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11/29/2018 10:21PM |
Marten: "Been heating my home 100% of the time with wood for forty years in northern Illinois with Vermont castings Defiant. You will need an airtight stove with good capacity. "
An excellent stove. I've been heating my house with it for 23 years, but mine is now worn out, falling apart inside around where the catalyst used to be, and the air intake control is broken.
I need to replace the stove, but am not sure what with.
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11/24/2018 11:55AM |
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11/24/2018 09:23PM |
Second was a German made "kachelofen (spelling likely incorrect). Hated that one, but the price was right. Had it in a 2400 square foot house. Fire box way too small.
Next house was about 3,000 square feet, and bought a Vermont Castings Resolute Acclaim. Liked that one a lot, had it for close to 25 years until it finally warped too much and I could not control the flame well any more. It would not keep a fire going all night though, even when it was new.
Bought a Hearthstone Phoenix new this last summer (model is discontinued) for the 3,000 square foot house, and it is the closest I've gotten to having a stove being able to last all night. I really don't try to have any stove going all night though, as it produces too much creosote when you burn a stove all night, and I really don't think it is safe to do so. The Hearthstone is a frickin' tank. Weighs about 425 lbs, and it is the heaviest duty woodstove I've owned in the last 45 years. The castings are double the thickness of the Vermont Castings stove I had and the new VC I was looking at. I like that it has an easily replaceable firebrick interior lining. Could have a better air control range, and a better means of ditching the ashes, but neither is a big deal once you get used to it.
I really did like my Fisher stove. The Baby Bear was the smallest one they made. They also made a Mama Bear model and a larger one. You can find them on E-bay. They cost used about as much as a new stove would cost, but they are kick-ass stoves, and would likely out last anything you could buy today.
Tomster
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11/25/2018 02:23PM |
My chimney is pretty simple, out and up as seen in picture below. Airmorse stated he controls both the intake and exhaust. I have always used exhaust. In the cook stove I can close a damper to push the hot air around the oven and that puts out additional heat and also controls the burn. I don't have a damper on the stove pipe. Would that be beneficial with a conventional wood stove? Or would that just be duplicating what the stove does? Maybe a dumb question but does the damper on most wood stoves control the intake, exhaust or both? In an airtight stove with an external intake, is there an advantage to controlling the intake vs the exhaust?
Ben, I am going to have to contract you to come supervise the install. :-)
As you can see by the picture below, it is pretty drafty underneath. I am guessing the cook stove is about 50% efficient at best. I know I sure went through a lot of wood this year.
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11/26/2018 08:02AM |
I recently did my homework on these heat reclaimers and came to the conclusion they act just like a damper, which is not good, and an uncontrolled damper at that. I'm a firm believer in not obstructing your stove pipe with anything as a good draft is the key to a good burn. Been heating my living place(s) with wood all my life, minus college.
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11/24/2018 04:06PM |
Good luck finding your stove! You have a great looking cabin. I envy you!
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11/29/2018 01:32PM |
Use the cook stove when you like.
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11/30/2018 04:39PM |
andym: "Even if you don't insulate under the house, consider some wood sheathing around the outside of the foundation to keep cold air from blowing underneath. That can make a lot of difference. Our cabin has that plus some gravel up against the siding to keep air flow down, allow water to seep out as it goes downhill, and also keeps animals from under the cabin."
This entirely. Even if you don't do the job 100%, every little bit of insulation helps. You could spray in insulation wherever you can reach then just use rugs and carpeting to add a little more insulation in the center. Preventing drafts helps a lot too. You could always pay a neighbor kid to crawl under the cabin for you too.
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11/30/2018 07:59PM |
arctic: "Marten: "Been heating my home 100% of the time with wood for forty years in northern Illinois with Vermont castings Defiant. You will need an airtight stove with good capacity. "
An excellent stove. I've been heating my house with it for 23 years, but mine is now worn out, falling apart inside around where the catalyst used to be, and the air intake control is broken.
I need to replace the stove, but am not sure what with."
Might want to ask a dealer about replacement parts.
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11/29/2018 09:17PM |
riverrunner: "Keep the cook stove put in a pellet stove for heat.
Use the cook stove when you like.
"
I wish I had the room to keep both. I really have no interest in a pellet stove. I like putting up my own wood. The pellet stove might be more functional but really lacks style. :-)
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11/29/2018 09:29PM |
mikedmarsh1: "I'll throw in my two cents. I've been burning wood in a variety of wood stoves and open fireplaces for decades.
Nctry makes a very good point that is very worth taking note of and that is the temperature at which creosote will condense out of smoke. Typically in a chimney/flue, the smoke continues as a gas until it reaches that point where it strikes or passes a surface that is below that condensation temperature. Then it deposits tiny specs of creosote that build up over time.
