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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Civility
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| Author | Message Text | ||
| Jackfish |
nofish: "I would say your assessment pretty accurately describes what the political forum was, but we're hoping to get things on a better path toward more constructive and respectful discussions. " Speaking as a BWCA.com member, not a Mod... It will never happen. For a few days? Maybe. But then it will be right back to the same vulgar vitriol again. I say delete the Political Forum and leave that crap for Facebook. |
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| missmolly |
Jackfish: "nofish: "I would say your assessment pretty accurately describes what the political forum was, but we're hoping to get things on a better path toward more constructive and respectful discussions. " I like Pete. I trust Pete. Therefore, I am quitting the Political Forum. |
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| nofish |
Jackfish: "nofish: "I would say your assessment pretty accurately describes what the political forum was, but we're hoping to get things on a better path toward more constructive and respectful discussions. " You might be right but its worth a try. If we can't keep it productive then I will suggest the plug be pulled. The issue with the political forum is that is has really never been moderated. It was an absolute free for all with no rules or accountability regardless of what was said or how users acted. That won't be the case going forward. Geofisher came up with a great idea of a "dollar jar". If you name call or act offensively, we'll remind the user to put a dollar in the jar (actually it will be a small donation back to the site). Of course we have no way to enforce payment but it should act as a standing reminder to behave up to the standards expected on the rest of the BWCA.com site. If things continue and lessons aren't learned users will be removed from the group. If even after all of that we have continual issues, then we'll pull the plug. |
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| Savage Voyageur |
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| Jackfish |
scat: "A hunger strike might carry more weight, if you’ll pardon the oxymoron." A hunger strike??? BY ME??? Ain't gonna happen. I enjoy eating too much. LOL |
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| Jackfish |
missmolly: "I like Pete. I trust Pete. Therefore, I am quitting the Political Forum. " That wasn't my intent, but thanks for the kind words, Katie. |
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| drnatus |
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| Savage Voyageur |
I had to quit the political forum for just this reason. Civility and politics do not play together in there. |
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| nofish |
Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. Hopefully you'll be able to return now. We're making an active effort to get things cleaned up in there. |
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| ellahallely |
Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. I have looked in there. I turned and ran! |
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| missmolly |
nofish: "ellahallely: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. Nah, you've got a good noggin. Good heart too. |
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| HowardSprague |
Jackfish: "nofish: "I would say your assessment pretty accurately describes what the political forum was, but we're hoping to get things on a better path toward more constructive and respectful discussions. " While I understand that viewpoint, JF, sometimes having a civil debate on a political topic here on this site is easier, more comfortable, safer, and more likely to remain civil than on FB. God knows I throw opinions out there on facebook more than I should, but... Here, it's a relative handful of people compared with when you have a few hundred friends on FB and everyone has those several friends out there who you just know will blow up a discussion way beyond what you intended...yeah, things blew up here too, but I'd guess 9 of 10x it involved one guy. I hate when good discussions get zapped, but I guess that forum needed more moderation than all the other forums here combined. Should be on a good path now. |
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| ozarkpaddler |
Pinetree: "ellahallely: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. I CONCUR! |
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| Soledad |
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| ghamer |
ellahallely: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. I also checked out the politcal forum a few days ago... decided it wasn't for me and left without commenting. |
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| Big Tent |
ellahallely: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. I had to take shower. |
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| mgraber |
Big Tent: "ellahallely: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. +1 |
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| billconner |
drnatus: "This truly is the best message board on the internet. Thanks to Adam, moderators and fellow posters!!! Let's keep it civil! " +1... I wonder what was deleted. |
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| Savage Voyageur |
nofish: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. I had no idea what Adam was referring to, but I guessed correctly. I do check in to that forum from time to time just to see if it’s changed. I just looked and read Adams post. Thanks for stepping forward on this, nofish. Just a suggestion for you. If you take over as moderator of this forum, you need to set ground rules as a pin on the top. And those that post should read agree to your rules on a separate thread. If the keyboard warriors/political pundits can’t agree, give them the hook. Good luck. |
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| Pinetree |
ellahallely: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. Smart Move. |
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| jhb8426 |
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| ellahallely |
Soledad: ""I see you deleted your post. I was trying to think of a way to answer your question without upsetting anyone. No your post hating on the President in the historic video thread didn't cause this. Quit frankly wiser heads prevailed and no one took your bait. If you want to hate on people maybe you should join the political forum. I get the feeling no wants that shit in this forum. |
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| scat |
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| billconner |
scat: "There is a political forum? Huh..." I have heard reports if such nonsense and foolishness, but have never even looked to confirm it's existence. A political forum at BWCA.com seems like a motor boat on Insula. |
