000-2003, so I thought it was a little excessive, ( i worked with Char that entire time) since I had seen the video many times when people would come to the work station to get their permit. However in retrospect the Ranger (Char) at Isabella probably rembered how messy my desk was when I used to work there, and figured I needed to watch the video. ;-) Don't know, but Char (RIP) was a special gal.
BasecampMom	06/22/2017 08:33PM   For everyone's viewing pleasure! There - now you can all say - you saw the video again today!
HighPlainsDrifter	06/22/2017 08:19PM   I watch it every time. I have picked up permits at Ranger Stations in Ely, GM, Tofte and I think even the Isabella work station. I Also have picked up permits at VNO, Tuscarora, Sawbill, Piragis Northwoods, and Clearwater. My opinion about folks that trash campsites is that they would continue their ways with or without having watched a video. The seeds for respecting other people and the land are sown at an early age and these folks are now set in their ways. They waltz through life with a chip on their shoulder and a "hurrah for me to hell with you" attitude.
andym	06/23/2017 02:58AM   We usually pick up the permit at the ranger station in Ely and watch if we are with people who haven't been before. Otherwise a friendly chat with the rangers in which you seem knowledgeable seems to satisfy them.
mastertangler	06/23/2017 12:59PM   Video? What video? I don't remember no video!
airmorse	06/22/2017 12:23PM   With all the talk of trashed campsites and people needing to be rescued, I'd like to ask a few questions. We are all "supposed to" watch the video when we pick up our permits, but I'd like to know when was the last time you saw the video, and was it at a ranger station or Co-op. If you have not seen the video lately when was the last time you were instructed to watch it. You do not have to specify which ranger station or Co-op. It is hit and miss for us. Some years we are instructed to watch the video other years we are issued our permit and sent on our way. We always pick up our permits at a ranger station.
cowdoc	06/22/2017 01:07PM   I've watched it every year....Ranger Station or outfitters. Most of those (outfitters) were at Tuscarora, last outfitter was Gunflint.......and these were people I knew quite well and I still watched the video cuz they wanted me too, and I was happy to oblige. Ranger Station always.
cowdoc	06/22/2017 01:07PM   I've watched it every year....Ranger Station or outfitters. Most of those (outfitters) were at Tuscarora, last outfitter was Gunflint.......and these were people I knew quite well and I still watched the video cuz they wanted me too, and I was happy to oblige. Ranger Station always.
A1t2o	06/22/2017 01:14PM   Honestly, I have never seen the video. My buddy that picks up the permit can pretty much quote the whole thing though. We all know the rules and video or not we make sure to keep them.
Soledad	06/22/2017 01:15PM   When I have my kiddos with me, we watch it. Other trips are usually during self-permit dates so no video.
JimmyJustice	06/22/2017 01:20PM   Watched it last year at VNO with the scouts I had along.
HighnDry	06/22/2017 06:11PM   Every year. I was able to get a "experience BWCA-er" card from the USFS about two summers ago -- they do have them --- after I spoke to a couple of rangers and answered the LNT principles correctly on the back of the permit (without looking at them :).
LuvMyBell	06/22/2017 06:07PM   I've been tripping in the BWCA every year since 1999. I've never once been asked to sit down and watch the Video, but have done so on several occasions on my own, online. We own our own canoes and gear but always have picked up our permits at several outfitters because we usually spend the first night in a bunkhouse or cabin. I've never visited a ranger station and have never seen a ranger in the BWCA.
DougD	06/22/2017 06:39PM   I'm usually with a large group of kids/teenagers and regardless of outfitter or ranger station they always have us watch it. The one time I got to do a solo they asked if I wanted to see it, I passed.
mr.barley	06/22/2017 06:49PM   An outfitter once made me and Mooseplums watch it a few years back and she's known us forever. Might have been a power trip over us.....hahahaha. My son has been on numerous trips and it just occurred to me that he has never seen it.
SaganagaJoe	06/22/2017 09:33PM   Saw it the first time and haven't been asked to watch it since. Brought my friend on his first trip and they made him watch it while I settled the bill. Outfitter. I would watch it again if asked to. It's a small price to pay for the cleanliness of our wilderness.
Rob Johnson	06/22/2017 10:59PM   Tuscarora Outfitters every time. VNO same. I didn't think this was even negotiable. This is where I picked up on the suggestion for no logs bigger than your wrist. It isn't a rule it is a suggestion and it cuts down on the lumberjacking required.
MikeinMpls	06/22/2017 12:35PM   I haven't watched the video in over a decade, maybe longer. Right or wrong, I go up to the desk, give my name, and respectfully say this (or some version of this): "I've been up here over 50 times. Can I please be excused from the video?" So far, it's worked every time. I always get the little pass card for my next trip so I can just pick up my permit and go. I've gotten the feeling the rangers in the permit issuing stations have been given a lot of leeway in requiring the film to be shown. Mike
dew042	06/22/2017 12:37PM   Haven't watched it in a quite a while, that said, I doubt a video would stop or curtail the behavior we've seen. Clearly these people have no common sense and feel entitled in everything they do. I'd guess these are the same people who throw trash out their car windows and I get to clean it up off my front yard. Daniel
treehorn	06/22/2017 02:23PM   Outfitter made us watch it in 2000, my first trip in. Didn't go back again until 5 years ago. 4 trips in since then, 3 different outfitters, none have made us watch it. I have watched it voluntarily on YouTube fairly recently though. More for a laugh than anything...the part where they chase the bear out of camp is awesome!
HangLoose	06/22/2017 03:07PM   I have been bwca tripping for 30 years. I've used 5 different outfitters on all corners of the wilderness. I don't think I have been asked to watch the video in at least 20 years. I actually asked an outfitter recently if I could watch it just to show my wife the "infamous" LNT video. Most of the outfitters get to know me and know that I know what I'm doing and that I embrace the LNT policy but I wouldn't at all be offended if they required me to watch it anyways. Good thread!
TwoByGreenCanoe	06/22/2017 03:23PM   16+ trips and have only watched it twice while picking up a permit. On line numerous times. Leave No Trace
mr.barley	06/22/2017 06:49PM   Mocha made me and Mooseplums watch it a few years back and she's known us forever. Might have been a power trip over us.....hahahaha. My son has been on numerous trips and it just occurred to me that he has never seen it.
GraniteCliffs	06/22/2017 07:02PM   Perhaps 1982