In a cold flue, this can happen anywhere along the entire length. Once the fire gets established this point is moved up to and sometimes out of the flue. Most frequently, the condensation spot becomes the place where the flue clears the structure and is exposed directly to the cold outside temperatures. If the fire is hot enough and the gas remains above 220 degrees, creosote does not condense out of the smoke onto the sides of your flue.
In an effort to make wood stoves more efficient (i.e. produce the most heat that is possible while burning as little wood as possible) they have provided mechanisms (dampers) to throttle back the speed of the fire. This makes it possible for users to get the maximum BTU's out of the wood that is burnt.
That is all well and good as we like to be efficient with our wood. However, by dampering down the speed of the fire, we essentially cool the smoke(gas) that leaves the fire. The fire lasts longer that way. The downside is that it creates greater opportunity for the smoke to hit the point where it can condense as creosote on the sides of the chimney. That also creates greater opportunity for chimney fires. For efficient wood stoves / fires, frequent cleaning is critical. I've even seen chimneys that get nearly 100% choked shut by creosote (coke) buildup.
I have two wood stoves in my current house. One is a furnace-type in the basement. The other is a fireplace insert in my living room. I have adopted the mindset that I keep the intake dampers pretty much open. This does mean that I have to re-stock the fire more often and it usually means that most of the coals are gone by morning. Sometimes I have to start from scratch in the morning with a new fire. Sometimes, I have enough coals that will start kindling.
By keeping a hotter fire, I am able to keep my chimney much cleaner than I could if I was being totally efficient with my wood consumption. I feel that the peace of mind of knowing that I have a clean flue offsets the fact that I burn more wood each winter than I might need to. (It also gives me more reason to cut, split and stack more wood each year which is one of my most favorite things to do.)
Again, this is my two cents. I sometimes have to laugh at myself at how obsessed with firewood, wood burning and enjoying fires I must appear to others. I always look forward to the first cool evenings when "a fire will feel good tonight!"
"
I am not too worried about creosote buildup. If you look at the picture I have a very simple flue, out and up with a cleanout at the bottom. It is an easy chore to clean. My cook stove did burn hot, It had lots of venting from the bottom via the ash bucket and it was not air tight in any way. I could really go through a lot of wood with that thing. But probably the biggest reason I have for getting rid of it is safety.
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11/25/2018 01:07AM |
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11/24/2018 08:58AM |
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11/24/2018 06:28PM |
Pine is good kindling and campfire wood. Haha. Most chimney fires are unseasoned wood or pine.
Those soap stone stoves are so nice!
One more note on oak... it’s hard on your truck if it lands across the bed. But easy to cut like that. And your truck is a conversation piece then. How I know that, I don’t know...
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12/10/2018 06:05PM |
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12/02/2018 09:43AM |
If you see an Atlanta Homesteader anywhere ....yes! Atlanta stove works closed up but look used in good shape. Some still around. Lily comes to mind too. A stove lined with firebrick is a good thing. A tight stove with the white rope seals are nice to regulate. And personally I don't want a stove without the pipe damper. The one halfway up the stovepipe with the coiled wire "knob". YOU can regulate the burn be it windy or foggy/drizzle.
A chimney brush once a year does me ok. No green wood. No wet wood. A handfull of course or rock salt tossed on a HOT fire helps keep flu clean too.
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11/25/2018 03:42PM |
Using a damper in the stove pipe I always thought was used mainly to keep some of the heat from going up the chimney. I have a concern with using a damper, especially in a stove that has a lot of air leaks. If you close down the damper to keep more heat in or to control the burn, you have a chance for carbon monoxide to enter the cabin. If you use a draft control it lessons that chance by controlling the amount of air to the fire. that will cause less smoke going up the chimney.
If you look at all new stove installations none have anything to control the exhaust. At least out here. I don't know about back there. Also, as you mentioned in your original post, if you shut down the damper the stove will smoke. Same with most any stove that has air leaks.
Controlling the intake has worked better. And again I don't like trying to control or hold back the exhaust. That has the carbon monoxide in it. Ben will be more familiar with what is best for your country. Hope this helps. Larry
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11/25/2018 07:59PM |
I was really interested about adding mass to the woodburner to retain heat. Need to look into that further. Thanks for posting!
Safe travels all.......Mike
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11/29/2018 09:42PM |
A1t2o:
I really think you should consider insulating if you are on a budget. That way you can turn down the air flow to make it last a little longer then the cabin will also retain the heat for longer. You could probably do a pretty good job of it if you sprayed foam insulation under the floor. Insulation is cheaper than upgrading the stove and works really well.
"
Yeah, I have thought about insulating. That would be a bigger job than it looks. Crawling around under that thing isn't a lot of fun. It used to sit closer to the ground but after getting flooded a couple of times I lifted it up.