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| missmolly |
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| TomT |
jhb8426: "I learned long ago to avoid "political/opinion forums". Mostly bad experiences." Yeah, it's amazing how people "Tribal up" and close off to any real listening. What troubles me is there doesn't seem to be room for moderates. You get branded as either far left or far right. We are definitely in a Civil Cold War at this time in history. |
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| nofish |
TomT: "jhb8426: "I learned long ago to avoid "political/opinion forums". Mostly bad experiences." I would say your assessment pretty accurately describes what the political forum was, but we're hoping to get things on a better path toward more constructive and respectful discussions. |
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| missmolly |
nofish: "TomT: "jhb8426: "I learned long ago to avoid "political/opinion forums". Mostly bad experiences." With nofish leading the way, I hope! |
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| ZaraSp00k |
It is an accepted form of freedom of expression by the courts and politicians, which started with my generation, the baby boomers. MLK promoted the civil rights movement by non- violence, not too surprising given he was a Christian preacher, another take on the New Testament "turn the other cheek". But others saw that getting the medias attention by any means necessary to give a soap box to stand on was more important. Consequently we are where we are at because politicians and the courts protect "free speech" even if it infringes on somebody else's rights. Like somebody legally using the interstate system not being able to because somebody else is exercising their "right to free speech". Or somebody attending a fundraiser getting spit on by somebody "exercising their right to free speech". Since people are given the right to behave badly by politiciansa, the media, and the courts, it should come as no surprise people act in an uncivil manner at times, it is accepted in our society. Good luck to the admin of the private political forum. When I first saw it I said to myself "no thanks" and although have considered at times thankfully I've never even looked at it. My take is the admin will have the same problem every admin of a political forum will have, separating his own political beliefs from the job of admin. IOW, he will come down harder on those of an opposite viewpoint which will in turn only make the opposition more uncivil. Have fun!! |
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| BearBurrito |
ghamer: "ellahallely: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. Me as well. I would have a hard time keeping my mouth shut, so I decided to not give myself the chance. |
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| Bushpilot |
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| QueticoMike |
ellahallely: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. I still don't know where this forum is located, of course I haven't looked either. Not sure why there is even a forum such as that? Oh well, I will just stay in the Fishing Forum. I rarely come over to the Listening Point, I think I will go back to fishing now :) |
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| jcavenagh |
I am a bit of a policy wonk by avocation and a lawyer by trade. So research and reporting is something that I enjoy. I have posted in the political forum and I know it can be done with civility. Unfortunately, my most frequent post in the political forum has been: "Argumentum ad hominem never moves the debate forward." |
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| missmolly |
SourisMan: "missmolly: "Pinetree: "jcavenagh: "Good idea. I hope everyone would approach posting online as you would a face to face talk." You are welcome! |
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| SourisMan |
missmolly: "Pinetree: "jcavenagh: "Good idea. I hope everyone would approach posting online as you would a face to face talk." Now, THAT made me smile. Thanks mm |
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| butthead |
Uh pardon, me but if you started the forum aren't you responsible for it's moderation. I started a few myself and understood from the first I had the power and there-by the responsibility to moderate as the Group Leader. If the originator abandoned the forum, again my apologies, but the blame of lack of control falls there. butthead PS; I try to stay away from topics I do not like or result in black vs white discussions but have looked when boredom was looking for a few extra laughs. This topic included. Got my laugh and now will leave it alone. bh |
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| nofish |
Blatz: "Savage Voyageur: "Just a suggestion from someone who was a former member of that forum. Nofish,please change the name of the forum to Politics, not Politics and the BWCA. There is nothing there that has to do with the BWCA, it’s all politics. If it’s about the BWCA it should be in the Listening Point-General Forum. I just looked at the first 4 pages quickly, about 100 threads and none of them had to do with the BWCA. So change the name of the entire forum to Politics. " I'm not sure why so much call to eliminate the private political forum. You have to request to join it so you have to make an active decision for yourself to look for it, request to join, and then to post. If its not your thing its very easy to avoid, actually easier to avoid than to find it. There are members of the site that do enjoy some political debate so I see no harm in having a place for them to do so that is away from the main forum. If our renewed attempts to moderate it fail then we can look to pull the plug but for now I don't see the harm in letting it exist for now. |
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| adam |
We allowed that forum to be created with the mindset that it would keep the political crap off the public forums. It might work or it could have the opposite effect, but lets see what new moderation will do, and also a spirit of civility. I was going to post a link to the civility page on wikipedia, but ended up stumbling upon the incorporation of civility into the wikipedia code of conduct. which is even more useful. Civility a pillar of Wikipedia's code of conduct And for those that need a refresher or maybe a first lesson. Here is the definition of Civility. As a poster said earlier in this thread. This country is struggling to maintain civility. |
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| Papa09 |
I would have posted this in the private forum but I don't have the time to get accepted into it nor do I care to. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts. JC |
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| scat |
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| nofish |
Savage Voyageur: "Just a suggestion from someone who was a former member of that forum. Nofish,please change the name of the forum to Politics, not Politics and the BWCA. There is nothing there that has to do with the BWCA, it’s all politics. If it’s about the BWCA it should be in the Listening Point-General Forum. I just looked at the first 4 pages quickly, about 100 threads and none of them had to do with the BWCA. So change the name of the entire forum to Politics. " We're working on sorting out some new ground rules for the forum. Once those are in place I may change the name and description to better reflect the forum and what the users of the forum want to see going forward. Now that I'm actually looking at these things the forum appears to have been created in a bit of haste. No rules were ever established and not direction was ever set. It appears to have been created as a place to have a free for all brawl away from the main Listening Point. That won't be the case any more. Different topics can be discussed that don't fit on the Listening Point but the free for all days are gone. |
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| Blatz |
Savage Voyageur: "Just a suggestion from someone who was a former member of that forum. Nofish,please change the name of the forum to Politics, not Politics and the BWCA. There is nothing there that has to do with the BWCA, it’s all politics. If it’s about the BWCA it should be in the Listening Point-General Forum. I just looked at the first 4 pages quickly, about 100 threads and none of them had to do with the BWCA. So change the name of the entire forum to Politics. " Or just eliminate it all together. There's plenty of other places on the World Wide Web where people can express their political views. If the Politics forum was created to keep the Listening Point forum from getting polluted than I get that. But the Listening Point is visited often, so monitoring it shouldn't be difficult. People have to realize it's a privilege not a right to post on this message board. So if your post gets taken down because it doesn't fit in, go somewhere else. |
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| nofish |
butthead: ""The issue with the political forum is that is has really never been moderated." I didn't start the forum so never had any power to do anything. The person who did start the forum doesn't appear to have been active on the site for several years now and he was the only one with power to moderate so it has effectively been unmoderated for years. As of today I'm now listed as the owner so going forward I will be moderating it. |
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| Blatz |
nofish: "True you do have the option of joining the Political group or not. But here we are being called on to be civil on a non political forum because some people can't play nice. But I ask myself why is it even there when someone can go to thousands of other political sites and have at it. There's just too much of risk of things getting nasty very fast, especially in todays climate. Obviously the main purpose of this site is for the BWCA and other outdoor activities that can relate to theBlatz: "Savage Voyageur: "Just a suggestion from someone who was a former member of that forum. Nofish,please change the name of the forum to Politics, not Politics and the BWCA. There is nothing there that has to do with the BWCA, it’s all politics. If it’s about the BWCA it should be in the Listening Point-General Forum. I just looked at the first 4 pages quickly, about 100 threads and none of them had to do with the BWCA. So change the name of the entire forum to Politics. " BWCA. I do realize that politics can be part of BW issues, but that seems to go to the Listening Point forum in many cases. Like someone pointed out, a high percentage of the political "discussions" have nothing to do with the BW. Yes there are other forums that have nothing to do with the BW like the Music forum. But I don't see nastiness happening over which 70s classic rock band is the best, even though we all have very strong opinions on that. Politics is a powder keg right now and moderating it seems like it would be a big pain in the ass |
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| adam |
We allowed this to be created with the mindset that it would keep the political crap off the public forums. It work or it could have the opposite effect, but lets see what new moderation will do, and also a spirit of civility. I was going to post a link to the civility page on wikipedia, but ended up stumbling upon the incorporation of civility into the wikipedia code of conduct. which is even more useful. Civility a pillar of Wikipedia's code of conduct |
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| butthead |
butthead |
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| nooneuno |
missmolly: "Jackfish: "nofish: "I would say your assessment pretty accurately describes what the political forum was, but we're hoping to get things on a better path toward more constructive and respectful discussions. " I have dropped it as well, too much hatin going on.... |
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| nofish |
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| RetiredDave |
I want to add, however, I truly enjoy this community! Dave |
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| bobbernumber3 |
missmolly: "For all who feel dirtied by dipping a toe into the political forum, there are good people there, paddlers all. " Maybe they are. Maybe they aren't. We'll have to wait and see. Why is there a political forum on bwca.com? Would administrators add one if it was not already there? |
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| overthehill |
Politics is one thing. BWCA is another. This site bears its name. I like visiting the BWCA. It washes my soul of trash. I think we all need a trip there soon. |
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| adam |
Civility is a requirement to participate on this site regardless of if it is a public or private forum. |
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| Pinetree |
jcavenagh: "Good idea. I hope everyone would approach posting online as you would a face to face talk." Agree. Lets keep our happy faces on. |
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| HowardSprague |
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| missmolly |
Pinetree: "jcavenagh: "Good idea. I hope everyone would approach posting online as you would a face to face talk." Hard water is gonna warm up, Put on a happy face; Brush snow off your canoe and cheer up, Put on a happy face. Take off the gloomy mask of winter, It's not your style You'll look so good that you'll be glad Ya' decide to smile! Pick out a pretty paddle, Stick out that noble chin; Wipe off that "full of doubt" look, Winter's gonna end! And spread sunshine all over the place, Just put on a happy face! |
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| nofish |
ellahallely: "Savage Voyageur: "Thanks for the reminder to us all Adam. Clearly you're a lot smarter than I am. |
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| jcavenagh |
I hope everyone would approach posting online as you would a face to face talk. |