With the cook stove I really knew how to operate it and get the most out of it. It sounds like with any stove I get I will have to do the same. Figure out what works best.
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11/30/2018 08:27PM |
hobbydog: "
I am not too worried about creosote buildup. If you look at the picture I have a very simple flue, out and up with a cleanout at the bottom. It is an easy chore to clean. My cook stove did burn hot, It had lots of venting from the bottom via the ash bucket and it was not air tight in any way. I could really go through a lot of wood with that thing. But probably the biggest reason I have for getting rid of it is safety. "
Yeah, you can usually catch it and clean it if you realize it is a problem. And your not living up there. Guys that live in cabins are a strange bunch. Haha.
I sorta forget why sometimes creosote glazes on so well. But I have a spray that when sprayed on the fire, turns it to a form that turns it to a cleanable form.
Wow, I’m trying to type but keep falling asleep and it isn’t eight. I gotta move.... haha!
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11/24/2018 07:36AM |
One thing I would say is I wouldn't get my stove from Menards. Paying not that much more would get you something like this: Jotul 5602
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12/09/2018 08:03PM |
He'd get up in the morning, open a can of beans, put it on top of the woods stove and start the fire. Then he'd go back to sleep for a bit.
Maybe it's time to change your routine. ;)
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11/29/2018 10:27PM |
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04/29/2019 09:24PM |
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11/24/2018 01:57PM |
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11/24/2018 12:28AM |
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12/01/2018 10:41AM |
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11/25/2018 10:15AM |
nctry: "Only thing about anything not ul listed like a fisher or my kingsman is if your insurance would allow it. The guideline there is 3’ to combustibles, with a fire stop and no gap is two feet and a firestop (like I’m putting in a brick wall) with a 1” gap between the wall behind and it you can have it one foot away from the combustible wall. Many ul listed stoves have closer clearances built in. But the more you do to provide protection the safer you are and can feel leaving it burn at night or even while out hunting. That damper they put in the stovepipe between the stove and the chimney is about as bad for buildup as greener wood. Good hearth protection is another buggy. Was on a medical call where the guy had an Earth Stove. Absolutely nothing preventing a spark from landing on the wood floor. Scary! Don’t get me started on chimneys... haha."
Typed this while loading my stoves... haha!
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11/23/2018 11:24PM |
If I shut it down too much, it smokes. Lots of heat goes up the chimney. I am getting to the point where getting a more efficient stove outweighs the cooking part, which I don't do that much of anymore.
I have been looking at wood burning stoves that are in about the up to 2000 square ft , 70-80k btu range. They advertise "up to 6-8 hours burn time". Key words here are "up to"
Something like this
The area I will be heating is only about 800 SF but has no floor insulation and is a bit drafty. I have a ceiling fan that does a good job moving the air.
My questions... Can you really get eight hours of burn time or do you really have to load them up to do that? I am afraid that a loaded up 2000 SF capacity stove might get it too hot depending on the outside temp.
Is there anything else I should be concerned about in picking a stove? Safety is a big concern. I am guessing I will be just fine, but would like opinions for those who have heated with this type stove.
I will miss the old cook stove and wish I had room for both. I won't miss coming back from a cold hunt to a cold cabin.
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11/26/2018 05:20AM |
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11/29/2018 10:47AM |
Smoke is basically creosote... I can’t remember and it might vary a little, but smoke is creosote in a gas form. I hope I’m saying that right. When it cools to around 220 degrees or less, it solidifies into the awful tar wood burners hate. Slowing the flow using a damper or heat exchanger in the stove pipe will usually cause this. Burning wet wood or wood with a lot of pitch, like pine, has a denser smoke where it isn’t able to turn to the gas form all the way. If you can leave drafts wide open and burn it hard, you can minimize the creosote buildup, but you burn a ton more wood.
I came back to this thread as yesterday I went into the woods as it’s no longer deer season, and not a lot of snow. I’ve been burning off a load of ash I had delivered a couple years ago and it just didn’t seem that hot. So I went out in my secret oak spot and there was a ton of down ready to burn oak. Some a little past ready.
I tossed in a couple sticks of dry stuff and boy, I could feel the difference. Now I’m back to opening my door to control the heat. Haha. Now the outside temp is creeping above 20 with little wind and good oak just burns so much hotter.
So Larry, yes... now stoves are made to be controlled by the combustion air (air intake) and you kinda have to know your stove, your wood and how they react. You choke it too much and you get buildup and you may lose your fire. Too much air and you just burn a lot of wood and may get kinda warm, but your chimney stays pretty clean.
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11/24/2018 08:12AM |
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11/24/2018 08:31AM |
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11/29/2018 01:21PM |
Nctry makes a very good point that is very worth taking note of and that is the temperature at which creosote will condense out of smoke. Typically in a chimney/flue, the smoke continues as a gas until it reaches that point where it strikes or passes a surface that is below that condensation temperature. Then it deposits tiny specs of creosote that build up over time.
In a cold flue, this can happen anywhere along the entire length. Once the fire gets established this point is moved up to and sometimes out of the flue. Most frequently, the condensation spot becomes the place where the flue clears the structure and is exposed directly to the cold outside temperatures. If the fire is hot enough and the gas remains above 220 degrees, creosote does not condense out of the smoke onto the sides of your flue.
In an effort to make wood stoves more efficient (i.e. produce the most heat that is possible while burning as little wood as possible) they have provided mechanisms (dampers) to throttle back the speed of the fire. This makes it possible for users to get the maximum BTU's out of the wood that is burnt.
That is all well and good as we like to be efficient with our wood. However, by dampering down the speed of the fire, we essentially cool the smoke(gas) that leaves the fire. The fire lasts longer that way. The downside is that it creates greater opportunity for the smoke to hit the point where it can condense as creosote on the sides of the chimney. That also creates greater opportunity for chimney fires. For efficient wood stoves / fires, frequent cleaning is critical. I've even seen chimneys that get nearly 100% choked shut by creosote (coke) buildup.
I have two wood stoves in my current house. One is a furnace-type in the basement. The other is a fireplace insert in my living room. I have adopted the mindset that I keep the intake dampers pretty much open. This does mean that I have to re-stock the fire more often and it usually means that most of the coals are gone by morning. Sometimes I have to start from scratch in the morning with a new fire. Sometimes, I have enough coals that will start kindling.
By keeping a hotter fire, I am able to keep my chimney much cleaner than I could if I was being totally efficient with my wood consumption. I feel that the peace of mind of knowing that I have a clean flue offsets the fact that I burn more wood each winter than I might need to. (It also gives me more reason to cut, split and stack more wood each year which is one of my most favorite things to do.)
Again, this is my two cents. I sometimes have to laugh at myself at how obsessed with firewood, wood burning and enjoying fires I must appear to others. I always look forward to the first cool evenings when "a fire will feel good tonight!"
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11/29/2018 02:56PM |
I really think you should consider insulating if you are on a budget. That way you can turn down the air flow to make it last a little longer then the cabin will also retain the heat for longer. You could probably do a pretty good job of it if you sprayed foam insulation under the floor. Insulation is cheaper than upgrading the stove and works really well.
Is your stove sealed? We never worry about the fire getting smoky because the smoke only goes out the chimney. When you crack the door it sucks air from the room too so no smoke should enter the room if you open it slowly. The other reason we aren't worried about the smoke is because we do not burn any wood with resin unless it is outside in the fire pit.
I like the idea one person said about keeping the stove and getting a pellet burner too. Get a high efficiency fireplace and make it an add on to an outside wall. It would take no extra room inside and if you do the addition yourself it should be fairly reasonable for price. I know the fire places can be expensive but they can be pretty reasonable if you shop around, I think my dad got his for around 400. If you add a blower then you can really pump out the heat.
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11/25/2018 03:22PM |
Type of intake control will determine how even the heat output is over the burn cycle. My Defiant uses a bi-metal coil control spring and will close and open the air intake flap to keep the stove temp the same during the burn cycle. My Jotul has a manual control for the air intake and will burn hotter at some time in the cycle. This is because a bed of red coals needs less oxygen than fresh wood to produce the same BTU's.
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11/24/2018 10:22AM |
I burn oak and ash. Just b4 i go to bed i put 4 to 5 pieces into the stove and when i wake up in the morning there is a nice bed of coals.
Drolet woodstove
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04/29/2019 08:10PM |
Anyhow, I got it up to the cabin this weekend and had enough stove pipe to get it installed. It seemed to hold the fire well but didn't stoke it up too much as I need a new thimble and replace some of the older stovepipe. Thanks for the help.
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12/10/2018 07:47AM |
nooneuno: "Most of the stoves talked about here are the pre EPA models, in 2015 the EPA passed a rule that limits the particulates that are allowed to be discharged through the smoke of a wood burner. Many of the new models come with a lot of complaints regarding lower burn times. When I picked up my most recent stove I decided to go the craigslist route to find an older one made before the 2015 ban. I ended up with a Pacific Energy Vista for $300 that someone had installed for the y2k scare that had only been test burned one time then removed."
EPA rules for wood burning stoves...... you have to be kidding............I wonder what there rules are in reguards to the massive wild fires we have had to deal with...?
dr bob
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12/02/2018 12:53PM |
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11/30/2018 02:16PM |